The First Heretic discussion...(spoilers)

[Mananarepublic]

I have read the bulk of the heresy series and few books has made me geek out on fluff as much as this book...so of course I want to see if anyone else has any thoughts on a few bits and pieces that I feel was "revealed" in this book..

Please note that I will have MASSIVE SPOILERS below...

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First simple stuff:
1) The role that the Gal Vorbak plays in showing the primordial truth was a fresh angle to me, the other books have to some degree re-used the same structure for the fall of each chapter and the fact that Lorgar comes of as both a coward and the imperfections shown in the idea behind the crusades were great.
2) The whole scene in the Emperors lab (especially how it tied in with past books) was great to me! Had goose bumps the whole time I was reading!
3)

Less simple stuff:
1) The way that the possessed witch on Cadia (sorry - forgotten the name and the book is not anywhere near me) describes the emperor as a psychic force that has betrayed the gods of the void makes me think back to the two old Chaos books. Where there was a fifth chaos god (less powerful). Is this god in fact the emperor? I know this won't be popular interpretation (and I am not sure how I came to the conclusion) but since he is a psychic force taken physical form after having betrayed the gods of the void (in this case un-specific, the four big ones are never named.)
2) Based on the names of the Colchic pilgrims - are the chaos gods men who has reaches ascension? I am saying this only because the fall of the Eldar very well could have happened when one of the pilgrims arrived...
3) If the above is true, was the emperor also a pilgrim that tricked the gods?

Sorry for this but this book was one of my favorites and hopefully some people with knowledge outside of the Heresy series can enlighten me...

BTW - anyone else want to see more about the Night Lords fall after this book? :-)

/M

[Drew da Destroya]

I really enjoyed this as well, man. Some very interesting things in there.

The Gal Vorbak were awesome... I really liked seeing them change into their "battle forms" as the daemon comes to the forefront. And the really tragic character of the Red King. He was awesome.

I think the 5th Chaos God you're thinking of was Malal, the god of Chaos against Chaos. He ended up being written out at some point. That being said, the whole Emperor-Starchild thing is pretty indicative of a nascent god (or possibly an active god, if the Imperial Miracles are being caused by the Emperor).

I had your same thought about the Colthic pilgrims... I figured that the pilgrims were actually the myth, and that over the centuries had assumed names similar to the Chaos Gods. Either that, or they were actually daemonic heralds.

[Mananarepublic]

I really enjoyed this as well, man. Some very interesting things in there.

The Gal Vorbak were awesome... I really liked seeing them change into their "battle forms" as the daemon comes to the forefront. And the really tragic character of the Red King. He was awesome.

I think the 5th Chaos God you're thinking of was Malal, the god of Chaos against Chaos. He ended up being written out at some point. That being said, the whole Emperor-Starchild thing is pretty indicative of a nascent god (or possibly an active god, if the Imperial Miracles are being caused by the Emperor).

I had your same thought about the Colthic pilgrims... I figured that the pilgrims were actually the myth, and that over the centuries had assumed names similar to the Chaos Gods. Either that, or they were actually daemonic heralds.

That's right - Malal was his name... (my red and green/yellow books are far from accessible.)

Don't get me started about the Red King - it is the first time they've taken the "sensible" marine in a book and turned them super chaos (see Garro for what they normally do.)

I really like your take on the pilgrims! But the reason for thinking they are in fact the demons were the way they were described by the witch/demon.

It is great to see someone else liked the book as much as I!

/M

[wildclan]

I have just finished the book and enjoyed it immensley. the scene where they are in the lab and sense the presence oh Horus is epic. I also liked the part where Magnus and Lorgar are discussing there brothers that cant be spoken about which left me wanting to know more