Talos rules and extra.

[Terraforcer]

Ok, fist I want to ask a basic question about the talos. The book says "Take: extra CCW 15pts". Is this a must? If not, and you replace the talos' CCW, since he does not have a CCW anymore, can he still attack in melee? If the one must take the extra CCW, then there is no problem, but then why not just add in the extra 15pts to the model cost and give it 2CCW's base?

Thats just something I noticed and wanted to get an answer to.

I also wanted to comment on some of the stupid rules that I have noticed in the DE codex. First is the archon retinue (which some have said is not a retinue), and the lamia who's ability does nothing more then give the archon a 2+ splinter pistol, and you need to purchase her.

The second ruling is the dukes ability to DS raiders,venoms,and ravagers. Why pay 150 points for an ability you can give a vehicle for much cheaper, especially since you are not allowed to assault out of them.

Just ranting about the stupid I found and wondering if anyone else noticed this as well.

[s_harrington]

I heard from around the way that the Duke's special rule lets you deepstrike your vehicles, and then disembark the units inside.
This allows them to fire the turn they arrive, where if you use retro jets, the units are stuck onboard and unable to fire.
Seems a pretty good rule to me.


As for the Talos, the extra CCW is just to give the model +1 attack in Close Combat.
And even if you don't have an Close COmbat Weapons, you can still fight at your strength, and since its a MC, it bypasses armor.
There is no down side to not having a CCW in 5th edition warhammer 40k.

As for the Archon's retinue.... yeah, pretty horrible. Although it could be worse. It could be made up of Pyrovores.

[Terraforcer]

Actually having them disebark to shoot is pointless unless you need the extra 2-3 inches because it is open topped and as such everyone can fire from inside anyways. Retro jets don't cause you to be unable to shoot, only disembark.

As for the talos, if we go by RAW, then you must take the extra CCW because it doesnt say you may, it just says take, thats why it is confusing.

[Kawauso]

It says "Take:" for the other options in the codex, too, like Night Shields and Flickerfields on vehicles. But you don't have to take them. They're options.

[Xas]

I'm feeling allmost disgusted that people with so little rules knowledge (two ccw giving +1A, ccw not beeing needed to strike in cc, movements of >6 dissallowing shooting from fire points / open topped, ...) dares to question/rant about perfectly fine codex entries.


what does a llhamia do? be as cheap as a stock warrior in an otherwise expensive squad. never leave without the maximum allowance!

why pay 150 points for the duke? simply because deepstriking vehicles is just ONE of his many abilities and an archon with similar wargear would cost the same (that is IF you were able to buy a blast pistol, agoniser AND poisoned weapon and use them all simultaneously like the serpent's bite!) and you get 2 combat drugs, 3+ poison on a unit and free retrofire jets FOR FREE.

according to the twisted thing I'm not going to call "logic" in any way lysander would be crap too since you'd be paying 200points "just" to make your marines stubborn... how dumb is that for real? or ~100 points on a tyranid prime to make just one squad of warriors +1WS/BS...****ty deals all of them!

[Terraforcer]

Okay... I guess that makes sense for the take option. I guess I just always felt that none was an option when something states "any" but thats a good point.

And yes, letting them disembark and fire does make sense. I am new to vehicles and thought that since it was a fast vehicle and that since the vehicle could fire so could those inside. I do understand the other value that the duke puts out, I was not saying that he was useless, I just felt the special rule was odd and didnt understand how it was different from retrojets.

And Xas I apoligize for offending you, I just wanted some rules clarifications since I happen to make mistakes sometimes. And actually you only get 1 combat drug you just get to choose it from 2 rolls.

[DrLove42]

Firstly a Talos has 2 CCW to start off with. By changing one of them to say Chainflails, you lose the +1 for having 2 CCWs. So you can buy another one to increase more attacks. It does not mean "I have no CCW's I can't attack!". Thats like saying if I give my Dreadknight 2 Thunderhammers, he has no CCW's and can't attack!"

And yes the Duke lets you disembark and shoot, which retrofire doesn't. This is important as even on an opentopped vehcile the passengers can't shoot if you go over 6".

[isotope99]

And yes the Duke lets you disembark and shoot, which retrofire doesn't. This is important as even on an opentopped vehcile the passengers can't shoot if you go over 6".

I'd like to see GW sync up their rules for 6ed. The fact that the fast attribute makes you count as a different speed for one purpose but not for another, fairly similar purpose is needlessly confusing.

[DrLove42]

Personally I think the idea we can't shoot while riding at 12", but then we get out of a vehicle which was doing 60mph 2 seconds ago (getting out really mean doing more work) and suddenly we can fire just as well as if we'd slowly walked across a field is silly.

[yrdetraxe]

Firstly a Talos has 2 CCW to start off with
No, that's wrong. It just has 1 CCW Attack to start with. Read the Codex entry. ;)
You can change that one to Chain-flails, Ichor-injector, etc... resulting in no loss of attacks.
But you can add a second CCW for the bonus attack.

I know the wording is a bit misleading on this one as it says under options
"Replace one of its close combat weapons with one of the following:"

But under Wargear it just says "Close combat weapon" (singular) not weapons

@Terraforcer:
I would strongly recommend reading the BRB again. You seem quite unfamiliar with the basic rule mechanisms.
You don't need CCW's to attack in assault. As long as a modell has a number of attacks (or arms) it can attack. ;)

[DrLove42]

You are indeed correct yrdetraxe!

I apoligise...I was under the impression he had 2, mostly from the way a) the model has 2 and b)the way is says swap one of the CCW for...