Immobilizing Flat out Transports

[Dooley]

Ok so this came up over the weekend and caused a HUGE SH!T Storm!
A Transport Vehicle (A Fast Skimmer) Moved 24" in its movement phase. It was then shot at and "IMMOBILIZED" thus becoming a WREAK. The shooting player claimed the occupants inside the trasport are now all dead becasue they cant disembark from a FLAT OUT moving Transport. Needless to say there was some confusion to this. The Rule Book was consulted as was the FAQ to the Rule Book (Most recent Update).

Here are the Arguments from both sides
Shooter Side:
The Vehicle Moved Flat out in its turn reciving the 4+ cover save
The vehicle was immobilized but went flat out and is wreaked
Models Cannot Disembark from a Vehicle if it Moved Flat out
If you cant disembark from a vehicle that is wreaked you are destroyed (as per the rules)
In the FAQ it states that if a Flat out Transport is Destroyed the Occupants are destroyed as well
He Plays Eldar and it has happend to him in the past and thats how people play it

Trasport Side:
The rules state that "if the Trasnport Moved or plans to move Flat out that turn models maynot disembark"
The FAQ states that TURN refers to PLAYER TURN so the Transport did not move Flat out during the Shooters MOVEMENT PHASE and there fore the Unit inside May indeed disembark
As far as "THATS THE WAY PEOPLE PLAY IT" Just becasue thats the way people play it doesnt meen its right!

In the end the Trasnport player and the shooting player could not come to a consensus and the Transport player conceded that his unit was destroyed. Two turns later on anohter table the issue came up again! The Shooter of Table B was friends and a long time player with the shooter of table A and had the same argument. The Transporter of Table B also had the same argument as the transporter of Table A.

Both sides were able to site there sources and made there case addequatley but could not aggree on how it should work out. Was wondering if we could poll the audience on this one!

[eldargal]

I was under the impression that units inside in this situation were killed only if the vehicle was destroyed in the controlling players turn. So it moves flat out in its players turn, so they can't disembark in the same turn, but the opponents shooting phase is NOT the players movement phase (obviously) so there is nothing saying they can't disembark (forcefully) in the shooting phase.

This did come up in a recent game against one of my brothers, I destroyed a stormraven that had moved flat out, but haveing read the FAQ I assumed the occupants survived.

[Caldera02]

You guys are missing key information or are just overlooking it. In the latest rulebook FAQ, skimmers and what happens when going flat out is explained clearly.

If someone goes flat out with a fast skimmer and immoblizes on thier turn, the vehicle becomes a wreck and the occupants die in a fiery explosion! Key wording here though is thier turn, not your opponents shooting phase.

[eldargal]

That is, in fact, the faq I was referring to, I just couldn't remember the precise wording.

[Dooley]

I understand that if they Wreak during their turn (ie botch a dangerous terrain test or scatter a freindly template onto them they die) This was brought up in the arguments, but did not hold any weight or relavance to the situation.

[Dooley]

[/QUOTE]If someone goes flat out with a fast skimmer and immoblizes on thier turn, the vehicle becomes a wreck and the occupants die in a fiery explosion! Key wording here though is thier turn, not your opponents shooting phase.[/QUOTE]

I SKIMMED (no pun intended) the FAQ and could not find that! I am at work (Shhhhh) and dont have it with me, but is that the WORDING out of the FAQ? If so when I get home today I will re check it!

[Wildeybeast]

Easy. They may disembark as per normal wrecked results. Why? P70 states "passengers may not...disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved....flat out in that movement phase". Since the vehicle has been destroyed in the opponents shooting phase, it has clearly not moved flat out in that movement phase, but in the previous one, thus passengers may disembark as normal. This is further supported by the FAQ which states:

Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in the same turn as
it moved flat out what happens to any embarked
models? (p70) [my emphasis]
A: They are removed as casualties.

Again the reference is clearly limited only to the turn in which it moved. Yet more support can be found in the skimmer rules on p71, which by contrast states that a skimmer which is imbolised is wrecked if it moved "flat out in its last turn. Here the reference cleary applies to the previous turn, not the current one.

[thecactusman17]

Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in the same turn as
it moved flat out what happens to any embarked
models? (p70)
A: They are removed as casualties.

Note that "same turn" has only one definition, explained clearly in the rulebook and reemphasized in the same FAQ: Unless explicitley referred to as a "game turn," (aka both players taking their turns) a turn is only in reference to a player turn.

[Multigeneral]

Where were the judges when all this went down?

[Dooley]

Whenever we have a rules question we generally ask the class. The Judge really wasnt a 40K player so we handeld it...It still sucked though!

[Wildeybeast]

I'm surprised there wasso much debate on it, it is really clear when you check the rues carefully. The class needs more lessons on understanding and interpreting rules :D

[Tynskel]

yup.

[dannyat2460]

How many times has this rule been expalined now -.-

[Ro'jero]

Note that "same turn" has only one definition, explained clearly in the rulebook and reemphasized in the same FAQ: Unless explicitley referred to as a "game turn," (aka both players taking their turns) a turn is only in reference to a player turn.

Yes I dont think they realized that the offical Game Turns are 1 to 7. That and the players divide the turn only in essence as of top of turn 1 or such. I look at it like baseball 9 innings, but top or bottom of the turn order. Referring to which player is going...

[SeattleDV8]

Except for the fact that we are playing 40K and not baseball.

BRB FAQ

The Turn
Q: What is meant when the term ‘turn’ is used? (p9)
A: Whenever the word turn is used it means player
turn. Otherwise it will clearly state game turn. In a
complete game turn both players get a player turn.
Hence one game turn will comprise two player turns.

[Xenith]

Here's your problem:



The rules state that "if the Trasnport Moved or plans to move Flat out that turn models maynot disembark"


No it doesn't.



Anyway, even if the rule is what you state, then where is the problem? You move flat out in your turn, they cannot disembark. The transport is wrecked in your opponent's turn (being a different turn) and they can disembark.

[SeattleDV8]

Yes it does
BRB pg. 70 Fast Transport Vehicles

Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that Movement phase

[Ro'jero]

Except for the fact that we are playing 40K and not baseball.

BRB FAQ
LOL exactly, but in game turns. Tunr 1 play A goes then Player B goes. Turn 2 and so forth

[Archon Charybdis]

LOL exactly, but in game turns. Tunr 1 play A goes then Player B goes. Turn 2 and so forth

Yes, but there are two categories of turn. In one Game Turn one each player gets a discrete Player Turn. The term "turn" by default means Player Turn unless otherwise specified. That's an extremely important distinction here, where being immobilized in the same turn (i.e. player turn, not game turn) means the passengers of the vehicle can't disembark, but could if they were immobilized in the next player's turn.