Grey Knights 1500 All-Comers

[C.of.N.finity]

I hear a 1500 Gk can't be done and still be competitive. I've built a few I think are great built on two principles so far..

1. At less than 2k, Corteaz is your man. Henchmen add body count which gives you a presence on the field which keeps smaller units from DDing (die drowning) that would normally occur on their own.

2. Vindicare is the best anti-tank we have (and perhaps, in the game). 36" Strength 3, 4 AP dice, rending AP1. Hit on a 2+, LR goes boom on a 4+.

So I have a couple of nice 1500 lists but heres my problem - is it impossible to competitivly have terminator squads in 1500 lists?

My terminator squad build would consists of 3 halberds, one psycannon and one warding stave. I never leave home without a warding stave. I've got two boxes of termies and just can't think of a way to put them in a 1500 list and still make it work on table.

What do you guys think? Also, what other idea's are there for 1500pt lists?

Also, kinda unrelated, but with the unability to shunt with scout, what good is scout now in a GK army?

[Bean]

I've been playing paladins at 1500 points, and they're doing fine--it's not even really a finely-tuned list, just a collection of units that my wife thinks are cool.

Grey knights are fine at less than 1500 points. Honestly, they don't even need coteaz--though Coteaz is good. Drowning in guys really isn't a problem. They put out piles of damage.





Also, kinda unrelated, but with the unability to shunt with scout, what good is scout now in a GK army?


Scout is still almost always the best choice, especially for rhino strike squads. Giving the strike squad scout lets the Rhino make a scout move--if you're going first, you can use this to set up first turn stand-still shots (for eight psycannon shots out the hatch instead of four) or even first turn charges (with the two inch disembark, you can hit guys on the edge of an opponent's deployment zone turn one). If you're going second, it still lets you get into a good position quickly, but it also lets you put up smoke for your opponent's first round of shots. And, of course, it opens up outflank options, which can be nice.

Scout is excellent--it is routinely the best Grand Strategy choice.

[C.of.N.finity]

THis is probably a rookie question then, but scout translates to the vehicles then? I had thought about the transport but didn't know the vehicle itself could scout move. Is it only 6" or could you actually go cruising speed on the scout move?

And how do you fit 1500 in and still make room for other stuff? I know that if low model count bothers me then I picked the wrong army but I do try to keep a balanced presence on the field.

Another question; Srike Squad with one demon hammer, psycannon and warding stave or terminator squad with three halberds, demon hammer, warding stave and psycannon?

[Bean]

The dedicated transport of a unit with Scout can make a scout move as long as the unit is embarked in it at the point at which you make the scout move. The vehicle gets to move normally (it can go cruising speed if you want) and even pop smoke after doing so.

The 1500 point Draigo list I would play is this:

Draigo

3x paladin squads (psycannon sword, psycannon halberd, sword, halberd, hammer)

2x psy-rifle dreads.

Frankly, despite its low model count, this is a durable and versatile list.

My wife plays two of those squads with some master-crafting, draigo, one dread, one storm raven, and a teleporter/sword dreadknight. It's shorter on scoring units, but Draigo can make the dreadknight or dreadnought scoring if it becomes an issue, and the other unit types add some versatility to the army. It works a little better at 1850 where you can add a third squad, but it does still work.

A friend plays three double-psycannon, hammer, rhino Strike Squads, two dreads, and Mordrak with full ghost knight retinue. It's another strong and versatile 1500 point list. You can make do with fewer models. It does require you to think a little differently, but it can certainly work. I've seen all of these lists operate effectively.

Finally, always max out psycannons, rarely (very rarely) shell out for warding staves. Psycannons are the most important thing in the army. Warding Staves are too expensive for what they do. Pretty much every squad should take at least one hammer--and most squads don't need more than one hammer. Master-crafting the hammer is usually a reasonable call.

[C.of.N.finity]

I definatly see your point about the scout move then and I agree.

You really think that about Warding Staves? I would think that being able to save even one model at a time from AP 2-3 weapons, in some cases even wrapping around with normal wounds, would more than pay for itself?

Also, anyone know if Callidus' attacks she makes upon coming in from reserve allow cover saves in area terrain?

[Bean]

I definatly see your point about the scout move then and I agree.

You really think that about Warding Staves? I would think that being able to save even one model at a time from AP 2-3 weapons, in some cases even wrapping around with normal wounds, would more than pay for itself?

Also, anyone know if Callidus' attacks she makes upon coming in from reserve allow cover saves in area terrain?

Remember that the warding staff only works against close combat attacks, not shots. And yeah, I think they're a little too expensive for that.

[fuzzbuket]

remembemr if a netlister says 'GK without cortez are useless' dont listen,


if you play in a metagame with not too mmany metalbawxes have deepstriking foot GK
tankbustimg? pah a LR, and some hammer termies can do!


as for temies:

10 man squad 2 havey weapons
combat squad and leave BOTH weapons on your rear objective with a hammer, tada terminator purge squads!


or for some fun

1) GM ( whatever you like + some servo skulls)
2)purge squad (troops via GM)
3) 2 termi sqauds, with 1+ hammers
4)strike squad in rhino x2
5) termi squad for CC
6) LR

ta-da!
the trick with 1500 pts GK is that yoyu need to straem line

2000pts lets you have 'reserve units' not in 1500 only take nemisis weapons if you NEED them
dont master craft
dont buy useless stuff
and you cant leafblower , think prioritize the enemy and kill them systimatically!
save points : dont buy a rhino deepstrike and buy servo skulls!
and DONT USE PALADINS (hey to save 15 pts!) and try to change the purifiers to SS

-fuzz

p.s. my 1500 list is something like

libby
mordak (+a few ghosties)
3 termi squads
1 SS
LR
use mordak to DS the libby in turn 1 then use the libby to summon the CC LR into the enemy and charge out the LR!

hurhur hur

[C.of.N.finity]

Remember that the warding staff only works against close combat attacks, not shots. And yeah, I think they're a little too expensive for that.

I suppose, by that logic, an apothocary for paladins isn't worth it either?

...Man, I'd been reading that warding stave completly wrong. I think I'll still use it for my purifiers though. So, GK, an elite army, even more so than SM don't have access to a single invunerable save against ranged? not a single storm shield?

[Bean]

I suppose, by that logic, an apothocary for paladins isn't worth it either?

...Man, I'd been reading that warding stave completly wrong. I think I'll still use it for my purifiers though. So, GK, an elite army, even more so than SM don't have access to a single invunerable save against ranged? not a single storm shield?

I don't really like the Apothecary, no. I know some people do, and I know some people like the warding staff for paladins (save them from a power-fist or two, it seems like it can be worth it, but I'd rather just bring a couple of swords.)

And yeah--no access to good invulnerables against ranged attacks. What they do have is Shrouding and Draigo--who carries a storm shield, has Eternal Warrior, and four wounds and can suck up lascannon shots like there's no tomorrow. Draigo is the army's stormshield, and that basically makes him worth it.

[C.of.N.finity]

I don't really like the Apothecary, no. I know some people do, and I know some people like the warding staff for paladins (save them from a power-fist or two, it seems like it can be worth it, but I'd rather just bring a couple of swords.)

And yeah--no access to good invulnerables against ranged attacks. What they do have is Shrouding and Draigo--who carries a storm shield, has Eternal Warrior, and four wounds and can suck up lascannon shots like there's no tomorrow. Draigo is the army's stormshield, and that basically makes him worth it.

lol, I never thought of Draigo like that. A little expensive for that utility though isn't he? Which I need to ask as well, are Paladins really that good? I mean, better than just taking normal termies and having more bodies?

In a 1500pt list, which is the better HQ (assuming you can only choose one do to point imitations), a libririan or Draigo? I ask about the Libririan becuase bassicly (assuming they have cover) Shrouding can make a unit act as if they had storm shields so seems really useful and full of utility whereas Draigo seems good for paladins but can get just as beaty a model if I build my own GM?

[Bean]

lol, I never thought of Draigo like that. A little expensive for that utility though isn't he? Which I need to ask as well, are Paladins really that good? I mean, better than just taking normal termies and having more bodies?

In a 1500pt list, which is the better HQ (assuming you can only choose one do to point imitations), a libririan or Draigo? I ask about the Libririan becuase bassicly (assuming they have cover) Shrouding can make a unit act as if they had storm shields so seems really useful and full of utility whereas Draigo seems good for paladins but can get just as beaty a model if I build my own GM?


Honestly, I think Draigo is reasonably priced. It's hard to compare, because you just can't build a GM that even really comes close to Draigo in terms of damage output or toughness. But yes--I think that 100 points isn't way out of line for how much tougher and more dangerous than a regular GM he is--or how much tougher he makes that squad of paladins. In terms of toughness, I really think that he does more for the unit than an Apothecary does. And, of course, no: your custom GM will never really even be close to as beaty as Draigo--extra strength and toughness and attack is hard to match.

The GM's main advantage over Draigo is that he can bring a psycannon. If you're not bringing a Psycannon, honestly, you should be playing a Librarian. Your

The Librarian is good--using one for your HQ instead of Draigo is probably the best argument for GKT over Paladins.

In terms of the rest of the comparison, remember that Paladins bring fewer models per point than GKT, but both more psycannons and more wounds.

Anyway, GKT are just fine. If you're leery of Draigo or Paladins, I don't think you'd be hurting yourself much if at all by going with GKT and a libby instead. I just happen to like Draigo and Paladins.

Both, I think, are a little better than Deathwing (though only a little) and both are much better than the other options you seemed to be considering.

[Denied]

Okay ... C, I am not sure where you are getting your advice/ information, but Grey Knights can be very effective in many ways at 1500pts and defiantly without henchmen units / Coteaz.

imo things to prioritize in non-hench builds:

1) Psycannons
2) Psyfile Dreads
3) Daemon Hammers
4) Halbreds

My personal builds tend to utilize purifiers to meet a lot of these needs. This means you will need to have Crowe and the problems that come along with a non- IC as bad as Crowe. The way I tend to do this is get a Purgation squad of 5 with 4 psycannons and a sword on the Justicar, give them a Rhino but don't load them in it. Have Crowe use their Rhino, during deployment you can't instantly load him in it, but you can have him standing next to it and jump in on turn 1. Then he hides in his armor transport the Purgation squad hunkers down completely in cover (ie not target-able) and blast the hell out of things in a 24" bubble.

Since the Purgation squad eats up a heavy support slot but wins out in priorities (more psycannons) you will only have room for 2 Psyfile dreads. Now with the points left try to buy as many purifier squads as possible; each squad should have a daemon hammer, 2 psycannons, then halbreds, and pop them all in a rhino. You should be able to get 2x 10man squads and 1x 6man squad.

This overall build gives you 10x psycannons (4 of which should be hidden from most forms of ranged attacks), 2 x Psifle Dreads (8x str 8 twin-linked autocannon shots mmmm), 3 Daemon hammers, and 17x I6 nemesis force weapons...... plus one really bad mini nuke (Crowe). I don't know about you, but this seems competitive for me :-P

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Paladins are worth it, so very worth it. They have been the bane of so many competitors now, they just barrel forwards soaking up wounds, by the time you have responded in kind firing-wise and taken out huge chunks of enemy combatants/vehicles with disciplined Storm bolter fire (I.E. prioritising targets in order of lethality), the Paladins will then carve a bloody swathe through mostly any enemy. In the my past three games, Darigo and Paladins have offed Incubi, Blood Brides, Chaos Terminators and Abaddon the Despoiler, Striking Scorpions, Harlequins, Wraithguard, Wraithlords - they are absolute beasts. Plus the added psycannon choices are great. I pretty much like playing at 3500 - 4000 points (I only play bi-weekly and won't be getting a game for well over a month now), so it's easier to take them I guess, but if you want an uberunit of certain doom for most things, these guys take some beating. Draigo is one of the best HQs in the game IMO