You may want to quit after seeing this.

[w7west]

I am a de player, but last night got a good look at the grey knights codex. I noticed coteaz lets me take henchmen as troop. I also noticed weaponsmiths.

1500:

HQ:

Coteaz

Inquisitor with 3 servo skull and plasma pistol for cool model.

Troop:

5 weaponsmith
-chimera (heavy bolter, multilaser)

5 weaponsmith
-chimera (heavy bolter, multilaser)

5 weaponsmith
-chimera (heavy bolter, multilaser)

5 weaponsmith
-chimera (heavy bolter, multilaser)

5 weaponsmith
-chimera (heavy bolter, multilaser)

4 weaponsmith
-chimera (heavy bolter, multilaser)


So there is 29 lascannon / multimelta / heavy flamers for you to play with each turn, all mounted, all scoring.

I would probably refuse to play this army but I would love to play this against mech guard to give them a taste of what playing against god mode is like.

Enjoy c: Let the space monkey domination begin.

[Demonus]

problems are:

if you move you can only shoot the flamers
if you dont move, you will be charged by cc armies and wiped out

i could see drop pods popping the chimera with meltas, surviviing a round of las/melta fire, and then charging the monkies in hand to hand. also daemon armies with invulnerable saves. necron hordes with rez orbs to wbb the cannon/mm shots.

IG ordinance lists hiding in cover and launching barrages down on your chimeras.

[w7west]

problems are:

if you move you can only shoot the flamers
if you dont move, you will be charged by cc armies and wiped out

i could see drop pods popping the chimera with meltas, surviviing a round of las/melta fire, and then charging the monkies in hand to hand. also daemon armies with invulnerable saves. necron hordes with rez orbs to wbb the cannon/mm shots.

IG ordinance lists hiding in cover and launching barrages down on your chimeras.

Let us be clear, each squad can choose which weapon they would like to fire that turn from the following:

Lascannon, Multimelta, Heavy flamer.

Deepstrike within 12 of coteaz and your drop pod will be emptied. Servo skulls make sure nobody is deepstriking near the others.

If anything comes close enough to charge I do have 29 heavy flamers. 29 Heavy flamers.

Sit back? I shoot 29 lascannons, 6 multilaser, 6 heavy bolter at u.

Rush me with vehicles? 29 multimelta

Rush me with infantry? 29 heavy flamer + coteaz hammasmash!

[Xenith]

Assuming BS4 on the apes, you need 72 lascannons to down one falcon with holofields going flat out. Thats 3 turns of your entire army's shooting to bring down a single one.

It also takes 27 BS4 lascannons to bring down a single land raider, without a cover save.

Your list is shooty, yes, but in an objective game, or against a good opponent, it will fold.

[w7west]

Assuming BS4 on the apes, you need 72 lascannons to down one falcon with holofields going flat out. Thats 3 turns of your entire army's shooting to bring down a single one.

It also takes 27 BS4 lascannons to bring down a single land raider, without a cover save.

Your list is shooty, yes, but in an objective game, or against a good opponent, it will fold.

Not even going to comment on problems with antitank. They are only bs 3 so it would be 36ish to take down a land raider in the open. Barely more than one turn of shooting.

What would the issue be in objective games? Everything is mounted in av 12 and can easily clear infantry with heavy flamers. 6 chimeras with heavy bolter / multilaser can grind down infantry from 36.

[Demonus]

coteaz unit gets 5 shots at my drop pod that is within 12 inches of him right? assuming you wreck the drop pod, I now have possibly 10 stern guard with combi meltas and a cover save to deal with his chimera.

not to mention the drop pods that land 13 inches away with multi melta dreadnoughts that he cannot shoot down.

im sure the monkey list might work if you turtle in the corner of your board, but chances are, it wont.

3 monoliths lobbing their str 9 ordinance at you grouped up, ignoring your multlasers, laughing at your multimeltas, and fearing only you rolling double sixes on your lascannons, while my horde of necon warriors glance you to death (remember, if your vehicle is shaken, your monkeys cant shoot unless they get out...and if they get out, they cant shoot heavy weapons...)

[w7west]

3 monoliths at 1500? what happens when all 3 are crippled from the first turn or when the 20 warriors get lit up by 29 lascannon 6 multilaser 6 heavy bolter for a few turns?

What happens when the podding squad meets the 5 other chimeras full of heavy flamers? Or the dread meets the other 5 chimeras full of multimelta?

[BrokenWing]

Eh, forget it, original rant not worth it.

[TheRise]

Whyches, Bloodbrides and Incubi in raiders come assault your little monek ***! And you are little pieces of Anne Robinsons hair.

[w7west]

Oh my gosh, you're the first person ever in the history of the new codex to notice Coteaz and henchmen/monkey spam! It's totally broken and no one can ever ever beat it for ever because you have a bunch of lascannons! Congrats, you win 40k!

Haha pretty much sums this up.

Feels good man

[Chexmix282]

It's a decent list, but 6 Chimeras and 30 infantry models is hardly survivable, especially against other shooty armies (properly built IG and SW, for example). I guess it just depends on who goes first in that kind of match up.

It's definitely a rock-paper-scissors list... It will do very well against some lists and lose horribly to others.

[wittdooley]

I thought the pretty much agreed upon thought was that 3 monkies was the sweet spot, so that you don't get stuck in the '6 roll loop.'

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

coteaz unit gets 5 shots at my drop pod that is within 12 inches of him right? assuming you wreck the drop pod, I now have possibly 10 stern guard with combi meltas and a cover save to deal with his chimera.

not to mention the drop pods that land 13 inches away with multi melta dreadnoughts that he cannot shoot down.

im sure the monkey list might work if you turtle in the corner of your board, but chances are, it wont.

3 monoliths lobbing their str 9 ordinance at you grouped up, ignoring your multlasers, laughing at your multimeltas, and fearing only you rolling double sixes on your lascannons, while my horde of necon warriors glance you to death (remember, if your vehicle is shaken, your monkeys cant shoot unless they get out...and if they get out, they cant shoot heavy weapons...)

FAQ states he directs shooting at the Drop pod and the people inside (cant remember if this is a second roung of shooting, or just part of a single round)

[w7west]

I thought the pretty much agreed upon thought was that 3 monkies was the sweet spot, so that you don't get stuck in the '6 roll loop.'

I thought after you get a 6 the next two rolls ignore 1's and 6's and don't get a bonus added anymore for extra monkeys.

I have only seen the codex once though so there is a good chance I am wrong about that.

[house_cawdor]

MEQ in cover would have no problem with this list

[C.of.N.finity]

Yeah, the rules nor faq say anything about ignoring 1's and 6's, it's designed to prevent what your intending. Also, corteaz's power only affects units DS within 12" of him, not every model on the board. And Servoskulls don't hinder an enemies deep strike at all, just help yours. In fact, an enemy unit arriving by deep strike within 6" of a servoskull will destroy it.

Your list is good only in theory, it would break apart on the table against a competent player.

[DarkLink]

I can't believe someone actually thought that was a good list.

First off, the list is completely immobile. You can only pivot if you want to shoot the guys inside (excluding their heavy flamer). The only "scary" thing this list can do is drive-by flamer someone, but if your opponent leaves enough of your guys alive to let you do that multiple times they deserve to lose.

Second off, 29 lascannons is not scary. Between BS3 and 4+ cover, you're not doing very much damage against either vehicles or infantry.

Any good army will have enough firepower to destroy 6 Chimeras in a couple of turns. Then you have 30 guys with 5+ armor. They won't last long.

And Coteaz isn't helping this list much, either. Coteaz is awesome, but just because he can shoot deepstrikers doesn't help anything. Your opponent just won't deepstrike within 12" of Coteaz. He'll still be able to hit most of your army, since it's really hard to fit 6 Chimeras in a 12" circle and still have room to target your opponent. They'll just deepstrike where coteaz isn't.

And if you turtle in a corner to maximize Coteaz's coverage, then you'll be stuck in that corner for the rest of the game due to your immobility. In objective games you will pray for a tie, and in killpoints you'll probably still do poorly because of how fragile your list is.



You don't have the firepower to outshoot your opponent, you don't have the mobility to pick your fights, and you don't have the durability to outlast your opponent.

[Thornblood]

Didnt they fix the monkey spam thing with the FAQ? So that if you have multiple monkeys it works against you? Or did I read that wrong?

[C.of.N.finity]

Didnt they fix the monkey spam thing with the FAQ? So that if you have multiple monkeys it works against you? Or did I read that wrong?

They didn't so much 'fix' it as it as never broken, they just brought it to everyones attention with the FAQ.

[thecactusman17]

I looked into this, and for what it's worth I think that monkeyspam could be fun, but you can't JUST do monkeyspam. You have to back your monkeys with units that can actually deal with the rest of your opponent's army.

Here's an alternative:

Coteaz

4 Weaponsmiths, 8 Warriors w/ Stormbolters in a Chimera (251 points)

4 Weaponsmiths, 8 Warriors w/ Stormbolters in a Chimera (251 points)

4 Weaponsmiths, 8 Warriors w/ Stormbolters in a Chimera (251 points)

4 Weaponsmiths, 8 Warriors w/ Stormbolters in a Chimera (251 points)

4 Death Cult Assassins, 4 Crusaders, Techmarine (psychotroke grenades, Nemesis Halberd), Land Raider Redeemer (Psybolt Ammo) 395

Coteaz goes into the Land raider. You now have 16 Jokaero, backed by stormbolters and ablative wounds, and lead by a close combat monster (DCAs and TM will attack at S6 I6 w/ power weapons and Psyk grenades, Crusaders at S5 I3)

Upping this to 1850 is easy: Take a Grand Master, give the Land Raider scout. Position your land raider off to the side of your Chimeras, after deployment scout it in front of your Chimeras and pop smoke. Congrats, it is now nearly impossible for your opponent to harm either.

[Xas]

I am a de player...

I have to assume you are in fact a very bad DE player or plain lieing with that statement.
Any DE player worth the air they breath would realize how easy it is to stun/shaken a grand total of 6 vehicle that have to sit totally still and fire directly (and therefore be deployed from start where they intend to sit for the rest of the game).

I evaluate your imba-broke-***-list would have a 0% chance of winning against mech-de and only a 75% chance of killing any model to begin with if said DE list was used by a good player (did I say that stunlocking 6 vehicles is laughably easy yet?).

[Demonus]

FAQ states he directs shooting at the Drop pod and the people inside (cant remember if this is a second roung of shooting, or just part of a single round)

yes I know, that is why i said the 10 sternguard would be in cover (from the wrecked drop pod assuming he wrecked/destroyed it)

cactusman, how would a scouted land raider with smoke moving forward make it impossible to harm either? im guessing the cover save for the LR and chimeras? 50/50 shot on the save, so not completely "near impossible"

also putting corteaz in the LR means a drop pod army would destroy you as he cannot shoot them down from inside a Land Raider can he?

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

I also am a DE player and I think my DE army would spank this list if there is cover of any kind on the field. Heck even a scout heavy space wolf list would wreck havoc in monkeys line at least long enough till their big brothers get there.

Its a good stratgey but i wouldnt shape the whole list on it. you need more supporting cast

[thecactusman17]

Demonus, Coteaz is in a CLOSE COMBAT squad. I couldn't give less of a damn whether or not he could shoot at a deep striking land raider.

It's not like this list is hyper competetive after my changes, but the one featured is pretty similar to one a friend of mine runs, it works quite well. Land Raiders are very tough to crack even with the right tools, adding in a cover save to everything involved is hardly a poor tactical decision.

[w7west]

You don't have the firepower to outshoot your opponent


29 lascannons outshoots 2k missile wolves. Easily outshoots 1500 guard and tau.



you don't have the mobility to pick your fights


Everything is mounted in armor 12 transports. I pick the best weapon for any kind of fight.



and you don't have the durability to outlast your opponent.


One armor 12 vehicle per 250 points, we have different definitions of durable.

[w7west]

I have to assume you are in fact a very bad DE player or plain lieing with that statement.
Any DE player worth the air they breath would realize how easy it is to stun/shaken a grand total of 6 vehicle that have to sit totally still and fire directly (and therefore be deployed from start where they intend to sit for the rest of the game).

I evaluate your imba-broke-***-list would have a 0% chance of winning against mech-de and only a 75% chance of killing any model to begin with if said DE list was used by a good player (did I say that stunlocking 6 vehicles is laughably easy yet?).

What? You are going to stun 6 vehicles from max range at 1500? I guess my codex was missing some pages.

What I see as more likely would be one or two chimeras being stunned, and every other one successfully exploding a raider.

[DarkLink]

29 lascannons outshoots 2k missile wolves. Easily outshoots 1500 guard and tau.

No. No it doesn't. Well, maybe Tau because lascannons are pretty good against Crisis Suits, but you won't magically beat Guard or Wolves.

Since your army is completely immobile, it will be easy for your opponent to get cover for at least the first few turns. With a 4+ on everything (including smoke on vehicles), 29 BS3 lascannons kills about 2 Rhinos a turn, or about 1.5 Chimera a turn. You'll get a few more damage results out of your multi-lasers, but then your opponent is free to retaliate. It'll take you two to three turns to kill just his transports, using all of your firepower.

And if you focus on his dudes (most of which are probably hidden in transports so you have to waste a turn or two on them first), you're only killing 6 guys a turn, plus a few more from multi-lasers. Any opponent who has any decent ranged firepower (Grey Knights, anyone?) will tear open your vehicles just as quickly as you can hurt them. But as soon as you start losing models, your list just falls apart. If an opponent can open two chimera, all he has to do is kill 10 guardsmen. That's a third of your list gone, and most tournament lists should be able to reliably do that first turn, even if they have to weather a round of your shooting first. And if they get to go first, you won't even get that much. For you, it only goes downhill from there.

And God help you if your opponent has a Land Raider. By the time it gets close enough for your multi-meltas to hurt it, you're screwed. And you'll lose the firefight if you're facing Leman Russes. Or Necrons, for that matter.



Everything is mounted in armor 12 transports.

Immobile transports with a side armor of 10. Remember, if the vehicle moves, the passengers count as moving. Even pivoting the Chimera will prevent you from shooting any multi-meltas or lascannons.




I pick the best weapon for any kind of fight.

No, you don't. You can't, because you don't have the best weapon for any kind of fight.

You might have a decent selection of weapons, but what you lack is significant. Jokaero do not have access to any guns that provide mobile, long range firepower. Every time you move a chimera, you lose a significant proportion of your firepower.





One armor 12 vehicle per 250 points, we have different definitions of durable.

6 Chimeras are not tough, nor are 30 guys with 5+ armor. If your opponent doesn't have the durability to either weather your mediocre shooting or the firepower to open a couple Chimera from a distance in the first turn or two, then he doesn't deserve to win.

6 Rhinos filled with Marines is tough. Guard equivalents are not tough.



Once again, you have mediocre firepower, mediocre durability, and horrible mobility. On top of that you have no CC ability whatsoever. The only two "good" things about your list is that it is redundant and most everything scores. And I guess you can kill horde orks really well, too. But there are a lot of things that are effectively hard counters to your list that you can't consider it top tier, let alone broken in any way.

[Velium]

i'd like to point out that even against horde orks the lootas will break 3 chimeras turn 1 and that from there its pretty well gameoversville.

[Denied]

You should umm go check the Grey Knight FAQ, Jokero are a joke if you take more then a couple in a squad.


Aslo BS 3 models not twin linked one shot.... not worth it you will miss with over 50% of the shots.

[Tynskel]

Immobile transports with a side armor of 10. Remember, if the vehicle moves, the passengers count as moving. Even pivoting the Chimera will prevent you from shooting any multi-meltas or lascannons.



Pivoting does not count as moving.

[Lord Inquisitor]

If your chimeras explode you'll easily lose half the squad, also. Then your most likely running or pinned.

[murrburger]

I think the topic title sums it up nicely.

You should read the FAQ/read the ape entry again.

[Demonus]

Pivoting does not count as moving.

I believe for the purposes of passengers it does. That is why you cant pivot a Wave Serpent so the Banshees can come out the back ramp, and have them assault.

[DarkLink]

No, I recalled incorrectly. Just checked the rulebook, and passangers count as moving when the vehicle does, so pivoting in place is ok.

[nosferatu]

May i just point out a tiny...over looked factor. its all fine and dandy to say you have an unbreakable list but in truth its all down to the small six face lady, known to to many as die/dice. You’re gonna fire 29 cannons at me, fine roll for it. bs3 monkey...so if i have done my maths right, 12 will miss. so that’s 13 hits. Yes this will have an impact (dead tanks etc.), no questioning this but...this is if you have first turn and if your opponent is stupid enough not to cover hug.

oh and if you were fighting an ork horde player, so mobs of 30 per slot, even if you select h.bolters, they will get you. if they have grotsnik...have fun with the whaaaaagggh with inv saves . your army is cheesy and a prime example of people who just want to play to win not for fun but its not unbeatable.

just my two pence
nos'

[DarkLink]

Jokaero don't get heavy bolters. They do get heavy flamers, but by the time the whole ork army reaches your line the ability to kill 30 orks in one shot is won't matter for much longer. You'll kill one or two mobs, then get swarmed by the rest.

If it can't beat horde orks, it's not a good list.

[nosferatu]

Jokaero don't get heavy bolters. They do get heavy flamers, but by the time the whole ork army reaches your line the ability to kill 30 orks in one shot is won't matter for much longer. You'll kill one or two mobs, then get swarmed by the rest.

If it can't beat horde orks, it's not a good list.

exactly. agaisnt swarm armies you will be over run. so in answer to the title; like hell im gonna give up!

[Tynskel]

I believe for the purposes of passengers it does. That is why you cant pivot a Wave Serpent so the Banshees can come out the back ramp, and have them assault.

I don't remember seeing anything that would prevent you from doing this.

It is just in most cases you do not want to do this because you now have your tank's rear armor and lack of wave serpent bonus protecting your transport.

[dvs1]

In an competitive environment that constantly has to deal with heavy mech, razorwolf/baal spam and the like, I can't even begin to imagine what an army that can't kill 6 chimeras at range has in chances of winning. Just think, what happens if you don't go first? That alone should be half the time. Sorry, I hate to beat the dead horse but its better to know before buying all those monkeys. Although the idea for an army from the planet of the apes is a fun thought :o

[w7west]

In an competitive environment that constantly has to deal with heavy mech, razorwolf/baal spam and the like, I can't even begin to imagine what an army that can't kill 6 chimeras at range has in chances of winning. Just think, what happens if you don't go first? That alone should be half the time. Sorry, I hate to beat the dead horse but its better to know before buying all those monkeys. Although the idea for an army from the planet of the apes is a fun thought :o

I would probably hide the jokero on foot behind a few chimera if I had to go second. Apparently all 6 of them are going to blow up on the first turn every game I play (1500 points). Once all 6 have been blown up the first turn I would attempt to shoot back with my weak 29 lascannons. Apparently that is just not enough anti tank for 1500 points as we all know I would be up against 9 land raiders.

You guys made good points on the horde armies too. Every army I play ofc will have 45 lootas (1500) and a few hundred boys (1500). Lascannons are no good here.. I probably would have no chance. If only there was some kind of gun that had a nice big template that didn't have to roll to hit that I could stack 5 times after moving in my bunker...... No you are right 5 stack heavy flamers x 6 is no good at all against orks (1500) so this army will lose every time.

[dvs1]

By all means, give it a go. It may surprise us all... Just proxy up the army and play some games to see how it does in the field. I'd love to read some batreps on this type of army. seriously.

[L192837465]

Aslo BS 3 models not twin linked one shot.... not worth it you will miss with over 50% of the shots.

LOL The stupidity in this post is mind-boggling. I didn't know exactly 50/50 was less than or greater than 50/50.

Where do you teach math, professor?

[Bean]

LOL The stupidity in this post is mind-boggling. I didn't know exactly 50/50 was less than or greater than 50/50.

Where do you teach math, professor?

I had a similar reaction. Maybe by "miss" he meant "either fail to hit or fail to wound."

Of course, operating from that premise, very few weapons fail to "miss" more than half the time...

[w7west]

May i just point out a tiny...over looked factor. its all fine and dandy to say you have an unbreakable list but in truth its all down to the small six face lady, known to to many as die/dice. You’re gonna fire 29 cannons at me, fine roll for it. bs3 monkey...so if i have done my maths right, 12 will miss. so that’s 13 hits. Yes this will have an impact (dead tanks etc.), no questioning this but...this is if you have first turn and if your opponent is stupid enough not to cover hug.

oh and if you were fighting an ork horde player, so mobs of 30 per slot, even if you select h.bolters, they will get you. if they have grotsnik...have fun with the whaaaaagggh with inv saves . your army is cheesy and a prime example of people who just want to play to win not for fun but its not unbeatable.

just my two pence
nos'

I'm not a mean guy so I'll just let this go.

[Denied]

LOL The stupidity in this post is mind-boggling. I didn't know exactly 50/50 was less than or greater than 50/50.

Where do you teach math, professor?


Okay poor choice of language to say "miss" ineffective just didn't have the same ring:

BS 3 = hitting on a 4,5,6 ; missing on a 1,2,3 = 50/50 to hit

Depending on AV:
14= Glance on 5; pen on 6; Miss on 1,2,3,4
13= Glance on 4; pen on 5,6; Miss on 1,2,3
12= Glance on 3; Pen on 4,5,6; Miss on 1,2
11= Glance on 2; Pen on 3,4,5,6; Miss on 1
10= Pen on 2,3,4,5,6; Miss on 1

No matter what the AV is you are still only damaging the vehicle less then 50% of the time since you have to initially "hit" it and you only have 50/50 odds on that with BS 3 then at best you are damaging it 5/6th of the time, which is 41.67% of the time.

So, you are effectively doing nothing to your target 58.3% of the time or "missing" eat a phallus Grammar ****.

[w7west]

I agree there is a chance that a lascannon does nothing every time it is shot.

[Denied]

Think of it this way:

Lascannon:

BS 3 = 50 chance to hit, 41.67% chance to damage on AV10

BS 4= 66.6% chance to hit 55.56% Chance to damage on AV10

BS 3 TL = 75% chance to hit 62.5% Chance to damage on AV10 (This is why people hate dettas)

BS 4 TL = 88.8% chance to hit 74% chance to damage on AV10
(Oh StormRaven Gunship you make me happy, I wish you were cheaper)

So out of the 29 Lascannon shots you take:

BS 3 = 12.08 are going to do anything

BS 4 = 16.1 are going to do anything

BS 3 TL= 18.13 are going to do anything

BS 4 TL= 21.46 are going to do anything

These are your BEST odds.


You're not the first person to think Jokero Monkey spam could be amazing. Then people realize the math doesn't work in their favor. If Jokero were TL Lascannons then I wouldn't be bothered by BS 3, but as it is they are not. Add in the fact they have to remain stationary and all you have is a cheaper IG heavy weapons squad... nothing special or super scary.

[w7west]

Think of it this way:

...all you have is an entire army of a cheaper IG heavy weapons squadtimes 5 who can swap their guns at any time to multimelta and heavy flamer, have 5 up inv, and ride in chimeras...

exactly!

[nosferatu]

nothing special or super scary.

that just sums up everything people have been trying to say

@w7west: look i put my point across. its a dice based game, i have not met a single person who has always hit and wounded for every gun being fired. and yes i was wrong about them being armed with heavy bolters but my point still stands; it is dice based. yes you'll prob blast their transports, and yes you have horde deffences with the h.flamers but , this could be used agaisnt me, how do you know that you can deal with every unit so easily and that with out a doubt you''ll kill it with that gun in that turn? thats all im saying, as long as theres chance; you are not unbeatable.

[RealGenius]

FYI, this type of Jokero/Chimera spam list is called "The Poo Flinger".

[DarkLink]

LOL The stupidity in this post is mind-boggling. I didn't know exactly 50/50 was less than or greater than 50/50.

Where do you teach math, professor?

I'm pretty sure one of the forum rules is "don't be a douchebag". You might want to read up on that.

[Denied]

I'm pretty sure one of the forum rules is "don't be a douchebag". You might want to read up on that.

Hey DarkLink have I told you I want to have your internet babies yet today? Cause it is so going to happen :-P

[DarkLink]

Lol, I'd settle for someone finding me a job, though I may have that one covered soon ;)

[Timbo]

This whole thread seems more like performance art than argument. The list is incredibly mediocre and would crush baby seals and lose to any competant player with a well-designed, balanced list. I shudder to think what would happen to the monkeys if they did not manage to win the rolloff to go first. First turn would at least give them a fighting chance.

[Tynskel]

hmmm.

I am surprised a mod hasn't closed this.

[jksigler]

Im pretty sure I could table that list with just about any DE list no offense but this list has been posted before and just about everyone agrees it would fall apart rather quickly not mention cost a fortune to buy/build

[w7west]

The Poo Flinger (TPF) generally wants to go first, although in low point games (1500) its safe enough that if you have to go second (happens 1/3 of the time)you can set some of the monkeys on foot behind their chimera. All you need one or two squads playing heavy support each turn since you will rarely need to pop more than two vehicles a turn at this point level.

3-4 chimeras move up with heavy flamers, coteaz, and multi meltas.

The key to this army is keeping at least two offensive chimeras up. As long as two of your bunkers still have wheels you can quickly remove squads that get blown out of transports.

Just remember the durability of your army is tied directly to keeping your chimeras up. With this kind of firepower there is no need to be overly aggressive early game. Keep the armor 10 out of sight and the armor 12 in cover when you aren't flaming a squad off the table.

It's an objective based army. Much of it's strength comes from getting to the objective first, and throw your weight around with multimeltas and flamers.

The rest of it's strength comes from TPF's ability to be the army you need each turn as the game evolves. Maybe turn one you need to alpha strike armor. Maybe you need to clean up someone castling objectives. Maybe you got to the objectives first and need to stop advancing assault transports. In addition to everything else, the chimeras add a nice layer of str 5/6 range to help deal with pesky infantry like lootas and long fangs until you can flame them.