Emergency Disembark from a Raven

[s_harrington]

With a bit of measuring I realized that my dreadnaught is less then 2" from the wing tip of a Stormraven when standing flat on the table. The rules for emergency disembark only require a model to be 2" not it's base.With that in mind:

Since the new faq declares wings are part of the hull; can a Dread emergency disembark off the wings of a Raven?
For that matter, can infantry disembark from the wings, if the Raven had been immobilized previously and was sitting on the table sans base?

It seems incredible and unrealistic... but then again, I always thought putting giant wings on vehicles in 40k was a really stupid idea that would lead to numerous arguments.

[Nabterayl]

No, you emergency disembark from the base. You can deduce this from the rulebook 1.4 FAQ, which states that if the oval base of a skimmer transport on such a base is completely surrounded and the transport is wrecked, the transported models are killed.

[DrLove42]

Incorrect


When the unit disembarks each model is deployed within 2" of one of the vehicles access points and within unit coherency. Models cannot disembark within 1" of an enemy

If models cannot disembark because of enemies or impassable terrain, the unit can perform an "emergency disembarkation" - the models are deployed anywhere within 2" of the vehicles hull


(Emphasis added...)

Disembarking is done from the HULL not the BASE. Or disembarking from models like the falcon or raider would be impossible

Ergo If the vehicle is wrecked normally they have to disembark from the back. If there is an enemy under the rear door then they can disembark from any other part of the hull, which now includes the wings. You don't measure lateral distances for this...otherwise if you put your flier on a higher stand no one could get out ever. The dreadnaughts are treated in the same way. They only have 1 access point and that is the back where they are attatched. Just remember if you emerengcy disembark then you cannot do anything at all in your next turn

If it explodes they are just left where the vehicles are.

[Kawauso]

No, disembarking is done from the base on models using the large flying stand (currently Valkyries and Stormravens).

And while the dreadnought is attached on the back of Stormraven, there's nothing in the rules stating it has to disembark from the 'back'. There are 4 access points on the Stormraven. The dreadnought is embarked on the vehicle. It can disembark from any access point (i.e. anywhere within 2" of the Stormraven's base).

[DrLove42]

SKIMMERS

As Normal for vehicles distances are measured to and from the skimmers hull with the exception of weapons, access points and fire points which all work as normal. The skimmers bases is effectivly ignored except when assaulting a skimmer in which case models may move into cotact with a skimmer base, hull or both.


Now unless there is something in the FAQ or appropriate codex that says something else (and i'm not ruling that possibilty out...I havent read the FAQs in a while nor own either of the 3 relevant codexes (GK, BA for Ravens or Guard for Valks) they are still skimmers until 6th edition makes them fliers.

Therefore until you can provide something that says otherwise you do use the hull, not the base for disembarking

[Nabterayl]

Disembarking is done from the HULL not the BASE. Or disembarking from models like the falcon or raider would be impossible
For most skimmers that is true. However, we have the following from the rulebook 1.4FAQ:


Q: If a skimmer on a large oval flying base is wrecked, and its base is completely surrounded by enemy
models, are all embarked models killed? (p71)
A: Yes.

If it were true that you can disembark from the hull of a skimmer on a large oval flying base, and not just from the base, then this FAQ would not be a clarification, since the skimmer in question would not be surrounded. The only way this FAQ is a clarification is if you disembark from skimmers on large oval flying bases from the base. Indeed, as the Imperial Guard FAQ states:


Q. How do you treat the Valkyrie base for gaming? Due to its height it seems that it is impossible for a Valkyrie to contest an objective, or for troops to disembark/embark normally.
A. Follow the rules in Measuring Distances in the Skimmers section in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook with the following exception: For the purposes of contesting objectives and embarking/disembarking from a Valkyrie or Vendetta, measure to and from the model’s base. For example, models wishing to embark within a Valkyrie can do so if at the end of their movement, all models within the unit are within 2" of the Valkyrie’s base.

Thus, we know you disembark from the base of a Valkyrie or Vendetta. The 1.4 FAQ clarifies, in an indirect but definite way, that the same is true for all skimmers on large oval flying bases.

[DrLove42]

Thanks for the clarification. I haven't gone through the FAQ in a while

If your immobilised...and you remove the base and put it on the terrain does it happen then?

[Nabterayl]

Well, if you're simply immobilized, I don't think there's any problem with disembarking from the access points. And if you're wrecked, you can still use the base.

If you're immobilized, taken off your stand, and then wrecked (and for some reason haven't gotten out of your immobilized transport) ... I don't think GW has thought of that, so just work it out with your partner. My personal vote would be to treat the wings as not-hull for purposes of emergency disembarkation, as long as I'm working out what we should do with my opponent.

[Lerra]

The rules here aren't terribly elegant, but I agree with Nab. The oval-base-skimmers are a distinct subcategory of skimmers with their own special rules for embarking and disembarking. I'm hoping this gets cleaned up for 6th edition.

[Tynskel]

Remember, you do not have to remove the stand, but in this case, it would be advantageous for you to remove th stand in this case.

[DarkLink]

The Raven is more than 2" off the ground on top of the base, so it's impossible to deploy within 2" and thus everything is destroyed. And no, you don't remove the stand or do anything with the destroyed Raven until after you've disembarked.


Seriously, this was already covered with the Valkyrie. Measure from the base, just like GW tells you to. Not that complicated.

[Tynskel]

Well, if you're simply immobilized, I don't think there's any problem with disembarking from the access points. And if you're wrecked, you can still use the base.

If you're immobilized, taken off your stand, and then wrecked (and for some reason haven't gotten out of your immobilized transport) ... I don't think GW has thought of that, so just work it out with your partner. My personal vote would be to treat the wings as not-hull for purposes of emergency disembarkation, as long as I'm working out what we should do with my opponent.

There are many reasons not to get out of your transport when you are immobilized, especially something as big as a Stormraven. The chances of blocking to prevent disembarkation are small, unless you dedicate your army toward it.

Staying in your transport means your guys are relatively invulnerable. I have many a game stayed inside the transport waiting for the opportune time to disembark.

[lobster-overlord]

The Raven is more than 2" off the ground on top of the base, so it's impossible to deploy within 2" and thus everything is destroyed. And no, you don't remove the stand or do anything with the destroyed Raven until after you've disembarked.


3D coherency is allowed for units, so one could assume that "from the hull" or even "from the base" could be to any part of the disembarking model, thus a dread is about 3 inches high, thus the base of the dread could be 5 inches below the hull, and the top of the dread would still be within 2 inches of the hull of the vehicle. Same with troops disembarking into multilevel terrain.