1250 competition DE list

[incenerate101]

HQ
Archon - 60
Agoniser - 20
Combat Drugs - 10
Shadow Field - 30

Archon - 60
Agoniser - 20
Combat Drugs - 10
Shadow Field - 30

Elites
9x Hekatrix Bloodbrides - 117
2x Shardnet Impalers - 20
1x Hydra Gauntlets - 10
x9 Haywire Grenades - 18

9x Hekatrix Bloodbrides - 117
2x Shardnet Impalers - 20
1x Hydra Gauntlets - 10
x9 Haywire Grenades




Troops
10x Kabalite Warriors - 90
1x Dark Lance - 25
1x Blaster - 15

10x Kabalite Warriors - 90
1x Dark Lance - 25
1x Blaster - 15

Fast Attack
x5 Scourges - 110
x2 Haywire Blasters - 20

x5 Scourges - 110
x2 Haywire Blasters - 20

Transports
x2 Raiders - 120
x2 Flicker Fields - 20

Turn one my lances and blasters if they are in range take out light armor while the staying in cover if possible. Turn two scourges deepstrike in as long as i make the reserve roll that is and use thier haywire blasters to stun big guns or blow them up while the raiders deliver the blood brides and start to tear stuff up.

Pretty simple strategy tell me what you think

[Cheese]

AT Warriors tend not to work. They're best used for AI really, otherwise you're wasting points. The Haywire Grenades are also not worth it, I'd drop those.
Don't mix Wych weapons, either take 3 Shardnets or 3 Gauntlets.

[incenerate101]

Why wouldnt you mix Wych weapons? i find 2 sharnets will cover what their main purpose is which is for taking away power weapon attacks/power fist attacks. This way i reduce the power hitters to 1 attack a round and subsequently reduce anyone else in base contact with them to 1 as well. The hydra gauntlets has proven to be the kicker in some of my CC altercations. The extra 2-3 attacks is generally 1 more dead model.

The Haywire Grenades are actually VERY useful. Allows for wychs to take down walkers that come in from drop pod or storm raven or shake a tank enough to destroy it. Think of it this way. If im playing MEQ IG bust the transport and assault the unit keeping a model in base contact with another vehicle. Which most big gunned vehicles dont move ill auto hit and potentially save my other models from being blown away next turn. plus i see nothing wrong with having auto hitting haywire blasters xD

[Cheese]

I'm going to just leave the Granades.

As for the Wych weapons, whats the point in stopping Power Weapons and Fists with wych's? They have an invul save, that's pretty much the entire reason for wyches. As long as you're cutting down as many attacks as you possibly can it's fine. The problem with mixing Wych weapons is that very often 1 of a typre will do very little. In this case, the Gauntlet does not work as well as opposed to 3 of them mainly because of those occasions where you only roll a 1 or 2 for the Gauntlet, you'll still have 2 to try to get 5 or maybe even 6 attacks out of each. Shardnets don't work well alone because you're not stopping enough attacks at all. Razorflails don't work well alone because re-rollin only 1 models to hits and to wounds just doesn't cut it. No matter what the unit size is, if you mix wych weapons, there'll always be one that is alone, and not doing what it could be.

[incenerate101]

Ah Cheese i completely understand that now. Lol thanks for the help and putting up with my hard headness. What is your opinion on the other parts of the list? Like dislike?

[Cheese]

It's no problem.

The rest looks alright, although when you're just taking an Agoniser on your HQ, a Succubus tends to be a better option because they're cheaper and if they fail their 4++ they don't lose it, unlike Archons and they come stock with Combat Drugs. Archons work better if you're taking Huskblades/Soul Traps.

I'm not a fan of Flickerfields, especially on CC units transports. 1st turn you should be turbo-boosting, getting you a 4+ cover save, 2nd turn you're dropping off the Wyches and after that the vehicles job is done. The points could be spent elsewhere.

Warriors are not an AT unit. They should have a Splinter Cannon, not a Dark Lance, but the Blaster is OK. They also need a Transport.

You have too few troops. Personally, I'd drop 1 Archon and change one unit of Bloodbrides to a unit of Wyches, they may not be as amazing in CC, but they are still scoring and they'll save you some points to get Raiders for your Warriors. The other option is to split your Warrior squads and take either 3 or 4 units of 5 Warriors with a Blaster in a Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons.

Finally, try to get a Ravager, if not 2 in your list. You need some more AT, but Warriors are not the way to do it. Raiders will be getting too close and getting gunned down too quickly to efficiently do anything and Scourges with Haywire Blasters will only shut vehicles down for a turn before needing to fire at them again next turn, stopping them from wrecking multiple vehicles. I'd probably even drop an entire Bloodbrides unit and Archon in favour of 2 Ravagers, then spend your leftover points on a smaller killy unit like 5 Incubi in a Venom.

[incenerate101]

HQ
Succubus - 65
Agoniser - 20

Succubus - 65
Agoniser - 20

Haemonculus - 50
Liquifier Gun - 10


Elites
9x Hekatrix Bloodbrides - 117
3x Shardnet Impalers - 30
x9 Haywire Grenades - 16

x9 Wracks - 90
x1 Liquifer Gun - 10


Troops
10x Kabalite Warriors - 90
1x Splinter Cannon - 10
1x Blaster - 15

10x Kabalite Warriors - 90
1x Splinter Cannon
1x Blaster - 15

x9 Wyches - 90
Sharnet Impalers - 10
- Hekatrix - 10
x1 Agoniser - 20



Transports
x3 Raiders - 180
x3 Night Shields - 30

1x Raider - 60
1x Flicker Field - 10
1x Splinter Racks - 10

Heavy Support
1x Ravager - 105

Turn one turbo boost my CC units raiders for the 4+ Cover save while my Ravager and the other raider with warriors move in staying behind cover as best as they can and firing their lances so my CC units can get into combat turn 2.
This one came out at 1250 on the dot!
How does it sound?

[thecactusman17]

HQ
Succubus - 65
Agoniser - 20

Succubus - 65
Agoniser - 20

Haemonculus - 50
Liquifier Gun - 10


Elites
9x Hekatrix Bloodbrides - 117
3x Shardnet Impalers - 30
x9 Haywire Grenades - 16

x9 Wracks - 90
x1 Liquifer Gun - 10


Troops
10x Kabalite Warriors - 90
1x Splinter Cannon - 10
1x Blaster - 15

10x Kabalite Warriors - 90
1x Splinter Cannon
1x Blaster - 15

x9 Wyches - 90
Sharnet Impalers - 10
- Hekatrix - 10
x1 Agoniser - 20



Transports
x3 Raiders - 180
x3 Night Shields - 30

1x Raider - 60
1x Flicker Field - 10
1x Splinter Racks - 10

Heavy Support
1x Ravager - 105

Turn one turbo boost my CC units raiders for the 4+ Cover save while my Ravager and the other raider with warriors move in staying behind cover as best as they can and firing their lances so my CC units can get into combat turn 2.
This one came out at 1250 on the dot!
How does it sound?

Sounds illegal. You have 3 hqs. The haemos take up a full slot, you can just field thee of them within that slot. Otherwise not bad.

[thecactusman17]

HQ
Succubus - 65
Agoniser - 20

Succubus - 65
Agoniser - 20

Haemonculus - 50
Liquifier Gun - 10


Elites
9x Hekatrix Bloodbrides - 117
3x Shardnet Impalers - 30
x9 Haywire Grenades - 16

x9 Wracks - 90
x1 Liquifer Gun - 10


Troops
10x Kabalite Warriors - 90
1x Splinter Cannon - 10
1x Blaster - 15

10x Kabalite Warriors - 90
1x Splinter Cannon
1x Blaster - 15

x9 Wyches - 90
Sharnet Impalers - 10
- Hekatrix - 10
x1 Agoniser - 20



Transports
x3 Raiders - 180
x3 Night Shields - 30

1x Raider - 60
1x Flicker Field - 10
1x Splinter Racks - 10

Heavy Support
1x Ravager - 105

Turn one turbo boost my CC units raiders for the 4+ Cover save while my Ravager and the other raider with warriors move in staying behind cover as best as they can and firing their lances so my CC units can get into combat turn 2.
This one came out at 1250 on the dot!
How does it sound?

Sounds illegal. You have 3 hqs. The haemos take up a full slot, you can just field thee of them within that slot. Otherwise not bad. -edit- take the 60 points, drop a wrack, and put them into another raider if you can. Puts you right back at 1250.

[incenerate101]

i do not believe it is Illegal. Ill double check and if it is indeed illegal i will edit this post and stuffs
it is in fact illegal my bad. Ill have a updated LEGAL list in a few minutes

[incenerate101]

HQ
Succubus - 65
Agoniser - 20

Succubus - 65
Agoniser - 20


Elites
9x Hekatrix Bloodbrides - 117
3x Shardnet Impalers - 30
x9 Haywire Grenades - 16

x10 Wracks - 90
x1 Liquifer Gun - 20


Troops
10x Kabalite Warriors - 90
1x Splinter Cannon - 10
1x Blaster - 15

10x Kabalite Warriors - 90
1x Splinter Cannon
1x Blaster - 15

x9 Wyches - 90
Sharnet Impalers - 10
- Hekatrix - 10
x1 Agoniser - 20

Fast Attack

1x Beast Master - 12
x2 Khymerea - 24



Transports
x3 Raiders - 180
x3 Night Shields - 30

1x Raider - 60
1x Flicker Field - 10
1x Splinter Racks - 10

Heavy Support
1x Ravager - 105

Turn one turbo boost my CC units raiders for the 4+ Cover save while my Ravager and the other raider with warriors move in staying behind cover as best as they can and firing their lances so my CC units can get into combat turn 2.

How does this one sound?

[Cheese]

The list looks better. Unfortunately, the Beast Master Pack isn't going to do much other than die. Really, a minimum squad of them would be 2 Beast Masters, 5 Khymerae, 2 Razorwing Flocks. So just for now, drop those guys until you go to a higher points level where you can fit in a decent unit of them.

If you want to keep the Warcks, drop a Succubus and get that Haemonculus back, sticking him in the unit that Succubus was going to be in. Wyches starting with FNP is quite decent. Otherwise, drop the Wracks and get another Ravager.

[thecactusman17]

Another Ravager could definitely be of use. Your army has some decent anti-tank options already, but they are going to get tossed clean off the board by a decent marine or Guard mech wall.

Of course, don't confuse that statement with saying that Wracks can't be good, reliable units.

I typically don't believe that starting the game with a pain token is as important as starting the game in good position with a strong sense of where and when to strike first. You don't need to remove the Succubi, nor do you desperately need the Haemonculus. By the time these units are going to get attacked, you will probably already have that first pain token thanks to killing a few enemies.

Beastmaster units should never be run as a small unit unless they are coming out of a webway portal, and even then they should go straight into a combat so that they do a small modicum of damage before they die. 5 wyches would do you better here, they each have the 4+ invul in CC, can hold objectives, they can even shoot and benefit from combat drugs. The Khymerae are there to keep a unit alive that is going to get overwhelemd with wounds by anything with an attack. Your average squad leader could probably defeat this squad on their own in CC.

[Cheese]

I'm not saying he needs the Haemonculus and should drop the Succubus, but that if he doesn't do that he should drop the Wracks and take a Ravager. In fact, he should probably drop the Wracks in favour of a Ravager over the other option because the added AT would be far more useful to his list.

[incenerate101]

Only reason the beast master is there is because i took out the homunculus and up'd the 9 man wracks to 10 with 2 liquifiers and had some points left over i didnt know where to put. I like the two succubi decently enough. Roughly i had around 50 points to work with after dropping the homunculus so any suggestions where to put them would be nice!

[Cheese]

Drop the Warcks, take a Ravager and then you've got quite a few more points to spend to get something decent.

[incenerate101]

I play tested my most recent minus the Beast Masters and Haywire Grenades and put in some Reavers. The Reavers got blown up as usual but the list ran VERY well. I was playing Chaos Space Marines. His list was this

Daemon Prince
Demon Weapon
Nurgles Rot
Wings

10 Khorne Bezerkers
aspiring Champion

10 Noise Marines

10 Thousand Suns
Aspiring Sorcerer

Defiler with Reaper Auto Cannon, Havoc Launcher.

and 2 Obliterators ( they were their own separate squads )

I got first turn and 3 Raiders turbo Boosting across the board really caught him off guard. I like how my opponent must prioritize his targets between the 3 of the CC squads. He picked the two Blood Bride squads as his targets he weapon destroyed both of them.
Turn 2 The wracks got out and got an AP 3 and AP 1 Liquifer Gun shots which killed 5 of his berzerkers and the wracks ate them in CC. The Blood Brides and Succubi ate both the Thousand Sons and the Noise Marines.

So i plan on play testing this list a few more times before changing it. I really like it now so we shall see. Thanks Everyone for the help! Ill keep you guys posted on other battle reports ect.

[Velium]

i wouldnt use beating that chaos list as anything to go off of. im not even sure you can take a daemon weapon on a prince or why you'd ever have rot on that prince build instead of warptime. that aside, the defiler is a terrible build so you basically mashed up some poor little billy who was foot slogging over-points MEQ.

put the haywires back in, cut the reavers, put shock prows on the raiders and night shields on the ravagers. the raiders being able to tank shock/ram once they've dumped their cargo is far better than people give it credit for and... the ravagers can engage at 36 so requiring your opponent to (possibly, at least with careful planning) relocate his heavy weapons before being able to engage them is a win.

[Cheese]

Daemon Princes can't take Daemon Weapons, the Defiler build is fail and Thousand Sons are just fail no matter what. On Miniwargaming we have a stickied thread in the Chaos section on why Thousand Sons suck.

Anyway, drop the Reavers and get another Ravager. I don't see where the Haywires could've been of any use there, even against the Defiler, the fastest Walker in the game to my knowledge, he's just too slow and shouldn't be catching you before your 2 Ravagers tear him apart. I'll agree with Raiders Ramming, but it works best if you have maximum range between you and your opponent and you use Enhanced Aethersails. Otherwise you could give it Torment Grenade Launchers and Tank Shock troops off objectives or just away from where you want them.

[incenerate101]

[QUOTE=incenerate101;144202]HQ
Succubus - 65
Agoniser - 20

Succubus - 65
Agoniser - 20


Elites
9x Hekatrix Bloodbrides - 117
3x Shardnet Impalers - 30

x10 Wracks - 90
x1 Liquifer Gun - 20


Troops
10x Kabalite Warriors - 90
1x Splinter Cannon - 10
1x Blaster - 15

10x Kabalite Warriors - 90
1x Splinter Cannon
1x Blaster - 15

x9 Wyches - 90
Sharnet Impalers - 10
- Hekatrix - 10
x1 Agoniser - 20

Fast Attack
x3 Reavers
x1 Heat Lance

Transports
x3 Raiders - 180
x3 Night Shields - 30

1x Raider - 60
1x Flicker Field - 10
1x Splinter Racks - 10

Heavy Support
2x Ravager - 210

This one gets me two ravagers and i keep the reavers for a first turn potential tank top.
Exactley 1250.
Any critiques?

[thecactusman17]

That looks like a solid list, though I'd consider dropping points from the Wracks and putting them into flickerfields for the Ravagers. Are the Wracks in a transport? I am not sure from that list design. It's always a good idea to describe which dedicated transports are for which units in a tournament list, so that you don't have any confusion at the table.

[Cheese]

I'd still reccomend dropping the Reavers so you can get a Raider for which ever unit doesn't have one. But, if you're happy with what you've got then that's fine.

The only change I'd make is instead of dropping Wracks to get the Flickerfields, I'd drop some Night Shields/Flickerfields from the Raiders because they're not as important as the Ravagers.

[incenerate101]

Cactusman there are 4 raiders in the list one is a gun boat for one warrior squad (the one with the splinter Cannon) the other 3 are dumping the wyches, bloodbrides, and wracks ASAP. I hope that provides more clarity here.

[Cheese]

Indeed. Anyway, it all looks pretty decent to me.

[thecactusman17]

Actually, Incinerate, the best way to do it when you hand in your list is to have each dedicated transport listed with the unit you bought it for. This will help your list read easier, and will let your opponent know exactly how your units are designed so there is no confusion over who or what is currently on the table.

[incenerate101]

Oh of course Cactusman This is just the list being thrown together i have to spreadsheet the unit stats and everything so once i get the master copy done everything will be in order.

[incenerate101]

got a few more battle reports for you guys! I played IG and Black Templar yesterday. I won both of these games in annihilation to my surprise lol

Anyway ill start with the IG

company command squad
plasma pistol
4 plasma guns
chimera

marbo

vet squad
plasma pistol
3 meltas
demo charge

platoon command squad
plasma pistol
3 melta guns
chimera

squad 1
auto cannon

squad 2
auto cannon

platoon command squad
missile launcher

squad 1
auto cannons
grenade launcher

squad 2
auto cannons
grenade launcher

vendetta (with vets)

leman russ
heavy bolter
heavy bolter sponsons

leman russ demolisher
heavy flamer
plasma sponsons

With this game i proved to myself that i have a good balance of AT and AI.
The Black Templars was a steam roll for me. I dont know the exact list but he didnt have a Rhino or any kind of transport so his squads were easily assaulted and picked off one by one.

[Cheese]

I'm glad to hear it's performing well for you incinerate :)