Imperial navy

[Grailkeeper]

Do any of you have any pics of Imperial navy officers?

[Drew da Destroya]

Wasn't the guy from the Battle for Macragge set an Imperial Navy dude? Not sure if he was an officer or not.

[Grailkeeper]

Cheers, I'm modelling a Naval officer who has been forced to turn against the imperium when he has been "outed" as a low level pysker.

[eldargal]

Chap in the middle is an 'Officer of the Fleet':
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2520015_99060105263_IGRegimentalAdvisors_873x627. jpg

[Grailkeeper]

Cheers, I've seen some pics on lexicanum too-It seems High Collars are the order of the day.

[Grailkeeper]

I might swap the background of my character to Guard or commissariat as I'm not too keen on the Navy aesthetic. I should have mentioned at the beginning that this is for a planned black crusade campaign.


On a point of interest- what in the 40k universe do they call the waterborne vehicles we call ships? They have their own ships which travel through space controlled by the navy- what would be their equivalent of our current Navy do you think?

[Wildeybeast]

Ships. Most advanced Imperial worlds won't bother with a ocean vessels since it would be quicker and easier to use an air shuttle. The only places that would use them are less developed world where access to air transport is limited or ocean worlds where there isn't really anywhere to land a plane. But I don't see why they wouldn't still call them ships or boats though.

[MarneusCalgar]

Talking about navy...

And because this is the Fluff subforum...

Why we haven´t seen any Imperial or Chaotic submarine or watery ship??

Because I think that there will be many planets on the galaxy that have only water and no surface, don´t they??

[Wildeybeast]

Because they are of limited military value. The ork submersibles used on Armageddon clearly took the Imperial forces completely by surprise because they never bother using them. If such vessels were common, they would be looking out for them. Given the amount of readily accesible air firepower, ships are just going to get blasted out of the water by faster moving aircraft or even orbital strikes.
Also, where is the strategic value in controlling the seas? Since WW2, improvements in aircraft have seen the commercial and military value of the oceans diminish and that will be magnified in 41st millenium. So on earth type worlds, air power is king.
As for ocean worlds, why would you invest military force in them? They are going to be very sparsely populated, if at all, and then usually be pre-industrial civilizations due to the lack of raw materials necessary to advance the population. The only value ocean worlds have is in the raw materials you can get from them - fish and alage, possibly gas, oil and valuable metals. However, all these are difficult to get from the ocean, even in the future. When the Imperium has thousands of worlds, it is far easier and cheaper to get food from an agri world or metals from a resource rich world. As such, any commercial investment in an ocean world is going to be limited in most cases, so it is easier just to let it be destroyed by an invading army and then replace it later, rather than wasting military forces in defending it. For the same reason - why would anyone bother invading an ocean world (other than Tyranids who can make use of all natural materials)?

[eldargal]

The only situation I could see a waterborne ships being of any utility would be in a prolonged war where no side can claim control air/space supremacy so it is too dangerous or impossible to move troops via air. So very situational.

[DrLove42]

Tau ships are as comfortable in water as they are in air or space.

Theres even a fiction piece in a GW book somewhere about the Wolves and the Tau fighting battles on the sea floor, with Terminators and Battlesuits fighting on the floor, while Mantas "fly" overhead

[Grailkeeper]

There's something similar in one of those awful Ben Counter soul drinkers books, and theres an Imperial attack on a large Chaos ship in the Sabbat worlds omnibus. The Orks used subs at armageddon- I think I've seen Ork boats on the GW website and in white dwarf.

[MarneusCalgar]

Because they are of limited military value...

For the same reason - why would anyone bother invading an ocean world (other than Tyranids who can make use of all natural materials)?

Well, man, and you, a british man, tell me this??? You live in an island!!

Tell me, on II WW there were both planes (remember Iron Maiden´s Aces High?) and submarines (the first ones) and I think I mustn´t remember you all the nuclear submarines that come here to Gibraltar every month...

Water, at least here, on the Earth, has a lot of resources to use... You can find oil, minerals, etc...

So imagine an entire world full of some strange mineral that provides of a cheaper fuel, or an unlimited power source the entire Empire... Would you stay out of that world because it´s only a ball full of water??

Remember also Star Wars´s Mon Calamari inhabitants

[WereWolf_nr]

Defensively, ships would be awesome.

The ability to mount weapons that are larger than practical for land and still be able to move would allow the defenders of a planet to potentially engage targets in orbit and then move out of the way of the return fire. Additionally, they could harass enemy forces along the coast and dozens of miles inland. This is all assuming a continent based location; in one that is primarily water, they would be a requirement.

[MarneusCalgar]

I find VERY INTERESTING if GW would explore that way, not of naval ships like Battleship or Man O War, but just create a ship for every army to make us create that epic battles

[Drew da Destroya]

Tell me, on II WW there were both planes (remember Iron Maiden´s Aces High?) and submarines (the first ones) and I think I mustn´t remember you all the nuclear submarines that come here to Gibraltar every month...

But you're looking at this from a modern/recent history point of view. During WW2, Naval Power was extremely important, because you couldn't rapidly transport large numbers of infantry, tanks, supplies, etc... across the ocean by air. Hell, most planes needed to be transported across the ocean before they could be effective... or at least land in an allied nation to refuel. They didn't have Starships or extreme-range aircraft... hell, they barely had jets engines.


Water, at least here, on the Earth, has a lot of resources to use... You can find oil, minerals, etc...

Yes, when you're limited to one planet, you're going to use all available resources on that planet. It's a matter of scale. If you have more planets to choose from, you're going to choose the one that makes your job easier. And I believe Wildey even acknowledged that ocean-based worlds have lots of useful resources. However, his point is that it will be easier, and thus more profitable, to get those resources from another planet where you don't have to harvest those resources underwater. Ask BP if they'd prefer to set up an Ocean Drilling Platform, or to move to a land-based drill, if all they had to do was travel to a different area. They're not going to choose ocean drilling.


So imagine an entire world full of some strange mineral that provides of a cheaper fuel, or an unlimited power source the entire Empire... Would you stay out of that world because it´s only a ball full of water??

This is a poor argument, because extreme examples are extreme. Of course if an ocean planet contained some form of unlimited power source, it would be hotly contested and coveted. Hell, the planet could be made up entirely of acid, and every two hours all of the acid catches fire, and that planet would still be colonized and the power source harvested.

It's like saying to someone "Oh, you don't like to eat cat poop? What if that cat poop was actually chocolate and it made your poop turn into gold?".


Remember also Star Wars´s Mon Calamari inhabitants

IT'S A TRAP!

[Kawauso]

The ability to mount weapons that are larger than practical for land and still be able to move would allow the defenders of a planet to potentially engage targets in orbit and then move out of the way of the return fire. Additionally, they could harass enemy forces along the coast and dozens of miles inland. This is all assuming a continent based location; in one that is primarily water, they would be a requirement.

I don't think the Imperium...or any other faction...has difficulty using weapons that are 'larger than practical' on land.

Super-heavies and Titans come to mind. They do exactly that, except they function on land or even in the air.

And artillery formations like Basilisks can easily harass enemy forces that are very, very far off. Much like modern artillery.

[Wildeybeast]

But you're looking at this from a modern/recent history point of view. During WW2, Naval Power was extremely important, because you couldn't rapidly transport large numbers of infantry, tanks, supplies, etc... across the ocean by air. Hell, most planes needed to be transported across the ocean before they could be effective... or at least land in an allied nation to refuel. They didn't have Starships or extreme-range aircraft... hell, they barely had jets engines.



Yes, when you're limited to one planet, you're going to use all available resources on that planet. It's a matter of scale. If you have more planets to choose from, you're going to choose the one that makes your job easier. And I believe Wildey even acknowledged that ocean-based worlds have lots of useful resources. However, his point is that it will be easier, and thus more profitable, to get those resources from another planet where you don't have to harvest those resources underwater. Ask BP if they'd prefer to set up an Ocean Drilling Platform, or to move to a land-based drill, if all they had to do was travel to a different area. They're not going to choose ocean drilling.



This is a poor argument, because extreme examples are extreme. Of course if an ocean planet contained some form of unlimited power source, it would be hotly contested and coveted. Hell, the planet could be made up entirely of acid, and every two hours all of the acid catches fire, and that planet would still be colonized and the power source harvested.

It's like saying to someone "Oh, you don't like to eat cat poop? What if that cat poop was actually chocolate and it made your poop turn into gold?".



IT'S A TRAP!

Thanks, that saved me a lengthy reply. :) I wasn't saying there are no ocean vessels at all, I mentioned the ork submersibles in a earlier post, just that they are rare because they have limited use. When you have aircraft that can transport tanks and heavy artillery from orbit to land in a few minutes, why bother builidng a boat that will take weeks to transport stuff across the ocean? Sure there will be mega resource ocean worlds that are worth exploiting, like the one in Knights of the Old Republic that makes magical healing seaweed. But most ocean worlds will have mixed resources which are easier to obtain elsewhere. And a world for the imperium only has military value if it has some sort of valuable resource or great strategic significance. In most cases ocean worlds will not have.

[Tynskel]

on the topics of resources: asteroids, by nature of differentiation, will have more mineral/metal resources than a world. Worlds provide many other aspects. Biomass, being one. An Ocean world could possibly feed a sector.

[chromedog]

As for the request for pics of Navy officers:

From Jes Goodwin's "Gothic and the Eldritch" art book.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r221/chromedog/FleetCap.jpg http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r221/chromedog/FleetJunior.jpg http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r221/chromedog/FleetCrew.jpg

Fleet Captain, Junior officer and crew ratings.

[Grailkeeper]

Thank you very much, I can; make out what the notes beside the pictures say, do you know what they said originally?

[Thornblood]

I just don't think GW has any interest in ocean based battles in 40k. Anything that can be done in the ocean can be done better, and more in feel with a futuristic game in space.

Oceans seem to be pretty rare and so only pdf forces of particularly ocean based worlds would ever have fleets of boats. Having said that Chimera's are amphibious whioch are one of the only vehicles available to pdf. GW hasnt developed pdf forces because the guard, who visit other worlds to fight on are more interesting and more versatile and the owning player isn't always having to pretend it's their world being defended. At the moment GW operate from an Imperial viewpoint, and that view is mostly on the land.

But there is nothing stopping you from following down this route and exploring yourself.

[Thornblood]

Oh yeah and imperial navy images;

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=40k+imperial+navy+officers&um=1&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&biw=1384&bih=682&tbm=isch&tbnid=IyNu2yvEoWjGVM:&imgrefurl=http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp%3Feidn%3D2020&docid=9lS66BTi0PiJpM&w=540&h=391&ei=VNl4TqL7CeiW0QWovuSMDQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=939&vpy=321&dur=2835&hovh=191&hovw=264&tx=165&ty=102&page=1&tbnh=146&tbnw=201&start=0&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:0

[lomaxxdurang]

I just don't think GW has any interest in ocean based battles in 40k. Anything that can be done in the ocean can be done better, and more in feel with a futuristic game in space.

Oceans seem to be pretty rare and so only pdf forces of particularly ocean based worlds would ever have fleets of boats. Having said that Chimera's are amphibious whioch are one of the only vehicles available to pdf. GW hasnt developed pdf forces because the guard, who visit other worlds to fight on are more interesting and more versatile and the owning player isn't always having to pretend it's their world being defended. At the moment GW operate from an Imperial viewpoint, and that view is mostly on the land.

But there is nothing stopping you from following down this route and exploring yourself.

You saved me pointing out the chimera thing.
The most recent Cain audio novel is set up very apocalypse now on rivers in boats.
In double eagle the imperium retreats with large mass carriers to get away from the traitor forces and these were boats.
Boats are mostly used for transporting supplies like fuel ammo and food stuffs.
A world isn't going to give up oceanic travel because they have space travel simply because its slower the energy requirements and safety provided from trans oceanic shipping would keep that in play.

If Gaunts Ghosts can have an entirely zepplin based fleet then I expect many worlds have naval battles.

The orks took the imperials by surprise with there submarines because as usual the imperium doesn't expect tactics from an ork.

[chromedog]

Thank you very much, I can; make out what the notes beside the pictures say, do you know what they said originally?

Not without digging the original book out.
I had to pack everything away when we started renovations and it's going to take me months to get it all resorted out and unpacked.
Those are the cropped scans I had.