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Hades Alpha
09-07-2009, 07:54 AM
In your opinion, which faction is the greatess threat to the Imperium?

I'm not too familliar with the background of warhammer 40k so I'd like to have arguments, exemples and facts to support your choice.

Cheers.

gwensdad
09-07-2009, 08:30 AM
Eldar just want their "old stuff" back, so if ever that happened, they'd stop fighting the Imperium-therefore not a threat.

The Tau and the Orks are kinda "two sides of the same coin." One is selfish and self-serving and the other is the Orks (*rimshot*) but both could be manipulated into doing the Imperium's bidding.

The chaos powers are always out to eat the souls of everyone in the Imperium but....

Should the Tyranid or the Necrons be too successful, everything in the galaxy goes away. This would be a "bad thing" for everyone and could lead to everyone focusing their attention on defeating these two threats. I would rate the Necrons as slightly more of a threat because they could pop up anywhere.

AirHorse
09-07-2009, 08:31 AM
Orks are gonna win tbh!! The tyranids might be all consuming but the orks will beat the pants out of them if you ask me, they just love to fight too much!! The chaos gods are gonna get their ***** kicked when the tyranids take on the orks properly since theres gonna be such a massive waaagh!! gork and mork are gonna be truely gargantuan beings!!

Aldramelech
09-07-2009, 09:00 AM
Gota be Nids.

Sitnam
09-07-2009, 11:59 AM
I think the Eldar and the Tau have a love/hate relationship with the Imperium. Both dont pose serious threats to the Imperium as a whole, just some of the border planets and maiden worlds the Imperials hold. Many Inquisitors, albeit radical ones, have had working relationships with the Eldar. I remember some fluff about Eldar assiting a loyalist legion during the heresy (Don't quote me on that however). And the Tau may be a nuisance at times, but both Terra and T'au are more ocnerned with Orks and Tyranids them each other.

The Dark Eldar, while troublesome, arent too terribly potent. Their goal is slaves and sacrifices, not conquest.

Chaos has quite enough potential to destroy the Imperium. But I think, do to the stigma of the Horus Heresy, the Imperium would do anything not to come so near the brink as they were during the Heresy.

The Tyranids and Necrons, due to their desire to simply wipe out everything, seem to have the best chance of destroying the galaxy. However, the I believe the Orks prevent that from happening. Orks thrive on war. They thrive from a good scrap. If Necron tombworlds start awakening and Tyranid Hivefleets start appearing, any Ork worth his weight will join a Waaagh! against them. They may not beat the Necrons or Tyranids ourright, but the Orks ability to drag their enemies in a war of attrition in unsurpassed. I mean, one Ork warboss was crazy enough to launch a Waaagh! in the Eye of Terror just for a good fight, and he even beat up a few Daemon worlds.

I would also like to note that I do not belive the Necrons would ever win because of the weakness of the C'tan. Their weakness to the warp is a glaring one, and with the warp being so commonplace in the Milky Way galaxy I don't see how they could not run into it sooner or later.

Inquisitor Soren
09-07-2009, 01:35 PM
Greatest threat, oh 'Nids by far, will they win though, that is the one-million dollar question you gotta ask, there is a lot of argument on that, I personally think if Wazdaka ever truly united the orks they would win hands down over nearly anything other than maybe Terra itself. (Would be an awesome fight though...)

The C'tan will ultimately be destroyed, as Sitnam said their glaring weakness to the warp is going to be endgame for them. One well placed vortex grenade says goodbye to the poor old C'tan.

Eldar and Tau are really not a threat, the Eldar look like they intend to all drop dead to kill slaanesh, and the Tau, well lets be honest they move like ants ad can be squashed just the same if the Imperium wasn't using them as additional block against the 'Nids.

Chaos Marines? 13 Black Crusades later and still nothing, I think they need a change of command before we consider them a threat in any real sense.

But if I had to pick the two that would be the most dangerous, and one of which ain't on your list though chaos may count, is Chaos Daemons and 'Nids.

As long as the races in the universe exist the Chaos Daemons will as well, in some form or another and will always be locked in an eternal war with the human race, and any races humanity overlooks when crushing the larger threats.

Will humanity survive? Eh, probably but say goodbye to a large portion the Imperium. (Big lose?)

Lord Anubis
09-07-2009, 02:09 PM
I've always been puzzled by the train of thought "The Warp is the C'tan's greatest weakness." It's stated very clearly they don't like it and they don't use it, but it doesn't then follow that the warp is their kryptonite.

By that logic, lasguns are the bane of Space Marines. Heck, I could be undone by a good-sized bag of brussel sprouts, and someone should go after my two diabetic friends with a donut gun. ;)

But I digress... :D

I'd probably go with Tyranids or Necrons, tipping in the favor of Necrons. Simply put, no one knows how much resources the Necrons have buried in asteroids or under dead worlds. The Tyranids and Necrons (and Orks) can all replenish/ rebuild their numbers at a more-or-less equal rate, but the Necrons could just flip a switch and suddenly reactivate a few million warriors. They're all somewhat equal forces, but I think there's a good chance the dead guys will just overwhelm with sheer, entrenched numbers in the end.

Sitnam
09-07-2009, 04:10 PM
I personally think if Wazdaka ever truly united the orks they would win hands down over nearly anything other than maybe Terra itself. (Would be an awesome fight though...)
I agree here, but the fact is it seems extremely unlikely they will ever unite. I remember reading a post one time stating that the Orks were like the Milky Ways immune system. Their job is to get rid of any big threat to the existence of life in the galaxy, and to prevent any factions from being too strong. Although the Imperium is plently strong, they have been fighting Orks for millennia and they cant wipe them out. In fact, even in battles Orks lose, they will still linger on the planet for years due to their spore reproduction mechanism. So Orks provide a constant threat, but not a overwhelming threat to the Imperium.

Aenir
09-07-2009, 04:24 PM
Id say necrons, as they are very dangerous and even the Tyranids, split their giant fleet into two halves when they came across some necrons (i think, cannot recall)

The weakness for the necrons is the fact that they take their time doing whatever they want to do, which allows other groups to do what they will

rsheridan5
09-07-2009, 04:54 PM
It seems to me that the nids are the worst threat, simply because of the extreme difficulty of beating a hive fleet. Without warning entire planets will become lifeless rocks... There is only so much of that the Imperium can handle.
The arguments about the Necrons are good, but they are not united... some groups are so badly damaged that only thier logistic arms are active, providing good sport to some Imperial planets as practice for real war on a "set your watch by it" regular basis. The fact that they are spread throughout the galaxy is thier fundamental weakness, considering what appears to be a complete lack of central command.
By far the nids grow more powerful with each destroyed world and require extreme measures (aka Inquisitor Kryptman's gene mutation weapons) to destroy.

TSINI
09-07-2009, 05:55 PM
none of the above

its obviously the MOLE PEOPLE!

gwensdad
09-07-2009, 06:43 PM
I'd almost like to change my answer to "The greatest threat to The Imperium is...The Imperium itself"

Mike X
09-07-2009, 06:43 PM
I must say Chaos, since it not only split the Imperium in two, but also indirectly caused the deaths or disappearances of every loyalist primarch. Plus, it's a threat from within and without.

Inquisitor Soren
09-07-2009, 11:07 PM
I agree here, but the fact is it seems extremely unlikely they will ever unite. I remember reading a post one time stating that the Orks were like the Milky Ways immune system. Their job is to get rid of any big threat to the existence of life in the galaxy, and to prevent any factions from being too strong. Although the Imperium is plently strong, they have been fighting Orks for millennia and they cant wipe them out. In fact, even in battles Orks lose, they will still linger on the planet for years due to their spore reproduction mechanism. So Orks provide a constant threat, but not a overwhelming threat to the Imperium.

True but stranger things have happened in the 40k 'verse, also Wazdaka has 'seen' the webway in his dreams, and where humans fail, orks generally succeed for the simple fact they are orks and if you throw enough orks at any problem it will fix it...probably...if the orks gained the webway they would be the greatest threat to anyone, suddenly the entire race can, in theory, pick up and brick any planet with a webway gate, and has a massive strike capability with the ship sized gates, can you imagine an entire ork army popping outta the webway and saying 'hello', it would be a speed freaks dream, and all orks follow the biggest toughest ork around, and the one who leads them to the most battles.

In a way you could view the orks as an immune system for the galaxy and if the Imperium ever fell I'd toss my hat into the ring with the orks, nothing like hiding behind a thick green wall of muscle, eh?

Now the 'nids are scary little critters though, there is a law in nature, sort of at least, a being which cannot support itself in its normal environment in a self-sustainable way without destroying the balance, or creating a new one at the very least, is not in its natural environment, which means the 'nids were probably, no more than likely, created by an outside force as a biological weapon, I personally like the idea of a crazed old one escaping the galaxy and being the hive-mind, and that happens to be the one I subscribe to.

The 'crons are only a real threat if we assume every 'cron is working for the C'tan, which honestly doesn't feel right to me, so if we assume they fight amongst themselves and are very vulnerable to the warp, they will destroy each other at least in part, hopefully, heck I'd say just flood the tomb worlds with a daemonic legion and let them have at it, sounds like a decent solution from my stand point, or just blow the world up, God knows kryptman has blown up enough worlds that no one will probably notice one or two more. (Even if there are thousands of tomb worlds.) I wonder if 'crons are EMP shielded...

If I had to pick one that would scare me if they were real it would still be the 'nids hands down, orks can be bartered with if your smart/tough enough and 'crons, well you've still got time to stop the 'crons plus they have a fairly easily exploited weakness, the warp.

(Yup, I'm a radical Inquisitor, my IG followers regularly are chased by 'crons, 'nids, and raven guard for their radical beliefs. We must know to much...)

Prometheus
09-08-2009, 02:02 AM
Although many of the factions have a strong claim to being the biggest threat the Tyranids win in the end. I mean think about it the Eldar could co-exist, Dark Eldar would keep the Imperium around as slaves, Orks just wanna fight, Chaos needs souls, Tau would incorporate the humans into thier empire, the Necrons want to harvest souls for the C'Tan, whereas the Tyranids want to eat everything. If the Tyranids had it thier way thier would be no life in the galaxy at all. Thats no humans, no space marines, no plants, no bugs nothing at all now thats a threat for ya.

Emperorsmercy
09-08-2009, 10:38 AM
I think Necrons are the greatest thyreat, and I* love watching Necrons adn Tyranids on the tabletop, and I personally think it's gonna end up with Necrons and Tyranids fighting constantly, the Necrons focusing on them while the others, most notably the Orks, come up and bash the winner.

Drew da Destroya
09-08-2009, 03:00 PM
From a Socialogical point of view, the Tau are a pretty big threat, as they can show the general citizenry of the Imperium that there is a better way than the day-to-day feudalism and slavery that currently exists. If the Greater Good were to catch on and spread across the Hive Worlds of the Imperium, it would be massively destabilizing.

From a Theological point of view, Chaos is the winner. Chaos shows that real gods do exist, and they're more than capable of destroying your life on a whim. Furthermore, they show that not even the greatest, most powerful heroes of mankind are capable of stopping, or even resisting, Chaos. When faced with the fact that your own god is just a dead guy, sitting in a chair, powering a lighthouse, it's easy to have a crisis of faith. Also, it's easy to see why Inquistors destroy entire planetary populations at the slightest hint of a Chaos infection.

of course, these two threats are nothing compared to the physical threat of the Bugs and Bots. Either the Bugs are going to eat everyone and leave the galaxy (leaving millions of angry Necron shaking their collective fists in rage at the tail end of the Hive Fleet), or the Necron are going to seal off the Warp (which would wreck the Tyranid) and kill everyone before going back to sleep and waiting for life to evolve again.

Sitnam
09-08-2009, 11:52 PM
True but stranger things have happened in the 40k 'verse, also Wazdaka has 'seen' the webway in his dreams, and where humans fail, orks generally succeed for the simple fact they are orks and if you throw enough orks at any problem it will fix it...probably...if the orks gained the webway they would be the greatest threat to anyone, suddenly the entire race can, in theory, pick up and brick any planet with a webway gate, and has a massive strike capability with the ship sized gates, can you imagine an entire ork army popping outta the webway and saying 'hello', it would be a speed freaks dream, and all orks follow the biggest toughest ork around, and the one who leads them to the most battles.

In a way you could view the orks as an immune system for the galaxy and if the Imperium ever fell I'd toss my hat into the ring with the orks, nothing like hiding behind a thick green wall of muscle, eh?
That is true. The Orks have some of the best potential, as you state, to take the Milky Way. I honestly believe the Necrons (not all of whom serve the same C'tan), and the Tyranids would be nowhere as threatening then if Warbosses like Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka became more common. The Imperial Guardhad 120 regiments of Armageddon Ash Waste Militia alone, not counting the other regiments. More then a dozen SM chapters sent elements to fight in the war. Sisters of Battle, Skitarii, even Arbites were all deployed to stop Thraka. Yet he was still able to make the world a stalemate battle, and the Imperium is using a great deal of resources to deal with one Waaagh! on one planet. Imagine several independent warbosses across the Milky Way galaxy launching simultaneous Armageddon-style Waaaghs!, unbenowest to each other. If one planet was alot, imagine the damage several Waaaghs! the size of Thraka's can do.

But the problem still remains: Orks just aren't united. While they can severely wound the Imperium, I think it'll take a warboss surpassing even Thraka's ability to even get close to taking Terra itself.


I personally like the idea of a crazed old one escaping the galaxy and being the hive-mind, and that happens to be the one I subscribe to.
The Old Ones did supposedly make the Orks and Eldar to serve their purposes against the Necrons. I would say Old One = Hive Mind is very probable.

Inquisitor Soren
09-09-2009, 01:40 PM
Well in all honesty you don't need to 'throat' Terra to kill the Imperium (And Terra), I don't even think the 'nids would bother with that, the gain for lose ratio would probably be to high. All one needs to do is control/destroy the Agri-worlds, an army marches on its stomach after all, and all the lasrounds in the universe won't feed you...well not unless your a cannibal when the food runs out...and in the end the Imperium would stave to death. A really grim future if you ask me, would be the 'nids consuming enough agri-worlds that the Imperium is forced to shrink on itself drastically, and do to this they are weakened even further. While orks may pollute a planet with spores, the nids simply leave barren blasted marbles in the deep of space, leaving trillions to die of starvation, crushing morale, and limiting operations, and sounding the death kneel of the human race, at this point the Tau and Eldar, assuming they survive, would be able to fill the power vaccum as would Chaos, Chaos probably doing it quicker than any other group, with their relams undoubtedly flooded with desperate new followers. The C'tan would suddenly be starving as well, the sudden decrease in population and being faced with a single unified foe would be a true blow for them, the 'nids would suddenly be fighting to preserve biomass as the C'tan attack in desperation as to not starve to death, or they would just turn to stars a practice they say they don't like 'cause it doesn't taste good...lol

If the orks still continue to survive during this it would probably be truly interesting for them, probably with orks growing to massive sizes to confront their new threats, developing new 'grubbins' in classic orky fashion.

Dang now I have to make a nid theory of where they came from thread...

RocketRollRebel
09-10-2009, 01:16 AM
Tyranids for sure. They are a fairly new race to the imperium who seems to be extremely efficient in taking out whole systems. They have a nice combination of subtle subversion (genestealer cults) and overwhelming brute force. Also it seems that every time the imperium manages to stop a hive fleet it comes at a ridiculously high cost which weakens them to other enemies.

Gamerfunk
09-10-2009, 10:10 AM
Nids or orks both are big forces and do nothing but fight everything they find. if all the necrons where to wake up at ones that could be a big prob, chaos just not as big a prob and tau and eldar are gole related and only fight when it's in there best intrest.

Lanparth
09-10-2009, 12:11 PM
I really hate to admit that Tyranids are the biggest threat to the Imperium, as I honestly dislike the army and find them fairly boring, but according to GW's hype, yes, they are the biggest threat.

I just personally hate the idea of "No matter how many times you beat them, they will eventually win!!!"

Kilrock
09-11-2009, 04:02 AM
I love the orks, bestest army der iz!! But Id reckon the Tyranids are the biggest threat. But as was said before, because of Orks love of violence and mass war, they are a hindrance to the Tyranids as well as anyone else for that matter. Pesky greenskins.....but you gotta love em!! :D Oh and.. ehem... WAAAAGHHH!!!

firestorm
09-11-2009, 06:33 AM
I voted Chaos because the Imperium is very well geared to fighting threats from outside itself (e.g. Xenos races), however mixed its attempts can be, whereas Chaos can spread insidiously and un-noticed until uprising begins.

Chaos feeds on all the weaknesses of humanity, creating fracture and schism at a time when unity is most needed.

The 'Nids or the Necrons or the Orks might deliver the killing blow to the Imperium, but it will have been Chaos that brought about the final undoing of the Imperium.

Chaos reinforces that Humanity's own worst enemy is humanity itself.

Krizz
01-27-2010, 01:49 PM
I have to go with the Necrons. It is strongly implied that they are extremely numerous AND each and every one of them is a powerful warrior fully capable of taking down even a space marine. They are also the most technologically advanced race in the entire Galaxy being able to perform such feats as fast and reliable interstellar travel, something the other races are incapable of (excluding the Eldar of course) and the last time they were all awake they managed to destroy the Old Ones (The creators of both the Orks, Humans and the Eldar).

So in the end. If they were all to wake up it would be game over for everyone.

Kieranator K82
01-27-2010, 03:39 PM
The Tyranids, scything talons down.
The three main hive fleets encountered thus far - Behemoth, Kraken and Leviathan - are believed by the Magos Biologis to be merely vanguard fleets. In other words, Behemoth, Kraken and Leviathan were Genestealers and the full hive is yet to come.
:eek:
All life in the galaxy is doomed. DOOMED!

Lord Azaghul
01-27-2010, 04:04 PM
gw

Duke
01-27-2010, 04:57 PM
IM going to have to agree that the biggest threat is Nids.

The reason is simple: IN any engagement the beiigest threat is the one you can't strike back at. All the other races can be directly attacked by the Imperium. But the Imperium cannot attack the Tyranid Homeworlds, so even if the can kill the hive fleets more will eventually come because the source isn't killed.

duke

Madness
01-27-2010, 05:50 PM
Well, killing a norn queen is a strike that the Tyranids can hardly ignore, just like losing a Craftworld or a homeworld for other factions.

sicarius2424
01-27-2010, 07:02 PM
i'm between orks chaos and tyranids truely but the orks have so much in fighting that they may never thank the emporer come together under one banner the tyranids are right now not that many in the imperium and besides they are a threat to every sentinent being in the galaxy. so i'm gunna say chaos because their one main purpose is to destroy or enslave the human race and they work form all the angles within and without the imperium and also i go along with what Mike X said too


so my votes for choas imperials players either hate them pity them or just a mixture of both (then again we feel the same way about all none imperium armies)

Melissia
01-28-2010, 09:38 AM
The Imperium is the greatest threat to the Imperium.

Col.Straken
01-28-2010, 10:15 AM
"Melissia: The Imperium is the greatest threat to the Imperium." (forgot to use the quote function)

I completely agree.

However I want to say the biggest threat to the galaxy (and the galaxy next door, where nids are from) is by far the Necrons. They are living machines, the Tyranids cannot absorb and evolve to fight them, and they can re-assemble themselves, which is just unbeatable, they have weapons which flay away armour and flesh with equal ease. Lastly they are accompanied by the greatest thing of all, they are accompanied by Gods, while chaos has gods helping and bestowing gifts upon their champions, the Necrons gods join the fight cloaked in Necrodermis, and if you destroy its body it just releases its escence and returns again. Chaos can destroy the Imperium and other races, Tyranids can ravage whole planets, but neither can corrupt or consume an unfeeling, unbiological race lead by Gods which can manifest themselves to fight by their sides.

Unfortunatly the Necron Codex does not represent this very well, mainly because they would be utterly unbeatable if they did, but still, greatest threat to the Imperium is the Imperium, outside threats bring it closer together as a fight for survival, human tendancy is to want to rule and will bring the Imperium crumbling down.

(sorry for the lack of full stops I got very carried away with my rant about Necrons, which I don't even play)

Col.Straken
01-28-2010, 10:32 AM
I forgot to add in, with nothing for the Tyranids to feed off (as necrons are non-biological) they would starve to death or be beaten, and with nothing for Chaos to corrupt and no emotions to feed off the warp would fall silent and calm and the Chaos Gods would dissipate.

david5th
01-28-2010, 11:27 AM
Necrons.

Imperium and rest of the galaxy slowy fights and loses an unwinnable war of attrtion against the tyranids. necrons pop up and wipe them out as the Tyranid no longer have any biomass to reproduce and without the rest of the galaxy and it's inhabitants there is no one left for chaos to corrupt.

Necrons achieve ultimate goal of wiping out all life from the galaxy.

Simples.;)

Melissia
01-28-2010, 11:33 AM
That makes the assumption that the Necrons are capable of wiping everyone out just that "simples". They are not capable of it really-- for one, the C'tan don't WANT them to wipe out all sentient life, and so the Necrons that do want to do that wil end up fighting the Necrons who are under the control or sway or whatever of the C'tan.

The C'tan feed off the souls of the sentient races of the galaxy, ever since the Necrontyr showed them a way to manifest into physical forms and stop feeding off of stars. No single force in the galaxy is truly united in purpose. Even the Tyranids fight eachother occasionally, and an enterprising third party can take advantage of the chaos of two hive splinters fighting.

david5th
01-28-2010, 12:02 PM
Oh well. I fought that the whole harvest thing was to wipe all life but it's been awhile since i ' read any necron fluff.

By the way, simples refers to Alexander the meercat.simples;).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTSCUYcp20A

:)

Thor
01-28-2010, 01:09 PM
OK, I had to share this with you all. On the above question my brother (a Necron player) answered: "Tyranids? Noooo.... It's you rolling a scatter die!!!" He probably refers to my Master of Ordinance and a rogue Sentinel with plasma cannon. :cool:

Subject Keyword
01-28-2010, 07:26 PM
The Imperium is the greatest threat to the Imperium.

Fully Agreed.

As far as "who will win in the end?"

Tau, Eldar (Dark and otherwise), and the Imperium will all be destroyed by infighting and the unnumbered threats of the galaxy. Chaos will be severely weakened as the the number of sentient entities to fuel the warp with emotion decreases until it is not even an issue.

So that leaves Nids, Necrons and Orks.
Orks are so damned hard to get rid of because their corpses release spores and the make new orks. Tyranids would eliminate this because they digest biomatter.

Necrons Vs. Nids?

Necrons do not produce Biomatter, and their weapons break organic matter down to its constituent Atoms. A level at which, I believe, Tyranids cannot interact with it.
Necrons seem the most likely.
And NO the C'Tan do not have a kryptonite in the Warp. It is clearly stated that they "have no presence in the warp." Nothing about it being their weakness. Buncha anti-Necron propaganda...

Bob la Frankie
01-28-2010, 09:40 PM
hmmm...

hard to say really.

It all depens on wht gw does with it.

Melissia
01-28-2010, 10:00 PM
Actually it is said that the only way to hurt the C'tan is thorugh psychic powers, and even that's difficult. It's not anti-necron propoganda. It's canon.

Unlighted
01-29-2010, 12:09 AM
Necrons are the greatest threat to the Imperium.

One of the major points in their favor is that they have a GOD at the very heart of the Imperium. When the Void Dragon fully awakes/escapes it will essentially gut the Imperium just by existing. The Mechanicus will be shattered by infighting as those who embrace the Void Dragon as their true Machine God battle the deluded fools who cling to the belief that the God Emperor is the Machine God. The Cult of the Dragon has been busy laying the groundwork for their revered C'tan so the Imperium will have to consider itself lucky if even 50% of the Mechanicus try to resist the new order.

The Necrons will deal a crippling blow to the Imperium by essentially removing most of it's technical support. The Space Marine chapters will still maintain most of their technical support, but the Imperium's vast legions of Imperial Guard will be rendered near impotent as their vehicles and equipment fail from lack of proper maintenance. The Imperium's planets will become isolated from support as most ships (some of the most complicated machines used by the Imperium) are rendered useless without proper Mechanicus maintenance.

The Mechanicus's jealous gaurding of technical skills will leave the Imperium in a new Dark Age once the Void Dragon seperates it from the ignorant Imperium.

Oh and quick note about what the C'tan actually feed on. C'tan feed on life energy (or tasteless star energy) and not souls.

Deamons like to hang around Mars because the Cult of the Dragon feeds the Void Dragon with the life energy of victims, but the souls are simply released much to the delight of the hungry deamons(deamons hang out in the Warp area of Mars and not physically on it).

Wow I went a lot longer than planned....

Subject Keyword
01-29-2010, 12:48 AM
Necrons are the greatest threat to the Imperium.

One of the major points in their favor is that they have a GOD at the very heart of the Imperium. When the Void Dragon fully awakes/escapes it will essentially gut the Imperium just by existing. The Mechanicus will be shattered by infighting as those who embrace the Void Dragon as their true Machine God battle the deluded fools who cling to the belief that the God Emperor is the Machine God. The Cult of the Dragon has been busy laying the groundwork for their revered C'tan so the Imperium will have to consider itself lucky if even 50% of the Mechanicus try to resist the new order.

The Necrons will deal a crippling blow to the Imperium by essentially removing most of it's technical support. The Space Marine chapters will still maintain most of their technical support, but the Imperium's vast legions of Imperial Guard will be rendered near impotent as their vehicles and equipment fail from lack of proper maintenance. The Imperium's planets will become isolated from support as most ships (some of the most complicated machines used by the Imperium) are rendered useless without proper Mechanicus maintenance.

The Mechanicus's jealous gaurding of technical skills will leave the Imperium in a new Dark Age once the Void Dragon seperates it from the ignorant Imperium.

Oh and quick note about what the C'tan actually feed on. C'tan feed on life energy (or tasteless star energy) and not souls.

Deamons like to hang around Mars because the Cult of the Dragon feeds the Void Dragon with the life energy of victims, but the souls are simply released much to the delight of the hungry deamons(deamons hang out in the Warp area of Mars and not physically on it).

Wow I went a lot longer than planned....
You, sir, rock. Thanks for actually reading Necron fluff properly.
Or reading it at all for that matter...

Actually it is said that the only way to hurt the C'tan is thorugh psychic powers, and even that's difficult. It's not anti-necron propoganda. It's canon.
You're right on your first point, but wrong on the second.
This is canon:
http://www.planetware.com/i/photo/kremlin-tsar-cannon-in-moscow-r243.jpg
Oh, sh*t...
That's with two "N"s, isn't it?

Madness
01-29-2010, 06:33 AM
Wasn't the void Dragon/Omnissiah just a never confirmed rumour?

Cryl
01-29-2010, 07:13 AM
It's never officially confirmed as such but incredibly strongly hinted at in Mechanicum and Titanicus iirc

Madness
01-29-2010, 07:56 AM
So it was strongly hinted by an in-universe character in a sort-of-expanded-universe material. Probable but not something I'll sign my will upon.

imperialsavant
01-29-2010, 09:13 PM
In your opinion, which faction is the greatess threat to the Imperium?

I'm not too familliar with the background of warhammer 40k so I'd like to have arguments, exemples and facts to support your choice.

Cheers.

My Vote goes to the 'nids as they are constantly evolving & gaining strength.
They also have the ability to come from within a Planet via Genestealer Cults so dont even need to attack a Planet frontally plus they are the Ultimate Horde Army. :eek:

Fellend
01-30-2010, 08:50 AM
The only thing that will kill the Imperium is the Imperium itself. Most likely due to the Golden Throne failing and the Emperor finally dying (Unless of course the Primarchs come back)

Which is why I vote for Chaos. Chaos can not be defeated because the Imperium sustains it. Human emotions empower Chaos, so if they all go into a blood frenzy and destroy the eye of terror. Well Khorne and Slaanesh is probably going to find new recruits amongs the victors.

The orks while a huge threat if they should ever unite, simply won't unite it's to much fun fighting each other. And even if several warbosses like Gazghul Thraka came along, they'd probably end up fighting each other to see who is da biggest and da baddest.

Tyranids. Yep huge threat assuming the fleets so far are vanguard organisms. That is after all only an assumption. Not to mention that If they ever became a sufficient threat. Pretty much everyone would unite against them, and while they could destroy the Imperium I don't think they could take on both the orc, the necrons and the eldar at the same time. (And chaos. after all, tyranids make lousy followers)

Tau: Just laughable, the only reason they haven't been wiped off is because no one has bothered yet. Every time a space marine crusade is formed they lose half of their planets. But then the 'nids come along and distract everyone.

Eldar: Don't actually think they would want to destroy the Imperium.

Necrons: Kind of.... weak really. Sure if they all united they might be a threat. But so far they come in small numbers, get beaten and then come back a couple of years later to repeat it. And the fact that the gods of the necron walk amongst their followers means that they can be killed. Unlike Chaos gods who are more of an idea than a physical being. Hell most of the C'tan have already been killed. And if they are weak against the warp. I highely doubt they would last very long under the direct gaze of the Emperor (or the Chaos gods). Once leaderless the necrons are a bunch of metalic weaklings walking behind a big metalic box, who's tactical and strategic thinking lies somewhere between the powers of a commandore 64 and a lump of cheese.

Melissia
01-30-2010, 09:42 AM
Chaos, however, cannot truly win because that would destroy chaos-- for chaos thrives on there being humans and therefor human emotions. And even then?

If the Orks win, Chaos is in a bad way, anyway, cause Orks are one of the most naturally resistant races in the galaxy :P

Warfare
01-30-2010, 01:36 PM
As it stands:
-Orks are probably the biggest threat short term but I don't think that they would ever really annihilate the Imperium.
-Chaos is generally an annoyance and their threat is dictated more by if they could recreate something on par with the Horus Heresy
-Tyranids in the longer term with fast evolution/endless resources almost. Though if natural selection has still not gotten rid of biovores, for the mean time at least, I don't think that the Imperium have too much to worry about. :p
-Necrons, decimate in the long term providing that they can reach a fully functioning state and Tyranids cannot adapt to them in time.
-Tau, no.
-Eldar, not enough of them, no real motive to go after the Imperium specifically.

Melissia
01-30-2010, 01:46 PM
Orks have nearly annihilated whole segments of the Imperium plenty of imes. In entire sub-sectors have been dominated by Orks in single WAAAGH!s. One of the most heavily defended worlds in the Imperium is now a shattered warzone because of an Ork invasion, and the warlord that started it isn't even there anymore. People really underestimate the threat of the Orks.

Force21
01-30-2010, 01:53 PM
gw


lol.


hmmm it is a pretty close with Chaos, Tyranids or Necrons.

I would go with Chaos...


because all you need is like Marneus Calgar & some Ultramarines to hold off the Tyranids....unless the nids make their own Marneus Calgar....that would be funny...

& Necrons well they are too sleepy to be a big problem... but if all the Necrons woke up then yeah its game over lol.


soooo............ CHAOS OMG... SEND THE GREY KNIGHTS!!!!!

Madness
01-30-2010, 02:37 PM
Define threat, and define defeat, converting the whole imperium to the cult of chaos counts? Annihilating it? Making it work towards your own benefit without it knowing?

The point is that the fluff is clearly crafted to depict a pseudodynamic empasse, a faction can pose a pretty big threat at a certain point, but then Deux Ex Machina happens and it's back to square one.

Unless you're a squat.

So truth be told, there's no threat to the Imperium, and the 41m Imperium is so different from the horus heresy era that one could argue that the old Imperium died already in a struggly between power hungry political factions.

All other points are just point of views and pretty much moot.

Melissia
01-30-2010, 02:43 PM
Which is precisely why I said that the Imperium is its own biggest threat, Madness.

Fellend
01-31-2010, 08:15 AM
Orks have nearly annihilated whole segments of the Imperium plenty of imes. In entire sub-sectors have been dominated by Orks in single WAAAGH!s. One of the most heavily defended worlds in the Imperium is now a shattered warzone because of an Ork invasion, and the warlord that started it isn't even there anymore. People really underestimate the threat of the Orks.

Yes and in a thousand years thouse planets will be back in the Imperiums benificient rule and all will be forgotten (while new sections of the Imperium gets horribly ravaged)

Legoklods
01-31-2010, 09:02 AM
Nids are not that much of a threat. they have succesfully been held at bay by a very small portion of the Imperiums forces.
Chaos on the other hand.
Look at Cadia. Most of this has been defeated and It is supposed to be the best defended planet in the galaxy after earth.It is also very important because now (yeah 39.999) Chaos forces are able to spill forth from the eye of terror since noone is guarding the cadian gate.
Now that is bad, and the emperium can do much. They are throwing everything they've got at Abaddon and it just isn't enough!:eek:

Legoklods
01-31-2010, 09:06 AM
Orks do have the by far greatest potential to destroy the imperium, but luckily, ORKZ IZ MADE FOR FIGHTAN (each other) AN' WINNIN'

Melissia
01-31-2010, 02:17 PM
yeah 39.999
Current timeline is in the early 41,000s. The forces of Chaos aren't really able to slip through, they can get on Cadia but it's very difficult for them to get PAST Cadia. Cadia is still a perpetual warzone.

DarkLink
01-31-2010, 04:08 PM
Nids are not that much of a threat. they have succesfully been held at bay by a very small portion of the Imperiums forces.
Chaos on the other hand.
Look at Cadia. Most of this has been defeated and It is supposed to be the best defended planet in the galaxy after earth.It is also very important because now (yeah 39.999) Chaos forces are able to spill forth from the eye of terror since noone is guarding the cadian gate.
Now that is bad, and the emperium can do much. They are throwing everything they've got at Abaddon and it just isn't enough!:eek:

Abbadon's tried to invade and destroy Cadia 13 times, and failed each time. I'd say Cadia is still going pretty strong, considering a track record like that.

And the Ordo Malleus seems to have a pretty good handle on chaos stuff popping up elsewhere. I'd not really consider Chaos to be that big of a threat.

As for other races, well, Orks are too busy fighting themselves, just like they've been doing for just about forever. They cause problems every once and a while, but once again, not the biggest threat.

Necrons still haven't woken up. Not the biggest threat.

Tau are a tiny little empire. No real threat there right now.

Eldar are indifferent to the survival of the Imperium. Not allies (except against Chaos), but not enemies either, at least on a big enough of a scale to threaten the Imperium.

Tyranids, however, have a tendency to devout large swaths of territory. Of all the races, I'd say 'nidz are the biggest threat, simply due to the spread of massive, near implacable hive fleets all over the place.

Melissia
01-31-2010, 04:41 PM
But ONLY if you assume there's many more Tyranid hive fleets out there to begin with. We all know there's only as many Tyranid hive fleets as the narrative demands. Tyranids have no means of production, all they can do is attempt to steal what others have-- Humanity will eventually overcome Tyranids simply through attrition, as humanity keeps producing more warriors while Tyranids dwindle in numbers.

Subject Keyword
01-31-2010, 05:02 PM
So it was strongly hinted by an in-universe character in a sort-of-expanded-universe material. Probable but not something I'll sign my will upon.

It's also all over the Necron codex and Xenology.

Has the Imperium so soon forgotten that there is only one type of space faring vessel to have penetrated Terra's defenses since the Heresy?
Hint: it's like an evil croissant.

Drew da Destroya
02-03-2010, 12:33 PM
I didn't think the Crons landed on Terra, I was pretty sure they landed on Mars (going to check on their Dragon buddy, I believe). One actually landed before being blown to pieces, which is a pretty impressive feat, considering Mars is probably the second-most defended planet in the galaxy (Terra being #1, although I'd bet Tau is pretty heavily defended, too).

Herald of Nurgle
02-03-2010, 01:42 PM
Erm, 13th Black Crusade is still going on I believe. And Abaddon still has hordes flowing from the Eye to begin the sweeping motion.

Anyway, I chose Nids. Dunno why, but it... just made sense.

oldone
02-23-2010, 12:05 PM
i think nids as in there new codex it actaully says inless all race's unit(not very likely) they are all doom it may take 10 it may take 10,000 but it will happen. also the crons or squats could do it just cos there that cool:D

Melissia
02-23-2010, 01:17 PM
Yes yes yes, it says that. It also says in the Ork codex that they could unite at any time and wipe out the galaxy. It does not say it is impossible that they would, just unlikely, but then the years are long and the chances are frequent. People always, ALWAYS underestimate the threat of Orks, and it rather annoys me. I bet you'd be able to take them seriously if you saw millions of boyz charging your city and deafening you with their waaaghcry.

The 'nids are far slower to adapt than people claim them to be. The Necrons are neither united (the surviving C'tan Stargods hate eachothers' guts, and that doesn't count those Necron Lords that appear to be trying to STOP the C'tan from awakening or even oppose them, though we don't know why or if this is even so) nor even fully awakened. Chaos is, of course, Chaos, and therefor fights itself as much as or more than it does others, and even Orks are more united than they are when presented with a non-Ork enemy to battle. The Tau aren't even a remote consideration, and the Eldar have long since passed the days of their civilization's prime.

But the Orks, they are the single most populous race in the galaxy. A race bent on war, a race that lives and breathes war, designed so powerfully for war that they fought against the Necrons and C'tan during their most powerful days and survived, they fought against the Enslaver Plagues and survived, and not only survived but thrived beyond the imagination of all other races, to become an ever-present force of destruction that plagues the entire galaxy. Countless millions of worlds are conquered by Orks completely, and countless more are infested and in constant struggle with the inhabitants-- a struggle which is shall never end due to the Orkoid biology. And with each generation of Orks there comes a chance that a great leader is spawned amongst them, that one leader that could wipe all races in the entire galaxy and paint it green.

Some people can't take Orks seriously. But that's because they do not know Orks.

Madness
02-23-2010, 01:24 PM
What's interesting about orks is that they seem to be doomed to fail, whether it is only for narrative purposeds or because the brainboyz (and therefore the authors) fleshed them to be unable to escalate beyond a certain limit, a WAAAGH! will always disband, it might last longer, but at a certain point their travelling system, their constant infighting or something else will fail them.

It would make sense that they were developed with a sort of fail-safe system, wouldn't it?

Melissia
02-23-2010, 01:26 PM
Their constant infighting actually helps them. If they are in a time of "peace", Orks will of course fight amongst themselves, but come on, they're ORKS. Fighting is a good thing. Fighting for Orks means getting bigger, stronger, and smarter, and having more and bigger gunz, and a better choppa. Fighting means more Orks will spawn, as Orks spawn the most spores when they die even if they spawn spores all their lives it pales in comparison to the moment of death.

"In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, There is Only War"
Think about this. 40k is an Ork's paradise.

Madness
02-23-2010, 01:35 PM
the cycle roughly is:
*Waaagh is born following a warlord
*Waaagh grows
*Waaagh is left with no enemy to fight, they turn to infighting until they grow bored of it
OR
*Waaagh is defeated and they are set back to "angelis" or "pre-Waaagh" society
*a new chance for Waaagh (enemy, hulk passing nearby, spaceship build) arises
*they get pumped up and after some infighting a warlord arises
*loop

papa smurf
02-23-2010, 02:57 PM
Id say necrons, as they are very dangerous and even the Tyranids, split their giant fleet into two halves when they came across some necrons (i think, cannot recall)

The weakness for the necrons is the fact that they take their time doing whatever they want to do, which allows other groups to do what they will

yeah you're right about the 'nids avoiding a necron controlled space, i believe it is mentioned in their new codex somewhere, but it isn't because the 'nids are scared. i believe that the reason tyranids leave necrons alone is because necrons and their tomb worlds offer next to no biomass.
think about it: tomb worlds are usually barren, and necrons are made out of metal, not flesh and blood, so the nids wouldn't have much to absorb save some minerals and the planet's water/atmosphere. there are definitely more tasty planets tyranids concern themselves with

that being said, for my vote i think threat-wise tyranids are just a step above chaos, being the most immediate threat. they lose no resources if they win battles, because they just reabsorb biomass. Fluff wise, the hive fleets encountered so far may just be miniscule fractions to the tyranid whole. they create a shadow in the warp, pretty much screwing every race that relies on warp travel and psykers. Fluff wise, tyranids like an unstoppable force, the question is what will happen when they hit an immovable object like, orks for example. the only reason i don't put orks as a high threat is because they are divided and never fight as a whole, except for WAAAGHs!
the reason i give chaos an honorable mention is because i include chaos marines, demons, and cultists all in one bundle. cultists, although not represented in the game, make up the largest portion of chaos forces and the imperium has arguably more trouble against heretics and traitors than against all outside influence like xenos. chaos marines and demons are pretty much icing on that chaotic cake. And let's not forget that if the emperor wasn't around to hold back the entities of the warp, humans everywhere would be subject to mass possession and demonic takeover. no biggie though right ;) ?

papa smurf
02-23-2010, 03:13 PM
I forgot to add in, with nothing for the Tyranids to feed off (as necrons are non-biological) they would starve to death or be beaten, and with nothing for Chaos to corrupt and no emotions to feed off the warp would fall silent and calm and the Chaos Gods would dissipate.

this is true. however, given the chance, tyranids can re-absorb biomass, so let us say that a battle takes place on a planet, tyranids win, necrons move on. tyranids lose nothing, because not only can they re-absorb their dead, but also any important resources from the planet itself.
after reading your post, i feel that a necron/tyranid fight would just be an endless meat/metal grinder if they were the only factions left. Either that, or tyranids might just leave if they couldn't absorb anything else.

MarneusCalgar
02-23-2010, 03:17 PM
Voted Chaos... Think the final battle will be that, once orks, tyranids and eldar are finally defeated...

Madness
02-23-2010, 03:39 PM
That would imply that tyranids are able to reuse biomass with a 100% efficiency, which I honestly can't believe. Their modus operandi also suggests otherwise.

miteyheroes
02-23-2010, 05:53 PM
Voted Chaos... Think the final battle will be that, once orks, tyranids and eldar are finally defeated...

The final battle will be the Warp vs the Not-Warp, Chaos vs Necrons. Everything else is insignificant.

Dark_Templar
02-23-2010, 06:01 PM
It will be Orks vs Nids, or Orknids if they merge biomass, which would be cool. After that, it would be Orknids vs Galactus vs Jason.

Nabterayl
02-23-2010, 06:35 PM
I'm going with orks. We don't know for sure that the tyranids ate their last galaxy, and even if they did, we have no idea what it was populated with. We do know that ork-infested space dwarfs even the Imperium in extent, and that an ork empire can stand up to tyranids. The best efforts the tyranids have put forth so far have been stopped by the Imperium - at great cost, but stopped. I'm not really sure it's fair to say that the best efforts the orks have put forth so far have been stopped. In fact, the Imperium's been around for 10,000 years, and it still doesn't have a solution to the orkish problem. In many ways I'd say that the Imperium's track record against the hive fleets is better than its track record against orks.

AirHorse
02-25-2010, 07:22 PM
Its obviously orks, everyone knows an ork can never lose a fight!

Nabterayl
02-25-2010, 08:18 PM
Something that occurred to me the other day ... if the tyranids did eat their last galaxy, what exactly did they gain from it? They aren't represented in the fluff as having particularly advanced technology, after all. They're certainly amazing for organisms, but fluff-wise, they don't feel like they've evolved to the point that they blow everybody else out of the water. Necrons, eldar, and tau all have technology that is represented as being significantly better than everybody else's (even though, tabletop-wise, they aren't in a league of their own). Based on the state of tyranid evolution, it doesn't really seem like last galaxy they had to contend with anything that tough.

Not that that proves the tyranids are doomed to fail. But it does make me question just how impressed we should be by the whole "they've already eaten one galaxy" hypothesis. Even if true, this galaxy seems like a tougher nut to crack.

Orks, meanwhile, have done pretty well against the worst this galaxy can throw at them ... :D

AirHorse
02-25-2010, 08:58 PM
Totaly agree, i had a thought along those lines the other day myself. It occured to me that the talk of the tyranids and their state of evolution is supposed to have each lifeform designed to "perfection" in its role within the swarms.

If thats perfection well then the emperor did a fine job with his little experiment since tyranids are aparently aeons old and thats as far as they got. Space marines, and to a lesser extent orks(since orks are pretty old though it seems like they are mostly unchanged from their beginings minus "brain boyz") are pretty impressive considering all the tyranids do is eat, evolve, eat some more, evolve some more etc aparently.

I dont think the tyranids stand a chance once this galaxy gets itself organised, though that is a tall order to ask of this galaxy :P

Ultimately I evaluated each different option using two different criteria. One, how numerous/powerful are they? Orks- well there aint no lack of orks thats for sure! Two, who wants to win the most? Orks-well orks want nothing more than the biggest, baddest fightin they can get their hands on, and going by the way the imperium has handled itself thus far, orks would probaly have their version of heaven something similar to invading the imperial palace on terra :)

Madness
02-25-2010, 09:15 PM
Or maybe they work on a very different time scale, it's not unusual for larger organisms to be more longeve and with a slower metabolysm, maybe what we're seeing is the point of an iceberg large enough to occupy several galaxies (there's a lot of nothing between one and the other).

We have no idea if what we see as the Tyranid threat is an autonomic function of the hive mind or an active act of aggression, ofr what we know there might be a galaxy much more intresting on a different side of the universe who's getting all the attention while this one is being digested at what is the "normal" rate.

That's the good part of the Tyranid fluff, it's cleverly disseminated with hints but very open to expansion.

Orks. Orks are a weapon, a weapon that's extremely hard to get rid of and a weapon that is programmed not to blow the whole stuff up. Orks need enemies and they have a somewhat short attention span.

Melissia
02-25-2010, 11:05 PM
Orks need enemies. In 40k they have no lack of it. People make too big a deal of Orks doing infighting, it's actually healthy for their species do tod that because of how they reproduce.

Madness
02-26-2010, 06:13 AM
Infighting is a big deal because it doesn't improve the waaagh! size, it reduces and splits it. When an already established waaagh! turns on itself it tends to die. Orks don't reproduce by fighting, orks reproduce by... being. The waaa energies act as a signal for the spores to blossom at a faster rate, but it's by no mean necessary for orks to control a planet they already own.

Melissia
02-26-2010, 10:02 AM
Orks do reproduce by fighting-- or, rather, by dying. Latest codex has them release far more spores when they die than they ever release over the course of their life unless they are particularly long lived.

Madness
02-26-2010, 10:16 AM
That's like saying humans reproduce by drinking, you have a better chance at impregnating (or getting pregnant) if you're drunk, but it's not how you should put it.

Melissia
02-26-2010, 10:30 AM
No, it isn't. Entirely different biological concepts. Orks release the greatest amount of spores-- dwarfing the rest of their life combined-- when they die.

Madness
02-26-2010, 11:26 AM
Orks reproduce by spores, not by fighting, they constantly release spores, more when they die, but that's hardly required. Just as fighting is not required to die.

But that's really pointless because orks numbers grow only when they are needed to grow. Say there's an enemy, orks grow large (in size and numbers) enough to face said enemy,

if the enemy can manage the ork threat, they flee or get exterminated (eventually they can return later when the gestalt decides it's time to make some spore blossom, that's if the enemy didn't go scorched earth on their bottoms)
if the enemy is on par with Orks, the orks either grow enough to go to point 3 or can't keep up and end up to point 1.
if the orks manage to overwhelm the enemy they go on trying to find more to kill, chances are

they won't find any before the orks get bored, the waagh is disbanded
they only find some, so some orks get bored and start following a different waaagh! elsewhere
they find even more and the loop starts again


But eventually they will always give up on the easy fights as they are not entertaining so they will try and chew more, until the point they try to chew more that they can take, or end up without close enough enemies, and Orks are not exactly patient.

But that's a good thing, it means that orks are either always fighting or always about ti fight. It's true that they never lose, it's also true that they never win, since winning means that the fight is over, which is more like a loss to them.

Hairy Piggy
02-27-2010, 09:02 AM
Back to the original topic, I think it's hard to measure who is the greatest threat. For all we know, the 'crons could have billions of warriors, millions on every planet, or then again they may only have forces on a few worlds. Similarly, the nids might have shown there full force in the hive fleets that havve already entered the galaxy. Or maybe that was just a small proportion of their power. Chaos is an ever present threat, not the marines but the daemons, cultists etc. All in all, who can say which is the greatest threat. Let's just hope they advance the story line a bit(despite it being m40 999) and show us who wins out.

Force21
02-27-2010, 03:48 PM
Back to the original topic, I think it's hard to measure who is the greatest threat. For all we know, the 'crons could have billions of warriors, millions on every planet, or then again they may only have forces on a few worlds. Similarly, the nids might have shown there full force in the hive fleets that havve already entered the galaxy. Or maybe that was just a small proportion of their power. Chaos is an ever present threat, not the marines but the daemons, cultists etc. All in all, who can say which is the greatest threat.

Let's just hope they advance the story line a bit(despite it being m40 999) and show us who wins out.


The cats do...lol.


while we are on topic...

it looks like the nids are being held off.....barely...Tau & Eldar are still not that big of a threat...

sooo...its Orks, Necrons & Chaos.

I still think Chaos is still the biggest threat...

Necrons are still taking a nap & Orks...well they are Orks...plus if orks really could wipe out The Imperium then why now..?

they were a problem since man took to the stars & we are still alive...somewhat lol :D

Melissia
02-27-2010, 04:36 PM
Orks reproduce by spores

... which are produced most heavily while fighting or dying.

Madness
02-27-2010, 04:44 PM
... which are produced most heavily while fighting or dying.
But not exclusively.

daveclark890
03-02-2010, 03:21 PM
In my opinion there are several forces that can be counted out straight away.....

Eldar.. dying race, can fight now but are dwindling in number and every loss hurts them badly.

Tau.. they are on the edge of imperial space and are not large enough to really count as a threat as they are a developing race but you also have to consider that the Imperium would have agents planted amongst the people who have decided to fight for the "greater good"

Dark Eldar.. the same as the eldar only they are less powerful and less numerous.

Chaos.. fighting on many many fronts and if people dont believe then they loose their power and are cast back to the warp which means they can never really get a proper foothold in the universe of man.

Orks.. orks could well be the downfall of the human race but not through their own actions (i will explai in a minute) They wont ever take over the universe because they are too interested in having a good scrap and this will prevent them ever taking over the galaxy.

Nids.. This is where the orks may kill the universe, nids use the dna from killed and digested enemies, the orks are fighting machines so the nids will evolve their skills as well as their own which could make for even scarier evolved fighting monsters!!

Necrons.. The nids avoid cron worlds, even if the crons are still asleep. this leads me to think that the nids hive mind links are damaged and cut by necrons so necrons can disrupt and destroy nids!! then we have things like the attempt to get onto mars.. why?? how many planets are tomb worlds but the population have no idea what is beneathe the ground they walk on??!!

All in all I would say that NECRONS will again rise to be the dominant race and will again surrender the galaxy to other races when they become glutted and bored so that they can again go into stasis and await the filling of the galaxy with more food for the C'Tan.

bob9801
03-03-2010, 01:56 AM
Nids.. This is where the orks may kill the universe, nids use the dna from killed and digested enemies, the orks are fighting machines so the nids will evolve their skills as well as their own which could make for even scarier evolved fighting monsters!!

Necrons.. The nids avoid cron worlds, even if the crons are still asleep. this leads me to think that the nids hive mind links are damaged and cut by necrons so necrons can disrupt and destroy nids!!

I am not very learned in the fluff yet. but aren't necrons nonbilogical? the nids, needing dna and biomass, could know not to bother with a race that there is nothing to gain from. if this is correct and the crons and nids faced off in the end the crons could win by starving the nids, unless the nids had already gorged themselves on the entire rest of the galaxy. then they would just starve to death after defeating the crons.

sebi81
03-04-2010, 06:35 AM
nothing in our universe will alter the status quo... for warhammer 40k the imperium is needed and the threats for the imperium are needed.
the greatest threat for the imperium are not the other forces, the greatest threat is the imperium itself. every bigger change will lead to a civil war, as the imperium is so slow and big that fast reforms will tear it apart.
in my opinion, nothing can beat the imperium but the imperium can´t get a better place either. if you count lives in billions of billions and planets in millions, you cannot be beaten at all unless you beat yourself.
the orks have been there forever and were never a thread to the imperium at all.
the eldar are a dying race and their number is reducing all the time the number of humans is increasing.
the tau are technical advancing (which is a large advantage in 40k) but they just don´t have the right attitude to win...
necrons have been beaten once before and nowadays with the rise of chaos and the number of psykers increasing, they can´t win at all... back to the crypt is a better way for them.
chaos is the biggest enemy of the emperor but not of humankind. the humans and their feelings are needed to keep the chaos alive... i think the chaos gods are pleased with the imperium as it is...
the tyranids come eat and die... as an animal, they can be killed if you starve them or shoot them all... much more tyranids will be needed to take the live of every human in the imperium. they always won fights only because the imperium is slow in his reactions.
so in the end, the factions are ballanced and i don´t see why or how one of them could kill the others...
unless something really outstanding and surprising happens. maybe the nids are fleeing cause a even worse threat hunts them? or the emperor awakes and there will be a civil war? but such things will not happen in official fluff, cause the status quo is needed for the game...

Melissia
03-04-2010, 12:31 PM
But not exclusively.
No, but still, fighting produces a much larger amount of spores.

Madness
03-04-2010, 03:13 PM
Again, being a redneck isn't necessary to reproduce between humans, but it produces a larger amount of younglings, I wouldn't say that humanity reproduces by being rednecks.

Grubnar
06-13-2010, 08:50 AM
Greatest threat to the Imperium: Chaos.

Greatest threat to Humanity: Orkz.

Orkz are the only xeno race that rivals humanity in terms of numbers and territory. :D

DarkAngelHopeful
06-14-2010, 04:56 AM
Again, being a redneck isn't necessary to reproduce between humans, but it produces a larger amount of younglings, I wouldn't say that humanity reproduces by being rednecks.

Madness, I see that you're trying to point out that fighting does not equal reproduction for Orks, right? Or in others words, while there is a correlation, there isn't causality, right?

And from what I have seen Melissa post, I believe her point is that fighting and dying simply increases Orks spore release, thus increasing their reproduction rate. Right?

Just seems like a minor miscommunication. No big deal. =)

Andrew283
06-14-2010, 07:48 AM
Let them argue it out. All the more entertaining or us observers lol :D

Melissia
06-14-2010, 07:56 AM
But not to me. Ignoring the background-- which Madness is doing at the moment, because what I stated is literal fact, not hyperbole or logically fallacious-- does not make for a good discussion in the background forum.

Javin
06-14-2010, 10:11 PM
I would think the Nids or Humanity itself would be the two biggest threats to the Imperium. Nids because they do stronger and more attacks each time. Perhaps they are sending everything they have each time, but that may just be hopeful thinking. Humanity because we do far more damage to ourselves then all the other races combined.

Erasmus of Baal
06-15-2010, 06:05 AM
Tyranids. There is no known limit to those buggers and they can keep hitting basically as long as we exist.

The only real follow-p would be Chaos, as they draw strength from Humanity's strength without being dependent upon it. Any human can become a servant of Chaos and thus turn against the Imperium, but no servant of Chaos has yet turned away and repented so far as I am aware.

Melissia
06-15-2010, 06:48 AM
Tyranids. There is no known limit to those buggers and they can keep hitting basically as long as we exist.

The only real follow-p would be Chaos, as they draw strength from Humanity's strength without being dependent upon it. Any human can become a servant of Chaos and thus turn against the Imperium, but no servant of Chaos has yet turned away and repented so far as I am aware.

There is also no actual known limit to Humans or Orks.

The Inquisition turns Chaos' servants away from the worship of the dark gods all the time. Sometimes they don't even have to use mind-cleansing. The main reason Chaos servants aren't converted is because the Imperium rarely tries (The Inquisition just kills them unless they have skills that are highly valuable, as they aren't worth the effort of mind-cleansing or converting normally, given the untold billions, if not trillions of humans in the galaxy).

Erasmus of Baal
06-15-2010, 10:50 AM
There is also no actual known limit to Humans or Orks.

Sure, but they also reproduce more slowly. Also, the rough numbers of Humans and Orks--even combined--are dwarfed by the apparent numbers of Tyranids capable of invading (see http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Strategic_Collective).


The Inquisition turns Chaos' servants away from the worship of the dark gods all the time. Sometimes they don't even have to use mind-cleansing. The main reason Chaos servants aren't converted is because the Imperium rarely tries (The Inquisition just kills them unless they have skills that are highly valuable, as they aren't worth the effort of mind-cleansing or converting normally, given the untold billions, if not trillions of humans in the galaxy).

To be perfectly honest, I've never heard of this before. I mean, I believe you, but it's only furthering my point that Chaos is a much more minor threat than the Tyranids. (It's the one that I'm used to seeing the most as actually trying to destroy the Imperium and some of my friends use this as evidence that Chaos is the greatest threat.)

Melissia
06-15-2010, 12:14 PM
Sure, but they also reproduce more slowly. Also, the rough numbers of Humans and Orks--even combined--are dwarfed by the apparent numbers of Tyranids capable of invading (see http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Strategic_Collective). No, they don't. Tyranids must gain biomass to reproduce, Orks just have to live and they're constantly reproducing through releasing spores. A Tyranid hive fleet that hasn't run across any planets will never grow. An Ork warband will reproduce no matter what, unless literally all of them are killed and their bodies are burned-- and even then, there will still be spores released which aren't caught in the fire, and those will be more than enough to let them reproduce.




To be perfectly honest, I've never heard of this before.Dark Heresy: Inquisitor's Handbook has rules for creating a character who was mind-cleansed-- this can be simply people who knew too much but were too useful to kill off, or heretics who were mindwiped in order to serve the Imperium they once opposed. A new convert, be it to the Imperial Creed or to Chaos, is always going to be particularly zealous.

Tyranids can be fought off and annihilated. Chaos cannot.

Nabterayl
06-15-2010, 01:17 PM
Sure, but they also reproduce more slowly. Also, the rough numbers of Humans and Orks--even combined--are dwarfed by the apparent numbers of Tyranids capable of invading (see http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Strategic_Collective).
As far as orks go, that's unclear. According to the ork codex, the Imperium doesn't actually span the entire galaxy. The Mechanicus has sent unmanned probes beyond the edges of the Imperium and so far they have not found any space that isn't occupied by orks. That doesn't necessarily do the Imperium any good, of course, but ork-occupied space is larger in extent than human-occupied space.

Melissia
06-15-2010, 03:52 PM
Also, Lexicanum is not a canon source. It's equal to wikipedia, and colleges don't let you cite wikipedia :P What you want to do is look at Lexicanum's sources-- if they provide any.

Hugz4Genestealers
06-15-2010, 07:20 PM
Funny story, that. My college German textbook cites wikipedia as a source in one instance. I was greatly amused.

Melissia
06-15-2010, 07:30 PM
Lol. No teacher I've ever come across would accept wikipedia...

Connjurus
06-16-2010, 01:19 AM
Chaos.

The Necron pylons holding the Eye of Terror in check are failing, the Orks will never unite, the Tau are too young and too smart to attack the Imperium head-on, the Eldar are dying, and sure, the Tyranid might be near-limitless...but Daemons truly are infinite.
I mean, consider the fact that barely a fraction of all the Chaos God's infinite intelligences are devoted towards the Imperium. It's pretty much the same thing as the whole "if the Orks were to ever unite" idea. If the Chaos Gods ever really wanted to destroy any and everything, they probably could. But they are, for now and forever more, focused on The Great Game.

Regardless, Chaos nearly caused the destruction of the Imperium once. All other races besides the Necron use the Warp in one way or another, and the C'tan are more allergic to the warp than an Ork is to dental hygiene. So Chaos will always win in the end. Besides, I could've sworn I read somewhere that the Chaos Gods have gotten so large that they're self-sustaining...but even if they didn't, all this fighting across the Galaxy only strengthens them. More Psykers are being born every year, more warpstorms are springing up...

So, hands-down, kowtowing towards the Eight-Pointed Star of the Undivided, it's Chaos.

Erasmus of Baal
06-16-2010, 07:51 AM
Also, Lexicanum is not a canon source. It's equal to wikipedia, and colleges don't let you cite wikipedia :P What you want to do is look at Lexicanum's sources-- if they provide any.

Fair enough. Codex: Tyranids, 3rd ed., then. (While I have had issues with Wikipedia not sourcing correctly, I've never seen such an issue with the Lexicanum.)

Melissia
06-16-2010, 07:54 AM
Then you haven't argued enough. I've seen many people show issue with lexicanum, including examples of lexicanum editors pulling things out of their ***** or misreading things.

Page number?

Drunkencorgimaster
06-16-2010, 10:11 AM
With all due respect to the logical comments above, I'm inclined to go with the Nids. From a macro-perspective the Orks and Chaos have been hacking at the Imperium for 10,000 years (roughly) and have not made a crippling blow yet. The Tyranids have been around for 700 years (roughly) and seem to have eaten up a quarter of the galaxy or so. Using this logic however, the Necrons could prove to be a pretty serious threat too.

Melissia
06-16-2010, 10:39 AM
Looking at the various galaxy maps in the rulebook, Tyranids most assuredly haven't eaten a quarter of the galaxy.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/f/fe/Tyranids_incursions.jpg

Compare that, to, say, the Orks.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/6/6c/Orks_activity.jpg

And those are only MAJOR Ork planets, and not even all of the major ones.

Gooball
06-16-2010, 11:17 AM
Orks.
You can't beat them, even if the nyds or necrons destroy everything the spores they release would mean that within a few years a couple of empty planets are now infested with orks.
Another thing to note is that the higher the ork per planet count is the larger and stronger they are, and there are places in the galaxy that may hold orks larger and more powerful that even ghazgkul

Lord_Crull
06-16-2010, 11:44 AM
Abbadon's tried to invade and destroy Cadia 13 times, and failed each time. I'd say Cadia is still going pretty strong, considering a track record like that.


Actually no.

Abbadon ovveran most of Cadia and wrecked many of the nearby planets in the Sector. This is true in both Cadian Blood and in the latest Chaos Codex. Not to mention Chaos won the actual results for the Eye of Terror campaign.

Also, not all Black Crusades were directed at Cadia. That is a misconception. For example the 12th Black Crusade was directed at the Gothic Sector, almost half a segmentum away from Cadia. And that was a strategic sucess for Abbadon. In fact the old chaos Codex flat out stated that some of the 'Black Crusades' were merely raids carried out by small elite companies of the Black Legion for a single goal. Anyone who thinks Abbadon is going to sweep aside Cadia and march al the way through the Segmentum Obscuras and Solar is a fool. The Imperium is far too heavily defended.

Instead, Abbadon is biding his time, keeping the Imperium on their toes. Look at it from his point of view. He has all the time in the world. The Imperium crumbles before him. Eventually it will give way.

Melissia
06-16-2010, 01:38 PM
Screw Abbadon, he's not the biggest threat of Chaos. The true threat of chaos is a subtle corruption from within, not slaughter from without.

Lord_Crull
06-16-2010, 08:43 PM
Screw Abbadon, he's not the biggest threat of Chaos. The true threat of chaos is a subtle corruption from within, not slaughter from without.

I don't believe I was contesting that. I was simply adressing a misconception.;)

Melissia
06-16-2010, 09:01 PM
Maybe. But I was being rather serious. Chaos cannot provide quite the physical threat that the others provide, it's just the nature of chaos-- more disorganized than Orks, and with far more infighting. However, there is no victory like, and no conquest quite as complete as, turning your opponent to your side so that they fight against your enemies with the zeal of the newly converted. While they find it hard to effect Tau, Orks, and Tyranids due to their biology (though Farsight might be influenced by Khorne-- I don't know the full story on him), humans are particularly vulnerable to the influence of Chaos.

Connjurus
06-17-2010, 12:07 AM
Orks have fallen to Nurgle, as have Tyranid. The Eldar have fallen to Slaanesh - but humans are definitely the most easily susceptible. But, like I said, the Galaxy should be grateful the full attention of the Gods have never been laid upon it - not that it ever has, nor will it, but IF it were, the Galaxy would be screwed, plain and simple.

The Gods just don't care enough. The only thing big enough to threaten a Chaos God is another Chaos God. :P


Also, O'Shovah most assuredly hasn't fallen to Khorne. You'd be able to tell. Khorne's not very subtle. I doubt it's Necron, as the Ethereals are the Deceivers little puppets. It could be one of the other C'tan, though doubtful...so either it's something along the line of the Alpha Legion to the Imperium - read O'Shovah's "Starfarer's" quote to see what I mean - he could just have gone renegade, or whatever. There are only a few facts we can see that are indisputable.
1) He has a big, clearly un-Tau sword.
2) He broke away from the Tau Empire AS SOON as his last Ethereal died.
3) He really hates Orks.
4) He established the "Farsight Enclaves" in such a way as to form a sort of "buffer zone" between the Imperium of Man and the Tau Empire - why? We don't know. Personally, I like to think he realized that the Ethereals are bad ju-ju, but he couldn't bring himself to make war on his own people, so instead set up the Enclave as a way of dissuading both the Imperium of Man and the Tau Empire of encroaching upon each other's territory. I also think he actually has lived the full 350 years, as his picture makes him look freaing old, and it's just so much cooler, but whatever. I digress.

CHAOS IS THE BIGGEST THREAT TO THE IMPERIUM.

It is the only threat from both within and without. 'nuff said. The Tyranid can't make your heads explode just by looking at them without them doing anything, and if you try and fight alongside them, well, you'd die. Genestealer cults are too far-removed to truly qualify as a large threat from within, whereas Chaos Cults are on almost every single world, and Chaos can subvert you through a nearly infinite number of means, at once or over the course of decades.

At the same time, your world might have been one of the worlds attacked by, oh, I dunno, Angron and his 50,000+ Khorne Berzerkers in the Dominion of Fire that lasted for over two centuries. Why did he do that? Because he could.

Tyranids have a rhyme and a reason - to attack and devour worlds right in biomass. Eldar seek to preserve their dwindling race. Dark Eldar want slaves. Tau want to expand. Even Orks attack worlds they think'll put up a zoggin' good fight. Chaos? Chaos is utterly unpredictable, hence the name.

So, for the third time, Chaos is, was, and forever shall be the biggest threat to the Imperium of Man, as well as every other race in the galaxy.

Nabterayl
06-17-2010, 12:59 AM
Chaos? Chaos is utterly unpredictable, hence the name.
Chaos is totally predictable - as dangerous as it is, I don't think it's very well named in that respect. If it were utterly unpredictable, we wouldn't be able to make statements like "Khorne's not very subtle." The Ruinous Powers have consistent motivations, personalities, traits, and behaviors. What Chaos isn't is eradicable. Even orks can be eradicated in theory, if not in practice. Chaos is ineradicable in practice and in theory both. I'm not sure that makes it the biggest danger to the Imperium, but I certainly agree it's the most complete threat.

Melissia
06-17-2010, 01:25 AM
Orks have fallen to NurgleOrks are naturally resistant to Chaos. This has always been part of their fluff. The gestalt psychic field of the WAAAGH! lends them such resistance, and more importantly, when an Ork is corrupted he becomes "un-orky" in the mind of his compatriots, and therefor is killed.

It is by all technicalities possible for Chaos to corrupt an Ork, but they are by far the most resistant species aside from the Necrons and C'tan themselves. Keep in mind, Chaos has bee asserting its influence over Orks since the time of the war between the Old Ones and the C'tan back when the daemons of Chaos were first created (by the Old Ones, oddly enough, when they tried to use the Warp as a weapon against the C'tan)-- yet the Orks as a species have remained pretty much free of taint. All this time, they have been fighting Chaos' servants (and every other enemy they could reach), both daemonic and mortal. As a species, Orks are definitely the most survivable, adaptable, and war-ready of any of 40k's species.

And don't think Chaos didn't try to corrupt the species. Do you really think Khorne, for example, wouldn't want the Orks under his thumb as his mortal footsoldiers? The most populous race in the galaxy, a race that lives and dies for no reason but to fight? And Nurgle has very likely taken offense to the Orkish durability, not liking their seeming unwilingness to just friggin' die, and their general lack of despair (they're stated explicitly to be the only race native to the Milky Way Galaxy that the Nightbringer couldn't give the fear of death to). Slaanesh is more recent, and likely has little to do with Orks, but given their powerful psychic presence-- the presence of a sizeable WAAAGH! has given Ork psykers enough energy to turn entire armies into squigs!-- Tzeentch certainly would have been interested in the Orks.

And yet, the race is not conquered. It not only remains unconquered, the Ork race thrives in a galaxy that is destroying all other races. The Eldar are a failing race, Human empires constantly rise and then crumble, the Tau are hopelessly outnumbered by all due to their race's youth, the Necrontyr are now seemingly splintered and often mentally unstable due to their long slumber, and their C'tan overlords fiercely hate eachother. Even the Tyranids are handed crushing defeat after crushing defeat-- sure, they devour a few worlds, some of them even important ones. But they aren't breaking the Imperium's back the way it might be claimed, because the Tyranids have a very important weakness-- they cannot produce resources, they can only take. Keep in mind that the "biomass" of a planet is situated pretty much only on its outer crust. On Earth, the crust makes up less than one percent of the planet's mass-- the rest of its mass, the Tyranids do not and cannot use, and not even all of the crust of a planet is biomass anyway.

Amidst all of this constant warfare that is destroying all the other races... Orks thrive. The reason that the most common enemy that the Imperium fights is Orks is precisely bceause they are the most successful race in the galaxy.

Nabterayl
06-17-2010, 01:39 AM
Well, no surprise that, really. Orks were around in their trillions before mankind invented agriculture, and their collective psychic emanations didn't give birth to any of the Ruinous Powers. Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle are the creations of human souls; it only makes sense that humanity would be uniquely susceptible to their temptations.

Connjurus
06-17-2010, 02:29 AM
Well, no surprise that, really. Orks were around in their trillions before mankind invented agriculture, and their collective psychic emanations didn't give birth to any of the Ruinous Powers. Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle are the creations of human souls; it only makes sense that humanity would be uniquely susceptible to their temptations.

Not just humans, though - the Realms of Chaos sourcebook states "all mortals", and humans are definitely not the only mortal race in 40k. The only thing that would even remotely point to Chaos as being a human invention is the fact that the Gods didn't attain FULL consciousness until around the Middle Ages, but they'd been awakening for tens of thousands of years before that. So, while humans definitely contributed, lots of other races did as well.

And Orks can strongly resist the forces of Chaos, yes, but that's because, like Melissia pointed out, of the WAAAAGH. But I remember the pictures of those Nurgle Orkz in the Daemonhunters codex, so it is definitely possible.

But it was just one point of many, all leading to the fact that Chaos is the greatest threat to the Imperium. Warpstorms can isolate a planet for years or decades, sometimes even whole systems. Daemonic invasions occur without reason - like the story in the 5th edition WH40k rulebook. Nurgle just felt like trying out a new disease, then Khorne got in on it, and then Slaanesh did to, which pissed off Khorne, so then everyone was fighting while Tzeentch sat in a corner muttering "Goood....gooooooooood...." like Emperor Palpatine.

Also, Chaos is most assuredly unpredictable. You can't know that your neighbor next door owes his entire success in the Grox-hide business because he gave his ninth child to Tzeentch, or that Mrs. Owens down the lane is actually a Champion of Slaanesh. Just like you don't know when, or if, or why some planet, system, or subsector is going to gain just the tiniest flicker of attention from a Chaos God for but a moment. You don't know when that Primaris Psyker is going to go critical and turn into a warp portal.

The only thing that you can predict is that when Chaos comes, things are destroyed.

Connjurus
06-17-2010, 02:31 AM
Also, Orks fight each other even more often than Chaos does. ;)

Melissia
06-17-2010, 06:21 AM
Also, Orks fight each other even more often than Chaos does. ;)

No they don't. Orks pretty much only fight eachother when there's noone else to fight, in order to ensure that they all continue to get stronger and emit spores (Orks release more spores during death than the rest of their life combined, unless they're particularly long-lived). I know of several stories where Chaos was fighting itself even as it was fighting the enemy-- nurgilte cultists attacking slaaneshi cultists in one of the Cain short stories come to mind (the one where Cain ran the hell away from a daemonhost). That was in the middle of a warzone against the Imperial Guard.

Orks are united in purpose-- they all want war (no matter where it is, or with whom), and they are led by two gods that are effectively two sides of the same Ork consciousness. Chaos is not united, for they are led by four separate gods whom hate eachother.


The reason that there is a special category called "Chaos Undivided" is because it is particularly special for such a worshipper to exist.

Connjurus
06-17-2010, 11:50 AM
Orks are united in purpose-- they all want war (no matter where it is, or with whom), and they are led by two gods that are effectively two sides of the same Ork consciousness.


Exactly. The only reason an Ork ever gets to be the leader of even a squad of Boyz is because he fought everyone else who wanted it, whereas, depending on the legion or cult, there is a very strict and surprisingly concise hierarchy. The Word Bearers come to mind, with all of their hosts. I do not deny that there is infighting within the forces of Chaos, but when it comes to Daemons or Chaos Space Marines, it is not as frequent as with, say, two warring Waaaghs. Also, all it takes to destabilize an Ork WAAAGH is to go for the biggest thing you see, and then the Orks are broken down into separate warring factions. With Chaos, if you kill the leader, there will be some bitter fighting between the ones who wanted the position, but they will consolidate relatively quickly.

As you pointed out, the Orks love to fight. All you need to do to defeat them is give them a good excuse to fight each other - like killing the Warboss. Then there goes the only thing holding that millions strong Mob together, and all of a sudden you have anywhere from three or four to hundreds, possibly thousands of warring Orks all fighting to see which one "iz da biggest an' da baddest an' da krumpiest". I'd compare, as you did in a previous post, although a bit more obliquely and perhaps accidentally, the Orks to a throng of Khorne Berzerkers. The one best at fighting gets to the top, but if you kill that one, then the Berzerkers suddenly attack just about everything. That's why the Dominion of Fire was ended so easily - no Berzerker, not even Kharn, is a powerful enough unifying force to replace the Daemon Prince Angron as the focal point for Khorne's rage and prowess. Once Angron was banished, the Berzerkers went Berserk, and were easy pickings. Well, relatively, anyway.

So, to wrap up this post, in pretty much every piece of literature that involved fighting Orkz that ended with the non-Ork side winning, it was because they destabilized the WAAAGH by killing the biggest Ork they saw. The momentum was halted as the Orks began to fight everything, and they were picked apart with relative ease. Basically:

Strategy to beat Orkz: Kill the biggest one.
Strategy to beat Chaos Cultists: Kill them. Usually easy pickings for the most part.
Strategy to beat Chaos Daemons: Uhm. Call in the Space Marines. The Adepta Soritas. The Grey Knights. The IG. Everything. And pray.
Strategy to beat Chaos Space Marines: Pretty much the same thing above.
Strategy to beat a true Chaos Black Crusade involving all of those above: Hope you're lucky and call in and spend everything you've got.

/end

Faultie
06-17-2010, 11:58 AM
I appreciate the enthusiastic support of your chaotic cause, Connjurus, but you're simultaneously overselling Chaos and underselling the Orks. Further, for all your talk of the chaos gods in the warp, it's well understood that Gork/Mork are juggernauts and could squash Khorne & Co. if they had half a mind to (or even half a mind at all, which I'm not sure if any Ork has, god or nay). Waaaaghs don't generally fight for long, either, but merge and grow stronger, whereas a growing warhost of Chaos contains ever more ambitious Arch- and Under- Villains, waiting for their turn to claim glory for their god and cause and...etc.

Personally, I think Kroot are the biggest threat. Why? Dinosaurs. Also, innate understanding of, and imperviousness to, the Warp, Tyranid-like evolutionary ability, and also Dinosaurs.

Connjurus
06-17-2010, 12:11 PM
Further, for all your talk of the chaos gods in the warp, it's well understood that Gork/Mork are juggernauts and could squash Khorne & Co.

Actually, in the realms of Chaos sourcebook, it says that the four Chaos Gods are the most powerful forces in the Warp. They're certainly the most active.

Faultie
06-17-2010, 12:16 PM
Actually, in the realms of Chaos sourcebook, it says that the four Chaos Gods are the most powerful forces in the Warp. They're certainly the most active.
And in Codex: Orkz, it says that Gork and Mork are "divine powerhouses" that "simply shrug off the attacks of other gods with a raucous laugh". They are so strong, they can't be defeated.

Connjurus
06-17-2010, 12:20 PM
Actually, in the realms of Chaos sourcebook, it says that the four Chaos Gods are the most powerful forces in the Warp. They're certainly the most active.

Edit: They're also the only ones known to be powerful enough to manifest and send forth legions of creatures from Warpspace while still having enough power to play the Great Game without even really noticing what the little motes of themselves are doing in Realspace.

Also, all that it says of Gork and Mork is that they can never truly be vanquished. Sounds like the Chaos Gods to me. Seems like most of the Eldar gods weren't on the same level of power as Gork and Mork or the Ruinous Powers. So the power level of Warp Entities would be Eldar Gods -> Gork/Mork -> Gods of Chaos.

The Ork gods also don't create tears in the fabric of space or time itself the way the Chaos Gods frequently do, and if they were powerful enough to kill all the other Warp entities, I'm sure they would if they were a manifestation of the Ork's psyche - Orks love to fight, so Gork and Mork would as well. And since the Chaos Gods haven't destroyed them yet, that means one of two things:

They're stalemated.

or

Gork and Mork don't register enough of a threat for the Chaos Gods to include them in the Great Game.

I'm betting on the latter, because if the Four Powers did fight Gork and Mork, I'm sure we'd hear about it a lot.

Faultie
06-17-2010, 12:26 PM
Gork and Mork laugh off attacks from other gods. That's "all it says" in the Ork book. Simply making tears in the fabric of space isn't an expression of how powerful a god is, but merely how they express their power. The Eye of Terror is from the birth of Slaanesh. The Maelstrom is a naturally occurring phenomenon. Since Chaos gods prey on humans' souls (because they're delicious), then you see manifestation in humans as well (ones with psychic potential, anyway).

Gork & Mork, on the other hand, express their will in other ways, mostly via Waaaghs, Oddboyz, and Gargants. Heck, the Foot of Gork (or maybe Mork) has been known to manifest itself and squish Titans whole! They are also known to favor certain Ork bosses and otherwise, who are known to manifest the traits of brutal kunnin' (or kunnin' brutality).

A stalemate is the most likely. However, I guess I could take your own view and swap it around on you: the Chaos gods don't register as a threat to Gork & Mork, and that's why they haven't squished them. The fights not worth fightin'. I posit that Gork & Mork are waiting for the Chaos gods to get strong enough to put up a good struggle. Otherwise, there's no fun in it.

Connjurus
06-17-2010, 12:30 PM
Gork and Mork laugh off attacks from other gods. That's "all it says" in the Ork book.

Nice try on the second theory, though.

Why do we hear so much about the Gods of Chaos and so little about Gork and Mork, then? We have one source that claims the Ork gods to be the most powerful, when all other sources, from books, to other games, to other codices pointing to the Chaos Gods being the most powerful.

In a case like this, I'd go with the multiple sources, but, as is the case with quite a few pieces of GW lore, I believe this particular question was left unanswered so as to be left up to personal interpretation and bias. Since I find the concept of Man versus His Inner Darkness to be more enthralling than Man versus Outside Threat, I prefer to believe the Gods of Chaos are more powerful. If you like Orkz more, then by all means, go with Gork and Mork. Power in the Warp does ebb and flow.

Faultie
06-17-2010, 12:39 PM
In a case like this, I'd go with the multiple sources, but, as is the case with quite a few pieces of GW lore, I believe this particular question was left unanswered so as to be left up to personal interpretation and bias. Since I find the concept of Man versus His Inner Darkness to be more enthralling than Man versus Outside Threat, I prefer to believe the Gods of Chaos are more powerful. If you like Orkz more, then by all means, go with Gork and Mork. Power in the Warp does ebb and flow.I believe this is the best answer, really, in terms of warp power. It is poorly understood by humans, and GW makes a good point to obfuscate and contradict most of their sources using other sources. I'm indifferent to Orkz vs. Marines(w/ spikes) debate. I do like to imagine the warp as a vast realm where multiple super-powerful gods can exist, and have their own regions that the others stay out of, etc.

Doesn't matter, though, because the Kroot have Dinosaurs. Boom.

Connjurus
06-17-2010, 12:41 PM
I believe this is the best answer, really, in terms of warp power. It is poorly understood by humans, and GW makes a good point to obfuscate and contradict most of their sources using other sources. I'm indifferent to Orkz vs. Marines(+Spike) debate. I do like the warp as a vast realm where multiple super-powerful gods can exist, and have their own regions that the others stay out of, etc.

Doesn't matter, though, because the Kroot have Dinosaurs. Boom.

Yeah, well, uh...Chaos has flying Sting Rays!

And raptor things with crab claws and boobs and scorpion tails. WIth hooves. So not so much raptors. Uhm..

Damn it.

Nabterayl
06-17-2010, 01:08 PM
Also, Chaos is most assuredly unpredictable. You can't know that your neighbor next door owes his entire success in the Grox-hide business because he gave his ninth child to Tzeentch, or that Mrs. Owens down the lane is actually a Champion of Slaanesh. Just like you don't know when, or if, or why some planet, system, or subsector is going to gain just the tiniest flicker of attention from a Chaos God for but a moment. You don't know when that Primaris Psyker is going to go critical and turn into a warp portal.
There is that aspect of it, yes, but I think that's more a question of being hard to detect or track (for a variety of reasons, not least of which is the sheer scale of the Ruinous Powers) than of being inherently unpredictable. Khorne will never surprise you by not being angry. Slaanesh will never surprise you by being selfless. Tzeentch will never surprise you by promoting despair. Nurgle will never surprise you by promoting happiness through health. You always know exactly what they want to do; what you don't know is how they're going to go about doing it.

Connjurus
06-17-2010, 04:48 PM
Tzeentch will never surprise you by promoting despair. .


It won't be despair for the people that worshipped him. Most of the time. But it will cause despair in Tzeentch's foes.

Tzeentch WILL surprise you the most out of the other three because that's what he's about. Trickery, deception, subterfuge, Machiavellian plots of staggering complexity that, once they are finally unveiled for what they truly are, there's nothing that you can really do about it - especially when you find out that the only reason that Tzeentch's plan was able to come to fruition was because of some ice cream cone you bought thirteen years, four months, five days, and three minutes ago.

So yeah. Tzeentch isn't really, well, unsurprising.

Nabterayl
06-17-2010, 05:04 PM
So yeah. Tzeentch isn't really, well, unsurprising.
He'll surprise you, yes. But he'll never surprise you by not being the Chaos god of hope and change. Within his vast but limited toolkit, Tzeentch can be endlessly surprising. But his toolkit is still limited. Not even the Changer of the Ways is totally mutable.

It has always seemed to me that the Ruinous Powers are not the gods of "chaos" in the sense that they are the complete opposite of all things ordered. Certain things about them are fixed - their personalities, their preferences, their portfolios, their nature as entities of the Warp rather than entities of the material plane, even their names. A "true" instantiation of chaos would not have such fixed data points. The better way to think about it, I think, is to conceive of the Ruinous Powers as the gods of "chaos" in the sense that they are the opposite of a particular order - roughly, the universe as we know it. Slaanesh would be perfectly happy to replace that order with his and her own brand of order, for instance. Even Tzeentch has certain realities that he doesn't ever seem to want to come to pass - he'll never change the ways such that he himself doesn't exist, for instance, or such that sorcery doesn't exist, or such that Nurgle defeats him, etc. Tzeentchian "order" is admittedly way more chaotic than any human mind could handle, but even it isn't totally chaotic.

Connjurus
06-17-2010, 05:42 PM
I agree with you on the nature of the Gods themselves, but as they are so vast, even the ones that aren't Tzeentch...well, maybe not Khorne, but Nurgle and Slaanesh are capable of surprise. Definitely not as much as Tzeentch, but they still have it. As Gods, for Gods they undoubtedly are, their intelligences are so vast as for their motives and methods to be ineffable, unknowable. And to be unknowable is to be surprising.

As players, studying the lore from the outside, having access to all of the information that we have, most of the Gods seem rather plain. But living in the universe of 40k, and having access to even the tiniest tidbit? Pretty sure we'd be surprised by them on a regular basis.

thelonegrif
06-24-2010, 02:34 PM
Orks not a chance they are too concerned with fighting (whether it be in or out) to actually try and conquer the galaxy sure one boss can unite them but that never last for very long (most of the time he gets waxed by a hero of the Impeirium or runs away and regroups)
Eldar and Tau ones race is too busy dying and trying to clean up their mess from when they ran the galaxy (dark eldar ans slaanesh) or delve into their decadence (from a Dark Eldars perspective) The Tau are too small and not growing fast enough to pose any real threat
Chaos pretty much the same story with the Eldar half the race is puritan based the other half lives for indulgence
Necorns though they may have a **** ton of undead robots running around enough las cannon shots will reduce them to nothing thier resources aren't as easily replenished
on a side note to chaos they need the Impeirium to be the way it is other wise their own in fighting will continue
(ref Daemons Codex)

im gonna have to go with nids on this one simply based on the fact that they are a united front in a sense and all they need is biomass to carry on and they are winning a war of attrition against orks come on now the hive mind is interconnected to every hive fleet (ref 5th ed nids dex) and they are an ever evolving and learning race its just a matter of time they had to leave their galaxy for some reason and im pretty sure it not because the sentient races there discovered nid repellent

Melissia
06-24-2010, 02:44 PM
They aren't winning a war of attrition with Orks. We don't know who's winning.

BuFFo
06-24-2010, 02:44 PM
I didn't even read the OP or the other options.

I just went in and voted Tyranids.

There is no other answer.

thelonegrif
06-24-2010, 02:58 PM
They aren't winning a war of attrition with Orks. We don't know who's winning.

i retract my statement about tipping in their favor they won that war in the octarius sector against the ork refer to pages 30 and 31 of the nids 5th ed dex they killed the boss infighting took place because of the power vacuum soon that took its tool and as such the orks were divided and devoured

Nabterayl
06-24-2010, 03:09 PM
i retract my statement about tipping in their favor they won that war in the octarius sector against the ork refer to pages 30 and 31 of the nids 5th ed dex they killed the boss infighting took place because of the power vacuum soon that took its tool and as such the orks were divided and devoured
On Ghorala, yes. The tyranid codex doesn't say who is winning the war for the Empire of Octarius itself - last we hear, the tyranids have rampaged their way to Octarius itself, where the empire has prepared, and the two sides are duking it out on Octarius.

thelonegrif
06-24-2010, 03:16 PM
went back and re read and i stand corrected but to thrive in a war is to be gaining the upper hand (ex the war on insurgents is thriving in Iraq we have the upper hand there while not so much so in Afghanistan the General running the show out there just got canned)

Melissia
06-24-2010, 03:16 PM
Which is precisely what a stalemate is!

You forget, Orks thrive in war. That's part of their BIOLOGY.

thelonegrif
06-26-2010, 03:01 PM
all im gonna say is the from mine and a few others view point while yes the orcs my thrive in war as it is apart of their "psychology" the nids learned to adept and over come orks however do not so im gonna go ahead and say the nids have it clinched

Melissia
06-26-2010, 03:32 PM
all im gonna say is the from mine and a few others view point while yes the orcs my thrive in war as it is apart of their "psychology" the nids learn to adept and over come orks however do not so im gonna go ahead and say the nids have it clinched

Orks adapt faster than 'nids, through technology.

Connjurus
06-26-2010, 04:08 PM
I don't think either side adapts faster, they just adapt differently.

Lordgimpet
06-26-2010, 11:37 PM
The Imperium is it's own downfall, other races will just capitalise and move in or be involved somehow in being that "straw that's breaks its back"

from a galactic perspective..

Eldar. no they are all about self preservation and only involve themselves in conflict that forwards that cause, or they are defending something

Chaos have potential but may come unstuck should some one like nids or necron as the gods though powerful need souls to sustain them with out that they slowly starve.

Orks are a definite possibility however I kind of view them like high school bullies
a threat until the ringleader is taken down then they divide and scatter only to reform somewhere else and start again. but its just a matter of time for a waargh to be big enough and last long enough.

Tau at this stage i don't believe the greater good being that effective at galactic domination.

Tyranids in my opinion pose the biggest threat. its slow like a cancer. in a fashon orks are similar with their spores left behind that can be a future issue. with the nids its not clear how much of the fleet or fleets are to come and where from, sure they need biomass even then their assaults are purely based on the resistance they encounter so one planet might cause an issue another is a free feed. once they done they move on

Necrons are interesting. as from what I've read of my friends codex they operate in a cycle. so that every X number of years they rise up harvest to a point sleep rinse repeat. were this the case I actually feel Tau though decimated would be spared purely as the fact the lack any psychic potential an are not a threat to the C'Tan and allowed to survive to grow to the next harvest

mind you my friend had an interesting theory with his necrons, he told me there is a C'Tan who left the galaxy and preferred to toy with biological over mechanical. and
thinks that the Nids are that C'Tans creation.. I wish i could remember more as he made some valid points.

thelonegrif
06-27-2010, 08:18 AM
Orks adapt faster than 'nids, through technology.

lol most of their tec is looted from the impierum so unless this happens http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy235/ncgriffin_27/40kOrks.jpg the orks are doneski

Connjurus
06-27-2010, 03:46 PM
Uhh...no...most of their tech isn't looted from any one source. They loot anything they can because they can, but their Mek Boyz are more than capable of making their own weaponry and vehicles.

thelonegrif
06-27-2010, 04:10 PM
well i dont see any looted wave serpents or mek boys in crisis suits or skimmer bodies so please show me what other race they would loot from besides humans give me some refferences

AirHorse
06-27-2010, 04:21 PM
Well eldar technology generally incorporates their psychic abilities so not too surprising at lack of eldar technology, though no reason to not see a chasis banged into some weird wagon.

Tau tech is perfectly lootable and i think the only reason we dont see any evidence of it is because the tau empire is tiny compared to imperial. Theres no reason why there couldnt be any looted crisis suits tbh.

Melissia
06-27-2010, 04:47 PM
Actually I have seen looted falcons. They put tracks on them because the Orks couldn't manage to get the hover thing working, and added a few cannons because the Eldar cannons weren't properly Orky enough.

thelonegrif
06-27-2010, 04:59 PM
i said references not what you have seen some jerry with a half*** imagination do

Melissia
06-27-2010, 06:04 PM
My reference (5th Edition Codex: Orks) says Orks, especially of the Deff Skullz clan, loot and steal everything they can get their hands on. I think that trumps your argument which has no references saying otherwise.

thelonegrif
06-27-2010, 06:10 PM
well melissia you should read further cause it doesnt mention other races only from their fellow orks read further on bootlaces ammunition sounds pretty terran to me as tau use energy cells and eldar use solid core disc and i dont think either races have boot laces
in fact ill go further for the most part orks used self propelled slug munitions as their stable munitions no eldar tec no tau tec no necron maybe kroot maybe before the tau hooked em up with better munitions but still no refference to that anyhting else you wanna throw my way

Melissia
06-27-2010, 06:29 PM
well melissia you should read further cause it doesnt mention other races

It doesn't have to. If they can get their hands on an Eldar grav tank, you can bet your *** off they'll try and steal and loot it, even if it's no longer recognizable after they're done with it (to make it properly orky, see?). Why are you so hell-bent against the idea of Orks looting everything they see, when it's such a core concept for the race?

AirHorse
06-27-2010, 06:35 PM
Indeed, I dont understand why you must have a citation for this :/ This is 40k, half the universe is deliberately vague!

Melissia
06-27-2010, 06:38 PM
*shrug* Asking for citations is fine, but arguing that Orks don't loot other races' tech is, quite frankly, idiotic. There's no evidence to support such a claim.


There is no official model for the looted tank. Want to know why this is? Because, by its very definition, the looted tank is LOOTED!

thelonegrif
06-27-2010, 06:50 PM
i ask for citations cause i am a puritan i go with what these guys write and honestly after the first row we had i just wanted to see how far i could push you for my own entertainment but the fact you were this defensive already tells me alot about you and how much you really know well i and others have had our laughs and thanks for the entertainment and the arguements

Melissia
06-27-2010, 07:01 PM
i ask for citations cause i am a puritan i go with what these guys write and honestly after the first row we had i just wanted to see how far i could push you for my own entertainment but the fact you were this defensive already tells me alot about you and how much you really know well i and others have had our laughs and thanks for the entertainment and the arguements

The term "arguement"[sic] is appropriate, because it certainly fails as an actual argument. Your so-called "arguement" consists of pedantry and denial in the face of the fluff. Where exactly do you get the idea that Orks do not loot despite the fact that the fluff says otherwise, as I have shown with two citations already? Nevermind the various armies on the GW site showing heavily converted or custom-built tanks with parts taken (IE looted) from other tanks. They have two units built specifically around the idea (lootaboyz, looted tanks), and indeed, the lootaboyz fluff entry itself proves your argument wrong-- as if that fact were ever in doubt.

Orks loot. Deal with it. You're not being a puritan, you're just being in denial of fact.

Lane
06-27-2010, 07:23 PM
IMHO the bigest threat to the Imperium is - themselves.

Connjurus
06-27-2010, 07:26 PM
I'm with Melissia, here. The Orkz loot by their nature, but nowhere in their nature does some little banded link of Ork DNA scream "ONLY DA 'UMIEZ STUFF". They take any gun that they can get to work. If it can't work, they make it so that it can. I'm sure that fancy-schmancy Ion Cannon that Mek Boy sees on that flaming wreck of a Hammerhead would make an appropriately Orky Shokk-Attack gun, after all.

Freefall945
06-28-2010, 06:52 AM
Eldar Tech is often heavily reliant on psychic interface to operate, but this isn't always the case.

The third edition Ork Codex allowed a player to actually field tanks from other codexes. They had a short list of imperial and space marine tanks which were officially legal, but encouraged gamers to loot and field any vehicle their opponent would let them get away with. Falcons were a popular choice.

Speaking of falcons, when Games Workshop released the Last Chancers in 3rd, you might remember a little fellow called Grease Monkey, whose special ability was to hijack vehicles. There was a fluff story in the white dwarf they were released with which specifically mentioned him hijacking the person grav tank of an Eldar Ambassador from Iyanden, and crashing it on a joy ride. It follows that if humans can hijack Eldar Tech, surely Orcs can follow.

Traditionally orks loot anything mechanical they can get their hands on - and even sometimes, things that aren't mechanical! (http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-89322-1231918262.jpg)

eldargal
06-28-2010, 08:43 AM
I voted Eldar. You might think they post a limited threat, but they are consummate manipulators. Ork Waaghs and Tyranid Hive Fleets are redirected when they choose. If they Eldar as a species decided the Imperium as a whole at to end NOW, they could spark dozens (or hundreds) of major Waaaaghs! and possibly attacks by everyone from 'nids to Tau.
Not to mention the whole 'most advanced' technology thing. The Craftworld Altansar is very close to Terra and some others are within Imperial space which suggests they can avoid detection by the forces of the Imperium. All kinds of nastiness could be done to undermine the Imperium's war efforts at the worst possible times, if the Eldar were minded to do so.
To sum up, Eldar could wage a horrific 'Cold-to-luke-warm war' against the Imperium and bring it crumbling down, if they choose to do so.;)

Lucidum
07-09-2010, 10:21 PM
Well let's see....Eldar are going extinct, Dark Eldar are going the way of the squats if the codex and new minis don't totally rule, Necrons are supposedly just beginning to awaken, Tau are too friendly to be that serious a threat, Orks just like war, doesn't matter with whom, so they're kinda...well...they'll kill anyone, imperial or otherwise. Chaos can't exist without the rest of mankind alive, so neither CSM or daemons will ever truly attempt to wipe out all of humanity. I'd say the worst threat to mankind (other than themselves) is Tyranids, as they're not only without number, but they wish to destroy all life everywhere as we know it in order to fuel their hive fleets.

Connjurus
07-09-2010, 10:36 PM
Of course Chaos can exist without humanity. Read the Realms of Chaos sourcebook.

Also, DAEMONS are without number. Tyranids are nearly limitless. A subtle but important difference. ;)

Lucidum
07-10-2010, 02:35 AM
Of course Chaos can exist without humanity. Read the Realms of Chaos sourcebook.

Also, DAEMONS are without number. Tyranids are nearly limitless. A subtle but important difference. ;)

Tyranids had the "without number" rule, so I give it to them >.>

And according to the MUCH MORE RECENT Codex CSM and Codex Chaos Daemons, the majority of warp energy, the turmoil and chaos that becomes sentient and therefore daemons, chaos gods, and inextricably the warp itself, was created and is fuelled by the thoughts and emotions of sentient beings, and the chaos gods (except for slaanesh) are directly based upon HUMAN emotions, and need such emotions to exist. If they wiped out humanity through wiping out the imperium, they would cease to be. The information regarding the nature of the warp is further fleshed out in the Necron codex, as it states that only after the old ones created many sentient and psychic races did the warp become chaos.

Melissia
07-10-2010, 09:44 AM
Humans are sentient beings, but not all sentient beings are humans.

Very important note there. There have been plenty of sentient beings other than humans in the millions of years since the galaxy was formed. No, the reason that they are based off of human emotions right now is because humans are dominant right now. Back when the Eldar were dominant, they were likely based off of Eldar emotions. And so on.

Chaos is a greater threat from within than from without.

Lucidum
07-10-2010, 11:45 AM
Humans are sentient beings, but not all sentient beings are humans.

Very important note there. There have been plenty of sentient beings other than humans in the millions of years since the galaxy was formed. No, the reason that they are based off of human emotions right now is because humans are dominant right now. Back when the Eldar were dominant, they were likely based off of Eldar emotions. And so on.

Chaos is a greater threat from within than from without.

See, I think you might be wrong there. Khorne is always described as being the oldest of the gods, being born when humanity was young and out of their innate rage and warlike nature. Slaanesh is the only one who I've ever heard mentioned as having any connection whatsoever to the Eldar (other than Nurgle keeping Isha prisoner as his test subject). I mean, sure, it makes sense that it could be only because humans are so dominant and numerous right now, but the ruinous powers are ancient beings dating back to (at least) the end of the war between the old ones and C'tan, but much of the background implies that the gods only took true form and sentience once humanity was borne, so perhaps they were merely...fuelled at first by the thoughts and emotions of lesser races, but then humanity's thoughts and emotions were much more numerous and powerful.

On that last part I'll agree with you though, Chaos is definitely more of a threat from within, that temptation of giving in to the dark side of human nature, than it is from without.

Connjurus
07-10-2010, 12:31 PM
The Gods of Chaos feed on the emotions of all living beings, not just humans. It says so in every piece of fluff out there.

Also, yes, Chaos is the most complete threat to the Imperium. From within, cultists, single individuals, renegade Space marines.

From without, Daemons, the Traitor Legions, and Xenos races that have fallen to Chaos.

Lanparth
07-13-2010, 03:53 AM
They aren't winning a war of attrition with Orks. We don't know who's winning.

:(

We do.

The new Tyranids Codex is implying though the war isn't over, the Orks are starting to lose to Hive Fleet Leviathan. To be honest I wish GW would cut the whole "Nids can only be stopped by Spess Marines" thing out. I really do.

I really wish they had the Orks outdo Leviathan, if for no other reason then to give Orks more street cred to the average gamer. >.>

Pendragon38
07-13-2010, 11:38 AM
Take the 1,000 Sm limit off for the Chapter's then we'll see how comes out on top! All the Sm should go big or go home.......they should start taking some of Mars weapons and laying waste to all.....CSM.....ORKS.....NIDS.......CRONS.......TA U......ELDAR.......DARK ELDAR........and any one else

Connjurus
07-13-2010, 12:06 PM
Take the 1,000 Sm limit off for the Chapter's then we'll see how comes out on top! All the Sm should go big or go home.......they should start taking some of Mars weapons and laying waste to all.....CSM.....ORKS.....NIDS.......CRONS.......TA U......ELDAR.......DARK ELDAR........and any one else

lolwut

Leez
07-13-2010, 03:15 PM
Hard to vote when the number one threat to the Imperium of Man isn't on the list.

Write-in vote for: Imperium of Man.

Pendragon38
07-13-2010, 05:04 PM
lolwut

Read some of the old fluff on space marines and there weapons

Connjurus
07-13-2010, 06:21 PM
I know the old fluff, but I'm wondering what makes you think with those weapons they'd be able to defeat, oh, I don't know, Chaos Space Marines with the same technology, greater numbers, and the backing of the Dark Gods?

Pendragon38
07-13-2010, 08:47 PM
they need the Sm for alot of reason like gene-seeds and new tech! Because lets face it GODS fear advancement of there followers so CSM get the hand me downs or would you like me to compare them to crows.....always looking for the freebe

Mr.MoreTanks
07-27-2010, 03:32 PM
Clearly it is the demons. Demons can control the leaders of the imperium and taint them. Hello, Horus anyone?

If the demons wanted to they could simply overwhelm the universe, the dark gods consider this realm and all of the wars a simple game, they would beat necorns beacuse of all their warp stuff and crons are anti warp

as for the bugs, demons are the warp and you CAN NOT absorb and use warp material as bio material as demons just disapear when they die, thus the tyranids will consume themselves trying to fight them.

eldar already lost to chaos, even the dark eldar fear slaanesh

Orks would be a good fight but eventually die to the trickery sorcery of tzeentch

Tau? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA........oh, man.... but seriously come on

and as for the imperium, there are only so many grey knights.....

musical-fool
07-29-2010, 02:24 AM
If indeed the nids are running from something/someone in their own galaxy then I would say that that would be the biggest threat to the Galaxy. However, there are too many ifs, buts and uncertainties.

I think that Chaos is the largest threat to the Imperium simply because there are Choas cults all over the Imperium and hive cities. Chaos still has the potential to throw the Imperium into another civil war and thus potentially destroying itself in the pocess, Badab War anyone?

ChaosLord127
07-29-2010, 01:10 PM
I believe that it is pretty hard to say. It depends on how each race effects each other.

If circumstances don't change, it would be chaos for sure. It has the power to corrupt and destroy the Imperium from the inside while hurting it pretty badly from the outside (or at least they could before the new fluff turned them into space pirates). If they took Cadia, or used the Planet Killer ship that Abaddon has on it, the eye of terror could possibly expand and envelop the rest of the galaxy, in which case, everything would be at the mercy of the daemons and the gods.

HOWEVER, we need to take the pylons that are on Cadia into consideration. If the Necrons built/uncovered more of these pylons, they could hypothetically close off the eye of terror, making it much more difficult for chaos to take root in the galaxy. In addition, the necrons don't seem to really "die" unless their bodies are completely obliterated, and it seems that the only way to truly kill them is basically vaporize them or trap them in the warp so that the demons can eat their souls (ie the Necron Lord on Medusa V).

In the other case, you have the Tyranids, who seem to continue coming without number, and the only way to stop them is to obliterate a planet right as they begin to consume it after the fighting is done. Sure, it works, and the Imperium has millions and millions of planets, but still, they'll run out eventually, especially with how many planets the Tyranids can destroy before the Imperium can react.

Orks aren't a threat, unless they unite, which probably won't happen, and will definitely not happen if Yarrick ever catches up with and kills Ghazkull.

Eldar and Dark Eldar simply don't have the numbers to take on the Imperium, and they never will. They might hurt it some, but they won't be able to destroy it or damage it significantly before anyone else does.

Tau have the technology and the skill to definitely do some damage, but, like the eldar, they just don't have the numbers to do anything really to the Imperium, as shown by the Damocles Crusade, the Tau could easily be crushed by the Imperium.

Connjurus
07-29-2010, 04:02 PM
They did take Cadia. All that's stopping them from leaving is an Imperial Blockade. Just you wait until it's broken. ;)