1850pt Tyranid Monstrous Creature List

[zro1312]

Head Quarters:
Tervigon w/ catalyst
Elites:
3 Hive Guard
6 Ymgarl Genestealers
6 Ymgarl Genestealers
Troop Choice:
3x Tyranid Warriors w/ deathspitters and Venom Cannon
Tervigon w/ catalyst
10 Termagaunts
Fast Attack:
10 Gargoyles w/ Toxin Sacs
10 Gargoyles w/ Toxin Sacs
5 Raveners w/ deathspitters
Heavy Support:
Carnifex w/ 2x Scything Talons
Carnifex w/ 2x Scything Talons
Trygon Prime

This is my second attempt at creating an 1850pt Tyranid Army. The idea is to have the carnifexes charge up the field screened by the gargoyles who will be getting FNP by the 2 Tervigons. The Hive Guard run behind the carnifexes to avoid being seen. The Genestealers are to scare the enemy from going into cover near their side. The Trygon Prime deepstrikes in and soaks up fire and then the raveners use his tunnel and destroy people when they come in with the deathspitters. The Tervigons throw termagaunts 18 inches towards objectives on the last turn and the warriors cover an objective screened by the 10 termagaunts already there.
However, recently I've been getting miserably destroyed by destroyer heavy necron armies, tau armies, and leman russ heavy guard armies and I wanted to know what was recommended to change in the list to combat these three armies. The most important is combating the necrons. Thank you very much for the help!

[Kawauso]

Well this list doesn't look too bad so far, but I have a couple of critiques to make, as well as sort of a general question of my own.

Firstly, the Raveners can't use the Trygon's tunnel. They're beasts, and unfortunately only infantry can use the Trygon's tunnel as per the Subterranean Assault rule. Sucks, I know, especially since Raveners are basically mini-Trygons, but there you have it.

Next, and this is sort of a general question regarding a lot of tactics I see people talk about, but how exactly do you screen Carnifexes with Gargoyles? Or keep Hive Guard hidden behind 'fexes? True line of sight is pretty punishing if you're trying to hide models behind one another, I've always found. And I particularly find it hard to use little gribblies to give cover saves to bigger units with 'nids - similarly, I don't understand how Necron players manage to 'screen' units with scarabs. TLOS rules are pretty clear about cover only being granted when models in a unit are 50% obscured, and I just don't see how gargoyles can obscure 50% of a 'fex, or brood of them, for that matter. Am I missing something?

Aside from that, though, your list looks fairly solid. You'll have trouble with armour until you get up close, of course, particularly with only one brood of Hive Guard, but that's 'nids for ya.
Though I wouldn't be too sure about Deep Strike with the Trygon if you're not using a Hive Commander Tyrant. Maybe I've just grown too accustomed to starting my reserve rolls on a 3+.

[chicop76]

Well this list doesn't look too bad so far, but I have a couple of critiques to make, as well as sort of a general question of my own.

Firstly, the Raveners can't use the Trygon's tunnel. They're beasts, and unfortunately only infantry can use the Trygon's tunnel as per the Subterranean Assault rule. Sucks, I know, especially since Raveners are basically mini-Trygons, but there you have it.

Next, and this is sort of a general question regarding a lot of tactics I see people talk about, but how exactly do you screen Carnifexes with Gargoyles? Or keep Hive Guard hidden behind 'fexes? True line of sight is pretty punishing if you're trying to hide models behind one another, I've always found. And I particularly find it hard to use little gribblies to give cover saves to bigger units with 'nids - similarly, I don't understand how Necron players manage to 'screen' units with scarabs. TLOS rules are pretty clear about cover only being granted when models in a unit are 50% obscured, and I just don't see how gargoyles can obscure 50% of a 'fex, or brood of them, for that matter. Am I missing something?

Aside from that, though, your list looks fairly solid. You'll have trouble with armour until you get up close, of course, particularly with only one brood of Hive Guard, but that's 'nids for ya.
Though I wouldn't be too sure about Deep Strike with the Trygon if you're not using a Hive Commander Tyrant. Maybe I've just grown too accustomed to starting my reserve rolls on a 3+.

Scarabs can screen all, but can't screen spyders, necron gods, and the monlith, for the 50% rule to take place.

Now I can't see how you can really hide hiveguard in that wall unless you do build your base in a way to block line of sight. This doesn't fly because the book says a big fat no on mobile terrain blocking line of sight.

The gurgoyles can give a carnifex a cover save if he puts some on the base, a few on short stems and a few on tall stems. It can be done as long as you can't see 50% of the model.

Being nids the list is going to fail. With this build it will fail really bad. It need scoring units and the carnifex isn't as good as it use to be. 1 tervigon isn't really going to help and need poison and furious charge so your gaunts within 6" of it will get the ability as well.

A monsterous 1850 list would be something like this

Hq
Tervigon: glands, sacs, cat

Elite
Deathleaper
3x hive guard
3x zonathoropes

Troops
Tervigon: glands, sacs, cat
Tervigon: glands, sacs, cat
10 gaunts
10 gaunts
8 stealers, broodlord

Heavy
Trygon prime
Tyrannofex: rupture
Tyrannofex: rupture

Something like 6 MCs can be called a nidzilla.

I'm almost appaulled that one of the best troop heavy armies barely have any troops.

[zro1312]

I have a question about the list you posted, why have a deathleaper if only the Trygon Prime can deepstrike?

[chicop76]

I have a question about the list you posted, why have a deathleaper if only the Trygon Prime can deepstrike?

1. To rely on a leaper for the +1 reserve roll and accurate deep strike I have to sit on the board a whole turn and then those effects go off. Not a good reason to use any lictor.
2. The main reason is for anti psyhood. Most armies only take 1 psyhood, so by lowering the hood to leadership 7-9 my powers have a better chance of going off. So that's a + 1-3 to vs a hood meaning at best if I die off against the other player a 3 would win all the time and if I roll a 2 my opponent would need a 6 to beat a 2.
3. The leadership power also allows bone swords to have a better chance of working.
4. Two strength 6 attacks hitting rear armour a 6" with rending, an I have taken out several vehicles like this.
5. Next turn if it's still alive and active it can take out vehicles rather easy at strength 6.
6. Can move anywhere on the board and can contest objectives
7. To see the model it's night fight /2. So at best a unit can see the Deathleaper 18" away and on average 10-11" away, so a lot of wasted fire trying to kill this guy.
8. +2 cover save if going to ground. I had used this tactic to tie up heavy weapons teams all game long. They don't want to assault for fear of losing the squad and by the model being in their face they would waste fire trying to kill it.
9. Slows down the enemy moving through terrain. Real god ability with a venomthorpe nearby.

I can go on, but I tend to play one a lot. I don't expect it to earn it's points back and use it to contest and as a distraction. Marines really don't like it if you park this guy right behind that predator or whirlwind. In one game I had one deathleaper take out a Vendetta, Demolisher Russ, Chimera, and a Creed command squad all by itself. I think it was angry, because the guard player said it was worthless. Also I lowered Creed leadership to 8 which was slightly helpful with him failing a few orders here and there.

Also found the deathleaper is wonderful to place near tau broadsides. Taking 2-3 railguns out of the fight is always a wonderful thing.

[zro1312]

would it be more effective to use 2 regular lictors for 10 less points then the deathleaper?

[chicop76]

would it be more effective to use 2 regular lictors for 10 less points then the deathleaper?
1. Lictors don't have all of the same abilities as a deathleaper
2. An entire army can fire upon a lictor, while with a deathleaper the army will lose shots trying to see to hit th unit. The differance is the lictors can get hit with apid fire and the deathleaper have like a 50%chance of not being seen and wasting that units shooting options.
3. Lictors can't lower leadership.
4. Deathleapers rend on 5s and 6s.

[zro1312]

Thanks a lot