First dark eldar 1000pts (two variants) help! :)

[nurglespuss]

Hi all, well I decided I wanted 1000pts of fast dark eldar, with minimal model count, but decent fire power.

List one and two are very similar, with list two losing the heat lance, splitting the scourges, and adding a cronos...

Would I be better dropping the archon and going with Baron Sathonyx do you think? to free up 200 points?

HQ
Archon
Agoniser
Ghosplate armour
Djin blade
Clone Field
2xSslyth
2xMedusae

Venom
Splinter Cannon
Grisly trophies
Night Shields

TROOPS
5xWyches
Shardnet and impaler
Haywire Grenades
Hekatrix
Agoniser

Venom
Grisly trophies
Night Shields

5xWyches
Hydra Gauntlets
Haywire Grenades
Hekatrix
Agoniser

Venom
Grisly trophies
Night Shields

FAST ATTACK
10xScourges
2 Dark Lances
Splinter cannon
Heatlance

3xReavers
Grav talon

-----------

HQ
Archon
Agoniser
Ghosplate armour
Djin blade
Clone Field
2xSslyth
2xMedusae

Venom
Splinter Cannon
Grisly trophies
Night Shields

TROOPS
5xWyches
Shardnet and impaler
Haywire Grenades
Hekatrix
Agoniser

Venom
Grisly trophies
Night Shields

5xWyches
Hydra Gauntlets
Haywire Grenades
Hekatrix
Agoniser

Venom
Grisly trophies
Night Shields

FAST ATTACK
5xScourges
Dark Lance
Splinter cannon

5xScourges
Dark Lance
Splinter cannon

HEAVY SUPPORT
Cronos parasite engine

[Ghoulio]

First off, welcome the Dark Side! The Dark Eldar book is (in my opinion) the best codex in the game currently. When you start getting some games under your belt it gets pretty addictive. With that being said you have fallen into the same trap that most people fall into and that is upgrading everything you possibly can. This army really shines when you can find the right balance of kit and bodies. Here are a couple of things to think about in regards to how your army is set up:

1) Archon + Unit: First off, you have to have at least one of each creature from the Court of the Archon, even the crappier ones. I would highly suggest that if you are just start off playing this army that you avoid taking this unit. It is much more of a "painter/collectors" unit. It CAN be decent, just takes a lot of commitment, both in points and modelling to get there.

As for the Archon himself I typically do one of two set ups:

1) Combat Drugs, Agonizer, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Shadow Field. It comes in at a reasonable 145pts and is great to put in with units that don't come with assault grenades, specifically Incubi.

2) Combat Drugs, Soul Cube, Shadow Field, Husk Blade. This build also comes in at a 145pts but serves a slightly different purpose. It's more of an assassins build that you put in units that DO have assault grenades, specifically Wyches or Bloodbrides.

2) Venom Squads: If you plan on running venom squads you will find that 5 man warrior squads with blasters works much better then just 5 wyches (and cost a lot less to boot). This little squad gives you great fire support mixed in with a bit of anti tank and is dirt cheap. If you want to run Wyches I would always either do a 10 man squad in a raider with 2 special weapons, a Hekatrix with an agoinzer and a Raider with Night Shields or the exact same squad except 9 man with one special weapon and a Haemonculus (gives you FNP from the start which is huge).

3) Vehicles: There are so many places to spend points on these tinfoil vehicles it's crazy. I have played around a bunch with them and for me (personal preference) I always do Night Shields on Raiders, nothing on Venoms (since the warrior variety normally sits back and shoots) and Flicker Fields on Razorwings and Ravagers. Night Shields on the stuff that sits back and shoots doesn't make much sense simply because all other armies anti tank has longer range then our weapons, so it doesnt matter. The reason why they work on Raiders is because it helps stop rapid fire bolters, plasma guns and those pesky melta guns from hitting you.

4) Scourges: Scourges are such a specialty squad you really have to focus at what you want. You either focus on Anti tank by taking Haywire Blasters or Blasters - OR - focus on anti infantry by leaving them "as is" or giving them splinter cannons. Both are great options. The only weapon I WOULDN'T take are Dark Lances as it removes their true benefit, which is speed (plus, them moving with blasters basically has the exact same range - 30" vs. 36") and it keeps you mobile.

Hope that helps!

[nurglespuss]

Thanks!

some great advice in there :D

I'll reformat the list and repost it :)

[thecactusman17]

Venoms really need that second splinter cannon to be most effective.

wyches in 5 model squads are really tough to work with, they don't have significant staying power (being a tarpit unit this is pretty critical) and they can't really hold objectives if they get out of their transport all that well.

Archons are best served up cheap and brutal. Shadowfield, Agonizer, maybe phantasm or haywire grenades if you take a unit of Incubi. Only bother with combat drugs if the Archon is rstarting with the Wyches or a unit of bloodbrides, he rarely gets to make the best use of them. Never bother with Ghostplate, 90% of the time if your shadowfield fails you are going to die immediately anyway. Clone fields would be great, except that they do nothing for you outside of shooting. Shadowfields are an invul save, which can be used in many different situations.

Vehicle options: Venoms need the dual splinter cannon before any other upgrade, but a solid second choice is Nightshields especially if you are going to place the unit on a midfield objective or deliver the squad inside into combat.

Raiders have good options, I prefer nightshields first because you can dance around outside of the efective range of many weapons. Combined with a Flickerfield you will realistically only worry about deep striking units and long range anti-tank in most games, at least in the earliest stages. Always take the Darklance over the Disintigrators, cracking transports open can be a tough challenge for DE.

Any time you have a mobile unit like scourges, don't take heavy weapons unless they also have an assault firing mode. Sacrificing that mobility means sacrificing crucial shooting as you get yourself into position. If you MUST have a lance weapon, take heat lances or blasters which both offer you a threat range of 30". Don't forget the Haywire launcher which can lock down most tanks and walkers all game.

[BlindGunn]

I have to agree - Wyches are not good for holding objectives - they need to be in CC to survive. To hold an objective, I would suggest Warriors. I would drop some of the Scourges or Reavers to get at least 3 squads of troops (our troops are rather fragile, after all).

5 model Wych squads may work out in the 1000 point level games. Depends on your opponents armies. Are they using MSU (Multiple SMall Units) - then probably. If they are sticking to Maximum sized squads, the Wyches may be pressed to survive.

[nurglespuss]

Duke Sliscus the serpent (Allows deep striking of raiders/venoms)
- goes in with wracks and haemonculi in raider

Haemonculus (goes in with wracks - makes wracks troops)
liquifier gun
venom blade

Troops
9xwracks
liquifier gun (2 liquifier gun shots (+ haemopnculi) before assault)

Raider
night shields

5xKabalite warriors (used to grab objectives later on in game)

Venom
Splinter cannon
night shields

5xKabalite warriors (same)

Venom
Splinter cannon
night shields

Fast attack
5xScourges (mobile fire support, slow down walkers if possible)
Blaster
Haywire blaster

4xReavers (an on-table reserve, to target vehicle rear armour)
Heat lance

Elites (I wish these could take a transport! - flanking unit)
Harlequins
Fusion pistol
Shadow seer
Death jester

[Ghoulio]

Duke Sliscus the serpent (Allows deep striking of raiders/venoms)
- goes in with wracks and haemonculi in raider

Haemonculus (goes in with wracks - makes wracks troops)
liquifier gun
venom blade

Troops
9xwracks
liquifier gun (2 liquifier gun shots (+ haemopnculi) before assault)

Raider
night shields

5xKabalite warriors (used to grab objectives later on in game)

Venom
Splinter cannon
night shields

5xKabalite warriors (same)

Venom
Splinter cannon
night shields

Fast attack
5xScourges (mobile fire support, slow down walkers if possible)
Blaster
Haywire blaster

4xReavers (an on-table reserve, to target vehicle rear armour)
Heat lance

Elites (I wish these could take a transport! - flanking unit)
Harlequins
Fusion pistol
Shadow seer
Death jester

I have highlighted a couple of issues/ideas to make these things work.

1) Duke: - The Duke is a great special character. He has two main reasons to take him which I am listing below (due to ultra random nature of both reserves and deep striking his planetary assault I wouldn't count as one of them).

1) Re-Roll combat drugs. So units like Wyches, Bloodbrides, Hellions and Reavers greatly benefit from having him in the army as you have a much greater chance of getting the drug you want instead of the one you don't (ie if you have Reavers the 3d6 fleet is useless).

2) Makes 1 Warrior/Trueborn Squads poison shots wound on a 3+ instead of a 4+. This is an amazing ability. You could for example stick him with 20 warriors with 2 splinter cannons so they get a min of 30 Shots at 24" with a possible 48 shots if something is dumb enough to get into 12" of you that all wound on a 3+. The thing that ties into this is that if you have Warriors or Trueborn in your army the Duke MUST join that unit. So he won't be able to join the Wracks (and would be wasted there anyways).

Since you have almost nothing in this army with combat drugs and only have small 5 man warrior squads, I would just go with a cheaper Archon or another unit. In 1000pts games I just have a super cheap Haemonculus lead the army and spend my points to fill the gaps.

2) Haemonculus/Wracks: - In the Wracks unit you have 9 guys...+ Haemonculus...+Duke/Archon, which of course equals 11, which won't work (Raiders can only take 10 guys/gals). Leave them at 9 with just the Haemonculus, or drop to 8 with the Archon and upgrade the Sergent for this squad and give him scissor hands or an agonizer (gives them more combat punch).

3) Warriors - I love me some warriors in a Venom but I would think about dropping the Night Shields and finding some extra points to give them both Blasters.

4) Reavers - Since you need groups of 3 in both the actual Reaver boxes as well as how many you need per special weapon, I would either drop it down to 3 to save yourself 22pts or up it to 6 and get a second heat lance (which is how I run mine...and they are pimp).

5) Harlequins: - You seem to really enjoy taking the hardest to use units in the entire book in your armies :) . One thing to keep in mind with this unit in regards to Transports is you are right when you say they can't take one from the start. That doesn't mean they can't start the game beside a unit of warriors that happen to have a Raider that they aren't using (like a 10 man warrior squad with a blaster and dark lance for example to camp your home objective). This way on turn one they can get in the Warriors Transport and turbo boost 24".

My advice for your 1000pts list is to just stick with the most basic units in the book. So things like warriors, wyches, reavers and ravagers. Take as many troops as you can fit in the list with a good mix of warriors for objective grabbing and wyches for taking the fight to the enemy and a Ravager or two with just Dark Lances and Flicker Fields for anti tank fire support. For me I find the key to this army is starting off with a "Core" army and adding in those fun units a bit later once you have the hang of how things work, which is exactly what I did. As I mentioned before that the DE book is the best one GW has made to date, but it is also one of the hardest to use, so it is really beneficial to stick with the basics first, then move into the more complicated stuff :)

[thecactusman17]

I love Harlequins! But to up their killing potential, a better option would be to remove the Death jester and fusion pistol, and fit as many as possible with Harlequin's Kisses. Kisses are what make the unit truly impressive in assault, and 90% of the time they will be running in the shooting phase, and another 75% of the time the rending will do better for killing tanks.

[Inquisitor Megasquig]

I haven't played against the new codex degenerate xenos but BEWARE OF KHARN. BFTBG

[Inquisitor Megasquig]

Erm by the way I hope Nurglepuss is just a cute nickname. Looks toward his rather scruffy calico and reaches for a chain axe. Opens a can of friskies.