CHS Female Guardsmen pack

[eldargal]

Just noticed this (http://chapterhousestudios.com/webshop/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.product_details&category_id=35&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=125) on the CHS website
http://chapterhousestudios.com/webshop/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/Abbithan_Banshee_4e420a9fcc6e0.jpg

Looks promising, I want to see some more and better pictures though, I'm not sure they beat the Shadowforge set from what I see at present. Edit: Actually I think the CHS faces are nicer than the SF faces.

Girl with the bayonet looks a lot like a girl I went to school with.

[isotope99]

They look a bit like child soldiers to me, which is also fun.

Though not in real life of course </serious face>.

[DrLove42]

They don't look very female to me. Can't see much in the way of bewbs and not feminine faces

[eldargal]

Well as I said we need better pictures. The faces don't seem too bad from what I can tell, and the thinner legs helps. No decent torso pictures to see if they have the shape right though.

[Lancel]

Better pictures would help yes, but I appreciate the intended style, very much like male Guardsmen instead of arbitrarily giving the women custom breastplates. It's rather refreshing! Really I would think the difference would be reflected more in the overall shape and likely the height as well rather than simply what's on the chest anyway. It's an attempt to convey with subtlety, rather than resort to the "obviously male" and "obviously female" stereotypes, which I guess are more popular because subtlety is hard to translate in miniature, but I digress... more pictures would help.

[archimbald]

not much difference, pack seems good enough value tho

[wittdooley]

Um... I think my picture is missing the female....

[Gotthammer]

If they're still using the Cadian arms they'll mechanically need the same width shoulders, which will screw with their proportions - especially with the thinner legs combined with broad shoulders and thick arms.

I'll not pass final judgement yet, but given they look like their forearms are as thick as their thighs, I'll probably be passing on these ones.

[Lancel]

If they're still using the Cadian arms they'll mechanically need the same width shoulders, which will screw with their proportions - especially with the thinner legs combined with broad shoulders and thick arms.

I'll not pass final judgement yet, but given they look like their forearms are as thick as their thighs, I'll probably be passing on these ones.

I did notice that some of them looked like they had rather emaciated thighs, but I wasn't sure if it was just the pic or the angle or what.

[fuzzbuket]

no thanks! oddly shaped and badly sculpted heads combined with the horrible chestpieces (see the mortar girl/woman/transvestite) and the huge arms makes them look more like cod zombies than female millita.

IHMO CHS is going the wrong way with this, if a person passes the IG fitness they should not have the super skinny sizes of these minis, frankly a head swap (and full helms) and a slightly enlarged front plate would be fine,

[George Labour]

I'll wait for better pictures.

Though I'd like to see something more along the lines of female guardpeoples in long coats, or armor similar to Vostroyans than what's basically a cadian conversion kit. Maybe female guard with carapace armor and legs that use the cadian arms?

Definitely something I'd love to see. Of course, they'd have to do something to make them not look like Sororitas with lasguns, but I imagine they could pull it off.

[MajorWesJanson]

Nice effort, but very poor execution. While we don't want overly exaggerated females, some degree is necessary for a tabletop mini- that is why heroic scale models have larger hands, heads, and weapons. These look like normal cadians with stick legs and thinner helmets.

More pictures may help, but I doubt it.

The Shadowforge/ Doctor Thunder ones are more exaggerated, but work rather well.

I'd still love to see what Jes and Juan could come up with now.

[AbusePuppy]

:|

If someone is actually wearing military combat armor, you will not be able to tell what gender they from anything but their face. It is super, super easy to make female Guardsmen just by doing a headswap, unless for some reason they all have H-cup breast implants. (Hint: don't f*cking do this, it makes you look like a horrible creep and no on wants to play you. No, I don't care if you mutter something about the word Slaanesh in there, it's still awful.)

"Boob armor" like the Sororitas wear and like every single fantasy/sci-fi image depicts is purely an invention of the 20th century mind and has absolutely no basis in reality. Barring literal form-sculpted gear, even "subtle" versions like Eldar/DE are mere fantasy.


The Shadowforge/ Doctor Thunder ones are more exaggerated, but work rather well.

Please tell me you are kidding.

[eldargal]

Not true, women are a different shape. Also this stupid misconception has come about from women being forced to wear male shaped body armour which doesn't fit them well, causes discomfort and is extremely dangerous as it doesn't distribute the force from shots properly. There is a lot of effort being put into developing female specific body armour to rectify this, and when that happens female soldiers will, in fact, be obviously female. As it stands it depends on the woman, if you have a petite or athletic build you will probably be mistaken for a boy in armour, if you have a more feminine build then not so much.

[pauljc]

Agreed about needing better photos. Those legs look a little too scrawny to me.

[isotope99]

If I were to do this, I'd start with an eldar body, use very thin GS/Milliput to put fatigues over the eldar armour and swap out the shuriken weapon for a lasgun, rather than try to slim down an existing cadian.

As others have said, the big arms throw the proportions off too much.

[Slug]

Yea, I can't say I like them much, it could be better in person, but from the picture the faces look... not so great, and I have to agree with the other complaints about arm to rest of body ratio problems.

[Lancel]

Not true, women are a different shape. Also this stupid misconception has come about from women being forced to wear male shaped body armour which doesn't fit them well, causes discomfort and is extremely dangerous as it doesn't distribute the force from shots properly. There is a lot of effort being put into developing female specific body armour to rectify this, and when that happens female soldiers will, in fact, be obviously female. As it stands it depends on the woman, if you have a petite or athletic build you will probably be mistaken for a boy in armour, if you have a more feminine build then not so much.

Huh, you know I hadn't considered that, I was just thinking about how modern armies use the same body armor for both genders. Learn something new I guess. This does make sense, although I agree that fantasy body armor is often exaggerated for women. Now I'm kinda curious about their research.

[chapterhousestudios]

I put these on the site last nite since I was adding the entry to the new website design as well.. Reason being - I had numerous request to buy them from dakkadakka.com users who had seen them in a post and now they can without emailing me :).

The picture used was sent earlier this week from the local painter I had work on them, he does not have the best camera or set up. I have the actual models in hand now so I will be updating the photo, adding some unpainted single figure photos etc here soon.

I do not think I had posted these on BOLS yet so here are some other photos, notice the slimmer legs and torso. I still used the GW Cadian IG arms and weapons, some people approve, some dont. Personally, I would use them just fine, as it would save me as a customer the trouble of modifying arms etc.

There are some arms in the works that will be sculpted especially for these pieces, but then you run into the issue of cutting and gluing on lasguns that GW molds onto the arms on their models already.

Nick - Chapterhousestudios.com

[AbusePuppy]

Not true, women are a different shape. Also this stupid misconception has come about from women being forced to wear male shaped body armour which doesn't fit them well, causes discomfort and is extremely dangerous as it doesn't distribute the force from shots properly. There is a lot of effort being put into developing female specific body armour to rectify this, and when that happens female soldiers will, in fact, be obviously female. As it stands it depends on the woman, if you have a petite or athletic build you will probably be mistaken for a boy in armour, if you have a more feminine build then not so much.

Would you like to back this up? Yes, women do wear different body armor than men, but the difference is not particularly visible when you're looking at it from the outside/upper layers. Similarly, plate or other archaic armors are essentially the same for both genders in all visible ways- having any kind of "armored cleavage" would only provide a fatal point for impacts to focus on, and in a handy dead-center-of-mass location, too. Yes, armor does need to be fitted to its wearer, and there are meaningful differences between genders, but ALL armor needs to be fitted to its wearer to be used properly and the fact that you have half an inch or more of material and ten-plus pounds of weight on you tends to minimize any visible differences. From the surface, you will only be able to see boobage if the designer has gone out of their way to emphasize it with the design.

Do a simple image search for "female body armor." Look around at any sort of forum dedicated to that sort of thing. Female physiology isn't visible from the surface layers of pretty much any type of significant body armor. (If you're talking just a simple kevlar vest, then yes, that's a different matter, but Flak is much more akin to the full-body armors worn by the military and riot police. Unless you're a Catachan, in which case it's a sleeveless vest and a bandanna.)

[eldargal]

Sure:
http://www.bodyarmornews.com/body-armor-news/women-body-armor.htm
http://www.dailyglow.com/female-military-uniforms-get-feminine-makeover-0424.html
http://www.military.com/news/article/army-news/army-works-to-tweak-female-body-armor.html
http://www.peaceopstraining.org/theses/carbone.pdf
I can't find the one about male body armour on female soldiers not dispersing the impacts from shots properly though, not sure where that has got to, had it bookmarked.
There is also this, written by a female soldier:
http://www.soldiergeek.com/milblog/2011/4/24/better-body-armor-for-female-soldiers.html

I too have friends who are female soldiers, I've also kitted up myself when my brothers were in the Army. I also do historical reenactment in full plate to a far higher standard than 99% of SCA groups. When you are a different shape it is very difficult to get armour that is made to fit which doesn't look feminine. To be fair some of the male gothic harnesses acted like a corset so it is less noticeable but it is still there.

(Most) Women are a different shape and have different proportions to men, and it shows.


Because the body armour they are wearing was designed for men

Do a simple image search for "female body armor." Look around at any sort of forum dedicated to that sort of thing. Female physiology isn't visible from the surface layers of pretty much any type of significant body armor. (If you're talking just a simple kevlar vest, then yes, that's a different matter, but Flak is much more akin to the full-body armors worn by the military and riot police. Unless you're a Catachan, in which case it's a sleeveless vest and a bandanna.)

[eldargal]

Ok not the article I was looking for, being police rather than military, but it mentions the main issue:
http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Women-in-Law-Enforcement/Articles/2007/10/The-Shape-of-Womens-Body-Armor.aspx

Darting is the most common way to shape ballistic material around the bust. A dart is an overlapping of fabric at an angle. Creating darts at certain positions near the bust cinches the material at the correct points to contour to a woman's body. If the darts don't hit at the right point, the armor will follow the wrong contours and won't fit the officer. Not only can the wrong fit be unsightly, not having appropriate ballistic coverage is dangerous.

"If you put a male vest on a woman with an ample chest, the sides of her breasts are pushed out to the side and she has no side coverage on her chest," explains PT Armor's Glaze.
In other words, she can get shot and killed despite the armour. The article I can't find had examples of action situations where female Marines had been injured (and possibly killed, I don't recall) in Iraq by ill fitting body armour causing them to be shot.

This is what happened to me when I wore the military kevlar, it gaped so much at the side I could almost tuck my arms into the chest cavity like I was wearing a baggy t-shirt. That was the best fitting we could find too.

[Lancel]

I've also kitted up myself when my brothers were in the Army. I also do historical reenactment in full plate to a far higher standard than 99% of SCA groups. When you are a different shape it is very difficult to get armour that is made to fit which doesn't look feminine.

This is true. Plate armor was better if it were custom fitted in order to maximize mobility. Properly fitted armor was heavy, but the weight would be evenly distributed across the body, which is what made it possible to move around in a rather normal fashion. I don't know what your experiences are with it, but now I'm kinda interested. How much does your set weigh? Is it proper actually-heavy steel?

[eldargal]

Yep, 2mm steel through to 6mm in front. My main gothic harness weighs around twenty five kilograms I believe. I'm not sure in pounds because the armourer only works in metric.:rolleyes:

The weight distribution of the modern armour is a big issue, as you see in the articles. It often sits on the hips, chafing and making it hard to move. The replacement armour won't overly feminised and form fitting in the sense of exaggerating the bust, but it will tuck in more at the hips and indicate a more feminine shape overall

[Lancel]

Yep, 2mm steel through to 6mm in front. My main gothic harness weighs around twenty five kilograms I believe. I'm not sure in pounds because the armourer only works in metric.:rolleyes:

The weight distribution of the modern armour is a big issue, as you see in the articles. It often sits on the hips, chafing and making it hard to move. The replacement armour won't overly feminised and form fitting in the sense of exaggerating the bust, but it will tuck in more at the hips and indicate a more feminine shape overall

Yeah, I was reading on that. This is interesting stuff. Are they planning on making the new ones adjustable to some degree? It would seem like a good idea to me, but I'm not sure

25 kg is about 55 pounds, that's what I'd expect from a proper set. Does the chain mail count separately? I'm curious how that fits, since it's so flexible, but I imagine proper fitting for it has a similar benefit.

[Deadlift]

Hang on, if the Imperial guards got women in it, shouldn't they be armed with Ironing boards, breast pumps and handbags :p

I would write more but living in fear of the mrs looking over my shoulder and seeing what I am typing.

[Kawauso]

Well good thing, since it was a pretty lame attempt at humour, anyway. :P

Not like female Guardsmen are anything new - all-female and mixed-gender regiments come up pretty regularly in the fiction.

[Deadlift]

To be honest though looking at GWs efforts on the DE female sculpts, if they were going to expand their female IG model range, then to be honest they would be hard to beat. The (eventual) Sisters of battle plastics when they come are going to be awesome and we all know it.

I do like some CHS conversion bitz, but not these.

See even I can be serious sometimes, despite the cliques we have in the forums and their distinct lack of humour :eek:

[Kawauso]

I wasn't asking for complete seriousness. I don't view it as a lack of humour being unamused by someone going for the lowest-hanging fruit that consists of tired old stereotypes.

But maybe that's just me. :P

Back on topic, however, I agree that these sculpts are...pretty ugly. From what we can see.
I find a -lot- of CH stuff is really hit-or-miss, though.

They make some lovely shoulders pads, which I've ordered in the past (also some far less-than-lovely ones), and some really great conversion kits that I'd love to grab (like the Chimera fast response vehicle upgrade). They also make some stuff that I consider to be really aesthetically unpleasant and/or poorly designed. Like their Space Wolf rhino doors/panels, which look really...blah...or their Stormraven expansion kit or Tyranid drop-spore, which are just ludicrously enormous (seriously, a spore meant to carry a Carnifex curled-up would likely be around the same size as the 'fex as it stands on its base. and it would still be able to carry tons of gribblies. and a Stormraven can carry 12 marines. military transports -are- clown cars, people! some people seem to like 'em and that's their prerogative, but personally the ol' transport scale thing is just one of my pet peeves). But I'll digress, as I'm getting a little side-tracked, here...

These Guardsmen upgrades are a bit of both, I think. From what we can see, they look really visually unpleasant, and idea of legs/torso upgrades that mesh with the existing Guardsmen arms just doesn't seem like the best solution.

I'll agree that I'd love to see some female Guardsmen from GW/FW at some point, however. Would really love to add some ladies to the ranks of my regiment...I like to think the Immersturm 144th isn't male-only. :P For now I guess I'll have to make due with saying that the ladies in my units are hidden under the helmets/male flak armour that everyone's wearing, though.

[Immortal]

To back up Eldargal on this one... Current military body armor used by the US Army in combat, the IOTV and the ICV before that, were not designed to fit over women very effectively.
These types of armor are designed to fit flat on the chest, and additionally a Soldier puts a great deal of additional weight on the armor (radios, additional ammunition, medic packs, ect.). When a woman is 'well endowed,' this becomes a bane as the weight gets distributed to the chest rather then the shoulders and waist where is it suppose to... all this translates into women suffering back problems.
The ballistic plate, a ceramic plate with only a slight curve to it, is actually painful for women to wear over an extended period of time and the armor doesn't sit properly on the soldier and causes it to be less effective (also as Eldargal mentioned).
All that being said, the CHS minis are actually fairly accurate in that respect. Not all female soldiers have large busts, beefy legs, or large muscular frames... and they may even look like 'boys' because a of a lack of makeup and (thankfully) facial hair, or a chiseled jaw line.

[McGibs]

I somehow doubt theyd be issued with tight pants and knee high hooker boots though.

[Kawauso]

I don't think anyone is arguing that they would?

They would certainly be issued with flak or carapace armour that is more suggestive of the female form, however. I mean, provided their regiment is able to supply them with that sort of thing.

Unless you're talking about Sisters? But the whole gothic power-armour-corset thing is part of their army's identity and style, much in the same way that the Space Wolves are a bunch of raving vikings with advanced technology. Personally, as far as SoB are concerned I like the aesthetics of their army because they're feminine and sexy without being half-naked in metal bikinis. Like the new DE wyches. Repentia don't count, because even though they're practically naked most people don't find crazed religious zealots who are way into self-flagellation all that sexy.

[Necron2.0]

I wouldn't mind seeing something like the "Panzer Cops" (male and female variants shown in the linked image):
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c325/R_Deckard/Macross_SDF-1/Kerberos/DSCF3965.jpg

[WereWolf_nr]

I wouldn't mind seeing something like the "Panzer Cops" (male and female variants shown in the linked image):
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c325/R_Deckard/Macross_SDF-1/Kerberos/DSCF3965.jpg



That actually does seem to be a reasonable compromise set of armor. Where the differences are clear but not exaggerated.

[eldargal]

AlexHolker on Warseer did this fan-concept art for Mantic's Warpath, I really like it:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=116387&d=1313590784
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=116394&d=1313598835
Just what you would expect from proper female body armour. Feminine shape, but not overly sexualised. Really well done I thought.:)

[The Madman]

there was a guy who used to sell some sculpts but for health issues stopped.

http://www.40kimperialguard.co.uk/2011/female-imperial-guard/

http://www.40kimperialguard.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/WIPPics.jpg

[Necron2.0]

Hmmm. The sculptor has more talent than I, no question there. Even so, I'm thinking that guardswoman is perhaps a touch too callipygian. It just strikes me her hips are such that she could probably push out a 10 pound future guardsman with little to no difficulties.

[Javin]

Wish those bodies were still available. I think the legs look alittle thin and not too sure about the high boots. But I will order one set and see how they work. I will try to post the finished result :).

[stoksey]

These sculpts are the best female guard I've seen, a shame they aren't still available. As mentioned by others, the shape of body armour isn't altered by the body shape inside, male or female, and it is normally the tied back hair peeking from beneath the helmet and the general bearing of the soldier that gives away the gender. And the cloud of hopefull single soldiers buzzing around of course!

[Mikeymodelman]

Longer hair sticking out of their helmets would help show their gender better, it's hard to tell they are female as they are.

[Kawauso]

I think when I get around to having the time/money to expand my guard I'll stick to trying out these:
http://www.shadowforge.com.au/images/lm0100.jpg

Would be nice to bulk out the numbers in my army a little with some female soldiers. And these seem like exactly what I'd need...it's the female flak armour that I'm really after. All my IG wear enclosed helmets with respirators, anyway.

[Javin]

Well I ordered the Chapterhouse Female Guardsmen pack. The resin quality was ok, lots of sanding and some bubbles. The actual miniatures are about 1/2 inch to 3/4 of an inch smaller than a regular guardsman. The legs are VERY thin. They do not work well with the GW Cadian guardsmen. The torsos look pretty decent however the waist is quite thin, making Cadian legs look rather huge. Cadian arms did not fit to the torsos because the torsos are so small. Overall, I would not purchase this product again. The models seem to made to a 20mm scale. The backpacks were decent.

The Shadowforge models were easier to work with. However the chests are .... pronounced. The torsos fit to GW legs and arms. The heads actually seem female.

[Kawauso]

Would you say the pronounced chests are any worse than the other exaggerated characteristics that 40k minis tend to have?

[eldargal]

Well I ordered the Chapterhouse Female Guardsmen pack. The resin quality was ok, lots of sanding and some bubbles. The actual miniatures are about 1/2 inch to 3/4 of an inch smaller than a regular guardsman. The legs are VERY thin. They do not work well with the GW Cadian guardsmen. The torsos look pretty decent however the waist is quite thin, making Cadian legs look rather huge. Cadian arms did not fit to the torsos because the torsos are so small. Overall, I would not purchase this product again. The models seem to made to a 20mm scale. The backpacks were decent.

The Shadowforge models were easier to work with. However the chests are .... pronounced. The torsos fit to GW legs and arms. The heads actually seem female.
Aw, that is a shame. Still, nice to know the shadowforge set is nice, do you have any pictures?

[Javin]

Here are some of the pictures as promised. The Chapter House Female IG look like child soldiers. The Cadian arms look very outsized compared to the rest of the body. I have included size shots with regular Cadian IG Figures. Shadowforge Female IG work because they only have heads and torsos. The chests are not as pronounced once put onto Cadian legs.

Half the Chapter House Sprue was flawless, the other half was pretty bad. It took me about 20 minutes per leg set to clean up the bad leg sprue.

First Pic is CH, CW, and then SF, SF.

I put the Cadian Command Squad rebreathers on the female faces, due to the theme of my army. Yes the are just starting to get painted.

[Kawauso]

Thanks for the pics!

The Shadowforge models turn out pretty much how I figured/hoped they would...so I'll definitely have to grab some to add a bit of gender diversity to my IG army.

I use Pig Iron helmets on my IG so I'm sure combined with these torsos you won't really be able to tell which models are female without picking them up and taking a closer look...but that's fine by me, really. :)

[MajorWesJanson]

Are the shadowforge females on normal cadian legs? I may have to pick up a few sets of them, they look nice.

[Javin]

The first picture - the two on the right have cadian legs and arms. You can really extend the life of the Shadowforge Female IG kit because you can put the female heads on regular Cadian models and the female torsos with everything else Cadian. I added about 18 female IG with one pack. You will need extra legs. I did not pick up the Shadowforge Russian Female IG pack.

Both Shadowforge and Chapter House were very quick with delivery.