Contemptor thought...

[Thornblood]

Whilst I love the model so much, and indeed am a massive fan of Forge World

It has MK 7 legs. But its supposed to be around pre heresy or even during heresy...

IF anyone can clear that up that would be nice.

Either way its still on my wishlist.

[MaltonNecromancer]

Pre-heresy technology is far superior to "current", 41st Millenium technology. Humanity has gone backwards, not forwards. When an Imperial citizen talks about "The dark Age of Technology", they're talking about a stage in human history that looks like the reboot of Star Trek. In fact, I grew up assuming Star Trek and 40K were in the same canon, and that as humanity regressed, as soon as the Space Marine project was ready, they simply exterminated races like the Klingons et al. (I always love the thought of a cryogenically suspended Captain Picard waking up to discover what had happene to the future of his people and just weeping.)

But back on topic, yeah, the Contemptor is significantly more advanced than a regular Dreadnought - the technology to build more has been lost. Given that Mark 7 was designed just after the Heresy, it makes sense they would use the most sophisticated armour designs available to them at the time. Noting that Mark 7 is the last officially adopted design (as Mark 8 still hasn't gone into mass production, despite being ready for about 10,000 years), that should give you some idea of the pace of technological development in the Imperium.

Still, that's fascist states for you.

[DrLove42]

The imperium doesn't trust technology, without a massive religious ceremony to make sure its holy.

The launch of a new Rhino demands consecration and sacrifice's in the emperors name...a new titan practically demands the sacrifice of a million virgins on its hull.

[Thornblood]

Ok then. Thanks.

So they discovered MK7 legs and used them on the contemptor. It then took them a long time to introduce them to marines. That bit Im fine with too. But somewhere along the line they lost the concept of knees on dreadnoughts. Like, knees are still around and in use in the foot soldiers. Previously I just accepted that this was the way things are but the contemptor has me thinking about knees.

Also, I figure the MK8 armour hasnt been sanctioned because essentially its just a collar, and sometimes an exhaust vent in the middle of the chest (because collars use alot of energy). It dosnt seem like a fully fledged varient of armour yet.

Can we file the shoulder pads with the high rims (like the deathwatch ones) as Mark 8 too?

[MaltonNecromancer]

It's not so much that marines forgot about knees. Probably just that knee plating was far more difficult to produce, as well as costing a lot more (that armour doesn't come free!)

Do remember that there isn't an objective "truth" here; aside from the fact that the Forge World designers liked the look of the knee pads and went with them:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DependingOnTheWriter

As far as anything regarding the "truth", your best bet for a reliable, non-story based objective "truth" is probably to be found in the "Rites of Battle" sourcebook for the Deathwatch RPG; there's about five pages of detail on the history and differences between the various marks of marine power armour. It'll all be ignored or adapted by the next writer to come along, who will then be ignored by the one after him.

According to Rites of Battle, the difference bwteen mks 7 and 8 isn't just the gorget (collar); it's primarily to do with the way the armour plates interlock and move around each other; it's less cosmetic stuff like rimmed pads (which primarily denote Artificer workmanship), and more to do with the mechanisms beneath (in Deathwatch, it weighs 10kg more and offer a slight armour bonus to the torso section - AP 11 rather than 10). Plus mk 8 armour's just better than mk 7 for leadership (+5 to Command tests, because marines are so used to seeing it on sergeants and the like).

[Kawauso]

Just getting my 2 cents in here...but don't regular dreadnaughts -have- knees? I always assumed that's what the cylindrical hinge behind the plating on their legs was. :P

The contemptor just has more pronounced arms/legs...it's essentially a giant suit of permanent terminator armour. Somewhere between power armour and a titan.

[Lerra]

I'd hope the current dreadnought have knees, otherwise I'm going to have problems taking them seriously as they waddle across the field.

[Grailkeeper]

I always thought the 40k Universe was a follow on from Terminator- the Iron Men that overthrew humanity at one stage.

[Thornblood]

Sorry, to clarify, at the moment all dreadnoughts in production appear to have knee mechanisms.

What we have been discussing is that the leg armour of the contemptor dreadnought is particularly advances and articulated.

Year 40,000 dreadnoughts have a very crude plate for leg armour, essentially a big shin guard. The contemptor dreadnought has MK7 space marine armour legs, just massive ones, complete with articulated knee pads.

However. in the old games Final Liberation and Chaos Gate Dreadnoughts did waddle. In Dawn of War 1, dreadnought movement is a bit waddle like, but not so bad, however they still don't move at the knees. In Dawn of War 2 dreadnoughts get full knee movement with some very advanced posing in combat.

I think Dreadnought designers always intended them to have moving knees and the game creators made a shortcut on animation, or deliberately wanted them to be clanky.

The Contemptor looks more sophisticated overall.

[MaltonNecromancer]

I always thought the 40k Universe was a follow on from Terminator- the Iron Men that overthrew humanity at one stage.

No, because Trek has a whole set of wars before the Federation's existence, and while it's a bit of a stretch that they are against Skynet, it still all works quite nicely in the Alan Moore, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, all-fictins-coexist-in-the-same-universe sense.

I always thought the Iron Men were the Thinking Machines from Dune, and that the war against them was essentially the Butlerian Jihad (especially the Titans - the name's a little familiar, yes? :)), so in my head, the order goes: after the machine war of Terminator, eventually mankind recovers and becomes Star Trek, which eventually decays into Dune which gradually becomes 40K.

Especially considering that Dune has Navigators. And an Emperor. Who rules an Imperium.Through elite Sardaukar space marines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking_machines_%28Dune%29

[Kawauso]

Ah, 40k...set so far in the future that virtually any piece of SF fiction can be considered canon. :)

[MaltonNecromancer]

Ah, 40k...set so far in the future that virtually any piece of SF fiction can be considered canon.

New Dark Eldar are so similar to Time Lords it's not even funny. :)

[Denzark]

Right, I don't understand the problem. There are plenty of examples of 40k tech that were originally widely available and advanced but are now lost and/or rare - STCs lost, planets over-run etc.

SO clearly if this Dreadnought appears more advanced than its age belies, clearly it is in this category. Or alternately it is pure coincidence that it appears the same as personal armour - maybe the later mark dreanought legs are more advanced internally but lacking the aesthetic appeal of the ealrier elegant designs.

Either way it does not clash with fluff.

[faolan]

Or, perhaps it DOESN'T have Mk7 legs/knees. Perhaps they're just legs and knees, and Mk7 space marine armour is a totally different thing!

[Pendragon38]

Or, perhaps it DOESN'T have Mk7 legs/knees. Perhaps they're just legs and knees, and Mk7 space marine armour is a totally different thing! I can see that being a more true aspect of it. And they the used to interchange arms and legs with the robots.....they need to bring back the RT robots thouse were fun..... Off track, but the side affect was it would kill the dreadnught operator