dizzy_xc
07-23-2011, 09:02 PM
This is a forum proposal for a new SM tank that I am planning on building. Feedback and C/C would be appreciated.
I'm sure you've seen the Fellblades, Stormhammers and Land Raider Exterminus Tanks. All amazing models, but the problem with most super heavy Apoc style Space Marine Tanks is that they run into several well established guidelines that makes them unsuitable. I've listed a few below in bold to discuss them.
Rapid Strike/Deployment. Ever since Papa Smurf got a hold of the tactical doctrine and released the codex astartes, there hasnt really been a place for a slow ponderous superheavy tank for the Astartes. It flies in the face of their rapid strike doctrine. This, however hasnt always been the case. The original 20 legions were issued superheavy tanks. The problem is we arnt happy with the Fellblade. And if there were a different Superheavy tank, most were probably destroyed in the Heresy and were not replaced. So IF they had something like a Fellblade but more in style with a Landraider, we havent seen it.
Legio Titanicus: Space Marines cant use Titans.
Transport to and from Warzone: Whatever the Space Marines use, it has to be able to be transported to and from the battlefield using existing transports as the Stormbird isnt used anymore. So if it doesnt fit under the Thunderhawk Transporter, it aint gonna roll.
Space Marine Tech:This Super Heavy has to use Space Marine tech weapon parts and supplies in order to be suitable for supply continuity; i.e., I don't think it would be good form to put a massive IG canon on top when Space Marines dont normally use that ammo.
Apoc Style: There is a glaring hole for Space Marine Super Heavies here. Whatever is designed must fit the bill and all the above without breaking any of the guidlines...
Choices: So where does that leave us choice wise? We need a super heavy that we havent yet seen that probably belongs to an original Legion, one that can utilize a thunderhawk transporter and be instantly recognizable as a Space Marine tank. Other projects like the Fellblades and Land Raider Exterminus just dont cut the mustard. While the following are fine and amazing tanks in their own right, here are some examples where they either cannot follow Space Marine doctrine like outlined above, as in being able to be transported rapidly or using Space Marine Tech only: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/12/40k-showcase-imperial-fists-fellblade.html and the Exterminus: http://s3.zetaboards.com/The_Ammobunker/single/?p=8069731&t=7127732
The Land Raider made into a Superheavy needs to have the following three things to work: 2-3 structure points and the firepower to fit Apoc, the look of a true Space Marine Tank without the dakka making it too orky, and the ability to use existing transport craft to get in and out of warzones rapidly. So here's how to mesh it all together...
The Land Raider Exterminus style is attractive because it's easily recognizable as a Space Marine Tank, has the firepower and structure points to fit Apoc, but fails in that the damned thing is just too big to fit under a Thunderhawk Transporter to be deployed rapidly to and from a warzone. So it fails in that respect. But all is not lost.
Take the same principle of making the Land Raider bigger, but keep it sized to where it will fit under the Thunderhawk Transporter. The way to do this is to make the land raider 1.5 inches longer and 1 inch wider. Call it the Battle Raider and it would have 3x open side sponson holes the 1st of which holds a twin linked lascanon just like the MkIIb FW design. But instead of directly behind that lascannon having the rhino door, there is another side sponson that allows direct forward firing clearing the 1st side sponson. Behind that is the rhino side door. That comprises all 3 side sponson openings along the lengthened LR Track.
Now that is is wider, a demolisher canon is added to the front above where the assault doors are and next to it a twin linked assault cannon. There is room for one style turret on the top of the Battle Raider and that is the Predator style, due to the way the Thunderhawk transporter's belly is designed. That gives you a twin Linked Lascannon turret on top. So the stats for this vehicle could be as follows:
Battle Raider
Points?
BS4 AV F:14 S:14 R:14
Structure Points: 2-3
Transport capacity: 12-16 Marines?
Weapons:
Turret mounted Twin Linked Lascannon
4 Side Sponson Twin Linked Lascannon
Front mounted Demolisher Cannon
Front Turretted Twin Linked Assault Cannon/Hvy Bolter?
Options:
The front two Sponsons can be configured to any variant pattern Land Raider that Space Marine Chapters use. Also, the turret, if retained and not replaced by a Helios or Hyperios can be configured to any variant pattern Predator turret that Space Marine Chapters use. Vehicle upgrades as per normal.
Also kicking around the idea of having an option to replace the transport capacity for a Void Shield. Although I wonder if having a MotF or Techmarine with a buncha servitors riding inside repairing stuff would be better than a void shield...
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/BradCrabtree/BattleRaider.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/BradCrabtree/Battleraider2.jpg
Note that this top view, below, has the Turret offset located more or less behind the Front Turret Twin Linked Hvy Bolters which is contrary to the pic above which has the turret located behind the Demolisher Canon. I feel this balances the aesthetic look better. Also note that I have used MK V Lascannon side sponsons for the top down view instead of the MKIIb version. I did this for simplicity, although I am convinced that the MKIIb would look better/cleaner.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/BradCrabtree/BattleRaider3top.jpg
The dimensions of this Battle Raider are roughly 1" wider in the hull between the tracks and overall 1.5" longer than a stock LR. The overall width is unknown when including the sidesponsons because the MK IIb sponsons (these are the ones I plan on using) are narrower and slimmer than the MK V pictured above in the last photo.
I tried to imagine how a Chapter would use this tank and dedicated Titan and Bunker Busting scenarios come to mind firstly. But adding a super heavy canon in the front is not a weapon the space marines use on a tank, so I didnt want to include it. Still, the modability of the configuration of this Battle Raider are quite extensive allowing for just about any kind of mission parameter suitability.
It is my hope that I get help from forum members deciding exactly its final configuration and the points cost. I have already purchased the Land Raider, the doors, the Liberator Ver. 1.0 tracks (which will help it fit in with my planned pre-heresy fluff making it more of a Land Raider Mk 1.5 super heavy with the tracks going all the way around the tank) and am waiting for them to arrive before I begin building this Battle Raider. I hope you find this proposal to your liking.
I'm sure you've seen the Fellblades, Stormhammers and Land Raider Exterminus Tanks. All amazing models, but the problem with most super heavy Apoc style Space Marine Tanks is that they run into several well established guidelines that makes them unsuitable. I've listed a few below in bold to discuss them.
Rapid Strike/Deployment. Ever since Papa Smurf got a hold of the tactical doctrine and released the codex astartes, there hasnt really been a place for a slow ponderous superheavy tank for the Astartes. It flies in the face of their rapid strike doctrine. This, however hasnt always been the case. The original 20 legions were issued superheavy tanks. The problem is we arnt happy with the Fellblade. And if there were a different Superheavy tank, most were probably destroyed in the Heresy and were not replaced. So IF they had something like a Fellblade but more in style with a Landraider, we havent seen it.
Legio Titanicus: Space Marines cant use Titans.
Transport to and from Warzone: Whatever the Space Marines use, it has to be able to be transported to and from the battlefield using existing transports as the Stormbird isnt used anymore. So if it doesnt fit under the Thunderhawk Transporter, it aint gonna roll.
Space Marine Tech:This Super Heavy has to use Space Marine tech weapon parts and supplies in order to be suitable for supply continuity; i.e., I don't think it would be good form to put a massive IG canon on top when Space Marines dont normally use that ammo.
Apoc Style: There is a glaring hole for Space Marine Super Heavies here. Whatever is designed must fit the bill and all the above without breaking any of the guidlines...
Choices: So where does that leave us choice wise? We need a super heavy that we havent yet seen that probably belongs to an original Legion, one that can utilize a thunderhawk transporter and be instantly recognizable as a Space Marine tank. Other projects like the Fellblades and Land Raider Exterminus just dont cut the mustard. While the following are fine and amazing tanks in their own right, here are some examples where they either cannot follow Space Marine doctrine like outlined above, as in being able to be transported rapidly or using Space Marine Tech only: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/12/40k-showcase-imperial-fists-fellblade.html and the Exterminus: http://s3.zetaboards.com/The_Ammobunker/single/?p=8069731&t=7127732
The Land Raider made into a Superheavy needs to have the following three things to work: 2-3 structure points and the firepower to fit Apoc, the look of a true Space Marine Tank without the dakka making it too orky, and the ability to use existing transport craft to get in and out of warzones rapidly. So here's how to mesh it all together...
The Land Raider Exterminus style is attractive because it's easily recognizable as a Space Marine Tank, has the firepower and structure points to fit Apoc, but fails in that the damned thing is just too big to fit under a Thunderhawk Transporter to be deployed rapidly to and from a warzone. So it fails in that respect. But all is not lost.
Take the same principle of making the Land Raider bigger, but keep it sized to where it will fit under the Thunderhawk Transporter. The way to do this is to make the land raider 1.5 inches longer and 1 inch wider. Call it the Battle Raider and it would have 3x open side sponson holes the 1st of which holds a twin linked lascanon just like the MkIIb FW design. But instead of directly behind that lascannon having the rhino door, there is another side sponson that allows direct forward firing clearing the 1st side sponson. Behind that is the rhino side door. That comprises all 3 side sponson openings along the lengthened LR Track.
Now that is is wider, a demolisher canon is added to the front above where the assault doors are and next to it a twin linked assault cannon. There is room for one style turret on the top of the Battle Raider and that is the Predator style, due to the way the Thunderhawk transporter's belly is designed. That gives you a twin Linked Lascannon turret on top. So the stats for this vehicle could be as follows:
Battle Raider
Points?
BS4 AV F:14 S:14 R:14
Structure Points: 2-3
Transport capacity: 12-16 Marines?
Weapons:
Turret mounted Twin Linked Lascannon
4 Side Sponson Twin Linked Lascannon
Front mounted Demolisher Cannon
Front Turretted Twin Linked Assault Cannon/Hvy Bolter?
Options:
The front two Sponsons can be configured to any variant pattern Land Raider that Space Marine Chapters use. Also, the turret, if retained and not replaced by a Helios or Hyperios can be configured to any variant pattern Predator turret that Space Marine Chapters use. Vehicle upgrades as per normal.
Also kicking around the idea of having an option to replace the transport capacity for a Void Shield. Although I wonder if having a MotF or Techmarine with a buncha servitors riding inside repairing stuff would be better than a void shield...
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/BradCrabtree/BattleRaider.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/BradCrabtree/Battleraider2.jpg
Note that this top view, below, has the Turret offset located more or less behind the Front Turret Twin Linked Hvy Bolters which is contrary to the pic above which has the turret located behind the Demolisher Canon. I feel this balances the aesthetic look better. Also note that I have used MK V Lascannon side sponsons for the top down view instead of the MKIIb version. I did this for simplicity, although I am convinced that the MKIIb would look better/cleaner.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/BradCrabtree/BattleRaider3top.jpg
The dimensions of this Battle Raider are roughly 1" wider in the hull between the tracks and overall 1.5" longer than a stock LR. The overall width is unknown when including the sidesponsons because the MK IIb sponsons (these are the ones I plan on using) are narrower and slimmer than the MK V pictured above in the last photo.
I tried to imagine how a Chapter would use this tank and dedicated Titan and Bunker Busting scenarios come to mind firstly. But adding a super heavy canon in the front is not a weapon the space marines use on a tank, so I didnt want to include it. Still, the modability of the configuration of this Battle Raider are quite extensive allowing for just about any kind of mission parameter suitability.
It is my hope that I get help from forum members deciding exactly its final configuration and the points cost. I have already purchased the Land Raider, the doors, the Liberator Ver. 1.0 tracks (which will help it fit in with my planned pre-heresy fluff making it more of a Land Raider Mk 1.5 super heavy with the tracks going all the way around the tank) and am waiting for them to arrive before I begin building this Battle Raider. I hope you find this proposal to your liking.