IG 2,000 points for NOVA Open

[Sanguinary Dan]

HQ
Colonel Henryk Fox (a.k.a. Col. Straken) - Company Command Squad w/Carapace Armor, 2 Bodyguards, 2x Melta Guns, Flamer & Vox Caster *- in Chimera w/Multi-laser, Heavy Stubber & Heavy Flamer
Captain Corvin - Company Command Squad w/Master of Ordnance, 2x Sniper's Rifles & Vox Caster - acts as artillery observation post

ELITES
Storm Trooper Squad(6) - Bolter, Plasma Pistol, 2x Melta Guns

TROOPS
Veteran Squad w/Sergeant Garand (a.k.a. Sgt. Bastonne), 2x Plasma Gun, Sniper Rifle & Lascannon - in Chimera w/2x Heavy Bolters - objective holders and ranged *** kickers with Ld10 orders
Veteran Squad w/Sergeant Roque (a.k.a. Sgt. Harker), 2x Grenade Launchers, Melta Gun, Demolitions - outflankers or infiltrators depending upon the mission and enemy
Platoon Command Squad w/Power Fist & 4x Grenade Launchers - in Chimera w/Multi-laser & Heavy Flamer
Infantry Platoon
**Commissar Tennyson w/Power Sword *****
**Squad A w/Power Sword, Grenade Launcher & Vox Caster
**Squad B w/Power Sword & Melta Gun
**Squad C w/Power Sword & Melta Gun
**Heavy Machine Gun Section (a.k.a. HWS) w/3x Autocannons

FAST ATTACK
Devil Dog w/bow Multi-melta
Hellhound w/bow Heavy Flamer

HEAVY SUPPORT
Leman Russ w/bow Heavy Bolter & sponson Plasma Cannons
Manticore MLRS w/bow Heavy Flamer


A few notes and a bit of background on the list.
After playing quite a few games and running a pretty even win loss (loses to assault armies that I failed to stop from reaching my lines undamaged, what a surprise! :doh!: ) and some very frustrating ties I think I've finally got a list I can game with in a tournament.

I love Col. Straken. The boost he gives to the power blob and the damage his squad does on their own make him worth every point. And having a mini-monstrous creature leading your CCS means even Marines get nervous around him. The second HQ is purely an artillery observation squad. I'll probably drop the Sniper Rifles just to reduce their perceived threat level and not make me worry about silly target choices.

The two Veteran Squads might be expensive but they both are very effective. Surprisingly so actually. Bastonne can operate without any concerns for distance from an officer and tends to shoot the helll out of anything in range. And Harker is just plain fun. Rolling in from a flank and blasting away at any type of target. Good times.

The Blob is a 31 man power blob. What more do you need to say. When, and if, the HWS accepts orders they are bloody scary. The PCS continues it's streak as my ultimate transport destroyer unit. These guys have bagged so many Rhinos, Razorbacks, Chimeras and Trukks that I wouldn't have enough room on their Chimera to mark them all.

The Hellhound variants are magic. If I drop the Storm Troopers it will be a toss up between adding another one of these or some sort of artillery. The only one I haven't tried is the Bane Wolf. But at 145 with the Mulit-melta it's a little pricey. Sadly. I've finally given up on making the Vendetta a part of my army list. So I've got the Storm Trooper test squad. Three Lascannons on such a fragile and hyper-visible target just never reached the in game effectiveness that the cool factor of the model seemed to promise. :(

So now I get to the part where I ask you guys for your opinions. The Storm Troopers could be replaced by a Hellhound hull or a Basilisk or... :confused: I could even drop some other things to get the points for some other unit, but I'd like to stay in the <=140 point range.

[Commander Vimes]

It's a cool fluffy list, but it's going to get rolled by most of the competitive builds at NOVA.


HQ
Colonel Henryk Fox (a.k.a. Col. Straken) - Company Command Squad w/Carapace Armor, 2 Bodyguards, 2x Melta Guns, Flamer & Vox Caster *- in Chimera w/Multi-laser, Heavy Stubber & Heavy Flamer
I find carapace overpriced even for Straken, but the unit is generally just fine.


Captain Corvin - Company Command Squad w/Master of Ordnance, 2x Sniper's Rifles & Vox Caster - acts as artillery observation post

Master of Ordnance is rather useless. Yes he's a 30 point Basilisk, but he's a Basilisk that is almost incapable of hitting the intended target. Once your opponent reaches midfield you're as likely to hit your own guys as his.


ELITES
Storm Trooper Squad(6) - Bolter, Plasma Pistol, 2x Melta Guns
Deepstriking Storm Troopers are solid, but the bolter, plasma pistol and 6th guy are all excessive points on a suicide unit. Keep it cheap. Drop in, kill a threatening vehicle, die horrible bloody death for the Emperor.

TROOPS

Veteran Squad w/Sergeant Garand (a.k.a. Sgt. Bastonne), 2x Plasma Gun, Sniper Rifle & Lascannon - in Chimera w/2x Heavy Bolters - objective holders and ranged *** kickers with Ld10 orders
This unit is completely without focus. Are you trying to hit infantry at long range with the sniper? Or vehicles with the lascannon? Or deliver rapid-fire plasma where it's needed most? It tries to do three things at once, and ends up doing none of them well, and costing more than a Grey Hunter squad. Stick to all plasma for heavy infantry, or snipers and an Autocannon for anti-infantry. Also, Bastonne is vastly overpriced. 60 points to give yourself an order that could come from one of your 2 CCSs? His other abilities aren't worth mentioning either.



Veteran Squad w/Sergeant Roque (a.k.a. Sgt. Harker), 2x Grenade Launchers, Melta Gun, Demolitions - outflankers or infiltrators depending upon the mission and enemy
Again you suffer from multiple roles. Are you trying to Outflank meltas to ambush the enemy? Then take three meltas and make sure it's done right. Demolitions is really best when trying to alpha strike with a Valkyrie. If your opponent doesn't move a vehicle near a board edge knowing they're coming, he deserves what he gets. I've used Harker a decent bit and found Outflanking useful, and all the other abilities useless. In the end I dropped him for a Valkyrie which performs the Outflanking melta job better.


Platoon Command Squad w/Power Fist & 4x Grenade Launchers - in Chimera w/Multi-laser & Heavy Flamer
A powerfist in a 5 wound squad? A charging fire warrior squad is probably still going to beat you in close combat. Also, if you want to kill light vehicles: take autocannons, if you want to kill heavy vehicles: take melta, if you want your opponent to giggle: take grenade launchers. If these guys are your premier transport killers then I'd love to have your dice. Given that the squad averages .33 pens and .33 glances on a Rhino in the open, you can't even consistently shake the target.

Infantry Platoon
**Commissar Tennyson w/Power Sword *****
**Squad A w/Power Sword, Grenade Launcher & Vox Caster
**Squad B w/Power Sword & Melta Gun
**Squad C w/Power Sword & Melta Gun

I love power blobs. The grenade launcher is awkward and useless. Give them a third melta to improve their chances of killing vehicles.


**Heavy Machine Gun Section (a.k.a. HWS) w/3x Autocannons
5-10 Heavy weapons Squads is scary. One is an easy target for anything with Str.6. With HWS go all out or get your anti-light tank elsewhere.


FAST ATTACK
Devil Dog w/bow Multi-melta
Hellhound w/bow Heavy Flamer
I think these work better with more chimeras to give them cover, but they're solid choices.


HEAVY SUPPORT
Leman Russ w/bow Heavy Bolter & sponson Plasma Cannons
Manticore MLRS w/bow Heavy Flamer
I've used that Russ set-up for a while and found it to be solid. Manticores are always terrifying.

I'm not trying to be excessively harsh here, but this list has a lot of poorly spent points and a general lack of synergy. You don't have nearly enough infantry to cause people trouble and not enough vehicles to overload a strong balanced list's target priority. For reference, my 2k Guard list has over 120 infantry, including 80 in blobs, and 9 AV12 vehicles. Most armies can deal with the vehicles or the infantry without excessive difficulty, but are challenged by both at once. Your list is roughly equivalent in armor, but far doesn't have close to the massed infantry to back it up. In a hyper competitive environment like NOVA, the majority of armies there will roll you on list alone, baring extreme generalship or luck disparities.

My recommendation for increasing the competitiveness of your army would be to consider how you want to overload the enemy. If you want to do it with mech, then you'll want a minimum of 12 vehicles on the board, preferably more. If you want infantry, then I'd say three power blobs with at least 5 autocannon HWTs as a core with Straken. My hybrid approach is a bit heavier on infantry. In general, for a hybrid approach you'll want at least two good sized power blobs. I've found having another cheap one to screen with is very helpful. Chimera hulls are the best way to get lots of vehicles on the board to support the infantry. So I mount up all the company and platoon command squads I can and outfit them with melta or plasma for delivering high strength fire where I need it. For heavy support I like Hydras and Griffon as they're cheap effective hulls. The general idea as many cheap vehicles and guardsmen as possible.

Restructuring the list with one of these specific goals in mind improves the synergy of the army. One HWS is chum, 5 is troublesome, and 10 is terrify to all light vehicles. One blob can be ignored or routed by a good assault unit. A pair of them hiding behind a screen will take an assault army several turns to slog through at high cost. Three chimeras die. Eight full of special weapons advancing behind russes for cover and supported by midrange multi-melta fire from Hellhound chassis is a strong armored attack. Make sure all the units in the list fit the theme, and you'll be in great shape.

Good luck!

[Sanguinary Dan]

:mad: DON'T be dissin' my Grenade Launchers boy!

;)

A few modifications and justifications.
HQ
Colonel Henryk Fox (a.k.a. Col. Straken) - Company Command Squad w/Carapace Armor, 2 Bodyguards, 2x Melta Guns, Flamer & Vox Caster *- in Chimera w/Multi-laser, Heavy Stubber & Heavy Flamer - The Carapace has paid for itself over and over. Particularly if the Chimera gets nailed before I dismount or when facing regular infantry in CC.
Captain Corvin - Company Command Squad w/Master of Ordnance, Missile Launcher - acts as artillery observation post - Oops, I meant to fix the unit weapons mix before I posted. The MoO and the Msl. both benefit from Bring it Down! and if the big boom scatters that's usually okay too. These guys sit back, toss their shots and give orders to the .50 calibers.

ELITES
Storm Trooper Squad(6) - Bolter, 2x Plasma Guns - Based on your and other's comments I'm focusing these guys a bit more on smacking enemy fire support. The Plasma Guns do a decent job against rear armor and a great job against infantry. It takes only a little bad luck to end up more than 6" away from a tank during DS and then the Meltas just didn't cut it. I guess I could reduce it to a 5 man if I need points elsewhere.

TROOPS
Veteran Squad w/Sergeant Garand (a.k.a. Sgt. Bastonne), 2x Plasma Gun, Sniper Rifle & Lascannon - in Chimera w/2x Heavy Bolters - objective holders and ranged tail kickers with Ld10 orders - Against AV12 and less this squad does a great job of AT work. Early in the game they target transports and flyers. And while Bastonne is a gazillion points, his Ld10 and super ATSKNF let me hold a flank with little concern for placement (or loss) of CCSs. I suppose I could replace him with a basic Sarge and use the points for...?
Veteran Squad w/Sergeant Roque (a.k.a. Sgt. Harker), Shotguns, 2x Grenade Launchers, Melta Gun, Demolitions - outflankers or infiltrators depending upon the mission and enemy - Too much fun not to use. :D And their weapons mix is because I decided early on that they had to be able to damage anything they ran into, though with most of their strength focussed against infantry.

Platoon Command Squad w/Power Fist & 4x Grenade Launchers - in Chimera w/Multi-laser & Heavy Flamer - I like GLs. And, yes, it's mostly luck in killing vehicles. But with seven S6 shots coming from the squad and the Chimera my odds are pretty good. And, find me a single infantry squad that enjoys getting hit by 4 blasts. The number of dice this can generate when people bunch up in cover or whatever is quite impressive. Against Mobz, other Blobs and Bugs this unit can cause mass casualties. AND the Power Fist LT has a swagger stick. Need I say more?:cool:
Infantry Platoon
Commissar Tennyson w/Power Sword
Squad A w/Power Sword, Grenade Launcher & Vox Caster
Squad B w/Power Sword & Melta Gun
Squad C w/Power Sword & Melta Gun
Heavy Machine Gun Section (a.k.a. HWS) w/3x Autocannons - I could attach the autocannons to the blob for those turns where moving isn't required? But I don't really know if that makes sense in a Straken powered blob. Though it would probably leave me enough points for a cheap SWS.

FAST ATTACK
Devil Dog w/bow Multi-melta
Hellhound w/bow Heavy Flamer

HEAVY SUPPORT
Leman Russ w/bow Heavy Bolter & sponson Plasma Cannons
Manticore MLRS w/bow Heavy Flamer

[Sanguinary Dan]

Possible modifications.

1). Drop Bastonne and his squad (Chimera goes to #2 HQ) for fourth infantry squad plus Commissar to allow formation of two 21 man blobs. Remaining points go to pair of Recon Sentinels.

1a). Use points for Basilisk and another Chimera.

1b) Use points for second Leman Russ. Only question is which version fits best with remainder of list?

[Sanguinary Dan]

I've modified the heck out of the list based on multiple games including last night. I was beating the hell out of the Orks (Ghaz, Snikrot, Mad Doc and the Vulcha guy along with Kommandos, Koptas, Grots and Cyb-Ork Nob Bikerz) when the Nob Bikerz finally arrived on turn 5. By the end of turn 7 all he had left was a single biker who chased my Blob (9 survivors out of 31) off my objective after winning combat by 1. I rolled an 11, shot a Sergeant and rolled... You guessed it. Another 11. Too funny. :doh!: Sad. But funny.

Here's the updated list.
HQ
Col. Henryk Fox (a.k.a. Col. Straken) - Company Command Squad w/Carapace Armor, 2 Bodyguards, 2x Melta Guns, Flamer & Vox Caster - in Chimera w/Multi-laser, Heavy Stubber & Heavy Flamer
Capt. Corvin - CCS w/Heavy Bolter & Master of Ordnance - in Chimera w/two Heavy Bolters

ELITES
Storm Troopers (6) w/Bolter & 2x Plasma Guns

TROOPS
Veteran Squad (Sgt. Harker) w/Shotguns, Melta Gun, 2x Grenade Launchers, Demolitions - I tried Bastonne for a while. Loved his Orders and LD10, but the Squad was edging toward 200 points as I kept trying to increase their survival time. Just not worth it. Harker is way more flexible and can be excellent in combination with the Storm Troopers.
Platoon Command Squad w/Power Fist & 4x Grenade Launchers - in Chimera w/Multi-laser & Heavy Flamer
Infantry Platoon
Commissar Tennyson w/Power Sword
Squad A w/Power Sword, Melta Bombs, Grenade Launcher & Vox Caster
Squad B w/Power Sword & Melta Gun
Squad C w/Power Sword & Melta Gun
Combat Engineers Squad (a.k.a. SWS) w/2x Melta Guns & Flamer - in Platoon Chimera w/Multi-laser & Heavy Flamer - Why the hell can't these guys get grenades? The f-ing HWS gets Frags and can buy Krak. But not the SWS? :furious:

FAST ATTACK
Hellhound w/Heavy Flamer & Smoke Launchers - Generally in reserve for defense against high mobility and deep striking enemies.
Devil Dog w/Multi-melta & Smoke Launchers
Scout Sentinel Squadron (2) w/Multi-lasers
I can mix and match any flavor or variant of the Hellhound chassis. The Hellhound has won my heart by murdering everything I send it after. It's killed transports, bikes, squads and even MCs. The Devil Dog draws so much fire that it hasn't fired a shot in 4 games. :wow: But I still love the little beggar.

HEAVY SUPPORT
Leman Russ MBT w/bow Lascannon & sponson Heavy Bolters
Hydra SPAA w/Heavy Bolter
Manticore MLRS w/Heavy Flamer

Comments, critiques and compliments are all welcome.

[weeble1000]

I will echo Vimes. The list looks really cool and fluffy, but it walks away from many of the inherent strengths of the Imperial Guard.

Vimes has said it, but I am always terribly adamant that my units have a specific role and only the upgrades required to achieve their goals. The points saved on investing in upgrades can be put back into redundancy. One of the real strengths of the IG Codex is that it has cheap troops that can be variously kitted out for specific battlefield roles. They aren't terribly resilient, but they are cheap enough to afford multiples.

Not only does focusing a unit on a specific role economize points and their effectiveness on the table, it also forces you to play much more tightly.

The power blob is a fine way to go. I don't play it because it doesn't jive with my personal style, but it is an effective strategy. You can put more power weapons into the blob by adding more commissars if you want to.

I also don't like vox casters. I used them in 4th ed, but they are next to worthless in 5th. It can suck when an important order doesn't work, but the odds are low and the cost of voxes adds up. Plus, Straken is going to be in your opponent's face with your power blob, not sitting in the back with your heavy weapons, if I understand your list design, so what orders are you trying to give your power blob that are so important you need to spend points on voxes?

Shotgun vets are cool but I only take them because I like the modeling. Veterans are very, very weak in assault, even when you hose down a unit with shotgun and melta fire before moving in. With shotguns you swap range for an assault weapon, which is only useful if you plan on assaulting, and in my experience it leads to more problems than it solves. Plus, in a pinch you can FRFSRF on your lasgun vets, but not so if they're packing shotties. If you are going to be engaged in an assault, you want it to be on your opponent's turn, not your own. So if you hose down a dwindling SM combat squad and there's still a P-fist sergeant standing, hold off the assault and let him come to you on his turn. If things go badly and your guys lose combat and fail leadership, you can still kill the jerk on your turn instead of seeing him assault something else before you get a chance to shoot back.

Scout sentinels are fine, and with Multi Lasers they won't seem like much of a threat, but they won't accomplish a whole lot either. The points might be better spent elsewhere. They'll get plenty of shots with two Multi Lasers, but they'd get more with three. At BS 3 you're going to need fire volume to accomplish much as Str 6, even with side and rear armor shots. At AV 10: 6 shots, three hit, 1 penetrates. Then you have to hope for a good result on the damage table. If they outflank, the sentinels won't be on the table for long, so they need to do their job quickly. Consider taking autocannons on the sentinels. It's only 5 points more and Str 7 will give you some more flexibility. You'll lose fire volume, but I think the math works out in favor of the AC, especially if you only have AV 11 or 12 targets.

People have different opinions about sponsons on the leman russ. I'm a minimal upgrades kind of guy, so I don't take them, certainly not in 5th ed. A LRBT has a 72" range, so it can effectively target the entire table as long as it has LOS. This makes it great for sticking it in the back of your deployment zone with its vulnerable rear armor protected by a table edge. Alternatively, you can use it's solid front and side armor to help protect the rest of your army and stick it out in front. Either way, you aren't making much use of the sponsons. If you are moving the tank forward, you can only fire one additional weapon. If you're leaving it back, you won't have the sponsons in range of anything. Plus, you generally want to move your tanks just in case. Auto hit in CC sucks with rear armor 10.

Then there's the issue of what you're shooting at. If you are dropping a Str 8 AP 3 pie plate on something, is that something you also want to put 3 hvy bolter shots into? Sometimes that might be true, but you can always go with a hull hvy bolter for free. It you want the tank to hit vehicles and you put a lascannon on it, you are probably going to want to hit the same target with the lascannon as the battle cannon. The battle cannon is flexible, which is one of its big advantages, and adding a lascannon and hvy bolters can support this flexibility, but you are investing a healthy chunk of points into a weapon you will only use situationally. Sponsons also increase the footprint of the tank, making it more unwieldy. I never liked this.

I generally run my russes plane jane with a hull heavy flamer. Heavy flamers are free and can be game changers in the right situation. A heavy bolter is just a few more unremarkable shots. If you lose the turret, you've got an AV 14 monster for tank shock, ramming, and cover saves and you can turn that flamer on bunched up squads falling out of transports, or pesky troops going to ground on an objective in cover.

You are right about the Hell Hound. Those suckers are flipping money. They can be terrible fire magnets as well, but that can also be advantageous. Sometimes my Hell Hound's greatest service has been to take pressure off of more important elements of the army. It is a fast, mean threat that an opponent really shouldn't ignore.

Edit: Also, since you are taking this to NOVA, you might want to think about a more diverse selection of troop units and mobile units. You are going to need to play for objectives and right now you've got 4 separate troop units, assuming you blob the infantry squads. Overall, you've got 13 units, but many of them are rather static. Your Storm Troopers are a suicide unit, so if they do their job they won't be around for long. The Sentinels will also likely take an easy beating and not help to secure table quarters. The Manticore is also not likely to move. A lot of your points are tied up in a power blob with Straken for support and that is going to get thrown in your opponent's face. This is good for the center objective and maybe one in your opponent's deployment zone. The blob will also not be able to hold more than one table quarter. Just something to think about.

[Sanguinary Dan]

Hmmm, lots of good points. Let me see if I can address the things I don't want to change before we move on to the stuff I'm willing to change.

The Vox Casters, sponsons and Shotguns are purely in use for the Rule of Cool. To my mind an HQ should have a radio and the Blob can make use of nearly any of the orders. Just for the near certain chance to use First Rank - Second Rank with 23 lasguns or to be sure that Get Back in the Fight works I'll happily spend 10 points. The Leman Russ without sponsons just looks wrong to me. I know a lot of folks don't like them, but I always have. Harker's boys have Shotguns because... Well, they have Shotguns. Besides, if I'm within 12" of Straken they can make a pretty effective assault unit.

So assuming I drop the Sentinels what do I do with the 70 points? I don't own any Scout versions with auto cannons so I can't just find the points and swap them. In terms of mobility I'm not sure how I'd address that. I've got 4 Chimeras and 2 fast tanks along with three units capable of Deep Strike and/or Infiltration. So where do I go from here?
What if I replace the Sentinels and the Hydra (or 2nd HQ Chimera) with another Hellhound or variant? I've got another HH w/Multi-melta and a DD w/Heavy Flamer & Heavy Stubber as well as a Bane Wolf w/Multi-melta. Any needed additional points could come out of the more expensive weapons in squads. Another thought was to use those points plus the 2nd HQ to add a Demolisher. The Chimera would just be added to the Platoon or become an Armored Sentinel.

[Sanguinary Dan]

Here's the latest update to the updated list.
HQ
Col. Henryk Fox (a.k.a. Col. Straken) - Company Command Squad w/Carapace Armor, 2 Bodyguards, 2x Melta Guns, Flamer & Vox Caster - in Chimera w/Multi-laser, Heavy Stubber & Heavy Flamer
D'angelo Corvinus (Primarus Psyker) - I'm thinking he will ride with the PCS (or the SWS?). The idea of adding 2d6 BS4 shots at S6 to the 7 the PCS and it's Chimera is really appealing.

ELITES
Storm Troopers (6) w/Bolter & 2x Plasma Guns

TROOPS
Veteran Squad (Sgt. Harker) w/Shotguns, Melta Gun, 2x Grenade Launchers, Demolitions -
Platoon Command Squad w/Power Fist & 4x Grenade Launchers - in Chimera w/Multi-laser & Heavy Flamer
Infantry Platoon
Commissar Tennyson w/Power Sword
Squad A w/Power Sword, Melta Bombs, Grenade Launcher & Vox Caster
Squad B w/Power Sword & Melta Gun
Squad C w/Power Sword & Melta Gun
Combat Engineers Squad (a.k.a. SWS) w/2x Melta Guns & Demolition Charge - turn 1 they will jump in Platoon Chimera w/Multi-laser & Heavy Flamer


FAST ATTACK
Hellhound w/Heavy Flamer, Searchlight & Smoke Launchers
Devil Dog w/Multi-melta, Searchlight & Smoke Launchers
Devil Dog w/Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber & Smoke Launchers - Generally in reserve for defense against high mobility and deep striking enemies.

HEAVY SUPPORT
Leman Russ MBT w/bow Lascannon & sponson Heavy Bolters
Hydra SPAA w/Heavy Bolter
Manticore MLRS w/Heavy Flamer

Comments, critiques and compliments are all welcome.

[Sanguinary Dan]

Well... The list went 3/5/0 at the tournament. Mainly because I made several damned fool mistakes. One being that Blobs and Vet squads should never be close enough to allow Castellan Crowe and a unit of Purifiers to multi-charge them. No duh, hmm. And so I've made one more change to the list.

The mixed weapon Devil Dog has be replaced by what it replaced, a Vendetta with Heavy Bolters. This way I can start the SWS mounted and then depending on situation attach the Primaris to them or to the PCS.