Plasma

[Andrew283]

I was having a discusion with my mate in Physics about plasma and how scientists have just created some in a lab. It apparantly burns at 1 Trillion degrees Celcius and if it was released from its sealed vacuum chamber then it would have ignited the atmosphere destoying all life on Earth. This raised the issue in my mind... if plasma is that powerful then how can little space marines use it without killing everything. Another issue is that they are only a S7 AP2 weapon :confused: WTF yet Melta weapons are S8 AP1

[Lindargo]

I love that people can question things like Plasma tech, but have no problem believing that some Blue people called the Tau have made hoverships or that the Humans have created Super-Soldiers which travel through another universe (the Warp)!

[jimbobjeff]

Plasma isnt any specific substance, its a state of matter, specifically ionised gas, I'm sure someone better qualified can explain it better than me but different plasma's are different temperatures. Also game balance.

[Andrew283]

Plamsa is super heated

[Maria]

I love that people can question things like Plasma tech, but have no problem believing that some Blue people called the Tau have made hoverships or that the Humans have created Super-Soldiers which travel through another universe (the Warp)!


Or the fact rats are intelligent enough to make armies and wear armor, hehe ( Skaven ) :)

[Ferro]

Nonsense. Plasma doesn't have to be any particular temperature. Take any gas and remove a handful of electrons (or add a few for a negative charge) and you've got a plasma. It's simply an ionized gas. Plasma is not hot of necessity, though it certainly can be.

Neon signs, florescent lights, lightning, the aurora borealis, the corona around the sun, the solar wind itself... all plasmas. Some hot, some not, and none of them will destroy the world.

Jimbo above is absolutely correct: Plasma isn't any specific substance, it's the first state of matter (the others being solids, liquids and gas).


EDIT: "...just created some in a lab..." ROFL. Yeah, scientists just created a beer sign in a lab. Maybe you're thinking of anti-matter, or the Higgs-Boson.

[Exitus Acta Probat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_%28physics%29

Note that Plasma can range in temp to as low as near absolute zero, to higher than the sun's core.

Though we get the sense of 'heat' in our GW games, it's generally assumed that de-stabilized material will produce a 'bolt' that releases energy upon impact( producing heat as a byproduct of the process of creation/impact) in some SciFi writings (cyan bolts for hammers slammers etc etc etc..)

[Andrew283]

WTF are you talking about Ferro. Did I mention Anti-matter or any zero viscosity substance, NO!!!


Anyway, tell me how your Plasma is suppost to vaporise an enemy unless it's super heated?

[Ferro]

Silly. Don't confuse real-world science with 40k fluff. I never said the florescent lights in my house will vaporize an enemy.

I do however call BS on this statement: "It apparantly burns at 1 Trillion degrees Celcius and if it was released from its sealed vacuum chamber then it would have ignited the atmosphere destoying all life on Earth."

[Andrew283]

You confused my Super heated Plasma with silly neon light and pixy dust. aaaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhhh

[Maria]

Ok, seeing as the space marines are thousands of years in our future we can't really compare their technology to what we have now :(

[Andrew283]

No, but we can fart in their general direction!

[Xas]

My televison works with "plasma"...

and I've actually touched cold plasma in university.
hot plasma exists as well. it really depends on the device and energy quantity used.

if you want to compare nowadays technology with 40k I'd say we might be able to do something like a meltagun (high preassure, narrow plasma beam which melts the target on impact and has a relative short range) but the 40k plasma-weaponry is far out of reach (mainly due to the problem of keeping the plasma projectile together unil it hits something.)

I have my BSc in physics if that helps anyone believe this :)

[Shallowain]

I was having a discusion with my mate in Physics about plasma and how scientists have just created some in a lab. It apparantly burns at 1 Trillion degrees Celcius and if it was released from its sealed vacuum chamber then it would have ignited the atmosphere destoying all life on Earth. This raised the issue in my mind... if plasma is that powerful then how can little space marines use it without killing everything. Another issue is that they are only a S7 AP2 weapon :confused: WTF yet Melta weapons are S8 AP1

Lol, The Plasma that is created in laboratories won't burn anything. The High temperatures you are refering to are at best a few hundred million degrees and created in experimental Fusion reactors. If this plasma would be released the following would happen: almost nothing. The matter density in the plasma is so low that even the slightest conatmination with another material cool it down extremely rapidly.

The biggest danger from such a reactor is when the cooling for the superconductors fails which would cause the stored energy within them to violently react and explode. And the Plasma and/or fusion reaction would in NO WAY contribute to the damage.

Mind, this extremely hot plasma is created to artificially create a fusion reaction and the only way right now to do this is to super heat that small amount of plasma. There is now way at the present time to weaponize plasma in any meaningful way And even if someone would try it would not even be remotely similar to the depictions of 40k. No Bolt of plasma, more like a High tech flamethrower.

And by the way, you can create plasma in your kitchen in your microwave. I will not give you directions how to do that because playing with microwaves is potentially dangerous. for further info ask google.

[Aldramelech]

Taxi!

[Valdore]

No, but we can fart in their general direction!

Andrew, first off, plasma in fiction isn't necessarily what plasma is in real life. Plasma in sci-fi tends to be what you claim, superheated something or other that annihilates most things it touches. Plasma in real life however, as has been mentioned by others can be any range of substances as it is a state rather than a substance or form of energy. It may well be that the scientists you mentioned created some form of substance in a plasma state that burns at 1 trillion degrees etc. However, a friend of mine created a semi-harmless plasma in our physics laboratory for his A-Level coursework, that plasma being Ozone, toxic, but certainly not super-heated or anything.

Again, as others have mentioned, plasma is often just an ionized gas, so when they are talking about neon lights, they are speaking the truth, they work because the gasses inside are ionized, and are therefore plasma. So stop getting worked up about people answering your query incorrectly because they're not ;)


Anyhows, in response to your original question, it is possible that there is some substance that in a plasma state will burn at a low enough temperature not to ignite the atmosphere whilst still being hot enough to eat through armour. But think on this, if it is hot enough to get through power armour, what on earth is the gun made of ;) Given that the plasma is created in the gun itself.

So in conclusion, plasma in science-fiction is probably just that, fiction, and there is no way on earth that you can explain fiction like that away with science, otherwise it would be science-fact. And good luck finding that plasma I mentioned, I'm sure there'd be a lot of money in it for you :D

[BlacknightIII]

We already have a plasma weapon, its a flamethrower, not what most people have in mind but fire is a plasma. Now if we wanna get some really destructive plasma lets find a way to harness lightning. Be like the arc gun in killzone 2.

[jeffersonian000]

I use to work with plasma to assist with depositing metal layers on microchips (a process called Plasma Vapor Deposition or PVD). It's very easy to turn any gas into a plasma state, at which point you can shape a direct it using magnetic fields (which can also be use to create/sustain a plasma).

Functionally, in the real world we already use plasma as a weapon such as some types of High Explosive Anti-Tank rounds which convert mass upon impact into superheated gas via energy transfer (both kinetic and chemical).

Will we ever field something like the plasma weapons in 40k? Probably not, or at least not for a long, long time as it's easier to create Tau styled weapons with our current technology level (railguns, ion cannons, pulsed laser carbines, etc.).

As to lightning weapons, those are pretty easy, too. We use to do a similar effect in college by using a laser to ionize a path through the air and sending a stream of electrons down the path. Looks like a bolt of lightning and will blow a hole through wood as it discharges into a nearby grounded conductor.

SJ

Edit: Forgot to add that the only thing keep these cool toys from being weaponized is the power need to produce the effect; we can build Tau styled railguns now, we just need to power it from a tank-sized generator. This limits the usefulness of such a weapon. Once we solve the power issue, though, we shall see where it takes us as a future unfolds.

[TSINI]

I was having a discusion with my mate in Physics about plasma and how scientists have just created some in a lab. It apparantly burns at 1 Trillion degrees Celcius and if it was released from its sealed vacuum chamber then it would have ignited the atmosphere destoying all life on Earth. This raised the issue in my mind... if plasma is that powerful then how can little space marines use it without killing everything. Another issue is that they are only a S7 AP2 weapon :confused: WTF yet Melta weapons are S8 AP1

its been said a few times here, but yes, plasma is simply another state of matter. solid, liquid, gas, plasma.

its been used for ages, in fact plasma cuters are simply that. they use them in car workshops all the time.

the notion that "someone discovered it recently" and that "it would be the end of the world" is slight nonsense.

[Sangre]

I heard some scientists in a lab just created "solid" by cooling water, but that solid melts if it goes above 0 celsius. How can they have in warhammer guns that fire bullets made of "solid?" Surely that doesn't make sense.

[sorri]

I heard some scientists in a lab just created "solid" by cooling water, but that solid melts if it goes above 0 celsius. How can they have in warhammer guns that fire bullets made of "solid?" Surely that doesn't make sense.

Oh, that's just because of the psychic fields in play. Everything cools down in psychic fields, so it makes sure that it stays "solid", even if the temperature is warmer than 0C in the surrounding environment. :)

[Aldramelech]

Look at the big brains on you lot! lol Have you considered working for Tefal!
(Only people from the UK of a certain age will get that!)

[Skragger]

So if I'm reading this correct, the Space Marines throw a buncha chemicals in to a portable microwave and cook them off in the general direction of the foe? And every now and then their microwaves explode?

[TSINI]

So if I'm reading this correct, the Space Marines throw a buncha chemicals in to a portable microwave and cook them off in the general direction of the foe? And every now and then their microwaves explode?

if you tape a duck to the side of a microwave, fill it with tin foil, and jam a pen into the locking mechanism so it works even with the door open, you can make your own plasma cannon!!

[Valdore]

So if I'm reading this correct, the Space Marines throw a buncha chemicals in to a portable microwave and cook them off in the general direction of the foe? And every now and then their microwaves explode?

Fictional Space Marines use a fictional weapon that creates a fictional type of energy/matter/something probably in a plasma state. I don't think we can really comment on what they're supposedly using. That's the whole point of fiction, it's supposed to be interesting and unbelievable (well, most of the time, some is supposed to be believable . . .) not to be explained away by A-Level physicists, some proper physicists might have a go at creating something like that, but they have more important things on their minds, like creating weapons that work and that don't blow up when you need them most ;)

And thus continues the endless war of people trying to explain that science doesn't work in conjunction with 40k :D

[Old_Paladin]

I'm getting a kick out of reading this thread. Mostly because of several "I heard from a friend..."
It's funny that this day and age (ie. the 'information age') that people just don't look up the actual information. It really easy to find the actual reports for most university studies.

Science hasn't created plasma that hot; maybe ~10,000 degrees. The core of our sun is only 13 million, and it's a huge compressed nuclear reaction. Plasma from lightning strikes is less then 30,000 degrees and that clearly doesn't destroy the planet.

Even superhot plasma on earth couldn't destroy our planet (unless there was a massive amount of it), due to plasma-bloom phenomenon. Plasma disapates very quickly in an atmosphere. This is why ranged plasma weapons are only theorectical. The plasma 'bolt' would bloom out into a cloud of nothingness, because of friction caused by particals in the air. For a 'bolt' to travel it would need some kind of void or vacuum to travel through; or more perferably, a magnetic field to keep the bolt together.

We're more likely to see 'melta' weapons (using microwaves), then standardized plasma bolts.

[Wagzywagz]

I would imagine that the OP was referencing the plasmas made by the Z machine in early 2006. They got up to about 3.7 billion kelvin, which is still a hundred times the temperature of the center of the sun.

Again, these pose no risk to the planet but it's an interesting bit of science.


For further reading (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_machine)