Cactus goes to 'Ard Boys

[thecactusman17]

And 'ere we go!
HQ:
Baron Sathonyx
Duke Sliscus

Elites:
Incubi, Klaivex, Onslaught
Raider, Nightshields, Flickerfield, Torment Grenade Launchers

Troops:
Hellions (x20) w/ Helliarch, Agonizer
Wyches, Hekatrix, Agonizer, Haywire Grenades, 2x Shardnets
Raider, Nightshields, Flickerfield
Wyches, Hekatrix, Agonizer, Haywire Grenades, 2x Shardnets
Raider, Nightshields, Flickerfield

Warriors (x9) w/ Blaster
Raider, Nightshields, Flickerfield
Warriors (x5) w/ Blaster
Venom, Dual Splinter Cannons, Nightshield
Warriors (x5) w/ Blaster
Venom, Dual Splinter Cannons, Nightshield

Heavy Support
Voidraven, 4x Monoscythe Missiles, Nightshields, Flickerfield
Voidraven, 4x Monoscythe Missiles, Nightshields, Flickerfield
Voidraven, 4x Monoscythe Missiles, Nightshields, Flickerfield

Thoughts and criticism are always encouraged and appreciated.

2496 pts total.

[Lennysfury]

Ok, not a bad start. I just got done with an Ard Boyz primer this sat and played a DE list. Here is what i think, take it as you will.

1. Not enough darklances...if my counting is right, you have 10, granted 6 of those are str 9 from the ravens, and then you have 3 blasters. the list i ran yesterday had 13 dark lances, and 11 blasters, and i still thought i could use some more. if you run up against another DE player or an ork battlewagon army or any tank army for that matter and you will be toast. dark lances are great but you need alot of them to get the job done. i would drop at least 1 void raven and maybe 2 and pick up ravagers, they are cheaper and mathhammer wise will inflict more damage on a tank.

2. Your tanks have to many upgrades. i did this when i first started playing DE, and soon found out it doesnt help much, your raiders with 5 man squads should drop the nightfield. you are going to be getting within 18 inches to shoot the blaster then next turn fly back away, only thing nightfields really help against is GKs due to their uber mid range shooting. keep night fields on on the void ravens as they are pure long range.

3. The void ravens....i have played them a little and they are a multi purpose tank, it has both anti tank and anti infantry with the missiles you gave it. the DE really benefit from units that do 1 thing. so pick either anti tank or anti infanty. if you want anti tank take ravagers, if you want anti infantry tank razorwings with disegrators.

4. The 9 man warrior squad. not sure why you took 9 if you were filling points? either take 5 or take 10 with a sybrite and for back field objective holding.

5. Alot of people will not agree with me on this so take this one with a grain of salt. I hate the baron, +1 to going first is nice, but if it doesnt help you then he is the most worthless character in the DE army... True he gives your unit stealth but lets be honest, your DE and bolters will still waste you even with your 3+ cover. I take Vect due to even if i dont steal the int. i still have a HQ that is a monster in combat and will wreck almost anything he gets close to, my last game i had him, an archon, 5 incubi and 9 wyches take out 10 paladins, draigo and a libby in combat, granted i rolled better than my opponent, but i didnt roll much better, vect was killing 2 per turn and i had a shard net on draigo so he only had 3 attacks.

With some of those changes that will free up enough points to get at least one 4 man squard of trueborn with blasters in a venom.

[thecactusman17]

Ok, not a bad start. I just got done with an Ard Boyz primer this sat and played a DE list. Here is what i think, take it as you will.

1. Not enough darklances...if my counting is right, you have 10, granted 6 of those are str 9 from the ravens, and then you have 3 blasters. the list i ran yesterday had 13 dark lances, and 11 blasters, and i still thought i could use some more. if you run up against another DE player or an ork battlewagon army or any tank army for that matter and you will be toast. dark lances are great but you need alot of them to get the job done. i would drop at least 1 void raven and maybe 2 and pick up ravagers, they are cheaper and mathhammer wise will inflict more damage on a tank.
I don't play Ravagers, don't have the models, don't want the models, and think they underperform for their cost after running proxies a few times. Mathhammer is for armies that fight fair. People who fight fair lose 50% of their matches. Start playing the other parts of the game and you won't have to rely so much on dice rolling odds. The unreliable Darklances are replaced in part with Haywire grenades, which often cause my heavily mechanized opponents big headaches when they connect. Leaving an assaulting Furioso dread as a smoking crater before it even gets to swing is a pretty handy warning to most opponents.

2. Your tanks have to many upgrades. i did this when i first started playing DE, and soon found out it doesnt help much, your raiders with 5 man squads should drop the nightfield. you are going to be getting within 18 inches to shoot the blaster then next turn fly back away, only thing nightfields really help against is GKs due to their uber mid range shooting. keep night fields on on the void ravens as they are pure long range.
You haven't really tried these for more than a match or two have you? Nightshields are the best upgrade in the codex. the best way to keep yourself alive is to not let yourself get shot at all.

3. The void ravens....i have played them a little and they are a multi purpose tank, it has both anti tank and anti infantry with the missiles you gave it. the DE really benefit from units that do 1 thing. so pick either anti tank or anti infanty. if you want anti tank take ravagers, if you want anti infantry tank razorwings with disegrators.
Around the 3-4 FLGSs I play at, my voidravens are well respected for a number of reasons, the foremost being that they are a threat against everything. S9 against tanks, destroys hordes,I play against several types of armies within several different local metagames. These things keep me alive through all of them, which Ravagers don't.

4. The 9 man warrior squad. not sure why you took 9 if you were filling points? either take 5 or take 10 with a sybrite and for back field objective holding.
Duke has to be deployed with Warriors or trueborn. I don't run trueborn.

5. Alot of people will not agree with me on this so take this one with a grain of salt. I hate the baron, +1 to going first is nice, but if it doesnt help you then he is the most worthless character in the DE army... True he gives your unit stealth but lets be honest, your DE and bolters will still waste you even with your 3+ cover. I take Vect due to even if i dont steal the int. i still have a HQ that is a monster in combat and will wreck almost anything he gets close to, my last game i had him, an archon, 5 incubi and 9 wyches take out 10 paladins, draigo and a libby in combat, granted i rolled better than my opponent, but i didnt roll much better, vect was killing 2 per turn and i had a shard net on draigo so he only had 3 attacks.
I am probably dropping the Duke. The Baron is the best HQ in the codex for price and second best if price is no object. You need to look past their stats in close combat and examine the actual ways in which they contibute to the army. The Baron does way more for the army as a whole and his particular unit than any other HQ in the book, including the Duke and Vect.

With some of those changes that will free up enough points to get at least one 4 man squard of trueborn with blasters in a venom.
Nope. Units that expensive need to perform, and I've never seen that unit successfully kill anything.


I've never had a trueborn unit make its points back. I've stopped running them altogether.

The Baron is a pre-game dice roll winning mandatory HQ selection, S6 weapon, 2++ invul save, stealth-giving, grenade-giving, hit-and-run MONSTER. I have yet to play a game where he has failed to earn his points, even when I lost horribly.

If you ever give up a vehicle upgrade, drop Flickerfields before nightshields. Smart deployment and maneuver is going to limit or outright eliminate return fire if done correctly. A 5++ is never going to win you the game though it can annoy your opponent. I run both because they are a useful combo and force my opponent to take actions he would not otherwise take, which leads to costly mistakes in my favor.

I ran against an 1850 Orks and a very nonstandard Blood Angels 'Ard Boyz list today with some promising results using this list and a downgraded variant.