Rolling like a Tau

[Bedroom General]

G'day bolsketeers
Played a game against DOA Blood Angels recently that reinforced what I have long suspected. Tau suffer more than any army from failed rolls in the shooting phase. We have a saying around here "rolling like a Tau" for when we fail rolls in any game!
When you play as Tau do you find this to be true?

[DrLove42]

For an army that depends on shooting (cos they have nothing cpabale of assaulting) BS3 is a massive pain in the ***

Even twinlinked railguns miss more than they hit for me....

[slxiii]

Everything that can be twinliked, should be. Markerlights to up BS to at least 4.
Nobody should be rolling on bs3 and letting it be, it's just not good enough.

[Xanadu]

...clearly you haven't played Mechdar before. We rely very heavily on what you roll and we pray that you don't block fortune. Falcons as BS3 hurts more and Fire Prisms always seem to scatter back onto my own stuff...

Seriously though, I started DE as a way to mitigate my poor dice rolling but it still doesn't help - I am always let down by my dice rolling.

[Wildeybeast]

I don't play with my Tau anymore because of this, i got torn apart by everyone I played. I occasionally get a longing to play with them, get them out again and then get incredibly annoyed as they get torn apart again.

BS3 is fine if you have massed firepower like the guard, but Tau don't. GW thought that S5 basic weapons would compensate for it, but S5 is irrelevant when you can't hit the broadside of a barn. And of course they have really strong weapons which can't penetrate a wet paper towel, so power armour armies means you are forced to take Sniper teams to have any chance. But no one is so desperate that they take the hideous Vespid.

And while I'm on it, changing rapid fire from half weapon range to 12" crippled us, not to mention making no sense in the background. If you have a gun that fires further than everyone else, surely it would fire further than everyone else whilst rapid firing? But no, we are stuck with the same crappy range as everyone else, meaning one less turn before something hacks the heads of my beloved fire warriors.

And if the latest Chaos legions codex and 6th rumours to be believed, we won't be seeing the desperately needed new codex for at least another year. Hell, at this point I'd take a crappy WD make-do list as long as it made my army at least vaguely functional again.

*rant over*

[Anggul]

Pathfinders. They all have markerlights. Use them.

Seriously, the codex makes it quite clear that they're a key part of Tau combat, and it's right. The problem is, it's a 4th ed codex so it didn't have dawn of war to consider, so if you roll that you won't be lighting things up until turn 3 at best, which is probably too late. Just something we have to deal with.

[slxiii]

Pathfinders. They all have markerlights. Use them.

Seriously, the codex makes it quite clear that they're a key part of Tau combat, and it's right. The problem is, it's a 4th ed codex so it didn't have dawn of war to consider, so if you roll that you won't be lighting things up until turn 3 at best, which is probably too late. Just something we have to deal with.

Blacksun Fliters. Spend less than 20 points across the army for the ability to dominate 1/3 of games.

[DrLove42]

Pathfinders are great. But a markerlight is still a heavy weapon AND it still needs to hit. And pathfinders require a sodding Devilfish to be bought with them, making them hella pointless

Eldar are another example. OK guardians should be WS3, they all are poets and artisans in armour afterall. But Falcons should be BS4. With all the wonderful tech they have, surely they have a aim assist?
I don't take Fire Prisms because of the scatter. A Wraithlord with a Lance is the best chance, or a Serpent with a twinlinked lance are the best chances for frying armour...

Blacksun filters help yes. But not if you can't hit, can't shoot or are out of range. Not to mention if you stuff can't shoot first turn because the Markerlights are Heavy. Also DoW bring a new complication....the enemy can deploy up the halfway line. Meaning if they have a fast assault troops choice, theres agood chance they're on you turn 1. If they get first, ro seize then you have a serious problem

[Anggul]

Blacksun Fliters. Spend less than 20 points across the army for the ability to dominate 1/3 of games.

Actually I was referring to the fact that they won't be able to come in until turn 2 at best as you can't deploy fast attack choices in dawn of war, then they have to wait until the next turn to shoot.


Pathfinders are great. But a markerlight is still a heavy weapon AND it still needs to hit. And pathfinders require a sodding Devilfish to be bought with them, making them hella pointless

I just give the devilfish to one of my fire warrior squads, who I'd by buying one anyway, and it comes with the upgrade which helps if I happen to be deep striking any crisis suits. As they're BS3, you take double the number of counters you want to get. I take a squad of 8, so I should get 4 hits, which means two fire warrior squads can fire as BS5. That hurts pretty much anyone, immensely so in rapid-fire range. It would be nice to have the 15" rapid range, but ah well.

Oh, and fire prisms usually work. They're BS4 and there's a 1/3 chance they won't scatter anyway, and then if you combine fire they become twin-linked. I find them very reliable. They're also much cheaper than any other Eldar heavy weapons, which we all know are extremely over-priced and are the main problem with the codex. 45pts for a twin-linked BS3 bright lance? Silliness.

Massive agreement on Falcons needing BS4. The wave serpent turret just has a targeter on it, so fair enough that being BS3, but a Falcon has a guy dedicated to firing it just like the fire prism does, so it should definitely be BS4.

[Bedroom General]

I've often thought that a 12'' bubble of BS4 around an Ethereal might make me take one despite the drawbacks. I've used the bodyguard guys and BS4 ain't bad. I'd just lose them and make it a bubble that effects all TAU within it, vehicles included. This would be due to his inspiring presence. A mini game of "sack the quarterback" would probably ensue, but I wouldn't feel too bad about our points values any more. It would make targeting arrays ridiculous, but its oddly not such an OP idea. This is the age of the dreadknight, storm raven, DE et al. Remember we have NO close combat (yes Kroot I'm looking at you, my frisbees are better at combat!) worth a damn. We HAVE to hit in the shooting phase.
I know, I know, I'm over reacting, but I can dream can't I?

[DrLove42]

, my frisbees are better at combat!)

I had a unit of 2 broadsides and 4 shield drones get assaulted by a full unit of Vanguard veterans. Over the next 4 assault phases I managed to kill all of them, and lose only one drone

They run under the moniker of "The Frisbees of Death" now

[magickbk]

I've found that the biggest change that hurts the Tau now is quantity of mech. Nobody gets out of their transports, and vehicles are much more difficult to kill than they used to be. I used to take out transports by piling in S5-7 fire depending on AV, and eventually you roll plenty of 6s and destroy on the glance (3rd Edition). That no longer works, you need to pump in at least 3 times as much fire as before to get the same result. That, and scoring units hurt the Tau, because now you need to hide them in expensive transports that they can't shoot out of.

I don't seem to roll any better or worse than I used to, I just can't get my enemy on foot as easily as I used to, and that's where Tau excel, range and outmaneuver.

[w7west]

Hmm.. the guy who plays tau around here is known for rolling straight 6's all day long, just kind of the opposite of the op here.

That being said I am pretty sure that suits and the hq suit + bodyguard squads hit with almost everything, and each one gets a nice handful of plasma/pod shots. Tau can have a ****load of high quality (bs4+) high str (6-7) shots from suits without even needing to markerlight.

[magickbk]

Tau can have a ****load of high quality (bs4+) high str (6-7) shots from suits without even needing to markerlight.

Crisis Suits are BS3. So are Crisis Bodyguards. You can take Targeting Arrays on everybody, but then you reduce the ability to fire additional weapons or take other options for protection. I'm sure someone somewhere on these forums has done the math, but eventually you realize that piling upgrades onto the suits doesn't make them significantly better when compared to the reduced damage of taking fewer weapons, you just don't have to be quite as careful with them.

[Wildeybeast]

Pathfinders. They all have markerlights. Use them.

Seriously, the codex makes it quite clear that they're a key part of Tau combat, and it's right..

Problem is, every opponent worth their salt also knows this, which means my Pathfinders are invariably the first to die. Which they do pretty quickly when they have battle cannon templates dropped on them or a drop pod of marines unloading in front of their face. I've seen people use sacrifical units whose sole purpose is to take out Pathfinders asap. Doesn't matter if they get overhwhelmed by the rest of my army, once the pathfinders are dead, the damage is done.

[SonicPara]

Tau are probably the 2nd worst codex right now with Necrons being the only book hurting more. Even then, Tau can still win games but only if their user understands and dominates the movement phase. Tau offer a lot of shooting but not the best (that title probably goes to Venom-spam Dark Eldar) so they have to make use of their mobility and get clever with their tactics to pull out a win. It isn't easy but it certainly is possible.

[Lemt]

Actually I was referring to the fact that they won't be able to come in until turn 2 at best as you can't deploy fast attack choices in dawn of war, then they have to wait until the next turn to shoot.

Wait, what? Can't you assign your whole army to come out on turn 1 in DoW?

I may be mistaken, after all I play all-DS 'nids.

[LordGrise]

I play Tau exclusively, because I can't afford to buy another army. I got into them because I love the way they look, and because the fluff for them shows them to be one of the few 'good guy' armies. Of course, you know what they say about good guys...

In no particular order, the things I carp about when having build/paint sessions (I usually get started when I crack open the third beer)

Drones:
This army practices shooting EXCLUSIVELY, has computer assist targeting, but doesn't have it in general deployment, not even on my BS 2 drones, who are supposed to be sophisticated AIs... but apparently can only operate the equipment they were designed and built to operate at the same level of competence as an Ork.

The Tau have no snipers, only sniper drones. Yeah, and while my regular gun drones with the BS of an Ork can operate independently in squads of five, my sniper drones can only group up to three, and MUST have a living controller - who doesn't shoot at anything. And if he gets killed, the drones shut down. (Can we say blast markers?)

When, (not if) WHEN drones are forced into melee... yeah, they apparently just kind of bump into whatever is bashing on them. No melee equipment at all, not even sharp edges or pointy bits to help them, like, you know, bayonets? I won't even bring up the idea of a drone equipped with a purpose-built melee weapon...

Oh, and when a gun drone drops, it just kind of falls over and (presumably) starts meeping for repairs... instead of, say, self-destructing and exploding? I'm not greedy, just the small blast template? Too much to ask? I have nothing that uses it right now...


My Fire Warriors.
Yeah, the guys who spend their entire lives learning to shoot, are only BS 3... or, in other words, miss more than they hit. Oh, and in an army whose fluff belabors the necessity of move and shoot... their equipment won't let them. If they move, then they have to let their enemies close to the point that melee combat becomes unavoidable before they can shoot. If they don't move, melee combat is unavoidable. Hmm, choices, choices... you know, those afore-mentioned bayonets would be nice? Or maybe give them all pistols? Anything?

Markerlights. Yea-ahh...
Can't move and use them. Your closest buddies, the ones who are watching you use the never-to-be-sufficiently-EDITED TO AVOID REMOVAL OF POST thing, yeah, they can't benefit from it. Oh, and they are apparently as valuable as having another buddy to help out with the dying!

Overpriced units, sabotaged equipment, special rules that make no sense... but I love them anyway. I just play Farsight's forces exclusively, and pretty much stay with Crisis suits and Hammerheads... pie plates do thin out the rush a bit. Anything else is generally just a points sink and a waste who will be dead by the end of turn three.

[OdinStormfist]

My Fire Warriors.
Yeah, the guys who spend their entire lives learning to shoot, are only BS 3... or, in other words, miss more than they hit.

4+ on a 6 sided die is 50% last time I checked.....:)

[Mystery.Shadow]

4+ is supposed to be 50%, but we all know DiceHammer trumps MathHammer.

So, when will Codex Dark Tau come out? You know, the part of the Army where Commander Farsight trains all his men in Close Combat to aid their paltry shooting skill.

Dawn Blades for everyone!!

[LordGrise]

i would do a happy dance in my local game store if I found even a WD treatment of Farsight's forces. I want formalized rules for Gue'vasa (human helpers, the survivors of the Damocles debacle) so bad it's not funny, even though it would probably force a total rethink of what I've got and where I want to go.

As if this needed saying, I am almost totally fluff-driven in my motivations concerning my army; the story is what has me engaged. Currently I'm slowly buying IG forces and working out how to convert them to serve the Greater Good (much more alliterative that constantly repeating 'Tau Empire', there is only one Empire in my personal view of the 40K universe, and it desperately needs our help) and I spend the odd moment or two worrying that when 6th comes out I'm gonna find out the Tau have been made into just another ugly, rapacious, kill-everything-not-us mob of xenos who want to perform genocide upon anyone not susceptible the the Ethereals mind-control powers. but it's my army, and my game; GW just sells me the raw materials. ::grin::

In answer to the comment about 4+ equalling 50% hit rate... I can only report that my personal Fire Warriors typically hit about fifty percent of the time - and then lose a third of those hits or more to armor and/or cover saves. And then the survivors get into melee and massacre my guys every single time. I understand that it would be ridiculously unbalanced for my guys to be able to annihilate attacking units before they ever got to me, but seriously: The Tau are damned near broken, in my humble view. Crisis suits and Railheads are the only units worth taking; Crisis suits are able to hold the range open, and Railheads can do both big punch and big blast. Everything else is either too expensive for what you get, or unable to defend itself, or both. At any and all costs my guys MUST stay out of melee, or they die.

But the story of the Tau is by far the most appealing to me, and the most available: it isn't fore-ordained, and barring major paradigm shifts, everyone else's stories are. Farsight's is the most heroic, and the most tragic, and closest to the old movies and animes I love. Besides, I'm invested in them.

Hope I didn't wander too far afield! Why do y'all play Tau?

[Bedroom General]

No love for my Ethereal idea?

I got into Tau because a mate played them against me in 4th when they first came out. His first army, and they rocked. I got me some of that action in time for it to be nerfed by 5th ed and its Mechgasm. I love the models, though I remove all the aerials from troops and suits. I really like painting them. I have more to do, but I tend to try to finish stuff in my other, more competitive armies (though I generally play CSM!)
I find that a sense of humour is vital in the game generally, and with the Tau in particular. My Ethereal is named "Aun Target" after all.
Love the IDEA of some of the units (Pathfinders, Vespid, etc) much better than their actual table top use. Also over costed in todays game.
Still love 'em and they have their moments, until Mephiston hits them in H2H on their home objective!
Sigh.

[LordGrise]

Yeah, the sense of humor is required. One of my fave moments was playing a bud of mine, my Tau vs his Chaos Marines. Turn Three, his Demon prince comes out.

The DP recieves the full faith and credence of approximately NINETEEN HUNDRED points of Tau, and saves everything - except one of my Fire Warriors shooting at extreme range (only one in range) ... who I had joked was shooting blindly over the wall before I rolled. Dink!

After that got my butt handed to me in the usual manner. But when I got home that particular FW got his bloodstripe (thin crimson pinstripe up the side of his thigh) Means nothing... but made me feel better. I use him as the unit commander now.

[Lord Azaghul]

I often have to tell my SM that they are really IG in disguise.
I can make a 5+ more then I can make a 3+ save – my termies life forever and my tact squads die faster then my guardsmen.

Same deal with a SM with a melta – if he’s the only one in the squad, he’ll wiff or roll snakes on his pen roll. If he thinks that there are 3 other meltas in the squad he’ll do just fine.


BTW – one of our major tau players is a freaking surgion – doesn’t matter if he faces meq or mech armies – he can get the job done – except vs my mixed IG (and only mine) LOL