Dark Eldar 2000 pts. Undefeated!

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

So this is what I have been rolling with lately and have had great success. Now granted I have only played 3 games but I found it to be extremly deadly and versatile.

HQ
Baron
Duke

Troops
10 wyches, 2 hydra gauntlets Hekatrix-agoniser PGL HayNades
raider FF

2nd squad of the Same

20 Warriors 2 DL's

10 Hellions , helliarch-PGL agonizer

Elites

8 Incubi-Klaivex
Raider FF

10 Mandrakes NightFiend

Heavy

Ravager FF X2

Razorwing FF 2 MonoMissiles 2 Necrotoxin

This is excatly 2000 points. I might have forgot a thing or two (typed from memory) but you get the gist.

I'm thinking of dropping the Haywire grenades on wyches. I know i have been a advocate of the grenades on past posts(my apologies Cheese!)but in three games i have only used them once on a immoblised and weaponless defiler just for the kill point which i didnt need for the win anyway( i won 10-7).

Comments and criticism welcome

[Orminah]

Nightshields are great. Believe it or not, they can more often than not save your vehicles from fire-y doom. I've had some melta guns be out of melta range and roll 1s. =D

The whole thing is gonna be about positioning, but, it can pay off big.

[DrLove42]

I guestion the need for PGL on the Wyches. They get grenades anyway and are high enough Init that assault greandes aren't that important. With the points saved there you could bag a few more hellions

Same goes for Mandrakes...depending on your experience, but i've not really rated them

[thecactusman17]

What is your experience with the Mandrakes? On paper, they seem utterly bad, which is a shame for such awesome models. How/When do they become amazing?

[blackarmchair]

What sort of Opponents have you Played with this list? It looks decent but I would imagine anything with lots of shooting would present a problem. With only 5 vehicles not getting 1st turn would be deadly. I guess I'm just wondering how you use the lost and what armies you have played against.

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

the games i have played

1- Bloodangels with assualt squad and rhino spam- basically he had like six rhinos and six assualt squads. I basically pick them apart one by one. this was capture and control. i flew circles around him and kept his main force busy while claiming his objective and holding mine

2- space wolves with logan wing- this game was a slaughter, bad tactics and manuvering by my oppenent so my incubi just shredded terminators by the handful. it was objectives but i table him top of turn 4

3-Chaos space marines- this game was the best so far. I rolled horribly the whole game and lost almost all my foot soldiers, but thanks to all my darklances i was able to kill all his vehicles. he had two squads of plague marines. squad of ksons, vindicator, defiler,khorne bikers , demon prince and greater demon, landraider and typhus
mandrakes are a awesome throw away unit to distract or stall enemy advance. I usually infiltrate them in cover. then pick on something small or slow down something big. they usually die but serve their purpose well. used with a combined assualt with wyches or hellions and get the pain token they become really awesome. i try to combine assualt them with wyches or hellions and when they start getting pain tokens they become nigh unstoppable.

[TheRise]

Nightfiend is a waste on the Mandrakes. The PGL's are pretty much a waste. Especialy on the Whyches as they ahve the Haywire Grenades.
The Incubi are useful. but as soon as they assault they ahve won, and are vunerable to fire in the opponents turn. So I would consider splitting the unit up into two. So they will last two turns, so in your turn you can assault again or move into cover. Or multi assaulting two enemy units.

[Cheese]

It's nice to see that someone else finally see's what I mean about the 'nades :D

TheRise, I'll agree that the PGL is wasted on the Wyches because they come with assault grenades stock, if that's what you meant by Haywire Grenades. If you meant Haywire Grenades, they don't affect the Wyches in combat against troops at all.

The PGL on the Hellions is also not necessary if they're running with the Baron. Otherwise I'd say they're must have.

On the Razorwing, the Necrotoxin Missiles are nearly pointless. Think about the infantry you are (or at least should be) firing at. None of it is (or should be) T5+, so you're wounding them on 2's anyway and you have the ability to cut through the armour of horde armies like Orks and 'Nids, which can make quite a difference considering how many hits a well placed Large Blast can get.

I'd drop the Mandrakes down to 8 and drop the Klaivex on the Incubi so that you can get some more hellions. In some games they really don't last long enough to do the damage you'd like, which can be a real shame when you got some nice rolls with your drugs.

[TheRise]

As I said I would definitely split the Incubi up into 2 and take out the Klaivex.
I always, always! take just the Monoscythe missiles on my Razorwing's. I find them a lot more effective than necrotoxins.
As Cheese says you are woundign on 2's anyway and you ahve the Blast Markers which could even (if well placed) hit two units. And you ahve what 4 of them (dex not on me atm soz).
The Warriors I would give Splinter Cannons instead of the Lances. You ahve enough Anti-tank already. You would have 14 Lances with the 2 on the warriors. Which is overkill of Anti-tank. So if yous it your Warriors on an objective you can get 26 poisoned 4+ shots against a unit within 24" and 46 of those shots at a unit within 12".
Also maybe give on of the Ravagers all Disintergrator Cannons for even better anti-infantry. Heavy3 with S5 AP 3 means that a few Big Guys 9liek Big Nids) will be taken down in that turn.

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

ok here's my revised list

duke
baron

20 warriors 2 DL

10 Wyches 2 hydra guantlets, Hekatrix w/agoniser
Raider w/ FF and NS

10 Wyches 2 hydra guantlets, Hekatrix w/agoniser
Raider w/ FF and NS

14 Hellions Helliarch w/Agoniser

8 Incubi
Raider w/ff and NS

9 Mandrakes

Ravager w/FF and NS

Ravager w/FF and NS

Razorwing w/2 Disintigrators, Splinter Cannon and FF

Thats 11 Dark lances. I have had great success with with the 20 warriors and the DL's they get 2-3 pain tokens every game and work great against any flanking enemies. every thing else seems good to me

[Cheese]

I'd ditch the FF drom the Wych Raiders and get another Hellion.

[DrLove42]

As someones doing awesomely with the 20 man warrior unit...and never very good with nightshields...I'd consider dropping the shields (or a man here and there) make up a cheap Hemonculus (venom blade works well) and have him deploy with the warriors, as well as the Duke (who has to obviously)

A 20 man unit, with a cover save and FNP, putting out 2 S8 AP2 shots, 36 3+ poison shots a turn does not get messed with. Then the Duke and the hemonculus can use their poison in CC to deal with anything too tough that tries to kill you. Also the Duke gives them a better Ld so they're less likely to run if they lose

[isotope99]

A couple of questions, that may be silly (if so I apologise)?

Can the baron ride with the incubi or does the skyboard specifically prevent it? PGL and stealth would go quite nicely with these guys if/when they get dumped out of their transport. I know it slows him down but it gives the incubi a big boost.

Can you take haemonculi and 2 HQ slots, I always assumed that the 1-3 haemonculi took up a slot?

[DrLove42]

Can you take haemonculi and 2 HQ slots, I always assumed that the 1-3 haemonculi took up a slot?

No you can't thats my bad....

And yes the baron can be with the incubi...he is an IC. Was going to say not until they get out of the raider, but hes jump infantry..so theoretically could get in a transport.

And by that logic theres nothing stopping Hellions getting into a raider if its empty...no where does it say they can't, just jump infantry count as 2....

So you could fit 5 into someone elses raider (cna't buy their own), have a massive move...raider moves full speed (18"?) then get out 2" and move 12", no fleet, but 6" assault....

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

I have been thinking of dropping the hellions alltogether. with the baron that is 344 pts! I could get a whole squad of incubi with a raider abd still have points! or 2 squads of trueborn in venoms if i drop the mandrakes also. ihave the models except the incubi but i can aquire them i got some money coming. what do you guys think. im running out of FOC slots lol

[DrLove42]

I've never used Hellions, and I dn't see the use in them...They're just fast Wyches at S4...but as I've said i've nevr used them. Same with mandrakes.

If you condsider dropping them, get the Hemonculus I mentioned. Maybe consider some scourges instead? Better saves, just as fast and with the some strong firepower for both AT and anti troops.

[Cheese]

Everyone really needs to stop comparing Hellions to Wyches. They're incredibly different. Wyches sit in CC and tie expensive units up. Hellions do serious damage on the charge and wipe units. If the unit isn't dead by the 2nd round of CC, Hit and Run and try again. Hellions also have one HUGE advantage over Wyches. When you need to you can shoot, and they do a pretty damn good job as well. I'd keep the Hellions because they're more versatile than Incubi, but that's just me.

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

played two more games with new list- ork horde and ork nob biker.

The nob biker list I played the list with two squads of Incubi with Haemons and and a venom full of true born minus the hellions and mandrakes. it was bad for the orks. we played annihilation spearhead and the orks went first.
I hunkered down in the my deployment area and blasted the crap out of him when he shot forward. from that point it was all incubi and wyches. I tabled him bottom of turn five. funny thing is if he had survived he would have crushed me with something like 9 killpoints to 4

Second list was ork hordes. I cant remeber all that he had but it was alot of boys, a battle wagon full of nobs and some lootas and stormboys. now this was a meatgrinder of a game pitched battle with 4 objectives. this game was a draw 2 objectives each but it was a throw down, kick in the teeth bloodbath. I took the hellions and mandrakes but i think the other list would have been better.

In closing I love incubi and technically still undeafted with one draw

Thanks for all the advice

[DrLove42]

Incubi are awesome...most of the time

I had a unit of 4 get into combat with a unit of 3 Tzeentch Flamers (eg WS2, T4, 1 attack each). Took me 2 turns to kill 1. Another 2 to kill the other 2....

[thecactusman17]

No you can't thats my bad....

And yes the baron can be with the incubi...he is an IC. Was going to say not until they get out of the raider, but hes jump infantry..so theoretically could get in a transport.

And by that logic theres nothing stopping Hellions getting into a raider if its empty...no where does it say they can't, just jump infantry count as 2....




BRB, p.66, Transport capacity, paragraph 3:

Only infantry models may embark in transports (it is worth noting that this does not include jump infantry), unless a codex book says otherwise.

So that would be incorrect, Doc.

[DrLove42]

Ah thank you...I always seem to miss little bits....

[thecactusman17]

You pay just over 100 points for the Baron, and you get the only model in the game who can roll a 7. That's a massive advantage for only 105 points.

[Cheese]

You can't roll above a 6 I've been told, so if the Baron rolls a 6 and your opponent rolls a 6, you have to reroll rather than it being a 7. That's what I was told by my GW store manager anyway, but they do somtimes get rules wrong. If he's wrong, I'd certainly be glad.

[thecactusman17]

There is nothing in the rulebook saying that you can't roll higher than a 6. The Baron ALWAYS adds +1 to your die roll for determining who goes first/chooses sides/whatever. It's right there in his codex rules and was not in any way changed or altered by the FAQ.

On a natural 6, the Baron can only ever tie against another Baron.

[Cheese]

That's what I thought originally, although I couldn't be bothered disputing the store manager. I may bring it up next time I'm in though, thanks cactus.

[adamkula]

What is your experience with the Mandrakes? On paper, they seem utterly bad, which is a shame for such awesome models. How/When do they become amazing?

yeah there are quite a few good dark eldar models out there that look nice but on paper ....meh which is annoying

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

took my first loss :(

I got literially spaked by the infamous Grey Knights
He took three three rifleman dread, three squads of Purifier marines, and Draco in Stormraven
it was annihilation spearhead and i went first
he basically castled up in his deployment and shot the piss out of me. he did get lucky rolls and took out my ravagers and razorwing in first turn. It just felt like i couldnt reach him. i learned alot but it was still a tough loss

things i learned:
1) never, never split my forces
2) if i cant reach them in first turn, move flat out
3) rifledreads are friggin mean
4) i need to read the grey knights codex real bad

please let me know if there are anything good tactics to use against the Grey Knights

[DarkLink]

Pray. Grey Knights are practically custom-built for killing DE. Nightshields will help a little bit, but if you sit back and try and shoot you'll get hammered by psyrifle dreads, and if you move forward to either kill dreads or assault then you get hammered by psycannons and storm bolters. And most GK units can beat DE units in CC fairly handily, so yeah...

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

thats not very helpful :)
I think if i didnt split my forces i would have at least had a chance and i went with my original list of hellions and mandrakes. Im definately dropping the mandrakes they suck. and the hellions are ok but i believe a huge point sink like i said before. im going with my revised list from now on im going to post it soon

[DarkLink]

I don't know DE well enough to really offer advice on how to make a good list to beat GKs, but I can tell you what GKs are good at and that I've curb stomped every DE army I've played. I did play more shooty DE armies, though, and the ones that were a bit more CC oriented seemed to do better. I think a group of shooty support units with nightshields backing up fast assault units (aether sails, maybe) to try and get in assault is probably the way to go. Webway Portals might be an option, too, but I've never faced them so I don't really know.