Imperial Guard foot list; does it work?

[Mr. Pickles]

First off, any GOOD criticism with real application is very appreciated. I have been playing 40k for years, but I stopped for a while and I am getting back into it now. The Idea is to go against the meta by not having any armor values, but what are the downfalls?

CCS: Creed, camo cloaks, medi-pack, standard, vox, Astropath, x2 bodyguard, and OoF-300
Lord Commissar: camo cloak and PF-95

PBS x10-110
PBS x10-110
Storm Troopers x10, x2 Meltas-185

Vet Squad: x3 Plasma, vox, Carapace-150

PCS: x3 plasma, vox-80
(x2) Infantry Squad: Melta, ML, vox-160
(x2) Infantry Squad: Melta, ML-150
HWS x3 ML-90
SWS x3 flamer-50

PCS: x3 Plasma, vox-80
(x2) Infantry Squad: Sniper, ML, vox-150
(x2) Infantry Squad: Sniper, ML-140

That comes out to 1850 points with 141 bases. The idea is to have 20 man blobs to effectively issue orders and abuse Creed's scouting. What holes do I have in the list, and how do I overcome them? What Lists will I have trouble with?

[Commander Vimes]

Foot Guard lists can work, but yours is fielding a lot of units that are difficult at best to use on foot. Expensive units like the psykers, command squads, and the storm troopers, are going to be easy targets for enemy ranged anti-infantry. Sure you'll be easily able to give them a cover save with intervening models, but a bunch of frag missiles or small arms fire won't have any trouble knocking out those troops first. The plasma units will be ineffective because plasma really needs to rapid fire to be worthwhile, and pretty much any army out there can outmaneuver pure foot Guard. Same thing with the flamer units; they have no means of getting into position other than the enemy charging straight at them.

A strong foot Guard army relies on combined squad of Guardsmen with Commissars to absorb and grind down attackers. Take 30 Guardsmen with Power weapon Sergeants and a Commissar and see just how much they can kill. Fill up the combined squads with Autocannons for knocking out transports the first few turns. Missile Launchers are just mediocre and overpriced for the Guard. Autocannons pop vehicles and infantry better for less. Lascannons are expensive, but I think necessary for pure foot Guard as the only way to threaten vehicles from across the board.

For mobility, Al'Rahem gives you a way to get across the board with a bunch of scoring bodies.

Also, Straken is simply amazing for Foot Guard. A good blob of 3 squads + Commissar will have 16 Str4 power weapon attacks and 54 normal Str. 4 attacks when it charges. That will mess up most units; and if it doesn't it will take a very long time to kill all those bodies, meanwhile those power weapons will be getting a lot of swings. Counter Attack is also amazing, because more often than not you're being charged and that extra attack is gold.

I think the best way to field a pure foot Guard list is with Straken's command squad with some melta for counter attacking, 3 or so 30 man power weapon blobs (1 with Al'Rahem and the others with Autocannons for long range), 2 20 man screening squads, with commissars and autocannons, but not power wearpons to take the initial attack, and heavy weapons squads to boost long range fire.

Pure Foot Guard off the top of my head

CCS w/ Straken, 3 Meltas, Medic, Bodyguard, Astropath, Camo-Cloaks
270

Platoon Command Sqaud w/ Autocannon
40
Blob w/ 3 Squads w/ meltagun, Autocannon, Power Weapon and 1 Commissar w/ Power weapon
285
Blob w/ 2 Squads w/ flamer, Autocannon, Commissar
165
3x Lascannon HWT
3x Lascannon HWT

Platoon Command Sqaud w/ Autocannon
40
Blob w/ 3 Squads w/ meltagun, Autocannon, Power Weapon and 1 Commissar w/ Power weapon
285
Blob w/ 2 Squads w/ flamer, Autocannon, Commissar
165

Platoon CCS w/ Al'Rahem 3 meltas, flamer
135
Blob w/ 3 Squads w/ meltagun, Power Weapon and 1 Commissar w/ Power Weapon
255

1850

Deploy in layers with the smaller screening blobs in front, power weapons behind to counter charge, and Straken in the center buffing everyone. Al'Rahem outflanks to take objectivs You've got 6 lascannons, 12 Autocannons, and loads of lasguns if anyone wants to stand off against you. There's pretty much no army in the game that can kill that many guardsmen in cover at range, and you have few soft targets. They'll have to come to you, and you've got the bodies to grind down almost anything. The solution to any problem is throwing Guardsmen at it until it goes away or the game ends.

[ankhcitizen]

Psyker battle squads can be devastating in large numbers BUT only when transported in chimeras! if they're not in a chimera then don't bother. Deep strike storm troopers (Air bourne assault special operations) otherwise his grace Commander Vimes has a killer suggestion list, don't have to go with all of it but definetly take advantage of the Guard's handy special characters.
I'm partial to Marbo and Yarrick myself but there's a good range to choose from and remember the idea of the imperial guard is overkill, they have 50 models, you bring 200, they bring a couple of devilfish or rhinos you have squadrons of valkyries, they have a land raider you bring 9 leman russ (insert variant OTHER than punisher here).

As for what lists will trouble you...dark eldar wyches are a pain in the a** do not let them close with you whatever happens bring them down.

[Mr. Pickles]

Thank you for your response! I thought it was very informative. I do have some model restrictions, but I would like to lean more towards a basic infantry stile. It will take me a while to paint that many Guardsman, so I will do what I can.

I agree with you on the fact of Lascannons and Autocannons, and I was thinking about making that vary change, but I am probably going to put the Lascannons in the line and have Autocannon line squads and heavy weapon squads. This way the most expensive weapons are not nuked turn one by instant death Multi-Lasers/Assault-cannons/Psi-cannons. The plasma might stay, but in the line squads and with less of it.

I used to agree with you on the point of the Commissars, but about a third of the time I would be locked in close combat when I would rather them run (i.e. TH/SS terminators), so that is what the Lord Commissar is there for. With the Lord Commissar I can choose to run by not having him in the squad most likely to be charged by things I would rather shoot. This also saves points and lets my heavy weapons receive orders well. On the outflanking blobs there would be Commissars though.

On the subject of Elites, I know the Troopers are pricey, so the plan is to lower the count to five and deep strike them to kill a Lemon Russ or other armored targets. This would also force my opponent to deal with them. The PBS are there for what else but a 36" large blast that can instant death infantry and make them run? If 36" is not optimal range please specify why. The cost of the two PBS squads is a little less than three line squads, so are they too expensive for what they do, and why do you think that?

My thoughts on the special characters are that it is really a preference between Straken plus Al'Rahem and Creed. The reason I like Creed is because of his 24" order range,four orders (twice as many as Straken) Scouts, and furious charge/fearless order. Straken and Al'Rahem can do this and have counter charge, but my preference are the orders. In the end, though, I will end up sending a blob of thirty or more guardsmen outflanking the opponent.

If I am wrong on any of these points please tell me why, and thanks for any posts on this issue.

[Mr. Pickles]

Why are PBS so bad out of a Chimera?

[ankhcitizen]

No you're not wrong, Creed and/or Straken are good choices for bolstering guard and either seem to fit your force, but if you're going to have a commissar I'd go with the big gun ol' one eye Yarrick but thats personal preference, Psyker battle squads are too vulnerable without some form of transport be it chimera or valkyrie, platoon line guardsmen no worries but the psykers are an elites choice and not as expendable, you want to deliver that 36'' painful blast, without a transport its a risk, though you could do some screening but a transport seems the safest bet. Like Commander Vimes mentioned your opponent will recognise the threat they pose and will target them.
A 5 man storm trooper squad is a good idea, frees up points and as long a you max the meltas you're good. Storm troopers never make to end of the game anyway.

I understand you want to avoid anything with armour values, and go with a pure foot slogger force, just understand those psykers have a bulls eye on them!

Personally they are bit expensive but compared to say rogue psyker from the grey knights codex they are worth the points!

[Mr. Pickles]

Thank you for the explanation. I knew that the PBS would become a fire magnet, so I am going to drop a squad and use the other for diversionary tactics. I have the models, so I really would like to see what they can do. I also dropped the flamer squad and vets, which freed up enough points to make the 30 man power blob and an extra Autocannon HWS.


CCS: Creed,x1 Melta, camo cloaks, medi-pack, standard, vox, Astropath, x2 bodyguard, and OoF-310
Lord Commissar: camo cloak, carapace, PF-105

PBS x10-110
Storm Troopers x5, x2 Meltas-105

PCS: Sniper, Autocannon, vox-50
(x2) Infantry Squad: Sniper, AC, vox-140
(x2) Infantry Squad: Sniper, AC-130
HWS x3 AC-75
HWS x3 AC-75

PCS: Plasma, Lascannon, vox-70
(x2) Infantry Squad: Plasma, LC, vox-180
(x2) Infantry Squad: Plasma, LC-170

PCS: x3 Melta, vox-65
(x2) Infantry Squad: Melta, power weapon-140
Infantry Squad: Melta, PW, Commissar w/PW, vox-125

Total-1850

This has about the same amount of bodies, but more firepower and punch to it. I know this will not win any grand tournaments, but I want it to be competitive enough to win locally. Is there any way I can min-max the list so that I can squeeze anything good in? Any other advice would be much appreciated, thanks.

[ankhcitizen]

maybe pull out the bodyguards and plasma pistol arm the platoon commanders? I'm grasping here..it looks fairly tight, body guards are alright though Creed probably might not need them. you have the fire power to deal with Tau at range, keep dark eldar at bay, enough anti tank to handle armoured lists (unless they go nuts), you can bust transports at will, your army might get chewed by deep striking termies...no you have officer of the fleet, your massed guardsmen should deal with the greenskins...its no uber cheesy list, however thats a very good thing. I'd say its competitive and looks like fun. Its no cc giant but it can handle itself and guard isn't supposed to be in anycase...

I might have missed something but your list looks good and I hope you have fun playing it!

[Commander Vimes]

I find Straken to be far better than Creed, having fielded both in infantry heavy Guard lists. For 5 more points you give all your blobs counter attack, which is helpful in almost every game I've played. Straken gives furious charge without giving fearless. The blobs have ld.9 with a reroll, that's a 3% chance of failure. Even charging you'll likely lose combat, and fearless will make you take more wounds. Plus Straken hits like a demon prince; he's great for finishing off weakened monstrous creatures or enemy squads.

Commissars let you end combat when you want to. If you want break on a given turn, allocate a wound, power weapon if available, to the commissar and the rest of the troops will flee without him giving stubborn. Commissars give you the choice of holding or retreating. The Lord Commissar can be picked out in close combat, and dies easily with T3, making him much less reliable. Though blobs with Stealth from his cloak are fun.

Moving the Lascannons into combined infantry squads is a good idea.

I think the deep striking melta storm troopers fit well in an all foot list. They're good way of delivering melta to targets across the board, without using vehicles. It might even be good to find points for a second squad.

But play-testing is really the best way to find what works. I spent 3 months and more than a dozen games trying to make Rough Riders work before scrapping them. I also initially ignored Griffons, and now I field two in every list up to 2k.

[Mr. Pickles]

I think you are right 100% on Straken, but . . . to outflank you also have to take Al'Rahem. This is a total of 75 points more than Creed, and if you use Al'Rahem you MUST outflank his whole platoon! I may want the option of just holding in reserve or using them as screening units.

As to the Commissars, I did not think of it that way (it has been to long between games), although I did read the FAQ and saw the camo cloak trick. The lord Commissar costs 70 points base while four Commissars would cost 140 points base. I will try your strategy at some point though.

All in all, I saved 215 points this way. I think I like the versatility of Creed, but I will not knock your ideas until I try them. Thanks for the input.

[Lord Azaghul]

I think you are right 100% on Straken, but . . . to outflank you also have to take Al'Rahem. This is a total of 75 points more than Creed, and if you use Al'Rahem you MUST outflank his whole platoon! I may want the option of just holding in reserve or using them as screening units.

As to the Commissars, I did not think of it that way (it has been to long between games), although I did read the FAQ and saw the camo cloak trick. The lord Commissar costs 70 points base while four Commissars would cost 140 points base. I will try your strategy at some point though.

All in all, I saved 215 points this way. I think I like the versatility of Creed, but I will not knock your ideas until I try them. Thanks for the input.

If you're going to use a special character - I think its straken over creed. 4 orders is nice, his range is impressive, but he's not too durable - one pie plate and he's done.

IF you want an outflanking unit - look at Harker and a vet squad. It will be far more effective then one little platoon squad....plus harker give his unit stealth.

Personally I prefer to run 2 normal CCS, each with 2 especial weapons, and an advisor that suits - helps avoid that whole - eggs in one basket thing.

I think your biggest stuggle is getting MORE bodies on the table...and don't blob everything. MSU guard can work very well.

[Mr. Pickles]

If you're going to use a special character - I think its straken over creed. 4 orders is nice, his range is impressive, but he's not too durable - one pie plate and he's done.

IF you want an outflanking unit - look at Harker and a vet squad. It will be far more effective then one little platoon squad....plus harker give his unit stealth.

Personally I prefer to run 2 normal CCS, each with 2 especial weapons, and an advisor that suits - helps avoid that whole - eggs in one basket thing.

I think your biggest stuggle is getting MORE bodies on the table...and don't blob everything. MSU guard can work very well.

Straken also dies to one pie plate.

One little platoon squad? It would be a 30 man power blob, if I wanted, which could also have stealth (Lord Commissar), but the real reason is that the power blob can take a heavy flamer hit and survive while pushing troops off an objective.

I see your point for the multiple CCS, and have tried it, but I like the furious charge, scouting, and saving points. Outflanking is a must for any foot Guard.

The line blobs are there for firepower survivability, although I did intend to split them in different ways for each situation.

This leads me to another question that is a bit off topic. Who is better in a foot list, Creed or Straken plus friends (he has to have something for outflanking)? I already have a couple of views, but I think that this would make a good debate, so please post pros and cons for each.

[Lord Azaghul]

One little platoon squad? It would be a 30 man power blob, if I wanted, which could also have stealth (Lord Commissar), but the real reason is that the power blob can take a heavy flamer hit and survive while pushing troops off an objective.

This leads me to another question that is a bit off topic. Who is better in a foot list, Creed or Straken plus friends (he has to have something for outflanking)? I already have a couple of views, but I think that this would make a good debate, so please post pros and cons for each.


To go just a little but off topic: If you want outflankers, several units of penal legion are also effective – no matter what you roll. 80pts of stubborn scoreing unit, that CAN hurt most infantry units. Kept in mind that they are always stubborn.

I know you’re going foot – but you may want to consider a few squaded sentinals, normals ones, in squads of 2. I really like 1 w/hf 1 w/ multilaser, and if I have the points a HK. This makes a fantastic support unit that can go after light vehicles, horded infantry, and tie stuff up for a turn or two – then explode!

I personally prefer many small units that can intersupport each other, over the power blob – my guard don’t need to be surivivable – they just need to keep coming :P Not to mention I more squads means for things you get to do and more targets for you opponent to deciede between!

Straken vs Creed. I think I perfer staken in this one (your list) – espeically if you’re going infantry heavy – straken means you can handle CC a bit better (not much, just a bit) while creed is great for laying out orders to squads outside of the normal range.

My plays style is neither! (I play infantry heavy with vehicle support) As I find them both a little pricey.