GK 2K list against orks or CSM without draigo/paladins/psyriflemen

[Wildcard]

Hi!

First off all, i mostly play against Chaos Space Marines or Orks, and occasionally against Tau or Blood Angels
That said, I am trying to do something different with this list, that personally have done before. Usually its been all in with draigo, paladins and psyriflemen.

Now, the core idea of this list was to build army around 2 land raiders and a stormraven. So, i decided to try it out like this:


HQ: Brotherhood Champion 100pts
HQ: Brotherhood Champion 100pts
Troop:5man GKSS, no upgrades 100pts
Troop:5man GKT, Justicar with hammer, 3x terminator w/ halberd, 1x terminator w/ incinerator + hammer 205pts
Elite: 10man Purifier squad,4x purifier w/ psycannon, 4x purifier w/halberd, knight of the flame with halberd, 1x purifier with sword 375pts
Transport: Razorback w/ TL Assault cannon + psybolts 85pts
Elite: 10man Purifier squad,4x purifier w/ psycannon, 4x purifier w/halberd, knight of the flame with halberd, 1x purifier with sword 375pts
Transport: Razorback w/ TL Assault cannon + psybolts 85pts
Fast: Stormraven w/ TL Multimelta, TL Lascannon, hurricane bolters 235pts
Heavy: Land Raider 255pts
Heavy: Land Raider 255pts

Total: 2000pts


Idea is to Combat Squad both purifier squads so, that the psycannons go all into one squad plus the one with the sword to act as a meatshield, these guys would get the razorbacks. Then the other 5 purifiers would tag along with the brotherhood champ and board land raiders.

Termies would board Stormraven and go hunting high armor targets with hammers and multi melta, plus terminators could be directed towards victory point near the enemy table edge.

GKSS would stay in cover and hold objective on my end, if need be.
Then i could use the Purifiers with Champion to hunt enemy forces with land raider support.

Also the versatility of the list is that, if i need superior anti infantry, i can change the land raiders to crusaders, or even redeemers (and crab multimeltas for the same pointcost), as well as change the las cannon of the stormraven to assault cannon.

Now, the current build would give me following shots at optimum:
Up to 12"
12x str4 ap5 twin-linked

Up to 24"
32x str7 ap4 rending
8x str7 ap4 rending, twin-linked
1x str8 ap1 melta,
46x str4 ap5

Over 24"
5x str9 ap2 twin-linked
6x str5 ap4 twin-linked


Also, with all my close combat forces being inside assault vehicle, i should rather easily call the shots who would be assaulting. And because of the Champion being with the purifiers, they would all re-roll hits on the charge and have str6 if both the squad and champion used hammerhand. Also, these squads shouldn't need to actually fear enemy ICs and MCs because champ most likely would hit them first, and hit them hard, re-rolling both to-hits and to-wounds.

I think this list contains fairly good balance between heavy armor killing power, transport killing power, horde and meq control in shooting. And when it comes into melee, 15x str6 power weapon attacks from one purifier squad that re-roll hits, even on ws4, is surely going to do something when used to finish of some leftovers.

Now, terminators were meant to be 'all arounders' of this list, suitable to encounter some unexpected stuff i could come across. But the biggest issue on this list seems to be that it doesn't have that many scoring units, so, i am thinking if i should swap that one terminator squad to two GK strike squads?


So, what are your opinions gameplay and strategy wise on this list? While maintaining the core idea, what changes would you make on it? And how do you think this list would play, when compared to the "Oh, so seen! Draigowing with his petdog psyriflemans backed up by librarians sanctuary and shrouding?"

All comments and creative criticism appreciated and welcomed :)

[DarkLink]

You've got decent of shooting, but aren't good in close combat. 5 power armor guys is not an assault unit. You have too many expensive delivery systems (more than 1/3 of your points are tied up in 3 vehicles) and not enough actual bodies to deliver.


Plus, Brotherhood Champions suck. Especially when you can get a Xenos Inquisitor with grenades for cheaper.



And Driagowing is only one of several ways you can make a competitive list, and frankly not the best way either. It can be very good, but if the dice don't go you're way you have no room for recovery. It is more potent than this list, though.




On a side note, every competitive GK list will probably have multiple psyrifle dreads. I'm having trouble thinking of a list that isn't made better by a couple psyrifle dreads.

[Bard of Twilight]

Idea is to Combat Squad both purifier squads so, that the psycannons go all into one squad plus the one with the sword to act as a meatshield, these guys would get the razorbacks. Then the other 5 purifiers would tag along with the brotherhood champ and board land raiders.





Problem No1:when you combat-squad a unit, the unit's cost should be divided equally(as much as that is possible) between the 2 new"squads".Thus, you can't have a 5-men squad of Purifiers with 4 Psycannons.:)


Problem No2:Just as Darklink noted,you lack a real punch in ccb,sth that makes the brotherhood Champions, quiet useless. I suggest that you drop all the Psycannons from a Purifiers unit, give them all Halberds(that's right, no Hammers:D), stick a Brotherhood champion with them, and send them with the Storm raven to butcher a Death Star, or sth else that hinders your plans.

[Wildcard]

5 power armor guys is not an assault unit

It is 5 PA guys plus one artificer guy ;) ..anyway, they weren't meant to be killing 15 strong khorne berserkers or 15 nobs. Their role is to finish of enemy forces after torrents of fire. I mean, str6 (2x hammerhand) ini6 (from halberds) (note that my oppoenents aside from BA dont have any psychic hoods), This group delivers 15 power weapon attacks (as i stated before), hit normal units on 4+ and re-roll misses, also, they wound most orks and csms on 2+ :)


Plus, Brotherhood Champions suck

The sole role of the Champion is to act as a counter measure against enemy ICs and provide re-rolls for the unit he has joined (i am counting on that i get to charge because of heavy armor assault vehicle)


I'm having trouble thinking of a list that isn't made better by a couple psyrifle dreads.

I am not making any tournament lists, or one i am trying to grind into something super effective, in a way.. As i stated, i am not going for a 'better' list that one with 3 psyriflemen and one or two inquisitors, i am just trying to find a list, that has no named charachters, and as little as possible paladin / psyrifleman spam as possible.



Problem No1:when you combat-squad a unit, the unit's cost should be divided equally(as much as that is possible) between the 2 new"squads"

Hmm, does it say so in the "combat squad" rules? If so, i must have so completely missed that part (unintendedly)


you lack a real punch in ccb,sth that makes the brotherhood Champions, quiet useless

This is where i intend to use the units in cc only as a finishers, not to go toe to toe against dedicated full power melee specialists. Grind them down with fire, and finish them off.. Not sure how it will work though, but i am happy to try out :)

[Bard of Twilight]

Hmm, does it say so in the "combat squad" rules? If so, i must have so completely missed that part (unintendedly)





Well,it says so in the Codex:Space Marines.Since, I don't own a GK Codex, I am not totally sure about it, but it's the most logical deduction... Just check again your Codex!:)

Additionally, the problem that you'll face a lot, is that Dedicated Melee Specialists, usually have the means to get their filthy hands upon you.In these cases, if you lack a ccb specialists unit,you'll be forced to sacrifice your unit engaged in ccb.

Finally,one last thing:I notice that you have just 2 units, capable of claiming objectives,each of which is a 5-men squad.That is really risky in a 2000 pts army.In any mission, except annihilation, a cunning opponent, will wipe them out,and force your hand to go chasing him, in order to manage a draw(ok, you may win if you wipe out all his army, but this is not going to happen,usually:))


As far Annihilation Scenario is concerned, you will find that in this case ,combat-squading the purifiers, is not the best option, for each squad of them ,will give your opponent 2 kill points.I think that a good idea would be dropping the 2 razorbacks,mount the Purifiers in the Land Raiders,and either increase the number of GKSS, or buy another Squad of them.

[Wildcard]

Well, most CC specialists i encounter are ork nobs (they get eaten alive by torrents of str7 ap4), khorne berzerkers (usually 7 models with fist hidden) and on rare occasion, blood angel assault marines, in a group of 5..

Ofcourse, i could dump the terminator squad and take 2x 5man GKSS squads in instead. That would give me 1 scoring unit more, but then i would lose my jack of all trades, the terminators :P

But thanks all for the points, some seem very valid concerns, while i still remain a bit sceptic about others.. ill play a game and write down the results and compare them to your points and return to this topic after it :)

[DarkLink]

Problem No1:when you combat-squad a unit, the unit's cost should be divided equally(as much as that is possible) between the 2 new"squads".Thus, you can't have a 5-men squad of Purifiers with 4 Psycannons.:)


Completely false. In fact, in both the SM and GK codex it's explicitly stated that you can in fact pick who goes in what half, with no restrictions based on points.

[Bard of Twilight]

You're correct Darklink,again.Sorry Wildcard for causing you trouble:(.