Dark Heresy Noob

[Lord_Reclaw]

Hi Everyone

I'v just sighned up to this forum becouse I am in need of serious help. I have been collecting and playing warhammer 40k for 2.5 years and i consider myself an expert.( note that you may not think thats not long but me and my friends are obsesed and we know the rulebook back to front and can answer every little rule quiry better than anyone even people who have played for longer.)

Getting back to the topic i have bought the rule book for Dark heresy and i have a loose grasp on the rules. I originaly was going to be GM(Game Master) for our group but as we put our characters together which took 1 and a half hours to do I realised there where a lot of things not covered in the rules for actualy telling the story on the GM's part. My quiry for all those long time playing Dark Heresy players is what do i do if the PC's want to deviate slightly from the mission. Example: the players are following a servitor through the busy market place one of them wants to stop and buy some of the goods for sale or inquire about whats in the market place can the Gm make up rules for what they find for sale and if they can buy it or not? Another example is the players are searching through crates can the GM dictate what they find? I would also apretiat any advise about previous GM experiences.

I would relly apretiate some help plz :) PLZ Excuse Spellign i'm half asleep

[Gotthammer]

Basic advice: Make it up as you go along.

The GM of any RPG is there to provide any and all information about what the PCs see, hear, touch, taste and smell.
If they want to stop at a shop, describe the shopfront, the available wares, the vid screen blasting an advert for the latest neuro-stim slider, the wiry, slightly greasy owner who can't keep still and seems to always be scratching himself (a sure sign of a blaze addict).
"Hey, can I help you guys wiv summin'?"
Noises are coming from the back room - illegal gambling? drug den? something benign or more sinister? Do the players reveal themselves to make a bust or leave it be to catch the bigger fish?

When I've GMed (not DH but I've played RPGs for almost 20 years, GMing for a large bulk of that) I try not to make a linear plot, or at least not make it seem linear. For example you want the players to find a particular building. They have a choice to go left or right. Whatever they chose leads them to the building. The other way is something less interesting like a warehouse or construction site.
The key here is to be ready with something up your sleeve in case the players go "screw that, I want to go to the pit-fights/races/pub/shopping/video arcade."

It is not good to rail-road your players into descisions. In this case it would be forcing them to go into the building without any other options. It is still necessary to guide the players, but if they all decide to follow some minor point you mention be prepared to follow it.

For example I was playing in a Chinese Mythology based campaign, and we met a street vendor who had information about our mission, and had also been beaten up by the local gangs and seemed to be hiding something. We made the erronious descision that the gangs must be involved with the mission and were pressuring the vendor to stay silent about their information.
What it actually was was that the GM was trying to show that the gangs controlled the town, so might be a good source of info.

So we went off primed with great burning justice and started a three person war on the reigning Tong in command of the gangs. So the GM altered the plot on the fly so that they were behind it all, and told us about it later.

You can absolutely decide what they find in crates and the like - however be open about it with the players. If you are going to be deciding things like that be sure that they know, as some players (particularly trasitioning wargamers) don't like a GM exercising that level of arbitary judgement over the game.
And honestly, there's often a good reason for it - many GMs play favourites (even subconsioulsy - play in agroup where the GM is dating a player...), or try to 'beat' the players by screwing them over. Others are the opposite and give the players everything they want, which can be even worse as the game stagnates as the players have no goals to reach for or challenges.


Another thing is the level of detail you go into - if it is a simple transaction ("I need more ammo/rations/a disguise") there's no real need to describe it, just how long it takes and how much it costs if successful. It also depends on your players as well. My group was much more into the role playing aspect of RPGs than the hack 'n' slash and combat part of it. We played diceless for about five or six years, and use minimal homebrew systems when we don't.
If your group is combat focussed, throw lots of disposable henchmen at them at every turn to sate their bloodlust - the best thing you can do is ask them what they want to get out of it. Also RPGs are not for everyone. I know some avid table top gamers who don't like them, and some gerat RPGers who won't play wargames, so be prepared for that too.

To comment on something you said about your expertness, answering rule queries from the BRB is not what is really needed here - being able to quote background on everything and anyone from memory is more what you should be aiming for. RPGs are games about the story and the characters, not the rules crunching. Even if it's all combat and head-exploding, it should (in my opinion) be about how cool it is to be doing it and the like, not an exercise in rules mastery.

If you can get your hands on them Dungeoneer (http://www.amazon.com/Dungeoneers-Advanced-Fighting-Adventure-Gamebooks/dp/0140329366/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1311097056&sr=1-4) and Blacksand (http://www.amazon.com/Blacksand-Advanced-Fighting-Adventure-Gamebooks/dp/0140343962/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1311097056&sr=1-3) are great primers on getting into RPGs. The Giant in the Playground forums (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30)are very laid back and friendly if you have more specific RPG queries, or even for a look for inspiration.

[Lord_Reclaw]

ThX for the Info i apretiate it but i have one more quiry. Does this mean the GMs judgment can overule the story line. For example i am playing the starter mission in the main rulebook of dark heresy and i am wondering what lvl of freedom i should allow the players. Alsol can i make changes such as a street vendor is selling weapons (even though there is nothing about that in the story line.) Becouse i have been reading rules for selling and the avlability of weapons in the game and i am wondering how as the storyline progresses do player buy stuff and gain a prophet? (or does the game rely on stuff like this for the players to progrees) And handing out XP should i just give them the XP they earn at the end of the mission. Or should hand out little gifts such as: a player is succesful in killing an agresive NPC and thus gain 20XP as reward or they pass a difficult strength test on opening a door together and thus gain + 1 fellowship? excuse spelling plz

[Lord_Reclaw]

Also how do i create a Tactical map the book makes reference to them but i hav't seen anyway to make them and there does't seem to be much online about making them.

[Gotthammer]

ThX for the Info i apretiate it but i have one more quiry. Does this mean the GMs judgment can overule the story line.

The GM's descision is the storyline - RPGs are more like Apocalypse games than 40k in that you should always follow the rule of cool over RAW and go with whatever will be most fun.
If you don't like a part in the pre-written adventure, change it, remove it or whatever you feel like.



For example i am playing the starter mission in the main rulebook of dark heresy and i am wondering what lvl of freedom i should allow the players. Alsol can i make changes such as a street vendor is selling weapons (even though there is nothing about that in the story line.) Becouse i have been reading rules for selling and the avlability of weapons in the game and i am wondering how as the storyline progresses do player buy stuff and gain a prophet? (or does the game rely on stuff like this for the players to progrees)

As you're just starting out be very careful in what gear and what money you give to the players. If you give them too many cool guns and whatnot too early they'll
1) skew the level system for prewritten modules.
2) be nigh-unkillable.
3) get bored as everything will be too easy for them.

One campaign I was in suffered greatly from this - the characters all basically got what they wanted, so the players grew bored. Everyone had the big guns, the magic armour, the castles and whatnot - there was nothing for them to do and no reason for them to go out adventuring anymore.

As a counter to that I've played a campaign where we had a pirate spaceship with a cargo hold full of angels in jars, multiple nuclear bombs and a lifejammer powered jacuzzi.
It was however, a very silly campaign - my character's equipment list was "crate o' guns, chainsaw, bathtub filled with diamonds". We also sold an entire planet into slavery at one point and re-enacted the bathroom scene form Scarface.
So it can work, but you've got to establish the level early on and be sure the players understand it. Otherwise it's like going to watch a movie you think is a serious spy thriller and it turns out to be a gross-out comedy. Potentially very disapointing.


Listen Up You Primative Screwheads (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=50383), though designed for Cyberpunk, is a very good GM's resource as it deals with everything from creating atmosphere, creating campaigns, making good stories and making it fun and involving.

It also has a great section on armed to the teeth characters - about stepping out onto the street toting an assault rifle and heavy body armour only to have SWAT come down on you instantly. While a game like DH can lend itself to "bolters and assault cannons for everyone!" remember the players are meant to be Inquisitors, or at least trainee ones. The should be aiming for incognito, or else they'll just tip of the bad guys or have the Arbites trying to kill them for being a gang of armed to the teeth psychos.
As a note on immersion, if there are stores selling high powered weapons - the bad guys are going to shop there too.


And handing out XP should i just give them the XP they earn at the end of the mission. Or should hand out little gifts such as: a player is succesful in killing an agresive NPC and thus gain 20XP as reward or they pass a difficult strength test on opening a door together and thus gain + 1 fellowship? excuse spelling plz

I'd just stick to the standard XP at first, but later on giving bonuses for some significant combat things (such as saving the rest of the party who are all paralysed with one arm and a toothbrush), or for good roleplaying - combat yeilds lots of XP as is, so any bonuses should be (in my opinion) for things done well that don't gain a bonus.
If you do give role-play based bonuses keep in mind each player's aptitude. If one player is a natural only give them XP for a standout performance, but a player who is not so good due to shyness or whatever could be given a bonus for something 'average' for th eother players.

It's a very situational and 'gut' thing to judge, and it's best left til you get a good feel for the XP values and levelling system. Players can also feel slighted if they don't get bonuses for things, or canny ones might go out of their way to non-risky things to earn more XP (try every door just in case to get that +1!).



Also how do i create a Tactical map the book makes reference to them but i hav't seen anyway to make them and there does't seem to be much online about making them.

Grid paper would be my guess - I don't actually have the DH book (it's one of those "I really shold get it sometime" things), but from the sounds of it I'd say it's used for combat. If that's the case most RPGs just have the GM draw a map of the surrounds for the combat and put some minis down.
This is where you realise that for some stupid reason GW make almost no suitable models for Dark Heresy.


As a final note on this (but ask away if you have any more questions), be prepared to honestly say "I did not expect you to do that, I'll need a minute to figure out what to do next" to the players. It's better than coming up with a rash reaction to try and salvage a situation by forcing the players to go down the 'right' path.
They may even defeat your designed-to-be-unbeatable-big-bad-boss-of-the-next-dozen-adventures in their second meeting with a single blow, leaving you without a campaign at all. I was rather pleased with myself but the GM was a bit put out.

[mansalad]

Obviously not the OP, but I am considering GMing for the first time here soon. Just wanted to pop in and thank you, Gotthammer. Your posts are extremely insightful and helpful. Really appreciate it, broseph.

[Lord_Reclaw]

I was playing dark heresy and i just relised that on my D10 it goes from 0 to 9 does 0=10? if that is true i have been playing dark heresy very wrong also it defeats the purpose of the D100 becouse you could role up to110.

[Gotthammer]

Yeah, with a D10 the 0 is a ten. It's so when you roll with a second D10 marked in tens you can get scores of 1-100 and still get the round tens:

00 + 1 = 1

20 + 0 = 20

20 + 1 = 21

90 + 9 = 99

00 + 0 = 100

[Lord_Reclaw]

So iv been playing dark heresy wrong so every time my acolytes rolled to hit with there guns and rolled a O it should have been a hit.