Eldar Guardians, viable?

[Goresmack]

Does anybody use Eldar Guardians? Outside of using them as extra wounds for a scatter laser I don't see much point. Storm Guardians seem to be a bit of a joke as well, that strength 3 just isn't enough when I can throw Scorpions at the problem. Anybody have a good use for Guardians?

-Goresmack

[Timbo]

I have found guardian defenders to be utter rubbish. Storm guys are slightly better because with a warlock they can have 3 flamers, or 2 fusion guns and a singing spear. They are still a little overcosted but cheaper than a kitted out Avenger squad.

[vman]

Depends on the role but in general they are weak.

Fluff makes them just Eldar citizens in wargear.

If you run them in front of an important squad they make for good cover. Also if you include a warlock with the unit that has conceal then the whole squad gets a 5+ cover save. This makes the whole squad that little bit more survivable especially weapons that have good ap values.

They have their purpose.

[Bitey]

I do find defenders useful. With the most cost effective wepaon- the scatter laser, a min-sized squad makes a cheap, objective holding, fire support unit that is reasonably resilient to enemy fire (more due to being 10 strong than actual resilience- always try to keep them in cover too) and has the short range firepower to deal a decent amount of damage to any deepstrikers/ fast enemy units trying to attack your objective.

They can also be useful for advancing on objectives as they will probably be overlooked, (as long as you don't leave them obviously exposed as easy bolter fodder) in favour of your flashier aspect warriors, tanks etc

[vman]

I agree with Bitey.

Taking a large group of guardians with a heavy weapons platform and camping them in cover and on an objective is a good way to hinder the enemy... If you can take a position that may make assualting difficult you have an even better advantage. By taking a star cannon you have the ability to remove terminators without allowing armor saves, and this opens a world of hurt considering the relatively cheap cost of the unit.

Again you would need to utilise the unit PROPERLY, however any eldar player should realise that using a squad properly and to its full potential is what playing eldar is all about.

If you are playing a low points battle taking 3 x 10 squads of guardians easily allows you to take the required 3 troops options for 95 points per squad if you take scatter lasers. Not bad when you think about it for 285 points you get 30 troops, 24 dedicated shuriken catapults and 3 scatter lasers (9 str6 shots). You can spend the rest of your points of whatever else you see fit. 345 points, take 3 prisms.

I am ranting on a little, but the moral is they have their purpose. I would tend to take Dire Avengers over guardians, however its not to say i would never use them

[Kelmon]

Storm guardians with flamers accompanied by a warlock with destructor in a serpent makes a expensive, but effective mass infantry killing squad.

Guardians on jetbikes are ideal objective grabbers in late turns.

Defenders are useless in my opinion ... too expensive, tooo vulnerable ... 6P each an modified costs/stats for heavy weapons or 2 heavy or 4 special weapons would be fine ...

[Warfare]

I still do well with my guardian/wraithlord/pathfinder based list. 2x20 strong units of guardians, 2 shadowseers with conceal (sometimes enhance depending on the enemy), 2 farseers (fortune, doom, stones etc) 2-3 wraithlords all have BL's. still leaves me with enough points for pathfinders.

Always underestimated but the equivalent to 40 bolter rounds+re-rolls+assault (yes assault)+re-rolls is vicious.

Against a shooty opponent just run everything through cover (barring the pathfinders of course) which with fortune is ridiculous, and vs and assault army i can pretty much choose my battles.

//i would agree that there are definitely more efficient and flexible options in the eldar 'dex though.

[Goresmack]

I do find defenders useful. With the most cost effective wepaon- the scatter laser, a min-sized squad makes a cheap, objective holding, fire support unit that is reasonably resilient to enemy fire (more due to being 10 strong than actual resilience- always try to keep them in cover too) and has the short range firepower to deal a decent amount of damage to any deepstrikers/ fast enemy units trying to attack your objective.

I think this is the best use for Guardians, a scatter laser (or any of the heavies) with 10 wounds, that bristles with shurikens withing 12 inches.


Guardians on jetbikes are ideal objective grabbers in late turns.

Generally this is how I roll, I'm a big fan of Jetbikes with walker (6 scatter lasers, oh yeah) and Reaper support.


Always underestimated but the equivalent to 40 bolter rounds+re-rolls+assault (yes assault)+re-rolls is vicious.

I'm sure the irritates the hell out of MEQ players, I will give that a try in my game on Monday.

Thank for all the responses.

-Goresmack

[evilcod]

I think guardian's are viable, granted they are week and they hit on 4's instead of 3's but get them in the rite footing and the rite game set up and they can do some rely nice defence. Like for example I had a full squad of 20 in cover in a building and they were acompanyed by a seer with guide and fortune and stones. buffed them up nicely and then held the line with them. my scatter lasers pounding away re-rolling miss's it was beautifull. then when a vindicator targeted them I had a 4+ cover that I get to re-roll if failed. in the game my guardians killed 5 wolfy terminator's including rockfist. 6 wolfy assault marines including a HQ (wolf lord) and held the objective nicely. in the hole game I lost 1 guardian because of a vindicator but that only lasted 2 turns because of my dragon'st then after that wasnt much threat for them =p.

But as a hole its down to how you utalise them. they are cheep and wurth there points and can take a nice platform weapon


Sorry about my poor spelling and my terminology of wolfy =p dont have a clue on wolf's unit names

[thecactusman17]

I've seen Guardian/Walker based lists that put down over 70 S6+ shots each turn at 24-36 inches. Do not underestimate the power of the humble Guardian en masse. That much 2+ wounding on space marines, even with the occasional flubbed to-hit rolls, will kill a lot of dudes and their light transports really quick.

I think that the way to run these is:

1 Avatar (fearless is critical in this list)
1 Farseer with Guide

5-6 10man Guardian squads with heavy weapons platforms (Scatter laser or Splinter Cannon, depending on point level)

3 full Squads Warwalkers (Dual Cannons or Scatter Lasers)

Fire Dragons or something similar for killing Land Raiders in the Elite and/or Fast Atack slot

And believe me, NOBODY is ready to deal with this many heavy weapons that fire on the move. The amount of firepower is utterly stupid. Draigo Lists are going to have a rough time against this, fer crissake.

[marandamir]

I'd agree that offensively they are quite weak. They are cheap scoring units with a few viable options like a mobile heavy weapon and access to melta weapons. I'd use em in the following way:

1) Distant objective holders. You do exactly what vman said and park a minimum unit with a weapon platform on a rear or far flank objective. They hold the objective and provide heavy weapon support to help soften up distant targets. If they get threatened they tactically retreat and fire the heavy weapon on the move.

Note, that the rules for heavy weapons platforms do not take up space in transports. So a wave serpent held in reserve with star engines can drop this unit onto an objective in the mid to late game if need be.

2) Storm guardian offense. Take storm guardians with melta guns in a serpent. Plow them forward and drop em out to melt tanks and assault the contents. They'll prolly die, but they were cheap.

[TheSustainableCenter]

Yes, storm guardians with their 2 fusion guns in your favorite transport. Spam it like crazy!

[islyfe]

Defender guardians have such crappy stats and shuriiken catapults are a joke, 12" assault weapons on guys who can stand a stiff breeze let alone close quarter combat. The eldar codex as a whole is not competitively viable I'm sorry to say.

[rowansl]

I still very much enjoy playing my eldar, but it does seem to be more and more of an uphill battle.

[Thorn]

I found a good use for them a while ago. I was playing a 500 point game against a friend. His marines ran around a hill and fired at a more-important thing of mine. I proceeded in the next turn to rip him to shreds with shurikens and lasers.

My point is, they are often overlooked by your enemy and can deal a heavy blow if placed right and you roll well ;)

They are very much like every other unit in the eldar codex in that respect.

[Cuddy]

Jetbike guardians are pretty good actually. For 76 points three of them and a cannon can hide behind cover, pop out and shoot and jump back behind to cover every turn. They really make their points up if you keep them alive though. If you have last turn they can capture or contest almost any objective on the board.

[Iaipunk]

Foot guardians also make a good screen.
I know that sounds silly, but a warlock with conceal (or actual cover) will help them stay alive.
And then you can array some D-Cannons behind them with Embolden (to keep them from running off)
This also requires some sort of counter-charge unit in case the enemy gets close, but it is viable.

[chipstar1]

You could have stopped at Eldar*. They need a new codex.

[keithsilva]

guardians are still good, they are just limited in what they can do i also run a 10 man squad with a warlock wth embolden and a missle launcher and they set on a objective, they can either hit tanks or squads, and YES ELDAR NEED A NEW CODEX SOON:confused: