New Dan Abnett Horus Heresy novel "Know No Fear" (the Battle of Calth)

[Morgan Darkstar]

Here is the cover artwork for the upcoming Dan Abnett Horus Heresy novel "Know No Fear" (the Battle of Calth)

Aparrently the marine missing his helmet in hard vacuum is none other than Roboute Guilliman.

in the grim darkness of the far future, oxygen is optional! :D

[SMC]

Hey, maybe it'll be about some random human that no one gives a **** about for 95% of the book with the last three chapters barely mentioning the Battle for Calth. That'd be awesome and completely respectful to Ultramarine fans.

[Lancel]

Why am I not surprised that Roboute is Batman and can breathe in space? Pretty picture though.

[Mike X]

Here is the cover artwork for the upcoming Dan Abnett Horus Heresy novel "Know No Fear" (the Battle of Calth)

Aparrently the marine missing his helmet in hard vacuum is none other than Roboute Guilliman.

in the grim darkness of the far future, oxygen is optional! :D

I was trying to find an excuse for why he'd be unaffected by the vacuum but I got nothing on this one. Maybe the Geller field protects them?


Why am I not surprised that Roboute is Batman and can breathe in space? Pretty picture though.

Breathing isn't an issue, really, since they could just hold their breath as if they were underwater. The problem with being unprotected by the vacuum of space is it's literally −454° (Fahrenheit) and anything that's oxygen-based would explode.

[plawolf]

I was trying to find an excuse for why he'd be unaffected by the vacuum but I got nothing on this one. Maybe the Geller field protects them?



Breathing isn't an issue, really, since they could just hold their breath as if they were underwater. The problem with being unprotected by the vacuum of space is it's literally −454° (Fahrenheit) and anything that's oxygen-based would explode.

Trying to hold a deep breath in vacuum will result in your lungs exploding because of the extreme pressure difference.

Unless the shields of the ship can create an air bubble close to the hull, that picture has just gone way too far and is just plain silly.

[Lancel]

It's not that bad. It technically is that cold, but there's like one atom to occupy several square feet in space, so there's nothing to actually conduct heat against. The only way heat really escapes is by thermal radiation, which things with heat always bleed off (Example: The Command Module on Apollo 13 was shut down completely for days while still in space, and had grown cold enough for liquid to condense on surfaces. Condense, not freeze, it wasn't -that- cold yet). Once in a vacuum the only real concern is air, which there is none of, and a normal human being would lose consciousness after roughly ten seconds as the blood rapidly deoxygenates and fails to get enough oxygen to the brain. NASA ran some experiments on this with monkeys and determined that a human being can survive this state for roughly 90 seconds before brain death occurs. The interesting bit is that they also determined that if you don't cross the brain death threshold there is no apparent permanent damage and as long as oxygen supply is restored a human being (and indeed the monkeys) were perfectly fine again within a few minutes. A bigger danger I've heard is being exposed to direct sunlight without an atmosphere or even a magnetic field to protect the body from being cooked, especially with no air to relieve heat. I really don't know what that would do, but I figure it would probably kill you later with skin cancer.

The explodey bit is just from explosive decompression, which can potentially cause harm if it happens very suddenly. I mean just look at the Lunar Module from the Apollo program, the space ships would be a bit tougher if they were prone to exploding. That said I'm not sure you'd be able to hold you breath in a vacuum, the seal may not be strong enough to stay sealed in a vacuum. Certainly that air will be wanting to go out of the lungs, but I doubt regular humans could hold their breath. I doubt it would explode your lungs, but it might cause some damage, probably just blow out through the nose and lips though.

Anyway, sorry about this, had to do it. :/ Either way, that man is a Primarch Space Marine, which by definition is Way Over The Top, so as far as 40k is concerned... this is plausible.

[Xas]

a space marine can easily do it.
the only straining fact is to either keep their lungs resisting one atmosphere pressure differential or haveing enough oxygene stored in the bloodstream itself (so lungs can be empthied).

[Melissia]

That image is extremely busy, and not in a good way...

[Mike X]

Trying to hold a deep breath in vacuum will result in your lungs exploding because of the extreme pressure difference.

Unless the shields of the ship can create an air bubble close to the hull, that picture has just gone way too far and is just plain silly.

What I meant by the "holding their breath" suggestion was if the lack of oxygen in space were the only hazard a biological creature would face.

[Lockark]

When I loaded that image I only have one thing to say about it.

It's 3:41 right now, and I'm way to tired to even comprehend what I'm looking at.

[SotonShades]

I like it. I'm a big Abnett fan, so really looking forward to another novel from him. I love the HH series, so you know I'll be buying this anyway. I even think the artwork is cool. In the fluff in days gone by GW have mentioned Space Marines fighting at the bottom of oceans and in hard vacuum time and again, but as far as I can remember, this is the first time we have actually seen it in artwork (please someone correct me if it's just something I've not spotted in the last 14 years).

Not sure how I feel about Gulliman going helmetless in space, but then again if anyone could it would be a Primach. Equally, if I can suspend disbelief enough to accept tat Imperial aircraft could actually fly, I'm sure I can cope with this :D

[Michael_maggs]

i thought the gauntlets of ultramar were prised from the corpse of a worldeaters champion after the heresy
have i just made this up or will there be some rewite in the fluff?

[Grailkeeper]

Thanks for the pic, I knew the gauntlets were from a chaos champion at something called the Gamalia Reclusiam Massacre- does anyone know what that is?

Also if the Primarchs are giants- how does the gauntlets fit regular sized Chaptermasters?

[Wildeybeast]

Hey, maybe it'll be about some random human that no one gives a **** about for 95% of the book with the last three chapters barely mentioning the Battle for Calth. That'd be awesome and completely respectful to Ultramarine fans.

Really? There are Ultramarine fans?;)

[snikrot]

i am 90% shure it talks about how long space marines can last in space somewhere in the fluff or books as i clearly remember reading it somewhere just cant remember in what book.

[AngelsofDeath]

Well I enjoy Science Fiction myself. Not Science Dissection.

But here we have people that are concerned that someone is breathing or not wearing a helm in space on the cover art....and its been analized that its not realistic.... But the Space marine itself and the powerfist and bolters and the big space ship is real?

Hmmm....K

[Grailkeeper]

I just realised he punched head off that word bearer, the one floating at the front.

Where did you get this pic? Do you have anymore inside details?

[Morgan Darkstar]

the pic was sent to me by a friend however it has been floating around the interwebs for a day or two.

as to other information, none that i can reveal unfortunately.

Oh and just because i haven't seen it posted, here is the cover of Dan Abnett's upcoming Gaunts Ghosts novel "Salvation's Reach" again sent to me by a friend.

[SotonShades]

I guess Mr Abnett is getting quite a bit of my money in the not too distant future :D

[AngelsofDeath]

The pic is on the Black Library website:

http://www.blacklibrary.com/

scroll down about 1/2 way

[Melissia]

It is indeed the cover.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/Product/DefaultBL/xlarge/Know-no-Fear.jpg

Persoanlly I'm more interested in Imperial Glory. Sounds like something worth reading, along with Salvation Reach and Path of the Seer.

[Mike X]

i thought the gauntlets of ultramar were prised from the corpse of a worldeaters champion after the heresy
have i just made this up or will there be some rewite in the fluff?

Marneus Calgar wears the gauntlets, not Guilliman. Notice how Guilliman's power fists lack underslung bolters.


Well I enjoy Science Fiction myself. Not Science Dissection.

But here we have people that are concerned that someone is breathing or not wearing a helm in space on the cover art....and its been analized that its not realistic.... But the Space marine itself and the powerfist and bolters and the big space ship is real?

Hmmm....K

All of those things are scientifically possible. Even Space Marines are possible to create, we just don't have the technology for them yet. But the hard vacuum of space is guaranteed to obliterate an unprotected life form.

[navi]

But the hard vacuum of space is guaranteed to obliterate an unprotected life form.

Science begs to differ. http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/12855775

[Verilance]

since the topic has become central to the discussion of a fictional super-human beyond even the regular Space marines


The Question

(Submitted June 03, 1997)
How would the unprotected human body react to the vacuum of outer space? Would it inflate to bursting? or would it not? or would just the interior gases hyperinflate? We are also relating this to short-term exposure only. This question primarily relates to the pressure differential problems. Temperature or radiation considerations would be interesting as well.

The question arose out of a discussion of the movie 2001. When Dave "blew" himself into the airlock from the pod without a helmet, should he have "blown up" or is there "no difference" as shown in the movie correct?

The Answer

From the now extinct page http://medlib/jsc.nasa.gov/intro/vacuum.html:

How long can a human live unprotected in space?

If you don't try to hold your breath, exposure to space for half a minute or so is unlikely to produce permanent injury. Holding your breath is likely to damage your lungs, something scuba divers have to watch out for when ascending, and you'll have eardrum trouble if your Eustachian tubes are badly plugged up, but theory predicts -- and animal experiments confirm -- that otherwise, exposure to vacuum causes no immediate injury. You do not explode. Your blood does not boil. You do not freeze. You do not instantly lose consciousness.

Various minor problems (sunburn, possibly "the bends", certainly some [mild, reversible, painless] swelling of skin and underlying tissue) start after ten seconds or so. At some point you lose consciousness from lack of oxygen. Injuries accumulate. After perhaps one or two minutes, you're dying. The limits are not really known.

You do not explode and your blood does not boil because of the containing effect of your skin and circulatory system. You do not instantly freeze because, although the space environment is typically very cold, heat does not transfer away from a body quickly. Loss of consciousness occurs only after the body has depleted the supply of oxygen in the blood. If your skin is exposed to direct sunlight without any protection from its intense ultraviolet radiation, you can get a very bad sunburn.

At NASA's Manned Spacecraft Center (now renamed Johnson Space Center) we had a test subject accidentally exposed to a near vacuum (less than 1 psi) in an incident involving a leaking space suit in a vacuum chamber back in '65. He remained conscious for about 14 seconds, which is about the time it takes for O2 deprived blood to go from the lungs to the brain. The suit probably did not reach a hard vacuum, and we began repressurizing the chamber within 15 seconds. The subject regained consciousness at around 15,000 feet equivalent altitude. The subject later reported that he could feel and hear the air leaking out, and his last conscious memory was of the water on his tongue beginning to boil.

Aviation Week and Space Technology (02/13/95) printed a letter by Leonard Gordon which reported another vacuum-packed anecdote:

"The experiment of exposing an unpressurized hand to near vacuum for a significant time while the pilot went about his business occurred in real life on Aug. 16, 1960. Joe Kittinger, during his ascent to 102,800 ft (19.5 miles) in an open gondola, lost pressurization of his right hand. He decided to continue the mission, and the hand became painful and useless as you would expect. However, once back to lower altitudes following his record-breaking parachute jump, the hand returned to normal."

References:

Frequently Asked Questions on sci.space.*/sci.astro

The Effect on the Chimpanzee of Rapid Decompression to a Near Vacuum, Alfred G. Koestler ed., NASA CR-329 (Nov 1965).

Experimental Animal Decompression to a Near Vacuum Environment, R.W. Bancroft, J.E. Dunn, eds, Report SAM-TR-65-48 (June 1965), USAF School of Aerospace Medicine, Brooks AFB, Texas.

Survival Under Near-Vacuum Conditions in the article "Barometric Pressure," by C.E. Billings, Chapter 1 of Bioastronautics Data Book, Second edition, NASA SP-3006, edited by James F. Parker Jr. and Vita R. West, 1973.

Personal communication, James Skipper, NASA/JSC Crew Systems Division, December 14, 1994.

Henry Spencer wrote the following for the sci.space FAQ:

How Long Can a Human Live Unprotected in Space?

If you *don't* try to hold your breath, exposure to space for half a minute of so is unlikely to produce permanent injury. Holding your breath is likely to damage your lungs, something scuba divers have to watch out for when ascending, and you'll have eardrum trouble if your Eustachian tubes are badly plugged up, but theory predicts -- and animal experiments confirm -- that otherwise, exposure to vacuum causes no immediate injury. You do not explode. Your blood does not boil. You do not freeze. You do not instantly lose consciousness.

Various minor problems (sunburn, possibly "the bends", certainly some [mild, reversible, painless] swelling of skin and underlying tissue) start after 10 seconds or so. At some point you lose consciousness from lack of oxygen. Injuries accumulate. After perhaps one or two minutes you're dying. The limits are not really known.

References:

The Effect on the Chimpanzee of Rapid Decompression to a Near Vacuum, Alfred G. Koestler ed., NASA CR-329 (Nov. 1965)

Experimental Animal Decompression to a Near Vacuum Environment, R.W. Bancroft, J.E. Dunn, eds, Report SAM-TR-65-48 (June 1965), USAF School of Aerospace Medicine, Brooks AFB, Texas.

You would probably pass out in around 15 seconds because your lungs are now exchanging oxygen out of the blood. The reason that a human does not burst is that our skin has some strength. For instance compressed oxygen in a steel tank may be at several hundreds times the pressure of the air outside and the strength of the steel keeps the cylinder from breaking. Although our skin is not steel, it still is strong enough to keep our bodies from bursting in space.

Also, the vapor pressure of water at 37 C is 47 mm Hg. As long as you keep your blood-pressure above that (which you will unless you go deep into shock) your blood will not boil. My guess is that the body seems to regulate blood pressure as a gauge, rather than absolute pressure (e.g. your blood vessels don't collapse when you dive 10 feet into a pool).

The saliva on your tongue might boil, however.

For more information and references, see http://www.sff.net/people/geoffrey.landis/vacuum.html

Hope this helps!
The Ask an Astrophysicist Team

Questions on this topic are no longer responded to by the "Ask an Astrophysicist" service. See http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/ask_an_astronomer.html for help on other astronomy Q&A services.



Science begs to differ. http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/12855775

beat me by a minute lol

[Morgan Darkstar]

Marneus Calgar wears the gauntlets, not Guilliman. Notice how Guilliman's power fists lack underslung bolters.

from 4th ed marine codex


The Gauntlets of Ultramar are two mighty Power Fists with incorporated Bolters that were reclaimed from a fallen Chaos champion, slain during the Gamalia Reclusiam Massacre by the Primarch of the Ultramarines, Roboute Guilliman himself. No one has been able to penetrate the thick adamantine shell of the fists to study the workings inside. While not in use, the Gauntlets are stored within a crystal case at the Fortress of Hera, inside the Temple of Correction's "Shrine of the Great Primarch". In combat, the 'Gauntlets of Ultramar' are worn exclusively by Marneus Calgar, the Chapter Master.

Not sure if this has been retconned.

[Grailkeeper]

Marneus Calgar wears the gauntlets, not Guilliman. Notice how Guilliman's power fists lack underslung bolters.

.

Nope Gulliman had them first, they are there- its easier to see them on the hand thats further away because the punching hand is at an odd angle. They're less notible because the bolters are blue, not the usual red.

[AngelsofDeath]

But the hard vacuum of space is guaranteed to obliterate an unprotected life form.

Or so you have been told...... Just a bit to think about my friend.

[Wildeybeast]

Who says this is actually in a vacuum? Yes there is space in the background and they appear to be in zero g, but in many SF stories, space ships have atmosphere integrity shields which activate in the the case of hull breaches, and in hangar bays to allow crews to work in the hangar bay and ships to quickly get in and out without having to faff around with some complicated airlock system. So they could be fighting within an atmosphere 'bubble' that surronds the ship. Or it could just be that GW has chosen to modify the laws of nature for entertainment purposes. I'm seem to recall that there are Tyranid organisms which can survive deep space by entering a hibernation state, so why can't SM wander around out there for a few minutes and punch some dudes in the head?

[MarneusCalgar]

Well, talking about a future when a simple spaceship can destroy an entire planet (Exterminatus), and where men are almost 3 meters tall with hightened senses and strength, wiser than ever... Seems no strange for me!!

And of course I´m happy finally Roboute makes a brilliant apparition on the HH series!!

[Ubberdorc]

Maybe the Iron Halo creates a bubble of atmosphere around his head. That is how all space marine comanders get away with not wearing helmets into battle... 8)

[murrburger]

Maybe he's just so awesome he doesn't give a ****.

Punching a Word Bearer's guts out while yelling in a hard vacuum is probably just another day for him.

[wittdooley]

Maybe he ate some Gillyweed. That works in space too, right?

[murrburger]

Don't even go there, man. Don't even go there.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

nice artwork, but too cramped and lacking definition to make out real details of what is happening. Not surprising that now SM's can survive hard vacuum too, have to give fanboys more to drool over.

[SMC]

nice artwork, but too cramped and lacking definition to make out real details of what is happening. Not surprising that now SM's can survive hard vacuum too, have to give fanboys more to drool over.

Or people that have a problem with Astartes morel to complain about...

I don't know what it is about Sisters players hating on SMs. I mean, your army gets super powers from "believing" really hard. Don't throw stones in glass cathedrals.

[LemanRussCommander]

in a realm of psychic fire, demons, different dimensions, 3 toe'd communist blueskins, tellyporta's (or anything ork related), gods, oh and don't forget the space insects on PCP, we're really gonna argue about the ability of a genetically enhanced super soldier to survive in vaccum without a helmet?

[Morgan Darkstar]

in a realm of psychic fire, demons, different dimensions, 3 toe'd communist blueskins, tellyporta's (or anything ork related), gods, oh and don't forget the space insects on PCP, we're really gonna argue about the ability of a genetically enhanced super soldier to survive in vaccum without a helmet?

Of course we are!

[LemanRussCommander]

Of course we are!

well then, let the nerd rage continue

E=MCbolter to the face

[Morgan Darkstar]

well then, let the nerd rage continue

E=MCbolter to the face

Lol :D


nice artwork, but too cramped and lacking definition to make out real details of what is happening. Not surprising that now SM's can survive hard vacuum too, have to give fanboys more to drool over.

hey thats a bit unfair, Space Marines dont just survive in a vacuum they they go there for fun. :p

[JxKxR]

I want a 40k book without space marines.

I'll just keep dreaming now...

[Verilance]

I want a 40k book without space marines.

I'll just keep dreaming now...

my bookshelf is full of them, I only own one 40k book that is exclusively Space Marine and that is Iron Snakes by Dan Abnett

[SMC]

Yeah...are you joking? There are tons of books that don't involve Astartes. I'd suggest the Ciaphas Cain series. Some people like Abnett's Gaunts Ghosts. There quite a bit more as well.

[wittdooley]

Rogue Trader books, Ravenor Series, Eisenhorn Series, a plethora of IG books.....

[fuzzbuket]

why is there a white guardsman helmet floating next to the chaos marine ? still looks good :)