Grey Knights 2000 points - Need a little help rounding off the list

[bknesal]

Okay, so I've got the core of my list pretty solid. I'm not seeing changing up what I have more than minor changes unless their are some very good points as to why some part of it is just plain bad. I am really just having trouble with the last 495 points. So here's the list so far (I now realize that it may seem as though I'm trying to turn a 1500 point list into a 2000 point list, but I'm not; The fact that what I currently have in this list adds up to 1505 points is pure coincidence):

HQ
GM - 220
Rad, psychotroke, and blind grenades, MC sword, digital weapons

Elites
7 Paladins - 485
MC psycannon & halberd
MC psycannon & hammer
Brotherhood banner & SB
Warding Stave & SB
MC halberd & SB
Halberd & SB
Hammer & SB

Troops
10 GKSS - 270
2 Psycannons, 1 hammer (on justicar), rhino

10 GKSS - 270
2 Psycannons, 1 hammer (on justicar), rhino

Heavy Support
LRC - 260
Psybolt ammo

The GM and Paladins would get in the LRC. The only major change I can think would make sense would be to remove 1 or both of the GKSS's, add Coteaz, and add a bunch of henchman, because I feel like that would synergize relatively well with the high points cost of the Paladins. Thoughts on this switch would be appreciated.

So I've got a few options from this point. I could add 2 ven psyflemen with 105 points left over to spend on something else. I could add 1 ven psyfleman (although I don't see this as being a good idea) and add Coteaz with 200 points worth of henchmen. I could add 1 stormraven as a high strength support gunship that can pick up models if needed (maybe even throw on hurricane bolters and psy-ammo for more fire power) then add Coteaz and 190 points worth of henchmen (or just 190 points worth of something else). I think my best bet would be to add the 2 ven dreads. Thoughts and opinions are all welcome.

[chicop76]

1. I would master craft the troops hammers, since ws 4 isn't really great
2. You need dreadnoughts with 2 autocannons, or 1 autocannon or assault cannon with ammo, I would use the heavy options so you would have more points for troops.
3. More troops via Terminators with the Necron upgrade or Coteaz with henchmen
4. You can take a libby, put it in a transport move 12", telepor the crusader 6" away and with the hull being 5" long you would have covered 23" in on turn.

[DarkLink]

Two Dreads are 270pts. That leaves you with 225pts, which is just enough for a cheap inquisitor and a pair of henchmen units with melta. You should be able to fit in a Malleus Inquisitor with a psycannon, 3 Multimelta Servitors in a Chimera, and 3 Acolytes with meltaguns in a Rhino if you drop a few points elsewhere. That gives you some long range firepower, some melta, and some more vehicles so the GKSS aren't blown away turn 1.

[bknesal]

@chicop76:
1. Doesn't sound like a bad idea. I'll do so if I've got the points when I fill in the larger points gap.
2. I will very likely be adding a couple psyflemen.
3. I'm currently leaning towards henchmen, but what do you mean by "Necron upgrade"? Thawn? I honestly forgot he was an option, and I'm definitely going to keep it that way. There's pretty much nothing about Thawn that I see makes him worth 75 points.
4. That's kind of cheesy and unreliable. I'd rather just roll up like normal.

@ DarkLink:
That sounds great, but without Coteaz, I can only add 1 warband. I do like the sound of it though.

What about adding the Malleus =I= with psycannon, 3 MM servitors, and a jokaero in a chimera? That would leave 25 points for upgrades on other squads. Of course, if it's not viable to take only 1 warband, then I'll have to do something else.

How do you feel about the list as a whole?

[plawolf]

If you do go for the servitors, remember you need the =I= attached or they are at risk of mind lock.

Bit of a silly rule, but it is there and needs to be followed.

At least the chimera has 5 fire points, so everyone still gets to shoot out of it.

[bknesal]

I had this in mind. It is no coincidence that the warband consists of 4 henchmen. Add the =I= in the chimera with the warband, and they all get to shoot out while no concerns with mind lock. I'm just not convinced that it's enough, you know? There's no redundancy with it save for, in part, the GKSS's.

[chicop76]

I meant Thawn. He cost 75 points, because nothing can kill him and he's scoring. If he dies on an objective, he can come back and contest or win the game.

I don't use him, because he's 75 points. I've seen him used and it cost me two wins so far, because he tied up the game. He's better then St. Celestine, due to him coming back even being removed as a casualty. It's a choir to kep killing him when he stands back up. If he comes back atleast twice the model easily earned back his points, also if you had went second and he comes back it can help you win the game.

It's worth allocating an ap 2 weapon towards Thawn since you're bound to roll a 4, although it doesn't help in kill points.

You think that is cheesy. Take Mordrack with Librian and deepstrike them in turn 1 with 8 Paladins and on the next turn summon in 10 terminators.

[bknesal]

I meant that I thought that moving the librarian in his own vehicle then summoning 6" in front of him was cheesy because of the risk associated with it (scatter). Deep striking him with in Mordrak's unit then using summoning is just awesome because it's more reliable.

However, Thawn is far from worth 75 points.

[Denied]

I meant that I thought that moving the librarian in his own vehicle then summoning 6" in front of him was cheesy because of the risk associated with it (scatter). Deep striking him with in Mordrak's unit then using summoning is just awesome because it's more reliable.

However, Thawn is far from worth 75 points.

You're better off ignoring anything Chicop76 says he seems to think overpriced useless units are great to use. I am starting to believe he is just trolling us with his poor ideas and insane rambling about how they are teh greatzor!

[chicop76]

You're better off ignoring anything Chicop76 says he seems to think overpriced useless units are great to use. I am starting to believe he is just trolling us with his poor ideas and insane rambling about how they are teh greatzor!

Hmmm. I suggest you read. I even said I don't even use the model for the same reasons he doesn't use it. It's still a suggestion and is an ok choice. A poor ideal is to ignore units that you can use without seeing them played or even use them. I've seen him used, but I don't use terminators so to use him I have to field them.

He uses Terminators and the unit is an option. I've seen the model win games and it cost me two wins to date. I wiped the terminator squad with breath of chaos, yet Thawn kept coming back and that objective I should had have was contested. If the Grey Knight player went first I might had won both games, because Thawn would had been dead at the end of the game. I think Thawn is situational and by going second you only have a 50% chance of him standing up.

Ironic the Troll is calling me a troll. Atleast put forth advice the op asked for instead of writing garbage to boost up your post count.

[plawolf]

I never used to even consider Thawn, as he costs 75pts on top of the 40pts you already payed for the normal justicar. 115pts is far too expensive for a overcharged WWB on a single model.

However, with the FAQ making psy powers stacking, I have started taking another look at him, as by most consensus, he can cast hammerhand in addition to the rest of the termies, thus giving you S6 terminators, which is quite a nice boost, especially since the GK HQ slots are so precious you might not otherwise have the option to boost your termies like this.

[chicop76]

I never used to even consider Thawn, as he costs 75pts on top of the 40pts you already payed for the normal justicar. 115pts is far too expensive for a overcharged WWB on a single model.

However, with the FAQ making psy powers stacking, I have started taking another look at him, as by most consensus, he can cast hammerhand in addition to the rest of the termies, thus giving you S6 terminators, which is quite a nice boost, especially since the GK HQ slots are so precious you might not otherwise have the option to boost your termies like this.

I forgot he could use 2 powers. I didn't know hammerhand could stack, I will have to like at the faq the updated again last week again.

[bknesal]

Well Thawn throwing down an extra hammerhand would just depend on how your local meta treats it, since Thawn is an upgrade character, not an IC. Bottom line is that you could have 5 terminators and upgrade 1 to Thawn for 75 points, but you could just spend those 75 points on making those 5 terminators into 5 paladins instead (5 paladins cost 275 whereas 5 termies cost 200). 5 paladins are far more useful than 5 terminators even with Thawn as the justicar. Why worry about 1 character having a 50% chance to resurrect when you could just make the unit almost impossible to wipe out?

@Denied Don't worry, I've read through enough and have enough personal experience to be able to identify what advice I should and should not consider. Although it would help if people's ages were displayed.

On a side note, I appreciate the advice people are giving, but how does everyone feel about the list as a whole? Is the lack of feedback on that just because there aren't really any issues?

[Denied]

On a side note, I appreciate the advice people are giving, but how does everyone feel about the list as a whole? Is the lack of feedback on that just because there aren't really any issues?


It's a solid enough list on its own, I have not had luck using LRC's I find them to be a major point dump, but that's personal experience I know people who do just fine with them. I would personally drop the LRC for a pair of Psyfile Dreads, I think overall you need the Psyfile Dreads and should try to find the points from somewhere.

Then again if your plan is to charge any tanks with the Paladins you should be able to still pop them with the number of Hammers your bringing.

Also I am not sure if Digital weapons and Warding Staves are worth the points but if you have the extra points you need to dump somewhere sure enough place for it. I would spend those points either on putting a multi-melta on the LRC if you are still set on using it. That way you can pop the tanks and then charge the juicy bits with your paladins, or give a unit psybolt ammo.

[chicop76]

It's a solid enough list on its own, I have not had luck using LRC's I find them to be a major point dump, but that's personal experience I know people who do just fine with them. I would personally drop the LRC for a pair of Psyfile Dreads, I think overall you need the Psyfile Dreads and should try to find the points from somewhere.

Then again if your plan is to charge any tanks with the Paladins you should be able to still pop them with the number of Hammers your bringing.

Also I am not sure if Digital weapons and Warding Staves are worth the points but if you have the extra points you need to dump somewhere sure enough place for it. I would spend those points either on putting a multi-melta on the LRC if you are still set on using it. That way you can pop the tanks and then charge the juicy bits with your paladins, or give a unit psybolt ammo.

I agree with some points and disagree with others.

1. I agree with the comment about the LRC, but you have 500 points to spare, and you're building around 8 Terms where the LRC is the only transport to take for such a large squad. In this situation I think the LRC is justified. I tend to stay away from Terms anyway, but with wound allocation and a solid transport they should hopefully dominate.

2. Does he really need a digital weapon, not really, but it's a cheap upgrade and it helps your HQ do more damage in combat.

3. The Warding Staff I agree shouldn't be where it's at. Although it would help against str 8 close combat attacks. I'm a firm believer of putting my ward staff on my grenade carrier. Your HQ unit can be singled out and killed in combat, so to prolong the wonderful grenade chucking I would say put the Warding Staff on your Grandmaster. 1. With a +2 invulnerable it deters hits going towards the model, 2. You will have a Marine version of an Archon when you're in combat.

4. Going back to point 3, I forgot about Iron Halo, you have a +3 invulnerable in combat already. So I would say the +2 isn't really needed. It takes 6 str 8 wounds to instand kill you hq, while 3 with a 3+ invulnerable. The ward save is an expensive upgrade and your point could be used else where.

[bknesal]

I've definitely considered the points sink that the LRC is, but I just don't want the paladins to get shot up before they get into a more effective range.

If I end up needing to find a couple more points to fit something else in, I'll take off the digital weapons. It just seemed like a nice extra addition to his combat effectiveness. I'll remove it if I need to make room for something else though.

I don't like having to rely on a 5+ invulnerable save, and I certainly don't want to be allocating wounds to my GM. That's what the stave is there for. I know it's another points sink, but paladins are only T4, and all those power fists/claws need to be dealt with somehow.

I really feel like paying 35 points to change a 3++ to a 2++ isn't really worth it.

[DarkLink]

@ DarkLink:
That sounds great, but without Coteaz, I can only add 1 warband. I do like the sound of it though.


Hmmm, and that's why I take coteaz as my second HQ.




What about adding the Malleus =I= with psycannon, 3 MM servitors, and a jokaero in a chimera? That would leave 25 points for upgrades on other squads. Of course, if it's not viable to take only 1 warband, then I'll have to do something else.

This works just fine. The second melta unit was just to add a bit of reliability and another vehicle, but since you can't fit it in that's not an issue.



How do you feel about the list as a whole?

Pretty good. I haven't played with LRs with he new codex, and they might be a bit of a point sink, but it's a pretty solid list.

[bknesal]

Thanks a lot for the advice. With the points that everyone has made in mind, I rounded off the list. I believe I am pretty satisfied with it.

HQ
GM - 220
Rad, psychotroke, and blind grenades, MC sword

Ordo Malleus Inquisitor - 89
Terminator armor, daemon hammer, psycannon, 3 servo skulls

Elites
7 Paladins - 485
MC psycannon & halberd
MC psycannon & hammer
Brotherhood banner & SB
Warding Stave & SB
MC halberd & SB
Halberd & SB
Hammer & SB

Henchmen Warband - 120
3 multi-melta servitors, 1 jokaero weaponsmith, chimera

Troops
10 GKSS - 270
2 Psycannons, 1 MC hammer (on justicar), rhino

10 GKSS - 270
2 Psycannons, 1 MC hammer (on justicar), rhino

Heavy Support
LRC - 270
Multi-Melta, psybolt ammo

2xPsyfleman - 135 each

Total: 1999

I guess I can slap a searchlight on one of the rhinos.

Again, thanks for the help.

Overview of changes/additions:
Removed digital weapons from the GM to allow more points for taking servo skulls, added the Ordo Malleus Inquisitor, added the henchmen warband, MC'd the hammers on the strike squads, added a multi-melta to the LRC, added the psyflemen.