SoB Seraphim Pistols Q

[JMichael]

The new WD Sisters codex p99:
Seraphim Pistols state that they may fire both pistols (as most seraphim are armed with 2 pistols) in the shooting phase. But if they do, they can fire no other weapon that turn.

I don't quite understand. Does this mean they don't 'shoot' their pistols in the assault phase, and thus do not receive the +1A for having 2 pistols?

[Archon Charybdis]

I don't quite understand. Does this mean they don't 'shoot' their pistols in the assault phase, and thus do not receive the +1A for having 2 pistols?

You never shoot your weapons in the assault phase. A pistol (regardless of stats) simply counts as an extra close combat weapon in the assault phase. Regardless of whether they fired two pistols or not, when it comes time for the assault phase the Seraphim have two close combat weapons, ergo +1 attack.

[memnarch_129]

The reason that Cruddace wrote that rule the way he did is because of the way the pistols worked in the original C:WH and the way pistols changed from 4th to 5th edition. Pistols used to get either 1 shot at full range (12 inches) or 2 shots at half (6 inches) just like an Rapid fire weapon, but it was an assault weapon. When 5th edition rolled around pistols went to a simple assault 1 profile.
Now since a model can only fire one weapon per turn a model with 2 pistols only get 1 shot. With the rule on Pg.99 the Seraphim not only get back there 2 shots per turn but some are actually better than the old rule. The old Seraphim had to be at 6 inches to get its 2 shots with a bolt pistol. Now they get the 2 shots at the pistols full 12 inch range.

[gcsmith]

I believe the may shoot no other weapon that turn is say if your leader has 2 bolt pistols and a plasma pistol? or can take some other shooting wargear.

[Antenor]

The reason that Cruddace wrote that rule the way he did is because of the way the pistols worked in the original C:WH and the way pistols changed from 4th to 5th edition. Pistols used to get either 1 shot at full range (12 inches) or 2 shots at half (6 inches) just like an Rapid fire weapon, but it was an assault weapon. When 5th edition rolled around pistols went to a simple assault 1 profile.
Now since a model can only fire one weapon per turn a model with 2 pistols only get 1 shot. With the rule on Pg.99 the Seraphim not only get back there 2 shots per turn but some are actually better than the old rule. The old Seraphim had to be at 6 inches to get its 2 shots with a bolt pistol. Now they get the 2 shots at the pistols full 12 inch range.

Erm, pistols got a 2nd shot if they stayed still, and this was up to there normal max range (ie 12"). Nowhere was it said that pistols got a 2nd shot if they were at half range, infact rapid fire weapons didn't get a shot at half range either they got theres at 12" still.

[Necron2.0]

Additionally, in the original codex a Seraphim's single pistol attack always counted as twin-linked, so the difference between new and old isn't quite as straight forward as simply two versus one.

Personally, I took the "they can fire no other weapon" comment as something of a typo.

[Tynskel]

this is probably a left over from play testing. They may have had a way to get a third weapon earlier.


pure speculation.

[thecactusman17]

The rule probably means that at some previous point, the squad leader could take an extra weapon. Also, when you look at it from a rules perspective, they are giving you explicit permission to fire two separate weapons in the shooting phase, which has always been a fairly big no-no in 40k, so it makes sense that they would put a limitation on it.

[chicop76]

The rule is simple. If you have two pistols you may fire both pistols, but if like say:
1. Celestine is added to the squad she will not be able to fire with the ardent blade because you choosed to fire both pistols
2. If your veteran takes like a power sword and plasma pistol you won't be able to fire the plasma pistol.

If you want everyone in the Seraphim unit to fire then you can only fire once, but if everyone fires with 2 pistols each model that have two pistol can fire.

That's why the hand flamers is better than people think. If you take both upgrades that is 4 flame templates that can possibly re roll to wound on top of 16 bolt pistol shots. You can easily dish out 20-60 wounds with this unit.

[thecactusman17]

Chicop, the rule is based on the firing model., as all shooting rules are. If the regular Seraphim choose to fire their pistols, it won't affect what Celestine or a model with a Plasma Pistol is allowed to fire. If those models choose dual pistols, then they won't be allowed to fire extra weapons.

[DarkLink]

Right, both those points are wrong. Celestine doesn't even have the Seraphim Pistol rule, she is completely unaffected by it. And if you read the rule, nowhere does it say that you must fire two bolt pistols always, nor does it say that if anyone shoots two bolt pistols, everyone must. It's a purely model by model basis.

So, Celestine can fire her heavy flamer, and the Veteran may always fire her plasma pistol.

Edit: in fact, the 'cannot fire any other weapons' is a pretty much irrelevant rule. Seraphim, including the veteran, can only have a max of two pistols so there isn't a third weapon for them to fire.

[Wildeybeast]

Up to two seraphim may replace their pistols with hand flamers. As these are not pistols, they do not benefit from the 'seraphim pistols' rule and so only one flamer shot may be taken, despite them having two hand flamers. If I understand correctly, a superior armed with a bolt pistol and plasma psitol may fire both as they are both pistols. Likewise a sister armed with two inferno pistols may fire both.

[DarkLink]

Actually, the rule doesn't specify what type of pistol may be fired, only that the Seraphim may fire two pistols. Thus a veteran with plasma pistol and a bolt pistol can shoot both.

[Wildeybeast]

Actually, the rule doesn't specify what type of pistol may be fired, only that the Seraphim may fire two pistols. Thus a veteran with plasma pistol and a bolt pistol can shoot both.

Good, thanks for confirming what I said. So the rule only actually matters for sisters armed with hand flamers, where they may only fire one.

[dvs1]

Up to two seraphim may replace their pistols with hand flamers. As these are not pistols, they do not benefit from the 'seraphim pistols' rule and so only one flamer shot may be taken, despite them having two hand flamers. If I understand correctly, a superior armed with a bolt pistol and plasma psitol may fire both as they are both pistols. Likewise a sister armed with two inferno pistols may fire both.

Huh? Hand flamers count as pistols as per the weapon summary reference page. Yes you can shoot them both.

[thecactusman17]

Well, I guess that two separate flamers is actually sort of cool. It took me a bit of rationalizing how it works from a wounds standpoint, but even at S3 we are talking about twice the wounds. I can imagine that this is actually a huge help vs. spread out groups of enemies who are expecting the standard flamer attack.

Twin Inferno pistols, if they are still on offer, but be pure madness.

[Wildeybeast]

Huh? Hand flamers count as pistols as per the weapon summary reference page. Yes you can shoot them both.

So they do, my mistake. So they only way a Seraphim cannot fire twice is if they have one pistol and a cc weapon, as the rule specifies they must be armed with two pistols. Looks like Seraphim are pretty bad *** then.

[Root]

You get to fire two pistols, whether they be bolt, inferno, or hand flamer. Add Celestine and pass your Faith roll and you will nuke squads. So far I've managed 21 wounds vs a Chaos Marine squad and 27 vs an ork mob. Seraphim rock.