1850 Grey Knights

[DarkLink]

So here's a list I've been playing around with.

Grand Master 210
Rad/Psykotroke/Blind Grenades

Coteaz 100

6 Paladins 400
Psycannon/Hammer, Psycannon/Halberd, Bolter/Halberd, Bolter/MC Halberd, Bolter/Hammer, Bolter/B. Banner

2x
10 GKSS 270
Hammer, 2 Psycannons, Rhino

2x
4 Henchmen 96
3 Meltaguns, Razorback, Psybolt ammo

3x
Dreadnoughts 135
2 TL Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo

Total: 1847

Throw on searchlights to three vehicles brings me up to 1850.



I'm still debating Librarian vs Grand Master, but I think the GM benefits this type of list a bit more. The Librarian really only brings Shrouding and a Psychic Hood (the other psychic powers are useful, but ultimately not overly important most of the time), while the GM has grenades to screw over anything that dares assault them, Psychic Communion and the Grand Strategy. Plus the GM can take more wounds than the Librarian can. Coteaz also takes care of Sanctuary, plus has all his crazy little rules that are awesome for tournaments.

Ultimately, Shrouding is awesome, as are psychic hoods, but I think that as long as you have some Dreadnoughts for the Aegis then a Grand Master and Coteaz is normally the way to go.


As for the rest of the list, Paladins and GKSS can pour out a lot of wounds in shooting, Acolytes can score and hide or pop vehicles if they get the chance (and save me from Land Raiders), and Psyrifle Dreads just do their thing.

Incidentally, after playing a while I've decided that the BBanner is awesome. On small Terminator squads, it probably isn't worth it because it's much easier to kill off individual models so your banner might not live to see combat, but otherwise the extra attacks and the free force weapon power is worth it. It especially saves you against 'nidz with Shadow in the Warp. It sucks to get stuck in with monstrous creatures you can't force weapon at I6 because you can't pass a psychic test.

I should also fit a couple Skulls in there somewhere. I'll figure that out at some point.

Thoughts?

[Tynskel]

interesting. The only thing I worry about is that the Henchmen have to get out to fire. Chimeras seem like a better choice. If they get out, it doesn't take much to kill 4 guys in 5+ armor.

Overall, though, the list seems too "point n' click" to me. But, I like to play with a different unit each.

[DarkLink]

The henchmen are either cheap screening or cheap scoring, and give me much needed melta. They're such a small threat that my opponent rarely wastes time shooting at them unless they are in melta range, and ironically I've had games where they were my only untouched units. They're not exactly game winners normally, but having a cheap scoring vehicle with a couple of meltas in it gives me options that GKs normally lack. I've had fairly good luck with them.

To elaborate a bit, I tend to play GKs as a very cohesive force. I bring most of my army against a part of my opponent's, and roll up his lines. Having a couple of wimpy scoring units lets me grab objectives far away without compromising my firepower. Or I can use their vehicles to screen my GKs and if my opponent wastes firepower on them, fine. And they're one of the only sources of melta in the GK codex. All in all, if I'm taking Coteaz I might as well take a pair of acolyte squads for cheap.

I've taken them in razorbacks so far simply so that they can contribute a bit of extra firepower at all times. Jumping out to melta something is a bit of a last resort anyways, but downgrading to Rhinos to save a few points is something for me to consider.




The psyrifle dreads are very point and click, they're just so good it's hard not to take them. In my experience, most any problem GKs can face is resolved by either a) shoot it with psycannons, b) shoot it with psyrifle dreads, or c)shoot it with storm bolters then assault it.




As for the GKs at the core of the list, Terminators/Paladins backed up by some HQs are a solid rock. Paladins lose some attacks over their equivalent Terminator unit, but I couldn't fit 10 Terminators into this list and I actually have more wounds. The Paladins are kinda like an anvil unit, but I use the GKSS to break up my opponent's attempts to hit it with enough force to take it out. Or, alternatively, I throw the Paladins into the midfield and let them get shot up, and clean up my opponent with the GKSS. There's a lot of tricks to playing a setup like this, and while it's pretty straightforward to play reasonably well it's very tricky to make it work while covering the weaknesses of the units. GKSS are weak in combat, Paladins are a huge walking target, and you have to keep weaknesses like that in mind and prevent your opponent from taking advantage of them. That's where the skill in this list comes in.


The general setup of a couple of GKSS squads paired with a solid unit of Terminators backed up by the appropriate HQs has worked extremely well for me. The main disadvantages are the lack of melta (covered by the acolytes), the limited fire support (covered by the psyrifle dreads) and the relative difficulty of dispersing my army to grab objectives (again covered by acolytes).

[bknesal]

This army sounds really great. If you want to fit some skulls in there, I would suggest removing a pysfleman and making the remaining two venerable. Due the the ven dreads' added survivability, they statistically fire at least as many shots down-field as 3 would have by the end of the game. This also saves you 15 points: just enough for 3 skulls.

[DarkLink]

That is always something to consider, as two vens compared to three dreads is roughly equivalent points. Vens are somewhat more durable, while dreads have more firepower. Personally, I prefer a strong offense to a good defense, but vens are rock hard so its a bit of a toss up.

I can also skim some points off the acolytes to get a pair of skulls. I can either drop the 4th acolyte in each squad, or downgrade to rhinos. The rest of my army is about as efficient as I can get, so I can't really drop points off the Grey Knights.


Either way, skulls are very useful, even if I don't have many blasts. I don't deepstrike often, but being able to block infiltrators and scouts is game changing against some armies.




So as I see it, it comes down to either trading out the dreadnoughts, dropping the 4th acolyte in each squad, or downgrading a razorback to a rhino.

I think I prefer the 3 dreads to 2 vens, since the extra firepower protects not only the dreads themselves from return fire but also the rest of my army. IG can't drop templates on me if I stun/kill three vehicles a turn from across the board.

So I think it comes down to the acolyte squads. I don't want to drop the bodies, because they're already absurdly fragile. I've found that 5 man squads are just barely tough enough to survive their vehicle blowing up, which gives them a chance to run away and hide on an objective. Which leaves me with the rhino/razorbacks. Downgrading to Rhinos buys me a pair of skulls, plus I can fit a 5th acolyte in each squad.

That would leave my list at this:

Grand Master 220
Rad/Psykotroke/Blind Grenades, 2 Skulls

Coteaz 100

6 Paladins 400
Psycannon/Hammer, Psycannon/Halberd, Bolter/Halberd, Bolter/MC Halberd, Bolter/Hammer, Bolter/B. Banner

2x
10 GKSS 271
Hammer, 2 Psycannons, Rhino, Searchlight

2x
5 Henchmen 91
3 Meltaguns, Rhino, Searchlight

3x
Dreadnoughts 135
2 TL Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo

Total: 1849

[bknesal]

I typically like to play more defensively, but given that you don't, keeping the 3 dreads would seem like the best way to go. I'm glad you didn't drop any bodies as well, for obvious reasons. Given that your list now has skulls, will you typically be DS the Paladins? If not, what is your strategy for getting them downfield? As the S8-AP2 weaponry at 1850 points might be overwhelming against some other lists.

EDIT: I also like vens because they have enough survivability to advance forward with the army if necessary.

[Denied]

I think you best option to open up at least 10 points for two Skulls, is to downgrade both Razors to Rhinos. Honestly I think the Rhinos are farm more worth it anyways. You get the repair if immobilized on a 6 and you can fire two meltas out of the top hatch if by chance a vehicle gets close enough to you.


Overall I like the list, I have played with a similar variant where I had both Libby and GM with a 7 man terminator squad and more SS and no Henchmen.


Lately though I have been playing a purifier build with marginally good results, I6 force weapons are amazing.Add in the extra attack and fearless and it is a force to be reckoned with. I have thrown a squad of purifiers (2 psycannons, 1 Hammer, 7 halbreds) at squads of terminators and actually done some major damage. If you get the charge that's 21 I6 force weapon swings at str 5 (hammerhand) that they can only take invo or FnP saves on. On a good day I can wipe a squad on a bad day I leave one or two guys standing.

Mostly I have only used the purifiers for low point builds 1500 and lower (we do a 1000pt per player 2v2 tourney every other month at my local store). I have been toying with the idea of using them in a full 2K build where I have a Libby or GM ... probably GM for grenades rolling with a group in like a StormRaven. I mean can you imagine that assaulting you? Two hammerhands so they jump up to str6 give the GM a sword for the 3+ CC invu to take wounds from power/ force weapons. Rad grenades on the assault so you reduce the attacked units toughness. Unload from a StormRaven and they can still assault in the same turn... oh man the pain they could bring.... okay I just got myself excited I need to go write up this list now.

[Denied]

Okay you inspired me DarkLink..... well not directly but this thread did ... sort of >_> ANYWAYS, Check out what I dun and did :-P

HQ:

Grey Knight Grand Master: 2x Servo Skulls, NFS, psychotroke, rad, blind,MC psycannon 270pts

Troop:

3x10man Strike Squad: 2xPsycannons, 7x NFS ,Hammer; Rhino 810pts

10man Purifers: 9x Halbreds , 1xMC Halbred 265pts

Fast Attack:
StormRaven Gunship: TL Multi-Melta, TL Lascannon 205pts

Heavy Support:

2x Dreadnought: 2x Twin-linked Autocannon’s, Psybolt Ammo 270pts

1x5man Purgation squad: 1x NFS, 4xpsycannons 180pts

Total:
2000


So, you have a count of 11 psycannons (one Master Crafted, 4 with astral aim), 8 TL str8 Autocannon shots, one TL Multi-melta, one TL BS4 Lascannon, a Grand Master for Grand Strategy and grenades. You load the Grand Master with the 10 Purifiers into the StormRaven and use them as a fast strike squad. The Purgation squad can either attempt to outflank or move onto the board and hunker down in a bunker and just Astral Aim like a boss. I am liking this list actually I really want to give it a try now. I mean Purifiers with two hammerhands and grenades.... that's just sexy I6 halbreds go go!


I need to go playtest this like ASAP.