New to Dark Eldar need suggestions

[jksigler]

Ok so I've been playing 40k for years now and have somehow never played with or against dark eldar. I got the new codex and found it interesting so i went out and bought some and i'm looking for some suggestions on what to add, what i wasted money on, etc....

so far i've got

1 duke sliscus conversion

10 Incubi
i made a really cool conversion for either drazhar, or a Klaivex w/demiklaives depending on points/strategy

10 wyches
options undecided

10 kabalite
options undecided

2 raiders

2 venoms

3 reavers
built with one heat lance

razorwing
options undecided

thats what i got so far looking to expand....cant decide between hellions/scourges, ravagers/razorwings/cronos/talos, more reavers maybe.....not sure which direction i want to go but i really dont want to get into the whole haemonculus craze (yes i know the potential) looking more for a wych base with kablite support to take advantage of the duke whom i like alot willing to change it up though looking to build to 2000-2500pts....any suggestions welcome open to all ideas...thanks guys

[SonicPara]

I'm afraid I can't help much with all of the Incubi and everything as I run a Venom/Razorwing raiding party but I can offer some advice for a few things.

Firstly, when running Venoms make sure you always swap the Twin-Linked Splinter Rifle for the Splinter Cannon. With this upgrade the Venom can pump out 12 shots after moving up to 12" and with BS4 and Poisoned(4+) that means you will get 4 wounds on average no matter what the target is. I've used my Venoms to focus down Dante and Sanguinary Guard, Njal and Long Fangs, Death Company, and several other infantry units as the volume of fire is just too much for most units to consistently make saves against.

Secondly, when using Reavers it is six in a unit or none at all. Reavers are incredibly fragile but their upgrade and their speed make them powerful when on the offensive. Since they are so fragile and only have Ld 8, a unit of three will be pushed into a morale check after their first round of receiving fire and can easily fly away. Also, three in a unit means only one weapon upgrade, significantly decreasing their chances of performing their role. Now, there are two primary schools of thought with Reavers and that is taking Heat Lances and slowing down for a risky but powerful shot at a tank or taking Cluster Caltrops and raking infantry the entire game by turbo-boosting 36" up and down the table. The Heat Lances are the least expensive of the two options and the more destructive so I like them the best but they can leave you open to shooting/assault if you get careless about your movement in the previous turn. Cluster Caltrops seem nice and on average will give you 1 or 2 additional hits over the stock Bladevanes but for 20 points each they seem a bit too expensive, at least in my opinion. Regardless of how you decide to equip them, remember that it is 6 to a unit or none at all.

Lastly, the Razorwing Jetfighter is a bit of a strange one. Ravagers are cheaper and better for anti-tank but I decided on Razorwing Jetfighters because I love the model and I'm fascinated by aircraft (hence the loads of Venoms I have too). At 145 points stock the Razorwing is already a bit too expensive so I tend to play mine with just the Flickerfield upgrade. The Splinter Cannon upgrade is fantastic as well but at 10 points it is expendable when compared to the Flickerfield. For the missiles, the stock Monoscythe perform fantastically and really don't need to be replaced but if I have an extra 5 points I will often swap one out for the poisoned/pinning Necrotoxin so that I can fire all four in one salvo to do damage and force a pinning check. The big decision with Razorwing Jetfighters is to go with Dark Lances or Dissintegrators. I'm a fan of the Dark Lances as they give the unit some Flexibility and in a force like mine that is mostly Venoms with no ranged Anti-Tank, the Dark Lances can be handy in a pinch. The Dark Lances also allow the Razorwing Jetfighter to scare the pants off of non-Eternal Warrior Independent Characters as it provides that threat of Instant Death. The Dissintegrators make the Razorwing Jetfighter, which is already essentially anti-infantry, that much more focused and is great as long as you have ranged anti-tank elsewhere in your list. If the Razorwing Jetfighters are your only source of long-range anti-tank, keep the Dark Lances and use good judgement in deciding targets.

[SMC]

Between Hellions and Scourges? Scourges. Hellions are only decent as troop choices and that'd mean taking the Baron.

General suggestions for your army? Buy two Ravagers next. Heavy Support is w important for us. I'm silly though so I usually run a Ravager, a Talos, and a Void Raven.

As the above poster suggested, run six Reavers or none. Three doesn't really cut it.

A lot of internet DE players seem to favor MSU style lists. I think MSU is counter intuitive for a T3 army, but some folks can make it work.

As for the Haemonculus hate...you're really only hurting yourself. Pain Tokens are important. Not to mention that Wracks make good back field troops with T4 and feel no pain right from the start.

[thecactusman17]

Note that you get 3 darklight weapons in each Warriors sprue, and they can ALL be used as a Blaster with miinimal conversion. In addition to the Blaster and Blast pistol, you also have the darklance which if cut off at the start of the barrel, looks like a bulky Blaster. If you want a third blaster, take the blast pistol barrel and model it onto the end of the Shredder, clipping off the filament cannister and existing barrel. Voila! Three blasters for a trueborn squad! A way to run them in your list would be five warriors with a blaster and one 3-4 model trueborn squad with two blasters and a splinter cannon.

Venoms should always take the extra splinter cannon. 6 poisoned shots is OK, 12 is amazing. They will make up for the decreased volume of fire from the smaller warrior units.

Voidraven Bombers are great and worth the increase in points to give them missiles. The extra point of strength plus a small S9 AP2 blast does lots of damage to crowds of terminators and vehicles alike. If you need to reduce points, run the Razorwing stock with darklances, flickerfield and nightshields. You'll do plenty of damage.

Always take lances if the choice is lances or disintigrators, unless you want a Ravager that can kill space marines quick. ravagers with 3 disintigrators are ideal for this, and they are powerful enough to still pose a threat to light armor with 9 shots.

Model all the weapon options onto your wyches in odd combinations. Only a true loser is going to annoy you for having a single hydra gauntlet or razorflail. shardnets and impalers are maybe less easily faked, but you can always place a smooth cape or something on the arm if you prefer.

You don't need to run 6 model reaver squads, but you want at least 6 to make sure you have backups in case something goes wrong. Hellions are for shooting/bladevaning, not assault. Never bother with an agonizer.

The Baron is a great option to take with the Duke. You get a host of amazing special rules to protect a scoring unit of hellions and that oh-so-useful +1 on the die, with no limitation to restrain it to a mere 6. With a unit of drugged-up Hellions in tow he takes Hellions from decent to outstanding in objective games and really good in killpoints. Always take a minimum of 10+ hellions, fewer simply won't survive the match. a 450 point unit of hellions with the baron is one of the few units of that point size that isn't a waste of points.

[Necron2.0]

I have a 2000 point DE army, with which I've been rolling up everyone else I've played. It consists of the Baron, 10 hellions, a succubus with nine wyches in one raider, 10 wyches in another raider, three groups of Kabalite Trueborn (each with the minimum squad size of three, but with two darklances in each squad) and 27 reaver jetbikes (three squadrons of nine, with three heatlances and cluster caltrops in each squadron). All the wyches have haywire grenades and as many as possible (including the succubus) have blaster pistols.

To be honest, for myself I would not waste time with Kabalites as a troop choice. I've found that in general wyches are far more effective, and/or there are better choice combinations that outclass a bulk unit of Kabalites. What I have done is to take my Kabalite figures and turn them into my trueborn artillery support. If you put them in Venoms, then give them blasters. Otherwise, give them Darklances and stick them in terrain. Never use a blaster on a foot-slogging anything. It'd be a complete waste of points because the unit will never survive long enough to get the shot. That's been my experience at least.

I'm actually surprised not to hear of more people using maxed-out squadrons of Reavers. Reavers are flippin' nasty. They can move 42" in a turn and slaughter entire horde units with complete impunity ... or, they can slip out of cover, blow up a tank, and slip back into cover. I have slaughtered nearly an entire BA army with just my bikes, leaving only scraps for the the wyches to clean up (the hellions never got any meat).

[HarlekissofDeath]

How can they move 42 inches in a turn? The most I have heard of is 36 for turbo boosting, They cannot move the additional 6 inches after that, because the rule book say sthat they may not make any other actions that turn. If you know something I don't please let me know because I love my reavers too, but I only run 6 (2 heat lances, and caltrop).
I'm surprised to see that more people don't run a full man squad of wyches. I run a succubus with agonizer, and 15 wyches with a hekatrix with agoniser, 2 hydra gauntlets, and impaler & shardnet. One game I had them chew through 11 death company, and reclisiarch, then they jumped into close combat with a lib dred, and destroy it, and then finish off a 10 man unit of stern guard. They can be a nasty unit to deal with. I run them out of a webway portal.
I also usually run a 12 man squad of hellions, and they are even more BA. 24 poison shots, and then close combat. My helliarch has an agoniser.
I also have either 2 10 man squads of warriors in raiders, or a 10 man squad and a 10 man squad of wracks with a haemonculus. They are pretty good in close combat. I had them take a 10 assault squad in close combat once too. I've only played with them in 2 games.
But my most have is a Talos Pain engine. twin-linked heat lance, extra close combat weapon, and a liquifier gun. He is the best of all worlds. He single handedly killed a warboss, and also a 30 man squad of boys, also he killed 17 storm boys and zagstruk. He is a trooper, and the back bone of my army. Some games the turn he comes out, if he isn't engaged in combat my opponents, will aim everything at him to try to wipe him out. Which sucks when he dies, but is nice that they are aiming at jus thim, instead of my other units.

[Necron2.0]

How can they move 42 inches in a turn? The most I have heard of is 36 for turbo boosting, They cannot move the additional 6 inches after that, because the rule book say sthat they may not make any other actions that turn.

On page 53, in the inset for jet bikes, it says that all Eldar jetbikes can move 6" in the assault phase, whether they assault or not. Now, I know you're going to say that is a voluntary action and so is prohibited by the turbo-boost rule, and (for the record) that would be my interpretation as well. However, I've heard it argued that the rules for Eldar jetbikes, stating that they can move in the assault phase, is a specific named exception to this rule. Since this argument was in a local tournament, and the argument carried the day, the official interpretation of the rules in my area has been that Eldar jetbikes can both turbo-boost and then move an additional 6" in the assault phase. Barring an official FAQ, I cannot convince anyone in my local area otherwise.

[SonicPara]

@Necron2.0: While maxed Reaver squads prove more effective at shooting/bladevanes they also become nearly impossible to hide. The agility of Reavers allows them to avoid enemy shooting altogether and having large squads often sacrifices this asset.

[Necron2.0]

"BE AGGRESSIVE! B. E. AGGRESSIVE!" :)

In any game where I'm playing DE, I start with the assumption that on turn one I'll be losing one raider and probably five or six bikes. Most likely all my heat lances and cluster caltrop units will still be in play, however, as will all my dark lances and all my Wyches (although some will probably be walking). By the end of turn two, most of my opponents armor will be smoking ruins, and one unit of wyches will be raping something. For the other wyches, the hellions will be providing meat shield duty as they truck it across the board. By turn three my bike units will down to just three to maybe four models each (consisting of the heater lancers / caltrop boys). That's when I worry about hiding. In any unit of nine bikes, six of them are just there to die in as messy of a means as possible. If they don't, and they can actually do some damage, that's gravy.

[thecactusman17]

On page 53, in the inset for jet bikes, it says that all Eldar jetbikes can move 6" in the assault phase, whether they assault or not. Now, I know you're going to say that is a voluntary action and so is prohibited by the turbo-boost rule, and (for the record) that would be my interpretation as well. However, I've heard it argued that the rules for Eldar jetbikes, stating that they can move in the assault phase, is a specific named exception to this rule. Since this argument was in a local tournament, and the argument carried the day, the official interpretation of the rules in my area has been that Eldar jetbikes can both turbo-boost and then move an additional 6" in the assault phase. Barring an official FAQ, I cannot convince anyone in my local area otherwise.



Actually, it says that thay may move in the assault phase instead of assaulting. That clearly indicates that it is a voluntary action. I realize that your group says otherwise and that's fine, but for a guy without prior Eldar Bike experience it's a pretty critical distinction.

[Xas]

Knowing (=perfect guessing skill) ranges, manipulating and abusing them with your speed is key.

Learn, live and breathe that mantra day in and out and adapt it to your list.


Anything that cannot at least move 24" will be death weight and basically lost the moment your plan unfolds.
So mounth everything in transports.


If you think a bit of the speed debate you'll realice which models can be a treat to you most likely: vehicles.
therefore you should allways favour anti-tank over anti-infantry weapons so you can neutralice those treats asap.

so for you the next purchase should be 2 ravagers /w lances!