Has anyone actually questioned the new GW policy's?

[ozeo]

So has anyone at a Gamesday or anything else with actually higher-ups from GW questioned there recent policies regarding the news blackouts and policies? I'm curious if they even know that this idea is the dumbest move they have ever pulled.

Would a open letter or petition help at all? I'm sure if we were to unify we would be able to sway someone or at least get them talking about it? What if everyone sent in a empty sprue or something?

There has to be something we the consumer can do, I even thought about purchasing a share or two and going to there share holders meeting and bringing up some questions.

Anyone got any ideas?


(I'm attempting to get something started as this is my exact post over at warseer and hoping I can get the Bols people in on this too)

[pauljc]

I don't believe a petition or open letter will do much good. Of course, feel free to voice your opinion to them, and send a letter.

Thing is, what you see as the worst policies ever have been undertaken after a lot of research and have been put in place because GW think they are necessary to safe-guard their business and ensure future profitability.

I believe there was a blog recently where one of the higher-ups explained why the changes were necessary. In it, he stated things such as internet stores basically getting a free-ride off everyone else's hard work. And I agree with him.

Most of the new policies are designed to get people coming back into stores, and I think that's a good thing. I don't need to explain why.

Of course, pricing in countries outside of the UK is always going to be a contentious issue. I understand that for various reasons, GW products in Australia cost like double than they do in UK. And it sucks. I'm guessing one of the major reasons is that it costs an absolute fortune to ship stuff overseas. If you saw the shipping bills that GW pay each month to send containers of plastic models to Australia every month, your eyes would bleed. ;)

For example, the company I work for in Finland simply converts dollar price of their products straight to euro price. The euro price should be significantly less, but after shipping, costs, profit, and a host of other reasons have been figured in, the straight conversion works out to be marginally in our favour.

Thing is, they're not putting these policies in place because they're the devil. Sure, they might seem cynical at times, but they are a big company, with a lot to lose, so they are doing what they believe is necessary for their continued 'dominance'. And why shouldn't they? More money for them means better models and games for us.
GW has always had an interesting, and sometimes totally odd, approach to business. You ever notice how they hardly ever have sales? Even on models over 15 years old.

Anyhoo, back to your original post. By all means write or call GW, and voice your opinion. But the best way to make that voice heard is to simply stop buying GW products. And I don't mean switch to internet purchases (as they are still getting your money - you're just helping to put a LGS out of business), but quit altogether. If enough people do that, GW will get the message.

But they will not turn around tomorrow and reverse their policies simply because you got 5 million people to sign a petition.

I'm not being snipey or anything, but GW needs time to see if these policies work. What if they do work? It could well be that these new policies are super-smart, and gamers start flocking back to their LGS's.

I'm sure you can agree that LGS's are a good thing, right? I would say essential to our hobby.

[Mauglum.]

Hi all.
If you want to protest about GW plc policy.
The best way is to join the 34% of customers that have quit the GW hobby (tm) in the last 6 years.
You can simply continue to play wargames from companies that offer better VFM.

Remember only 24% of the GW retail price is the cost of production development and distribution.

And if GW plc did not price gouge certain areas , independant retailers could not sell at such massive discount on local prices.

Could you please post a link to all the research GWplc have done recently?

Because calling you largest independent retailers 'freeloaders' doesnt sound very professional to me.
And the trade imbargo looks like a childish knee jerk reaction to ligitimate competition in retailing options.

How dare they expoit our exploitation!:D

Have you noticed Mr Wells is STILL hoping for a return to growth for the 6 th year running.
Constantly increasing prices over inflation didnt work the five previous times , so why not try something different ?
Like offering good value for money.

Like Spartan, Warlord.AoW,Mantic,PP,Urban Mamoth,FF etc do?
In a time of recession all these companies are GROWING thier customer base.

[Wildeybeast]

Hi all.
If you want to protest about GW plc policy.
The best way is to join the 34% of customers that have quit the GW hobby (tm) in the last 6 years.

Where have you got this figure from? And is this the gross number of people leaving or the net figure taking into account the number of people who have started/taken it up again?

I'm honestly not worried about the news blackout as its doesn't seem particularly effective. We had pictures of new, painted Ogre Kingdom models a month before their release, basically as soon as they were announced in this months WD. Coincidence? I doubt it very much. GW has deliberately leaked stuff to the web for a few years now and I doubt that will change. All it means is that you will get news of what's coming a few weeks in advance, rather than a few months.

[daboarder]

Most likely from GW's annual reviews where there have been steady sales losses for the last few years. That doesn't mean less people are PLAYING GW games just that less are buying GW product.

[JxKxR]

Where have you got this figure from?

Don't you know that about 85% of statistics are made up?

[Pendragon38]

I havent bought any GW stuff for at least a year I go through other sites like ebay or craigslist and pick up1500pts sm armys for 30-70$ and sometimes its good and other take time to make them look good. But if you want to mess with you can spend the money and fly out there with your gameing buddies and pickit there office and that might get news and then more might come to your cause

[wittdooley]

Oh Mauglum. You and your invented statistic never cease to crack me up. Watch what I can do:

41% of boys aged 13-17 spend 73% of their waking hours watching porn on the internet. 18% of the remaining 27% is spent cursing on Call of Duty.

But seriously; write a letter if you feel inclined. Like, a real, type or hand written letter, signed in pen by you. Don't call. The guys on the phone don't need your berating, nor can they do a single thing about it. They're just there doing their jobs.

[Drew da Destroya]

I think your stats are a bit off. It's more like 75% of men aged 13-45 spend 80% of their time on the internet watching porn.

95% of time spent on X-Box Live is profanity. The other 5% is spent complaining that somebody is cheating.

To stay somewhat on topic, a letter will only do so much. Voting with your wallet is more effective. While their recent policies seem silly to me, ultimately I've decided that the enjoyment I get from the game and surrounding hobby is worthwhile. I'm not entitled to see models from 3 months out, or to know their release schedule for a year ahead of time, and while it was nice while it lasted, it won't seriously affect my gaming purchases, either.

[HsojVvad]

The OP is forgeting something. We here on the internet forums is not GW customer base. Right now, (but it does seem to be changing) is that GW customer base is rich parents with Tweens, kids in the 10-15 years of age. They come in, spend their $250-$1000 and never come back again.

That is GW primary focus, not GW vetreans, because either, about 99% of vetreans have bought all they will, or if they buy more they buy from other places, like discount stores (still GW gets their money) or places like E-Bay or Kijjijj (where GW gets no money at all) so GW focus isn't Vetreans. So when GW doesn't give out rumours on upcoming releaese, it doesn't effect their fan base, the rich parents. The rich parents don't care for it.

Yes I know there is a few vetreans, even on these forums who still spend $1000 a year but there is not enough of them for GW to really care about them.

I know, I said this before, and some people argue saying this isn't true, but it's funny how I go into a GW store, they will talk to me, but AS SOON as some FRESH BLOOD comes in, I am dropped like a hat and they go to them, like sharks.

GW does seem to be changing from rumours, but so far, I haven't seen that happen yet.

[fuzzbuket]

Don't you know that about 805% of statistics are made up?

and 10% of quoted statistics are quoted?

:P

-fuzz

amd onto topic, would anyone want to meet up at GDUK and have a burning effigy of tom kirby?
no?
im getting arrested?!
:(

[magickbk]

I know, I said this before, and some people argue saying this isn't true, but it's funny how I go into a GW store, they will talk to me, but AS SOON as some FRESH BLOOD comes in, I am dropped like a hat and they go to them, like sharks.

I don't want this to sound like an attack against you, but give the local GW guys a break. I worked for GW for 4 years. They go through an absurd amount of corporate training classes to be trained to give a very specific first-time experience to new people. There is then an array of various events and so forth to take that new person from clueless mall-wanderer to a GW player. From there things get muddy and the plan changes with each new corporate regime, but the idea is that you move on from the GW store to a FLGS that is closer to your house and has more veteran-type events and all. The key point to realize here is that the GW staff member has a JOB to do there, and the rest of us go hang out there. They can't afford to let anyone monopolize their time, because if they don't do the job required of them, they get fired. I now work in IT, and it is the same thing when I have a server issue, and a random office person comes to my desk to talk about the new wireless router they tried unsuccessfully to install at home over the weekend. Just remember that GW staff are often as clueless about what is going on as we are, and are as much at the mercy of faceless corporate executives, except they rely on the same for their hobby and job.

As far as not caring about veterans, we are a fickle and easily angered bunch. Many years ago, GW had a massive infrastructure for veterans. There were many more Games Days at higher quality, Tournaments galore, and lots of crazy events and summer campaigns. You know what the veteran community did? Complain. We didn't like the rules, cost to attend, food selection, alcohol limits, etc. So the community made their own conventions, tournament circuits, etc. GW saw that the veterans wanted to do their own thing, and reduced their own tournaments and endorsed the independents. You know what the veteran community did? Complain. The current situation is entirely a product of complaints of the past. The Ard Boyz tournament itself exists purely because people complained about painting being part of the scoring at GTs and so on.

GW treads a pretty steady line in terms of what it tries to do to introduce and support new people as they discover the hobby, where they are able to depending on where those people play and shop. Beyond that, it is impossible to please everybody in every country with the same stuff all the time. As a matter of fact, I recall someone once telling me that the biggest problem that the studio faced in playtesting wasn't rules balance, it was that the text in the book was interpreted differently by the culture in each country, for example, in the UK players would do whatever the book stated was allowed, whereas players in the US would try to do everything the book didn't explicitly say wasn't allowed.

The current policies are just that: current. They will be around for a while and may or may not work out, and then they will be replaced by something either better or worse. After a long time in the hobby, the cycle becomes apparent. I try to just enjoy the influx of new models, like the current plastic stuff which was unfathomable when I started.

[wittdooley]

@magicbk: Just wanted to say great post!

[Pendragon38]

HERE here ,thats a great post

[Deadlift]

Thumbs up on that post brother. Nice to read a concise and mature answer to the bleeding hearts brigade.

[Verilance]

very interesting as someone who has not kept up to date with the hobby for a number of years I had wondered what became of all the Tournaments GW used to run.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Very well said Magic

[magickbk]

very interesting as someone who has not kept up to date with the hobby for a number of years I had wondered what became of all the Tournaments GW used to run.

Yeah, it's a shame. GW had even started adding Specialist Games tournaments to the big ones, just for fun. Sometimes they would be at the same time in the same hall, and other times they would be the night before. I played in a Battlefleet Gothic Grand Tournament at the Philadelphia GT back when, and it was among the most fun I ever had playing in a tournament.

I also remember when the finals for the North American GT were held at Games Day. Back at Games Day '97 in Baltimore, there was a room where the top 4 played out, and you could just go watch. I watched the final game for about an hour. Both players were gracious and I saw no rules arguments. Both armies were stunningly painted, one was an entirely converted Dark Eldar army, before Dark Eldar existed as an army.

At a certain point, tournaments turned from being fun to being competitive. Non-player artists started entering Golden Daemon. Around that time, the veteran community seemed to split down the middle between casual and competitive, as happens with many games. Things haven't been the same since.

I also took a hiatus from the hobby, and have been following from afar as I played a few games and painted over the last few years. Although many people are complaining about the current goings on, I actually see improvement right now as GW returns in some ways to what made them really successful about 10 years ago. I've actually started to venture back out to the stores and the forums and start to get re-involved. I see the models and books improving and being released faster, and White Dwarf moving towards more useful content again. I see things being re-done properly like the Dark Eldar release instead of rushed and incomplete like the last Tyranids book. If you compare this period with others over the long term, it is starting to look like there may be a renaissance of sorts in the hobby still on the up-swing, with a darker period behind as opposed to the other way around. Yes, there are price increases. This has always happened. When I started, a plastic Space Marine was $1.00 US, and now it is $3.73 US. On the other hand, a can of Starkist Tuna on sale was $0.25 US, and now they are about $1.20 US. The quality of the current marine as compared to the old is probably greater than the difference in quality between cans of tuna (adjusted for spoilage). I guess I figure that the price is worth the improvement in model quality, as someone who really likes painting. Anyhow, I guess what I'm trying to say is that it looks like a good time to be coming back to the hobby...