Latest Tyranid Codex :(

[Andrew283]

Just wanted to bring this evil creation back into the forefront of our 40K related hate-fest.

First thing, what happened? One minute me and my fellow Nid player are happily charging around with our Carnifex's, Grubblies and god only knows what other monstrocities and then the next we were sitting, with a new codex that made us all cry. Now we have to survive on scratch built models, asmost things with a model in the 'dex are next to useless.

Rage, Splutter, Damn thee GW!


:p

[murrburger]

Ultimately, the book is a let-down because it is written by the same author who gave us Imperial Guard. You were all probably expecting something more powerful, but instead got a mish-mash of necessary units stuck in the Elites slot, poorly written special rules and poor FAQ rulings.

I don't think it's really a problem with Tyranids, as much as it is a problem with the author. Take a look at guard. They were basically given psychic powers, and the undercosting of the Valk/Vendetta (Still doesn't make sense from a fluff standpoint) is an obvious ploy to sell new kits. (It's in the same slot as the Sentinel)

I'm not saying Imperial Guard are over-powered. I'm just saying they're poorly designed, as are Nids. I'll give him a bit of a break, because these were his first books, and was probably pressured to sell a lot of vehicle boxes.

Not as bad a Fantasy Matt Ward, though. Compare Codex: Daemons to the old Orc book (also Ward), and you'll see the terrible power-creep that took place and ruined that game.

[Dalleron]

Oh no!! You can't have your 6-8 4+ wound MC running amuck destroying the enemy!!

This current 'nid codex seems to be what a nid army should be. That is lots of little bugs working with the bigger bugs. One just needs to adjust his army and/or playstyle.

I will agree with the lack of models for stuff in the codex though. That is poor showing on GW's part.

[Andrew283]

Why the sensible banter? Poor show. :)

[Chuck777]

GW changed the Nid's playstyle between editions. Bugs went from being all about big bugs and swarms of little bugs to being an integrated, synergistic army that lives and dies on good tactics. Most people really dislike the points costing in the new codex, especially the Monstrous Creatures (who are all, arguably, over-costed (for an army that relies on them as their muscle)). Many also hate the loss of unit customization - Nids went from being the most customizable (and thus potentially adaptable) army in the game to being just like every other army. People also hate what they see as GW's blatant money grabbing - Everyone owned Carnifexes, so the 5th ed book made Carnifexed is too expensive points-wise. At the same time GW released several new kits and made their points cost more reasonable, at least compared to the alternatives (i.e. the Trygon, Hive Guard, etc.).

Personally, I think the Tyranids are the worst 5th edition codex, and I say that as a guy who has been a bug player for years and years. This fact is doubly true now that Grey Knights have become so popular (the sheer number of Force Weapons they can muster really puts the kibosh on lots of Monstrous Creatures, and units like the Purifiers really harm swarm tactics).

Honestly, the best Nid lists out there now-a-days are those that are well rounded and have a good player behind them.

[Megad00mer]

The Tyranid Codex is a perfect example of a release in which almost every aspect was handled incredibly poorly. It's what's considered by most to be the worst overall Codex release in GW history.

Jan 2010: Tyranid Codex is released and immediately the community notices the problems. Many units seem terribly overcosted. Iconic units become laughably bad. (i.e.:Lictors). Older builds and options are rendered useless or illegal so Tyranid players are forced to spend tons of money on new stuff just to have a viable army. Key units and options have no available models to this day (Tervigons, Mycetic Spores, Lashwhips and Boneswords etc.) Numerous rules are poorly written, make no sense, flat out don't work in the actual game and/or are so vague they become open to interpretation. An FAQ is desperately needed just to make this book usable. Right out of the gate, the Tyranid Codex is considered an grossly underpowered book.

6 months later.....

July 2010:The Tyranid Codex finally gets it's FAQ, strangely enough on the exact same day as the Blood Angels who barely needed one yet waited half the time, as if GW didn't think the Tyranid FAQ important enough to release on it's own. This FAQ did fix certain ambiguities but also answered questions no one asked and nerfed certain parts of an already struggling book for seemingly no valid reason. Most Tyranid players scream a collective "WTF??" across the internet.

Couple this with the two most recent army releases, Dark Eldar and Grey Knights, both of which have abilities that seem custom made to give Tyranids an incredibly hard time.

GW did everything it could to screw the pooch when it came to the Tyranids.

No other Codex release, not even 4th ed. Chaos Marines has caused as much unhappiness amongst it's players as this Tyranid Book. And while the CSMs (who admittedly had the flavor and theme of their army gutted) are still regulars at tourmaments and can make some varied and competative builds, fewer and fewer Tyranid armies are seen on tables each passing month, and many serious tournament players consider them effectively dead for serious competitive play. Dead, only a year and a half after release.

So why is this? Is it that "Tyranid players are just whiny", "Tyranid players can't adapt to a new play style", "Tyranid players just suck" or any other ignorant dismissive crap like that?

Or is it a much simpler explanation. One that Tyranid players have been screaming for a year and a half and that some people (mostly those who don't play Tyranids interestingly enough) continue to ignore.

Very simply, this is a terrible, terrible Codex.

[HsojVvad]

I am just wondering why the original poster is saying this now? This is old news unless his/her intention was to bring it up to the front again so GW will notice it.

@mega doomer you are sort of wrong. When you said no other codex brought this much anguish as the 4th ed Chaos codex, you are wrong. The Dark Angels codex brought out the most. Not from the DA players but from the Space Marine Players. They are the ones who complained and cried the most and hence why we have the Ultramrine Codex, Space Wolves and Grey Knights now.

I guess this is GW way of making the SM codex not as week compared to the Tyranids otherwise SM players will be complaining and crying agian.

[Ghoulio]

The Tyranid Codex is a perfect example of a release in which almost every aspect was handled incredibly poorly. It's what's considered by most to be the worst overall Codex release in GW history.

Jan 2010: Tyranid Codex is released and immediately the community notices the problems. Many units seem terribly overcosted. Iconic units become laughably bad. (i.e.:Lictors). Older builds and options are rendered useless or illegal so Tyranid players are forced to spend tons of money on new stuff just to have a viable army. Key units and options have no available models to this day (Tervigons, Mycetic Spores, Lashwhips and Boneswords etc.) Numerous rules are poorly written, make no sense, flat out don't work in the actual game and/or are so vague they become open to interpretation. An FAQ is desperately needed just to make this book usable. Right out of the gate, the Tyranid Codex is considered an grossly underpowered book.

6 months later.....

July 2010:The Tyranid Codex finally gets it's FAQ, strangely enough on the exact same day as the Blood Angels who barely needed one yet waited half the time, as if GW didn't think the Tyranid FAQ important enough to release on it's own. This FAQ did fix certain ambiguities but also answered questions no one asked and nerfed certain parts of an already struggling book for seemingly no valid reason. Most Tyranid players scream a collective "WTF??" across the internet.

Couple this with the two most recent army releases, Dark Eldar and Grey Knights, both of which have abilities that seem custom made to give Tyranids an incredibly hard time.

GW did everything it could to screw the pooch when it came to the Tyranids.

No other Codex release, not even 4th ed. Chaos Marines has caused as much unhappiness amongst it's players as this Tyranid Book. And while the CSMs (who admittedly had the flavor and theme of their army gutted) are still regulars at tourmaments and can make some varied and competative builds, fewer and fewer Tyranid armies are seen on tables each passing month, and many serious tournament players consider them effectively dead for serious competitive play. Dead, only a year and a half after release.

So why is this? Is it that "Tyranid players are just whiny", "Tyranid players can't adapt to a new play style", "Tyranid players just suck" or any other ignorant dismissive crap like that?

Or is it a much simpler explanation. One that Tyranid players have been screaming for a year and a half and that some people (mostly those who don't play Tyranids interestingly enough) continue to ignore.

Very simply, this is a terrible, terrible Codex.

Yeah, pretty much this 100%. Couldn't of said it better then myself. If DE weren't released in the fashion they were (ie the EXACT opposite as Tyranids) then I wouldn't be playing 40k in any way right now. As it stands I now have an army I love to play and paint with a very deep, well thought out/written codex that will keep me going for years. My 4500pts+ of Tyranids are sitting in their case in storage waiting till someone who can actually write a decent codex (read: not overpowered...just a well written one) puts the next version of this book out and recaptures the flavor and feel of my favorite army.

[Lockark]

Stopped playing nids and sold my army because of this book. I play CSM and Orks now.
=U

[Xas]

I have no problem with the book but a hughe problem with the fact that there are still 4 important kits missing (in order of relevance):

1) Mycetic Spore (whole new army concept for tyranids. prolly the first army to do droppoding right)
2) Tervigon (great HQ & even greater Troop Model)
3) Tyrannofex (only thing even remotely fitting as "long range anti-tank")
4) Harpy (a fast MC that doesnt cost your arm & leg like the winged tyrant even though you only get t5 4+ for survivability is something that could bring a new spin to things).

And to a lesser extend swords & lashwhips for warriors and tyrant guards.

[Drunkencorgimaster]

I am just wondering why the original poster is saying this now? This is old news unless his/her intention was to bring it up to the front again so GW will notice it.

Please don't discourage him.;) It is admittedly an old topic, but hey...we've got a new post. Let's be grateful. It has been so dead around here lately!

[Melissia]

So we resort to "omg my codex sucks" then?

[facelessone]

the last 4 codexs i liked ,the knights F@#ked chaos hard,but still my # 1 ...weres summer of flyers???? i want the kits but will thay over power the game..a 200 $$$ thunderhalk would be sweet...

[Chuck777]

So we resort to "omg my codex sucks" then?

It does indeed suck. Having said that, no amount of complaining will rectify this fact. :(

[Emerald Rose Widow]

I am only beginning to play, but I have found I do pretty well with my nids in casual play, which is primarilly what I play in. It does seem that competetively from what I read there really isn't much the nids can do, because the knights and DE especially pwn their face in hard. Which is odd for monstrous creatures from another galaxy that at one time were considered the greatest threat to life.

But I do love my nids, fun to paint and play with me, my only real complaint being that major models and options are just not in the kits. this is the order of importance to me.

1) Tervigon (amazing HQ and troop, just awesome)
2) Boneswords and Lashwips for warriors and hive guard (why these arent there annoys me)
3) Tyrranofex (awesome amazing unit, great for a tank killer at range)
4) Mycetic Spore (just frelling useful)
5) Harpy (no experience with this yet so im not too bothered by it)


So we resort to "omg my codex sucks" then?

Wow, almost a whole 24 hours without you trolling a thread, what took you so long?

[Drunkencorgimaster]

But I do love my nids, fun to paint and play with me, my only real complaint being that major models and options are just not in the kits. this is the order of importance to me.

1) Tervigon (amazing HQ and troop, just awesome)
2) Boneswords and Lashwips for warriors and hive guard (why these arent there annoys me)
3) Tyrranofex (awesome amazing unit, great for a tank killer at range)
4) Mycetic Spore (just frelling useful)
5) Harpy (no experience with this yet so im not too bothered by it)



I agree with the fun factor. I'm not that competitive (or good).

I love, love, love the Tervigon. Main reason I finally won a small tournament. Spores are great too. The biovore is a lame model in my opinion (a gorilla with a cannon on its back), but for the low price it is a pretty effective bug. Love the Zoanthropes too.

Have you tried the Parasite? It is pretty hit and miss, but can really cause trouble against swarm armies.

Did you do a Tyrranofex conversion? If so, how did you do it?

[Chuck777]

The biovore is a lame model in my opinion (a gorilla with a cannon on its back), but for the low price it is a pretty



It's supposed to be an Orkish Nid, it looks perfect.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

I agree with the fun factor. I'm not that competitive (or good).

I love, love, love the Tervigon. Main reason I finally won a small tournament. Spores are great too. The biovore is a lame model in my opinion (a gorilla with a cannon on its back), but for the low price it is a pretty effective bug. Love the Zoanthropes too.

Have you tried the Parasite? It is pretty hit and miss, but can really cause trouble against swarm armies.

Did you do a Tyrranofex conversion? If so, how did you do it?

I havent done a tfex yet but mine will use a carnifex as the base, put two big as hell supporting arms using all 4 sockets, and it will have this massive cannon strapped to its back. Got the inspiration from blue table painting for it, and its like if you took the pyrovore, beefed it the hell up, and made it not suck, and made it artillery. It will be an interesting conversion when i finally get around to it.

Never tried the parisite, and I am more inclined to use the doom of malantai to be honest, as far as IC's go, and the swarmlord for that matter, that bugger is a beast.

[murrburger]

For my next army, I'll probably start either Nids or Slaanesh-themed Daemons (lol).

Kind of wish they had the love that Dark Eldar have. (I've played them since the starter set. They deserve a full range more than anyone.)

Yeah, the codex makes me pretty sad because there are so many cool units I want to include, but I can't fit them all in to one list. (Eldar syndrome). So I think I'll just buy to paint.

[Cyberscape7]

My question is what was going through Robbin Cruddaces head when he thought of fex squads of 3. Oh sure, you can have 3 Carnifex's in a squad! Which nid player wouldnt want that? By the way its 480 points base for the squad... And more to the point, each of the models in the squad has to be equipped the EXACT same way. So the most alien, diverse army in the universe has the strongest sense of uniformity? WTF!?
Ok rant over;)

[Emerald Rose Widow]

My question is what was going through Robbin Cruddaces head when he thought of fex squads of 3. Oh sure, you can have 3 Carnifex's in a squad! Which nid player wouldnt want that? By the way its 480 points base for the squad... And more to the point, each of the models in the squad has to be equipped the EXACT same way. So the most alien, diverse army in the universe has the strongest sense of uniformity? WTF!?
Ok rant over;)

No kidding right? But if you think about it from a fluff standpoint, the army focuses on creating the most evolutionary efficient bio-mutations. So feasibly it would make sense for uniformity if you think about it, because they wouldn't use something inefficient when it would be more biologically viable to make all the same thing in the hive.

[Dreadnought]

I don't have an issue with a brood of fexes, or anything for that matter, being uniformly equipped, but I have an issue with a base fex costing as much as it does. I want to use a brood of them and I want to make them melee monsters (maybe screamer-killers? Woo!), but I can't help but feel at the end of the day they will just get destroyed... not to mention take up about half of my armies points.

Also where are the flesh hooks? EVERYTHING could have flesh hooks in the last codex. And now a Lictor has them...... only the lictor.... shame I have this box of flesh hook bits because every model under the sun in the last edition could have them. If I didn't mind ruining the model I'd buy a lictor and glue every flesh hooks bit I had to emphasize how silly it is that no one else in the army can technically carry them anymore.

[L192837465]

My question is what was going through Robbin Cruddaces head when he thought of fex squads of 3. Oh sure, you can have 3 Carnifex's in a squad! Which nid player wouldnt want that? By the way its 480 points base for the squad... And more to the point, each of the models in the squad has to be equipped the EXACT same way. So the most alien, diverse army in the universe has the strongest sense of uniformity? WTF!?
Ok rant over;)

Well, to be fair, if they could be all equipped differently, you'd have the most ultimate wound-allocation shennanigans of everity. You'd be able to take like, 15 wounds before removing a single model, all with T:Bajillion. Yeah, balance? They don't care about balance!

[JxKxR]

I just wish more people would play tyranids... I just want to kill some bugs but no one around here will touch them.:(

[Emerald Rose Widow]

I just wish more people would play tyranids... I just want to kill some bugs but no one around here will touch them.:(

too bad, i play the crap out of them myself, even with the ****ty codex it is still a cool and fun army and I still do fairly well, just have to play my cards right.

[Cyberscape7]

Well, I havent abandoned my nids just yet. I still remain hopeful that Phil Kelly will one day return and save the Hive mind. Till then, I recently "fixed" some of my model to make them better. So far I have succeeded in making them better bar one unit. My Raveners have all been built with the deathspitter body, which I now realise I never use and never will probably. I'm figuring I'll just say it counts as having no gun; hopefully my opponents will be sympathetic cuz I'm a victim of 1st degree nerfs :o

[Drunkencorgimaster]

They really do remain a fun army despite the issue of competitiveness. I suspect that problem is really more of a issue in large, serious tournaments. For casual players and small tourneys, the Nids can still dish out some hurt if you play your cards right and the dice don't abandon you.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

They really do remain a fun army despite the issue of competitiveness. I suspect that problem is really more of a issue in large, serious tournaments. For casual players and small tourneys, the Nids can still dish out some hurt if you play your cards right and the dice don't abandon you.

I think the codex as it is would be pretty good with a FAQ points rebalance, and a tweak of some of the rules. The rediculous cost of some of the models is really the only truly bad thing. I mean the TFEX costs 25 more points than a frelling landraider and only has two shots. Costs twice as much as a hammerhead and only has one more shot than a railgun hammerhead. Yet both of those have either sponsons, or additional weapons, its kind of crappy if you think about it.

But I would love it if they would release the boneswords and lashwips for warriors already.

[Dreadnought]

I initially didn't realize just how expensive the tyranid monstrous creatures were until talking to some people at the local GWS. Maybe they will re-faq it and rebalance some of the points? Has anything like that ever been done before? Maybe they'll release a couple of new kits for the harpy, terivgon, t-fex, ect. and add another faq too!


...I can hope

[Ghoulio]

I think the codex as it is would be pretty good with a FAQ points rebalance, and a tweak of some of the rules. The rediculous cost of some of the models is really the only truly bad thing. I mean the TFEX costs 25 more points than a frelling landraider and only has two shots. Costs twice as much as a hammerhead and only has one more shot than a railgun hammerhead. Yet both of those have either sponsons, or additional weapons, its kind of crappy if you think about it.

But I would love it if they would release the boneswords and lashwips for warriors already.

For most part I would agree with you. One of the main issues with the book is how Cruddace grossly overestimated how powerful Monstrous Creatures without an invuln save are and how powerful Multi Wound T4 creatures are.

With no invuln save a Carnifex is the same as 4 space marines vs. krak missiles. It wouldn't be so bad if it was easier to get a 2+ save OR things were priced properly. I agree that certain things were too cheap in the last codex...but not by that much. Our current Hive Tyrant set up exactly how he is now should be 130-140pts max. They really aren't very good at all (4 attacks in CC...big deal). Carnifexs should be about 120pts base and Harpies (which are the most overcosted unit in the book hands down) should be about 100pts base or completely different stats.

The other big thing deals with Tyranid warriors. I wish they were either T4, 2W (like they have always been) and were 20pts each - OR - same cost but were T5, 2W. As it goes now unless you throw lashwhips/boneswords on them they really aren't good for anything. The other T4 creature (Raveners) would be amazing if they were just 30pts each WITH rending claws. If you could take biomorphs for them even better.

I think most people will agree that there are some good ideas in this book. Things like all the deployment options and the ideas behind a lot of the creatures. Where it falls apart is that it just feels massively rushed and NO ONE ever edited it. I would give ANYTHING for a "Tyranids 5th ed version 2.0" like they did with the old Dark Elf Army book (the 6th ed one?). I would happily pay $35 for it without any complaints. It would be a dead easy release too. Just it and the Tervigon kit would have the Tyranid population over the moon.

[Wildeybeast]

I quite like the current book, I don't see any major problems with it, other than a couple of units beign rendered useless (my biovores went ebay the second I read the book). My major gripes are the fact that we still don't have most of the new units in model form and the fact that half my army is now 'counts as' because of the lack of customization in the new codex. But they are still pretty competitive, provided you pick the right stuff.

[Anggul]

I quite like the current book, I don't see any major problems with it, other than a couple of units beign rendered useless (my biovores went ebay the second I read the book). My major gripes are the fact that we still don't have most of the new units in model form and the fact that half my army is now 'counts as' because of the lack of customization in the new codex. But they are still pretty competitive, provided you pick the right stuff.

Eh? Biovores are one of the only units that actually became pretty good. 135pts for 3 S4 AP4 large blasts a turn, which make spore mines if they fly way off target? Sounds good to me, I bought another 2 to accompany my lonely one which never saw use in my 4th ed army.

As for major problems... I can name problems with literally every single unit apart from Zoanthropes.

[Drunkencorgimaster]

I agree. Biovores strike me as one of the better deals point-wise in the codex.

[Wildeybeast]

Eh? Biovores are one of the only units that actually became pretty good. 135pts for 3 S4 AP4 large blasts a turn, which make spore mines if they fly way off target? Sounds good to me, I bought another 2 to accompany my lonely one which never saw use in my 4th ed army.

As for major problems... I can name problems with literally every single unit apart from Zoanthropes.

Then I don't think you were using them properly in the last codex. They were the most hatedpart of army in our gaming groups. Toxin mines were great at killing big creatures whilst the bio-acid was a guaranteed power armour killer that could also mess up vehicles. Given that the current version is only 1 AP point better than the old frag spores, and they are only 30pts cheaper, I really don't see how you could think they were improved.

And I challenge you to name me a problem with genestealers or warriors or termagants.

[murrburger]

Biovorest, on paper look effective for their points cost...

However, they fill a role the Nid army can already handle by itself: anti-infantry. This makes them largely redundant, and usually not worth the Heavy Support slot. Many nids armies struggle against armour, and/or having their high-value units shot. Biovores sitting in the back, maybe killing a few space marines usually doesn't help address these problems.

[Ello_Thar]

And I challenge you to name me a problem with genestealers or warriors or termagants.

Genestealers: No access to frag grenades.

Warriors: Overcosted for their survivability.

Termagants: Don't see any real problem with these guys really. Fearless sucks, but that's for everyone.

[chicop76]

The new nid codex have a lot of cons, here is my con list.

1. The army lost frag grenades
2. Instead of a strength upgrade that last the whole game, we get furious charge without grenades
3. Carnifex double the cost
4. Tyrant cost more.
5. No dakka fex re rolling to hit and wound
6. Lost weapons that can re roll to wound
7. Lost a large strength 8 pie plate
8. Tyrant lost attacks and winged tyrant lost 2+ save
9. Tyrant lose warp blast
10. Lost str 6 small blast on my warriors using deathspitters
11. Nids lost immunity to instant death
12. Nids fail leadership checks they run off the board instead of towards the nearest synapse creature
13. Zonathorpes with a +2 save and a 4+ cover save with eternal warrior was harder to kill then a model with just a 3+ invulnerable
14. Broodlord lost synapse, upgrade options, and power weapon attacks
15. Genestealers lost grenades
16. Termagaunts shooting was very helpful against higher toughness models thanks to re rolling to wound
17 Lictor lost the abilty to assault when it comes in from the board
18. Lost strength 10 barbed stranglers, which didn't kill a vehicle, but stopped it from doing anything
19. Lost +1 to bs upgrade
20. Tyrant lost the ability to get a +6 invulnerable
21. Nidzilla is less effective and more focus towards smaller units
22. Carnifex lost options for higher toughness, save, and extra wounds
23. Some units like Termagaunts lost fleet.
24. Lost customisation on many units
25. Biovores lost the 3 mine option and can't really take out tanks any more or marines.
26. Int upgrade
27. Catalyst the ability to still while dead
28. Strength 10 carnifex
29. Winged tyrant with 6 attacks on the charge
30. Warriors can be differnant and don't die easily to a batle canon shot.
31. Genestealers with a 4+ save
32. 12 shot gun tyrant at re roll bs 4 and wound got nerfed.
33. The old codex had all the models, so I don't have to make my own

I will leave the list at 33 for now. If I read the book and think of more I can probably get up to 30+. I'm not going to list the pros, because the cons really out weigh the pros.

[Lemt]

The new nid codex have a lot of cons, here is my con list.

1. The army lost frag grenades
2. Instead of a strength upgrade that last the whole game, we get furious charge without grenades
3. Carnifex double the cost
4. Tyrant cost more.
5. No dakka fex re rolling to hit and wound
6. Lost weapons that can re roll to wound
7. Lost a large strength 8 pie plate
8. Tyrant lost attacks and winged tyrant lost 2+ save
9. Tyrant lose warp blast
10. Lost str 6 small blast on my warriors using deathspitters
11. Nids lost immunity to instant death
12. Nids fail leadership checks they run off the board instead of towards the nearest synapse creature
13. Zonathorpes with a +2 save and a 4+ cover save with eternal warrior was harder to kill then a model with just a 3+ invulnerable
14. Broodlord lost synapse, upgrade options, and power weapon attacks
15. Genestealers lost grenades
16. Termagaunts shooting was very helpful against higher toughness models thanks to re rolling to wound
17 Lictor lost the abilty to assault when it comes in from the board
18. Lost strength 10 barbed stranglers, which didn't kill a vehicle, but stopped it from doing anything
19. Lost +1 to bs upgrade
20. Tyrant lost the ability to get a +6 invulnerable
21. Nidzilla is less effective and more focus towards smaller units
22. Carnifex lost options for higher toughness, save, and extra wounds
23. Some units like Termagaunts lost fleet.
24. Lost customisation on many units
25. Biovores lost the 3 mine option and can't really take out tanks any more or marines.

I will leave the list at 25 for now. If I read the book and think of more I can probably get up to 30+. I'm not going to list the pros, because the cons really out weigh the pros.

But... that just makes playing nids more fun! If you win, you get a good laugh!
I started the game playing Necrons (just when 5th came out), so the new Tyranids are an improvement for me. Specially considering I generally fight against marines and IG...

[chicop76]

But... that just makes playing nids more fun! If you win, you get a good laugh!
I started the game playing Necrons (just when 5th came out), so the new Tyranids are an improvement for me. Specially considering I generally fight against marines and IG...

The only army I've found the new nids to be good against is orcs. In the last edition I had a hard time with orcs and now I destroy them. Against other armies I still win, but have a harder time doing so. My old nid army did really well against guard and now have a hard time against them now.

My old Nid list was like this:
5 warp blast
4 str 10 glancing
2 str 8 large blast
16 str 6 re roll to hit and wound shots
6 str 6 small blast
1 str 5 large blast
3 str 9 shots glancing

With 9 str 10 shots who was afraid of a landraider

Now I have
3 warp blast
4 str 10
6-12 str 8 shots

As you can see my old nids dish out more shooting then my newer nids at a cheaper cost.

Sure the nid dex can put out cheap/ free gaunts with feel no pain, furious, charge, poison, counter attack at leadership 10, preffered enemy, difficult, and dangerous terain checks to assault them. All that doesn't help against a vehicle or against units with high int. I'm forced to do less shooting and use my gaunts, instead of running high stealers with a large amount of cover fire wih some gaunts for shooting support.

Overall the new Nids is the most nerfed 5th edition book to date.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

With no invuln save a Carnifex is the same as 4 space marines vs. krak missiles. It wouldn't be so bad if it was easier to get a 2+ save OR things were priced properly. I agree that certain things were too cheap in the last codex...but not by that much. Our current Hive Tyrant set up exactly how he is now should be 130-140pts max. They really aren't very good at all (4 attacks in CC...big deal). Carnifexs should be about 120pts base and Harpies (which are the most overcosted unit in the book hands down) should be about 100pts base or completely different stats.

The other big thing deals with Tyranid warriors. I wish they were either T4, 2W (like they have always been) and were 20pts each - OR - same cost but were T5, 2W. As it goes now unless you throw lashwhips/boneswords on them they really aren't good for anything. The other T4 creature (Raveners) would be amazing if they were just 30pts each WITH rending claws. If you could take biomorphs for them even better.

I think most people will agree that there are some good ideas in this book. Things like all the deployment options and the ideas behind a lot of the creatures. Where it falls apart is that it just feels massively rushed and NO ONE ever edited it. I would give ANYTHING for a "Tyranids 5th ed version 2.0" like they did with the old Dark Elf Army book (the 6th ed one?). I would happily pay $35 for it without any complaints. It would be a dead easy release too. Just it and the Tervigon kit would have the Tyranid population over the moon.

Yeah, warriors die so frelling easy to instant death it is just sad, and at low points games it is just sad how easilly our best synapse creature is to take down. "LOL LETS SHOOT THE WARRIORS" and at low points games its pretty much game over from there.

And it bugs me to hell that such a great upgrade like boneswords and lashwips for warriors isn't in the bloody box, i mean seriously.

I love my nids, and I love some of the neat stuff in that book, but there are just some points issues that need to be addressed.

I agree though if they came out with a fixed codex I would throw out the $35 dollars for it in an instance to play som eproper nids.