Espn and 40k

[Occam]

It was a few years ago, but I saw Scrabble being played on ESPN. SCRABBLE.
Now, it might have been ESPN 3, but if something as boring as Golf can be on ESPN, and even Scrabble, why not war gaming? 40k is the big boy, so it lends itself. And come on, when was the last time anyone saw a football game that didn't have a billion cartoon graphics and overlays and just showed people playing?

No really. Pre-game showing off the board. Player intros and bios, model spotlight [My best painted item is...].
The game could have those same graphic squiggles and overlays and whatnot. What say you?

[LordGrise]

I'd watch it, and I think a lot of others would too; I also think there could not be a better draw to get more folks into the game.

Live commentators could provide fluff backgrounds on independent pieces, stats for unit vs unit, even battle fluff bits if the battle was part of an overall themed campaign - which they ought to be...

[Uncle Nutsy]

It wouldn't last more than a month.

why? no one wants to watch a turn take a half hour.

Sure there are games like snooker, golf and tennis on ESPN. but the difference between those games and 40k is they are a lot more fast paced, and consequently you see a lot more turns in the same amount of time.

and no one I know (from the uber nerd to jock) wants to watch an announcer drone on about a single painted miniature unless they're into that sort of thing.

So the only people watching 40k on tv is people who play 40k. not a big enough audience to make it viable. And for that, they go to youtube.

[Mike X]

Counts-as, proxies, unpainted armies/units, and models falling over would ruin the show. Maybe on YouTube, but not on ESPN.

[SonicPara]

The main issue with 40K is how long it takes to play. With sporting events, ESPN can broadcast them on the cheap because they require no editing; they simply turn the cameras on and point them at the action. A televised 40K series would work wonderfully as a web-series due to the time it takes to play a game.

[BuFFo]

With broken, barely workable rules, 40k would make for a terrible sport.

I guess that would mean 40K COULD appear on The Ocho.

[SonicPara]

With broken, barely workable rules, 40k would make for a terrible sport.

I guess that would mean 40K COULD appear on The Ocho.

40K would make just as good a spectator event as things like competitive gaming. Almost all games are inherently unbalanced, heck even classic sports like Baseball are unbalanced with teams like the Yankees and Red Sox able to "stack the deck" by buying away most of the talent from other teams. For all of the obvious balance issues between codices in 40K, there are so many layers to the strategy from list building to deployment and decision making that spectating 40K can be quite enjoyable. There is a reason that recording battle reports has become so popular on youtube.

[SotonShades]

It would deffinitely be nice to see battlereports presented in this kind of way. It wouldn't be impossible to show graphics showing ranges for unit's movement, shooting/running and assault especially if they could show overlapping fields of fire, as well as the stat lines for units in play (particularly for units in assault). Indepepndant comentary would also be pretty cool to help explain the tactics and possibilities availible to the players. I even like the idea of player interviews, spotlights on convertions and characters in the armies and the lists being used. This kind of coverage would be great for beginners to help them learn what works and what doesn't, and great for Vet's alike as those of use not lucky enough to get to the top tables in tournaments would get to see how the players who win do it.

Unfortunately I agree with most of the other posters; its just too slow paced for TV. Although we all love to play, have you ever watched a game you aren't at all involved in? To broadcast live would be pretty unlikely, especially for any game involving horde lists... but you could pre-record and show the uninteresting bits at double speed, returning to real-time for tactically significant movements, shooting and assaults. This would also have the effect of making turns last more similar lengths of time, with the first turns being sped up a lot while the last turns, where there are fewer models and each decision is more likely to affect the outcome of the battle, tend to be shown as they are played. Again, this makes these kind of battlereports better for the internet rather TV. If it was going to be televised, you would need to only show completed armies; fully painted, no proxies, everything WYSYWIG. Count-as armies would be fine, so long as they still conform to the above.

[eldargal]

Aw, I thought this was about electro plated nickel silver, stupid brain re-arranging words.

[gwensdad]

At one time, I vaguely remember the Magic:TG world championships being broadcast.

Maybe if it were produced (not live) like a battle report, with cuts, graphics on screen showing where things moved, etc. it could be interesting. But probably not worthy of the air time or, more importantly, the advertiser's dollars.

[wittdooley]

The main issue with 40K is how long it takes to play. With sporting events, ESPN can broadcast them on the cheap because they require no editing; they simply turn the cameras on and point them at the action. A televised 40K series would work wonderfully as a web-series due to the time it takes to play a game.

Require no editing? You're kidding, right?

[SonicPara]

A live sporting event, like a baseball game requires very little if any editing. Sure they throw together a couple highlights on the fly but all of the graphics and fancy overlays on the screen are pre-made and usually modular so that they can be reused during the next game. When it comes to the bulk of the coverage, it is just a network of cameras focusing on different things and a guy in a room directing which shot to show.

Compare that to a 30 or 60 minute show of an event that lasts 2+ hours. Such a show would need extensive editing not just to make it fit in the allotted time but also for it to maintain coherency. It would require a lot of post-production which can be expensive. A live sporting event requires extensive planning but little after the cameras start rolling and filming the event.

[DarkLink]

Beyond 40k's failings as a competitive game, 40k would never take off on something as mainstream as espn because no one knows what 40k is.

Scrabble is a household name. You might not play it often yourself, but you know what it is. But most people don't know what tabletop gaming is, let alone 40k.

Plus, the rules for scrabble are simple. Same with any major sport. You might not know what every penalty is in football, but you know that it's a bunch of guys trying to get the ball across the field, while tackling each other. Because European football is boring. You'd never get many people to enjoy the game, because you need to understand so many rules to even know what's going on and why are they rolling so many dice that most people would be turned away.

[Verilance]

One thing to think about though...

My son introduced me to watching competitive Starcraft from Korea, I know the games are faster ad more easily watched but if someone can spend time watching Starcraft I am sure somewhere there is a market for watching tournament level 40K after all even chess championships can be found on the internet.

[Kovnik Obama]

40K would make just as good a spectator event as things like competitive gaming. Almost all games are inherently unbalanced, heck even classic sports like Baseball are unbalanced with teams like the Yankees and Red Sox able to "stack the deck" by buying away most of the talent from other teams. For all of the obvious balance issues between codices in 40K, there are so many layers to the strategy from list building to deployment and decision making that spectating 40K can be quite enjoyable. There is a reason that recording battle reports has become so popular on youtube.


Your analogy is wrong. Almost every game are inherently balanced. Chess, checkers, tic tac to, are all perfectly balanced. Inbalance in game is what causes a game to be unenjoyable. Having better players on your team do not induce inbalance in the game itself, as long as the victory conditions are the same on one side and on the other.

And recorded battle reports aren't really that popular, if you compare to just about every other recorded sportive events.

[wittdooley]

A live sporting event, like a baseball game requires very little if any editing. Sure they throw together a couple highlights on the fly but all of the graphics and fancy overlays on the screen are pre-made and usually modular so that they can be reused during the next game. When it comes to the bulk of the coverage, it is just a network of cameras focusing on different things and a guy in a room directing which shot to show.

Compare that to a 30 or 60 minute show of an event that lasts 2+ hours. Such a show would need extensive editing not just to make it fit in the allotted time but also for it to maintain coherency. It would require a lot of post-production which can be expensive. A live sporting event requires extensive planning but little after the cameras start rolling and filming the event.

Good call. I was associating the directing with the editing. My B.

[laestli]

Considering the much geater popularity of chess world-wide I'd expect that to be on ESPN long before a brick of dice game where the added focus and scrutenty would make sloppiness of RaW painful instead of just a burden.

That said, wargaming in all forms, from Chess, Xianqi, and Go to Warmachine, FoW, and WH40K simply work much much batter in battle report form then Live.

On the other hand, basebal, golf, darts, and pokerl get plenty of screen time, so Warmachine on ESPN isn't to terribbe3ly far-fetched.

edit: One thing that would certainly help dice based wargamming break into Live brodcasting in a sustainable manner would be a comperhensive dice app with stat line data base and a game to game loadable army list. A second thing would be grid based ranged action and movement instead of tape measure based.

[Occam]

Cool. Nice to hear what people think.
I never said anything about doing it live; I really meant more in doing it with the ESPN style.

[SotonShades]

Well I'd be up for giving it a go if anyone wants to donate a camera and some video editting time. I figure we'd need at least the two players, two camera men, a tripod, three cameras, gaffa tape, a rubber duck, three XXL gloves and an oyster!

Actually, that might be a different plan...