FAQ's - where do they come from?

[Wildeybeast]

I was browsing through the FAQ's today and I got to thinking about where GW gets these questions from and how they decide which ones warrant answering. I know in the olden days, you could ring up the Trollz at HQ and ask them rules queries, but now you are directed to your local store so GW has no centralised way of collating the rules issues people have.
So my question is - where do these come from? The questions read as if asked by a real person, yet who? Tournaments? GW staffers trawlling through forums? Survey store managers of most FAQs? Or do the rules guys simply pick up on some issues they missed when writing and decide they need correcting? Does anyone out on the interweb know how this process works?

[wkz]

Sometimes, just sometimes, (and perhaps this is a thing of the past) GW trawls the interwebs for questions and answers. I know this because there was once someone screaming at the top of his voice in a forum somewhere (I think it was Warseerer, not sure) about GW ripping off just about every question right down to the last sentence structure and wording, and did not credit the guy.

[Gir]

Sometimes, just sometimes, (and perhaps this is a thing of the past) GW trawls the interwebs for questions and answers. I know this because there was once someone screaming at the top of his voice in a forum somewhere (I think it was Warseerer, not sure) about GW ripping off just about every question right down to the last sentence structure and wording, and did not credit the guy.

Certainly sounds like a warseerer.

[BuFFo]

FAQs are created with this simple process;

Sources outside and inside GW come up with questions and answers. They are submitted, usually, to the author of the book. USUALLY. From what I know, there is very little editing done, and a FAQ is born.

For example;

Years ago, the guys over at Dakka Dakka wrote the FAQs for GW through a yahoo messenger group, or something like that. You can see at the bottom of any faq made roughly from 2005 - 2008 the name of the group, Yakface (head honcho over at dakka dakka) and his faq ruling council, his beer drinking friends and other online collaborators.

From what I gather, they took flak online for their questionable rulings, and then the FAQs started to say at the bottom something along the line of "from various gamer sources". My money says that Yak and his buds still wrote the stuff, but no longer wanted to be credited for it to keep the nerd rage off their back. These faqs are roughly 2008 - 2010.

Now, if you look at a FAQ, all mention of source has been removed.

Everything I said has a healthy dose of fact, with a little bit of rumor mill tossed in, so take what I say for what it is worth.

I do know, for instance wjhen the Empire FAQ came out in 2005/2006whatever, there was a HUGE stink over the Steam Tank and how it's rules made NO SENSE with the FAQ rulings. The thing about this particular instance is that Allessio Cavatore, the guy who wrote the army book and most of Fantasy at the time, was personally involved with the Steam Tank ruling. So publicly, we had a single instance where a FAQ was written by gamers, submitted to the author, who he himself then just okay'd everything without reading over it much, and thus a FAQ was born, with typical editorial ruling errors and all.

Back in 2006, I attended the Adepticon with my Chaos Dwarves. There were questions I had regarding the online, two page rule book I had, but no FAQ. I asked the head judge at Adepticon months before the tourney my questions, and he gave me answers. After the event, Chaos Dwarves got an FAQ, even though it stated it was only good for "U.S. GT events". So I have PERSONAL knowledge of how there really is no process to making a FAQ. I basically wrote the FAQ questions, The gents at Adepticon wrote the answers for the event, and question to question, literally the same questions I asked, became an FAQ.

Bottom line is that NO, "GW" does not write the FAQs, and if they currently do, almost a decade of fans writing them is ingrained in how I perceive them making FAQs today. At most, FAQs are submitted to "someone" at GW, usually a book author, who I am sure takes 20 minutes to read over the thing, and they just upload it.

Now I know you will ask "if the author reads over the thing, why do the FAQs contradict the original ruling of their own work sometimes?" The answer is a simple one, which is an answer most GW customers, er, hobbyists, will put fingers in their ears and ignore -

GW doesn't CARE. The Authors are there to make rules to sell models, that is it. GW does not make a GAME, they make MODELS. Big difference. The rules are just a vehicle to SELL models and other hobby related items. Get me? GW makes the game fun, loose and open to interpretation because that is just their business model. The codex authors don't care about tight rules because for them 40K is about having a good time and not taking the game seriously. WE, the hobbyists, IN GENERAL, on the other hand, have changed in three decades, and we no longer care about fun. We want tight rules so we can WIN. We want long fangs and gray hunters, not Mandrakes and Shining Spears. GW, and The Cruddance, don't care about the particulars of how the Doom works, or if a Spore Pod can carry a Prime. When they play games, they alter the rules to suit their FUN, but we, the hobbyists, IN GENERAL, can't have fun. We simply can't.

Every time I try to fly my Reavers and trace a curved line, my opponent TELLS me NO, and the "GW side of war gaming" dies a little more for me. I have NO problem letting a Nid player stick a Prime in a pod with Warriors, or having the DOOM hit models in vehicles, or have Shadow of the Warp affect my Battle Psyker Squad in a Chimera, because I game for FUN, and MY goal is to see my opponent SMILE in every turn until the game is over, and we give a hardy handshake to end things, but I can tell you, no one ever does the same for me. It's like pulling teeth.

The worst experience I EVER had was in 2009 'Ard Boyz in Orlando. Game 2 I faced another dark eldar player, Lance. He was the biggest D!CK I have ever come across. The issue? We both played DE, and we played since 1998. Two people, a decade of experience, played EVERY rule in the book differently because of the loose wording.

The FAQ we had was written for two people to have fun and use the golden rule to fix any issues we had, but he wanted to win SO bad, that day, the GW side of war gaming was literally ruined for me.

That was the day I stopped going to tourneys all the time, and realized how WRONG it is to play a GW game in a tourney setting of any kind. Do I take part in an EVENT where winning isn't everything? SURE! I love those! But my tourney days are maybe one weekend a year at best now.

Now when I game 40k in my local area, every person I play either doesn't know the rules, or move models 7", or fudge dice to win, or forget rules to benefit them UNTIL after the game is over, the list goes on and on... I am just tired of letting the guy across the table form me get away with murder just so I can enjoy myself for 2 hours, and not have the game feel like a damn messy CHORE.

Wow.... I guess that was a long time coming, huh? End rant...

And, um, yeah... That is how FAQs are made...

I am ready to receive Quote Bombs now....

[Brettila]

No, BuFFo, for once I whole-heartedly agree with you. AND, most of the questions answered seem as if they were asked by a mentally challenged 12 year old. My apologies to 12 year old players who actually know what is going on. FAQ's are constantly filled with questions about rules that are blatantly obvious. "Does my librarian get to use his psychic hood against psychic powers?" "Can my terminators use a rhino?" And so on... This most recent main book FAQ only had 2 valuable items. One stated that a ram could never be more than S10...wow, stunning revelation there. I agree that they are generally worthless.

[BuFFo]

Actually, I think the Stork brings us FAQs.

[wkz]

Harness the Hate, Buffo. Let it seep into every single post you will ever make...

But in all honesty aside, despite GW wanting a somewhat competitive game (it DOES sell models), I think we all know 40k's position in the general populous of "little toy men": 40k currently stands in a position very heavily towards fluff.

And seriously now, why can't we, the hobbyists, IN GENERAL, have fun? Even in the world full of JotWW, Long fangs, Razorback spam, etc, why can't we have story-based, "memorable" fun? If your opponent TELLS you NO "you can't use Str10 Dreadknights" right after he uses a scouting shunt move, then you're just simply playing with the wrong OPPONENT, instead of the wrong game system...

[MarneusCalgar]

I thought they come from Mars hehehehe

[BuFFo]

Harness the Hate, Buffo. Let it seep into every single post you will ever make...

But in all honesty aside, despite GW wanting a somewhat competitive game (it DOES sell models), I think we all know 40k's position in the general populous of "little toy men": 40k currently stands in a position very heavily towards fluff.

And seriously now, why can't we, the hobbyists, IN GENERAL, have fun? Even in the world full of JotWW, Long fangs, Razorback spam, etc, why can't we have story-based, "memorable" fun? If your opponent TELLS you NO "you can't use Str10 Dreadknights" right after he uses a scouting shunt move, then you're just simply playing with the wrong OPPONENT, instead of the wrong game system...

If the system allows for multiple people to read the same rule, and come up with completely opposite out comes, that is not the fault of the players at all.

Now if the rules were tight in the first place, there would be less of a need for an FAQ, and less arguments.

But when you have a player base asking for consistency, but the company that makes the game basically laughs at such a notion, instead assuming that the community can police itself up, which it can't, you end up having multiple gaming groups playing a totally different game, faqs or not.

As a game system is not a living thing, I agree, the FINAL issue is with the players who interpret ambiguous rules for their benefit and not the benefit of the experience. I have, though, given up on trying to find opponents who just play for fun. Even the ones who claim to play for fun, still, just force smiles and hope to win over enjoyment of the experience.

In my opinion, War Gaming is a hobby where the MEANS is everything, and the END is an after thought. When you have confusing rules, coupled with "we don't give a sh!t" FAQs, the MEANS becomes near impossible to enjoy, and all we have left is the END. It ends up being easier to achieve the END with 15 Long Fangs than it is to enjoy the MEANS with Blood Claws on foot.

[Deadlift]

Wow.... I guess that was a long time coming, huh? End rant...

I am ready to receive Quote Bombs now....

You know mate you may get some flack sometimes, but generally I enjoy your posts. Especially this one. Really informative. I had no idea that the FAQ came from the fan base.

However I generally don't bother with them either, it takes me long enough to get my head around a codex rules or those in the current rule book for me to bother confusing myself further. I just play casual games and haven't played any tournament since 4ed. I had enough of the squeaky nerd rage when I was quite happy to just roll a dice to settle a gaming dispute.

I have seen kids come to blows (more a swinging of arms in a general direction) over rule disagreements.

Maybe GW need to make their writing of rules more airtight and simplify them a little so we don't need FAQ at all ? However that would take more time, and time means money :)

[wittdooley]

I always assume the FAQs came from the island of misfit toys...

[Wildeybeast]

Buffo, you are right about GW making rules for the models. When they first started out, it was just citadel minatures, sold through WD, and these were made for D&D or just cool models that they liked. Eveentually they thought 'we have all these cool models and nothing to do with them so lets make some rules' and so Warhammer was born.

Also, some interesting insights on where the FAQ's come from - basically anywhere and everywhere is what I'm getting

[HsojVvad]

AND, most of the questions answered seem as if they were asked by a mentally challenged 12 year old. My apologies to 12 year old players who actually know what is going on.

Ah that is great, my kid is mentally challenged and she doesn't really understand what is going on. That is pretty insulting and NOT FUNNY at all.

[BuFFo]

I always assume the FAQs came from the island of misfit toys...

That sounds very familiar... I could google it, but I would like to know where you got that from :)

[wittdooley]

That sounds very familiar... I could google it, but I would like to know where you got that from :)

The holidy classic Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. Oh Hermes, you foolish elfen dentist.

[condottiere]

My perspective on FAQs for Warhammer games is that I need them for four reasons, three based on the first:

1. The rules set are too loose,

2. We're a generation that also plays computer games, which are updated and patched as "bugs" are discovered, whether it's just graphic glitches or units that need to be improved or nerfed if they unbalance the game.

3. I'd like to know exactly what my army can do, so that I don't neeedlessly need to spend half an hour looking it up and interpreting the grammar and definition of "is" in the AB and the BRB to justify it to my opponent.

4. I like to know precisely the limits of what my opponent's forces can do, for similar reasons.

Compare this to computer games, where the rules are concrete within the perimeters they were programmed for, and RPGs, where they are interpreted by someone independent whose objective is to allow his compatriots to have a fun time, within the boundaries of the milieu and scenarios he is arbitrating/has created. Sure, two reasonable human beings should be able to come to terms, but it sometimes turns out that tanked up with adrenaline and beer, not every player remains reasonable and may stretch the definition of human.

[Mauglum.]

Gamers want well defined ,elegant and intuitive rule sets.
They want straighforward rules that deliver the maximum gameplay with the minimum of fuss.

All good game companies work towards these goals.

GW plc is NOT a games company.(Games companies think the rules are VERY important.)
According to its Chairman Tom Kirby,'... GW is in the buisness of selling toy soldiers to kiddies...':eek:

Acording to Rick Priestly ,40ks '...old fashined and clunky...' game mechanics do not matter to GW plcs 'core demoghraphic' .(Kiddies that make up thier own rules , Pew Pew your dead, and collectors who dont play!)

So the rules are littered with new shiney 'Special rules' to help sell the new shiney releases.

According to Rick, the rules are full of data to learn that give the' kiddies' something to argue over, as they have not got the ability to grasp the tactical overview more experianced gamers have.
(...I won 14 rules argument to Bobbies 10, but he had a few more models left at the end so it was a draw, realy...')

40k written to inspire' kiddies' to whine until thier parents buy them some 'toy soldiers'.

Thats why' gamers' find the 40k rule set so unsuitable .;)

[HsojVvad]

You would think after 25 years of 40K and what 30 years of Fantasy GW would know how to write clear conisece rules.

Guess GW just doesn't know how to write properly. If they did we wouldn't have all these debates on rules and have stupid FAQs that GW gives out.

Another reason how GW treats it's grown up customers, as we were kids. Pretty shamefull, but they know they are the best and we keep coming back. At least now if what I am reading is correct 2010 is the worst sales for GW. While they made lots of money, the sales are the worst so here is hoping they are changing now.

[BrokenWing]

Wow...maybe it's because I don't go to alot of tournaments, but I don't have even half the problems you guys do. I mean, ok, the 5th Edition rulebook (unlike the 4th edition one) is *horribly* put together and everything is overly scattered and difficult to find. Never had significant problems understanding rules in individual codex books or finding the core rules terribly unclear. Scattered maybe, and not well done in 5th edition, but in 4th edition I thought it was quite well organized and written. 8th Edition Fantasy is the clearest, most well written rulebook I've seen out of GW.

[Dalleron]

I have to disagree that GW doesn't know how to write a ruleset.

I play LotR,occasionally I will add, but I found that the ruleset for that system is better than either fantasy or 40K. It says 99% of the time what happens when XX happens. You do this, not that, or that or whatever.

So someone in GW's vast empire can write a ruleset.

It think it comes down to GW don't really care to write a good ruleset, only to sell toy soldiers, as has been previously mentioned.

[BrokenWing]

Guess I'm crazy, but I actually think they've written good rulesets. For this I turn your attention to Warhammer Fantasy 8th Edition and Warhammer 40k 4th edition. I'm defining good as: I can play with friends and have alot of fun. I can also go to tournaments and enjoy myself. It may not be a set written for tournaments centered on tournament players, but when that happens I'll probably get bored. If I wanted to play something centered entirely around tournaments I'd find something else to do with my time.

[wkz]

*in before someone points out the few, but planet-crackingly big, mistakes in 8th edition*

[HsojVvad]

I have to disagree that GW doesn't know how to write a ruleset.

I play LotR,occasionally I will add, but I found that the ruleset for that system is better than either fantasy or 40K. It says 99% of the time what happens when XX happens. You do this, not that, or that or whatever.

So someone in GW's vast empire can write a ruleset.

It think it comes down to GW don't really care to write a good ruleset, only to sell toy soldiers, as has been previously mentioned.

You bring up a good point. We talk so much about 40K and Fantasy shoddy writing we forgot about LortR. I think one of the reasons why LotR are well written is because of the contract. There is no way the Tolkien estate want to be assoicated with shoddy 40K and Fantasy writting so that is why there is a big difference for LotR. GW is not allowed to treat the LotR fanbase as little children as they do in 40K and Fantasy.

[eldargal]

Well I think part of the problem GW face is how to make a streamlined, esy to play ruleset without losing the 40k/WFB character of the ruleset or make all the armies play in much the same fashion bar some stat differences (coughKoWuncough).

As for FAQs, I think most of the problem is people treat them like errata instead of houserules.

[Psychosplodge]

When a Mummy FAQ and a Daddy FAQ love each other very much, they give each other a "special hug".....

[wittdooley]

Has anyone even thought to consider the fact that the problem is actually all the douchenozzles that intentionally try and work their way around the ruleset?

Reasonable people can agree on the spirit of a rule. A-holes are the ones that try and work around that. I don't play with those people.

[DrLove42]

When a Mummy FAQ and a Daddy FAQ love each other very much, they give each other a "special hug".....

Yay! Special Hugs!

And yes it comes down to people trying to find their way around the rules. These people are the same sort that play mech IG and melta the crap out of everything...

[wittdooley]

Yay! Special Hugs!

And yes it comes down to people trying to find their way around the rules. These people are the same sort that play mech IG and melta the crap out of everything...

See, this is what I don't get. Guess what me and my buddies do when we're unsure about a rule?

We do what the rulebook says and roll it off.

Problem solved.

Then again, none of us play melta-mech guard or razorback spam.

[Bean]

I have to disagree that GW doesn't know how to write a ruleset.

I play LotR,occasionally I will add, but I found that the ruleset for that system is better than either fantasy or 40K. It says 99% of the time what happens when XX happens. You do this, not that, or that or whatever.

So someone in GW's vast empire can write a ruleset.

It think it comes down to GW don't really care to write a good ruleset, only to sell toy soldiers, as has been previously mentioned.

You've got to be kidding: LOTR is a disaster. It's as if they wrote a rules-system that was basically the same as Fantasy, then decided to change it substantially--the new system they came up with is good, but they didn't bother to go back and re-do all of the rules from the original set to match them.

Check out the spell Exsiccate sometime--compare it to, say, Fireball. Exsiccate does far more hits to almost all targets--it's supposed to be balanced by the lower strength of its hits. Too bad, of course, that the strength of its hits are entirely irrelevant. A hit turns directly into a casualty (or two hits into a casualty for R2 units) with no roll required--strength only matter when you are rolling to hit which spells that generate hits, like exsiccate or fireball, don't do.

Or how about the characters with rules that don't do anything?

The LOTR rules are innovative, but they are in no sense well-written.

[HsojVvad]

Reasonable people can agree on the spirit of a rule.

There in lies the problem. GW market audiance is new people corredect? So how are these people suppose to know the "spirit of the rules"?

I have been in the hobby modelling and collecting for years but only recently started playing. So how am I suppose to know what the Spirit of the rules are? I can only go by 5th edtion, I have alot of people saying this was how it was done in 4th edtion.

I can't go by what is 4th but 5th only since that is all I know rules why. So what is "spirit of the rules" then?

[Lord Azaghul]

+1 to buffo on this one.
GW fellas write stuff that they think would be fun, and they play them in that manner: to have fun, becausing winning isn’t serious business to them!

My experience for GW tourney’s is very similar, and the reason I won’t play in them anymore (yes I’m a guard player! – The grief received is great, even if I platoon up!)

GW does not write solid tourniment rules on purpose. Privateer Press does – also on purpose – and both companies cater to different branches of the same tree.

I love my hobbying, but don’t have much of a desire to play/buy gw anymore – Fantasy isn’t the game I want, and hasn’t been for a while, 40k, while a mostly like, I can’t get anyone to play after the latest debacle, and quiet frankly I don’t want to play it at the moment either.

I’m come to realize that I like the tourny enviroment, it inspires me to build and paint and play more in general. Dystopian Wars is a lot of fun, but the biggest group in my area is WM/H, so I’m picking that up. I like the rules set, sure the models aren’t quite awesome to me as my guardmen and dwarves are – but I want a better game – one more designed for fair play, with a tighter rule set.

I will keep my IG/Dwarves, lots of good mememores – but just for casual play, gw tourneys aren’t fun, but there casual play is.

[wittdooley]

I will keep my IG/Dwarves, lots of good mememores – but just for casual play, gw tourneys aren’t fun, but there casual play is.

This is really key, IMO. However, I've had some of my most fun gaming at the Adepticon 40k Team Tourney. I've been two years running now, and it's a blast. This next year will be even moreso, particulalry with the army we have planned. The acronym for our team name is tMWH. If you can figure it out, I'll let you in on the hilarious secret.

[eldargal]

tickleMyWarHammer?

[wittdooley]

Hehe, nope. Bear in mind last year we ran a Chapter of Space Marines that had gone bankrupt and had their chapter house forclosed on; we like playing up the humourous aspect...

[Lord Azaghul]

Hehe, nope. Bear in mind last year we ran a Chapter of Space Marines that had gone bankrupt and had their chapter house forclosed on; we like playing up the humourous aspect...

The Mortgaged Waaggging Horde?

[sps62487]

I hate playing GW employees. Just because they have a red or black polo shirt that says Games Workshop on it they think they know everything. Wrong. I have a friend who plays in tourneys and is a very good player and good person to play with. He isn't a rule **** or a douche. He explains the rules well. He was in a tourney playing against someone and got called on sportsmanship because he used his rule book to point out a rule to a judge. He knows the rules and has common sense. A lot of the rule questions can be solved by reading the book. Some of the other questions are iffy and deserve a faq. If you read the Blood Angels FAQ it is all that can be read out of the codex. Other questions are iffy because GW didn't say it was or wasn't. Such as the Dreadknight.

I stopped playing Warmachine awhile back before the new rules came out, cause in a tournament this guy was a real tool, I haven't played a game since (this was about 6-9 months before the new rule set as well). I may have to start again seeing the two new khador warjacks but I don't know if I want to support another GW (PP=GW Seattle)

[Psychosplodge]

tickleMyWarHammer?

BOB! Behave

[armbarred]

is it ThrustMaster WartHog?

I'm just pulling random crap from my brain...

[BuFFo]

As for FAQs, I think most of the problem is people treat them like errata instead of houserules.

AAAAAAAAAAAAA++++++++++++++++++++

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