Sister announce in WD

[Crevab]

Lower left. Looks like we're getting a half-assed Sisters codex

[eldargal]

Got woken up for this...

The plastic kits better be good to make up for a WD codex.:(

[daboarder]

Got woken up for this...

The plastic kits better be good to make up for a WD codex.:(

I' rather skeptical of this being a fake eldargirl, don't jump the gun just yet.

EDIT: never mind other pictures from inside the White Dwarf have also been posted.....still wont fully believe this till I see it, am I in denial?

[eldargal]

Nope, I just checked Warseer, the chap who posted the picture posted pictures from the Storm of Magic stuff as well, no way he could fake it all. SoM stuff here (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?p=143554#post143554), by the way. Go look, its all fantastic and wonderful.

If the rules are good and the plastic kits are excellent and well prices (not like GKs) I can cope with this. If the rules are poor I won't be very happy. I doubt the models will be poor because Jes Goodwin is supposed to have done them.

Edit: Ok initial grumpiness fading, happy SoB are getting new rules and if the models are as nice as we have been led to believe I'll be buying lots.

[Nabterayl]

What I'm wondering is when the new kits will be released. Will it be in connection with the new codex, or later?

[eldargal]

Good question, given the codex is coming in two parts. I would imagine one wave in August with the first part and one wave in September with the second.

[flekkzo]

Lower left. Looks like we're getting a half-assed Sisters codex

Me, and many many people with me, wanted to see more meat in WD. More rules, added models, new missions, etc. But what we get is replacing an actual codex with 1/8th of the pages in WD. I wanted mini-codex Imperial Fists, not this :(

I wish the powers to be at GW could be as nice and awesome as many of the people working for them. Called up customer support today and got to talk to a really nice guy that without question is replacing my airbubbly Queek Headtaker. Guys like Jes and Phil are obviously awesome from every report I'm hearing. What gives?

That said, if Jes has sculpted some awesome sisters I am getting a box or two to paint. But a GW codex won't be the basis for an army. It will be too thin.

[eldargal]

A codex is 96 pages in general, a WD is about the same. They could easily put a proper sized codex in WD over two issues. Whether they will or not remain to be seen.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

SON OF A -mutter grumble- stupid frakking....-mutter grumble- better get some good frakking models darnit -grumble-

[Dalleron]

Colour me interested. I'd settle for a points and/or rules adjustment rather than a half arsed set of rules.

But in reality, awesome models will only carry an army so far. If the rules for the army blow chunks, who's gonna play it.

[Lockark]

Nope, I just checked Warseer, the chap who posted the picture posted pictures from the Storm of Magic stuff as well, no way he could fake it all. SoM stuff here (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?p=143554#post143554), by the way. Go look, its all fantastic and wonderful.

If the rules are good and the plastic kits are excellent and well prices (not like GKs) I can cope with this. If the rules are poor I won't be very happy. I doubt the models will be poor because Jes Goodwin is supposed to have done them.

Edit: Ok initial grumpiness fading, happy SoB are getting new rules and if the models are as nice as we have been led to believe I'll be buying lots.

I hate to ask this but.... I realy don't remember GW ever releasing new models for a army when they get a WD update. Has GW ever done this?

=|

I'm fully expecting just to see the metal range re-released in fine cast at best.

[Nabterayl]

We've had eyewitnesses (though no pics to my knowledge) of new Sisters models. The reason I'm curious about the range release timing is that, like Grey Knights and Dark Eldar they seem like a good candidate for a total range re-sculpt, and it seems rather soon for GW to have another one of those ready to go.

As to the White Dwarf codex, the only thing I'd lament about that is the potential lack of fluff answering questions I have about the Sororitas. I see no reason to assume the rules in a paperback book and the rules in a magazine will be of different quality.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

We've had eyewitnesses (though no pics to my knowledge) of new Sisters models. The reason I'm curious about the range release timing is that, like Grey Knights and Dark Eldar they seem like a good candidate for a total range re-sculpt, and it seems rather soon for GW to have another one of those ready to go.

As to the White Dwarf codex, the only thing I'd lament about that is the potential lack of fluff answering questions I have about the Sororitas. I see no reason to assume the rules in a paperback book and the rules in a magazine will be of different quality.

Yeah, but it means you have to get both copies of white dwarf to be able to use it, though i admit that may be cheaper than just buying a codex. But codexes are so much more neat.

[BrokenWing]

Maybe the white dwarf will last longer than the 2 weeks it takes all of my codex books to fall apart?

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Maybe the white dwarf will last longer than the 2 weeks it takes all of my codex books to fall apart?

yeah, my tyranid codex is falling apart already and i haven't even played any in person games yet, lol (still building my army)

[Galadren]

I am firmly in the "believe it when I see it" camp. One thing that makes me skeptical is the use of the word "bestiary" in the description. 40k codices don't have "bestiaries." Sisters sure as hell don't.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Sometimes they use the term "bestiary" in supporting material.

I get the sinking feeling that this being a stopgap codex, they'll most likely release Finecast versions of the current sisters range until the codex gets a proper overhaul.

[eldargal]

I don't think it is a stopgap codex, we've had rumours of it being worked on for nearly a year now. What I hope is that this is part of GWs rumoured plan to re-invigorate WD as a hobby magazine, they tested the waters with Spearhead and it was well recieved, now they are going further. I hope so, at any rate. I'd still prefer a real codex but if the quality is there it won't be so bad. The problem with the BA WD codex was that it was a poor effort.

[Image]

I am firmly in the "believe it when I see it" camp. One thing that makes me skeptical is the use of the word "bestiary" in the description. 40k codices don't have "bestiaries." Sisters sure as hell don't.

My thoughts exactly.

Additionally, I really don't suspect sisters will be getting any resculpts to be released with this WD. Finecast models, on the other hand...

Don't get me wrong, I'll be buying those WD issues, even though I'm the type to glance over it once in the LGS and get all I'd need from it. It's just such a shame that this is the direction GW is taking for the Sisters...

[eldargal]

It isn't fake, unless you think he faked these too:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=112218&d=1307752678
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=112220&d=1307752678

I suppose these might be real and the back page fake, but why go to that sort of effort?

[Lockark]

I don't think it is a stopgap codex, we've had rumours of it being worked on for nearly a year now. What I hope is that this is part of GWs rumoured plan to re-invigorate WD as a hobby magazine, they tested the waters with Spearhead and it was well recieved, now they are going further. I hope so, at any rate. I'd still prefer a real codex but if the quality is there it won't be so bad. The problem with the BA WD codex was that it was a poor effort.

So wait. They were going on about how fantsey is meant to be the "high quaility" range, meant for the vet gamers. (Thus the hard cover army books.)


What dose that now say about 40k if they codexs are now comping out in white dwarf articles?

O.o

Conflicting PR much?


Edit: (On another note. sexy looking pics of the upcoming storm of magic stuff!)

[eldargal]

It is odd certainly, especially since we were told there would be no more WD codices. It could be they are trying to rush through new books for the last remaining 3rd ed codices so they can get 6th ed out next year in time for the 25th anniversary of 40k.

It could also be they realise 40k is their most popular range and that the fanbase are devoted enough to take a WD book on the chin.

There are a couple more SoM picture pages in the Fantasy Rumours section, go check them out. Muchly pretty.

[Image]

I'm not suggesting the WD release of the sisters is fake, but that getting new plastic sculpts with a WD release is wishful thinking. I would love to be proven wrong, but I just don't think a WD army will have the pull to help market a new model range.

[eldargal]

Far too many reliable sources have spoken about SoB miniatures for them not to be on the way. Ghost21, Harry, Hastings, Stickmonkey, StraightSilver spoke to Jes Goodwin about them etc. If they are putting out a WD codex they may as well put models out at the same time, why keep them for who knows how many more years 'til they get a real codex?

[Image]

Far too many reliable sources have spoken about SoB miniatures for them not to be on the way. Ghost21, Harry, Hastings, Stickmonkey, StraightSilver spoke to Jes Goodwin about them etc. If they are putting out a WD codex they may as well put models out at the same time, why keep them for who knows how many more years 'til they get a real codex?

Dark Eldar is my only reply to that. Didn't they have the range done for a long period of time before releasing them with their codex?

Honestly, it's just smart marketing to get players excited about a release with full-blown rules/models. I criticize GW for this approach as it does lead to spiky sales, but given the general disappointment that the WD BA army saw, I think it's questionable for them to have lackluster hype on what I'm sure are gorgeous models.

I mean, we all know GW makes their money on the models so why bother releasing codexes at all when they can be more easily inserted into an issue of WD? I'm sure it's simply a rush job, but given the overhaul that the sisters line needs, I just think it would be smarter for them to align that with a full codex to develop greater excitement in these new models. I'll be happy with a new range, but I'm sure it's going to instead be delivered in order to process the sale of finecast sisters models, not entirely new plastic kits.

[Cyberscape7]

GW... If you're going to release sisters instead of necrons at least do it properly...

[eldargal]

Not really, no, they were being worked on for a long time and underwent several revisions, the models atleast. But we also know the DE codex came last, and we know from several reliable rumourmongers that work on the SoB book commenced shorlty after work on the Grey Knights book. So no reason to assume it is anything but a full release.

[DarkLink]

I might have to grab the two leftover metal sisters at my lgs. 60 sisters, 10 seraphim and some rhinos is a decent backup army to my gks.

[DrLove42]

And in other news Mellissa has just bought a handgun and a one way to ticket to Nottingham...

This seems a bad idea to me. BA could get away with it when they were a WD released army...because they were basically (at the time) Space Marines, with a few different units and changes.

Sisters are a whole other being.

[eldargal]

I agree, but it really depends how it is done. If they do it properly, as in a full 96 page codex split over two or three issues of WD, with well written fluff and rules, then that is great. Though I'd still prefer it in a proper book. But if they go down the BA route of just a few minor changes over, what, 20 pages then that is not acceptable quality.

Of course, if this is just a stopgap codex, then it makes MORE sense to have new plastic kits out now, as SoB are the only remaining all metal army. Put out a good, plastic range with some decent rules on the cheap in WD then put out a proper book later in 6th edition or something.

[Wildeybeast]

WTF!? When GW has done so much work in the last 12 months to improve the quality and content of codexes and army books they do this? They may as well just have the front cover of that WD being a picture of them taking the sisters range and dumping it in the bin, to make it clear exactly what they think of them. I've been a stauch defender of GW through the recent pricing and finecast debate but this is a spectacularly bad move.

Who in their right mind at GW thinks that Sisters players are going to be happy about having to carry around and flick through one or even two copies of WD to find their rules. This is a purely commercial decision, designed to bring new palyers to the sisters by them going 'well I already have the rules and don't need a codex, so I might as well buy some of the models'. It may bring them new players, but it is insulting to exisiting sisters players (and I'm not one of them btw). Poor GW, very poor indeed.

[isotope99]

Not defending a WD codex lite (unless it really is just a stop-gap to update the henchmen choices) but I'd think they'll release it pdf shortly after. Pretty sure they did that with blood angels.

[FlangeNabber]

Look I realize this isn't going to be the fancy new codex we all want and I'm the first to admit the sisters deserve better but honestly can it be any worse than using the old codex?

Most of the posts seem to be focused on the negative aspects but hey, sisters are getting some new rules and probably some awesome new plastic models:D

At the end of the day can it really be any worse than the current situation?

[mysterex]

Look I realize this isn't going to be the fancy new codex we all want and I'm the first to admit the sisters deserve better but honestly can it be any worse than using the old codex?

Most of the posts seem to be focused on the negative aspects but hey, sisters are getting some new rules and probably some awesome new plastic models:D

At the end of the day can it really be any worse than the current situation?

Agree - even just bringing the vehicle costs in line with modern codicii would be a step forward.

[GrenAcid]

Look I realize this isn't going to be the fancy new codex we all want and I'm the first to admit the sisters deserve better but honestly can it be any worse than using the old codex?

Most of the posts seem to be focused on the negative aspects but hey, sisters are getting some new rules and probably some awesome new plastic models:D

At the end of the day can it really be any worse than the current situation?

+1 on that.

[Firebird]

Something is better then nothing!! Hell would you prefer to be like the Dark Eldar and get nothing for 11+ years?!?!

[Hive Mind]

Loud noises!!!

[Parcival]

Whie I don't really care about SoB, I can say something about WD Codices as a BA player:


The best thing about a WD Codex is the free PDF download.
You can put the PDF into Google Documents and also do your army lists there - wherever you go, it's in the cloud and follows you.
WD Codices were great if GW took the oportunity to update them more often. The BA PDF Codex had blatant errors like no doors on Rhinos throughout its entire existence. GW was so nice to update the PDF for 5th Edition, but they failed to iron out errors like this one.
The BA had the PDF Codex for three years, so don't necessarily take the release of another PDF Codex as a sign for a real Codex to follow soon.

[Poncho160]

I'm personally thinking there is something a bit off about these new pictures from this months WD.

Mainly, how has this guy got his issue of WD so early? And why does he appear to be the only person on the planet to have it?

I'm not saying they are fake, but a brand new poster pops up on Warseer, with pics from a WD that shouldnt be released for about 2 weeks, could he be a GW plant? Probably not, but could explain the above.

[Alex Knight]

So tossing in my two thrones:

- WD for SoBs as a stop-gap makes sense. Assassins, Karamazov on his Throne of Porcelain... err... Judgement and Inquisitor Henchmen are all in the new GK Codex and have different rules than the Witch Hunters book. And Witch Hunters are the only Codex left with the allies rules. By putting out a SoB Mini-Dex you obsolete the old Witch Hunter book, thus getting rid of the allies rules once and for all.

- With the Finecast decision, the question of what to do with Sisters come up. If you know that you don't have a full Codex ready but you do have the miniatures ready, do you release the old models in Finecast - knowing that you're spending the money on molds and packaging for a short-term release, or do you release the new plastics? Well, if you're going to release the new plastics, players are going to expect rules with them.

[Spacewolflars]

Well, it's not a full on codex. But at least they are redoing sisters with (hopefully) a few years to go before a new edition of rules is released. Looking at the history I don't think the ink was dry on the 2nd edition codex before 3rd edition was released. How long was it between the release of the current codex and the new edition. I don't think that they even bothered for 4th edition.

[MrGiggles]

Well, the Witch Hunters book is certainly showing its age at this point, especially in the point cost department.

I'm not exactly enamoured with the idea of haveing to flip through two magazines for my Codex, but if the other chunk of the rumour (GW making the Codex available online later this year) pans out, then that will only be temporary.

I'm willing to wait and see what they come up with. If it's good, then I don't really have a huge issue. If it's not, well, the boards will still be here and we can gripe then.

In terms of new models, I'll admit that would be nice, but I've enough of a backlog of stuff to paint that I'm a way off from worrying on it.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Wel going by some here, let's see GW bring out 6th Ed, we all know that SM's get treated better, then maybe Orks, IG Eldar and probably latter..oh year we forgot the Necrons and SoB again. Oh well they can wait to the end again.

Why bring out GK's and DE codex's and the do a miserable fail with a WD release?? Be sure to be seeing Necrons get shafted too now. They won't bring the Necrons out in a codex either going by this.
So next year we see 6th ed..woopee do dah. Just make us all buy a new rulebook, more SM's and maybe just maybe get SoB and Necrons three editions too late.

Seriously if this is real, im going to be seriously crappy with GW from now on. I think i will go visit them next tuesday here (mondays a public holiday here). Just an update i can live with, a crappy WD codex, i'd rather stick with what i have. Atleast that is a codex.
Sure love to see new plastic miniatures, some Finecast too. But what we want is a codex. Not a WD minidex.
Good to see if this is true GW are a bunch of lyers.

[Lexington]

Wow, this is weird and interesting. I don't think a WD-based Codex/Army Book has ever gotten a full miniatures range to go along with it, especially considering how extensive a Sisters revamp would have to be. Curious what they'll do once these two issues are out of print. Maybe they'll finally test the waters for electronic Codex releases?


By putting out a SoB Mini-Dex you obsolete the old Witch Hunter book, thus getting rid of the allies rules once and for all.
Boo. :( I like Allies, and don't see why everyone's so glad to see them gone. Just because there were issues with specific implementations doesn't mean the idea's bad.

[s_harrington]

Storm of Magic pics look 'To Good To Be True'

As an aside, thanks for taking the time to relate these pics over to us. Saves me from having to use google-fu and a prayer to find them.

[ikew]

WD release makes sense to me. My guess is we'll see new SoB models in the 6th ed. box, followed (relatively) shortly by a book codex release with additional new models.

[Alex Knight]

Wow, this is weird and interesting. I don't think a WD-based Codex/Army Book has ever gotten a full miniatures range to go along with it, especially considering how extensive a Sisters revamp would have to be. Curious what they'll do once these two issues are out of print. Maybe they'll finally test the waters for electronic Codex releases?

They'll make it available for download, just like the Blood Angels White Dwarf was, before Ward monkey-spanked all over it.


Boo. :( I like Allies, and don't see why everyone's so glad to see them gone. Just because there were issues with specific implementations doesn't mean the idea's bad.

I don't disagree with you on that at all. I remember back when Allies could be 25% of your army's total points... I think GW wants Allies to be an Apocalypse only thing.

[George Labour]

Here's a thought I had regarding the WD release.

Those who have read the Grey Knights book noticed that a large amount of material specific to the witchhunters codex and shared by both older codices was included in the Grey Knights book. Pretty much everything but inducted allies, and the sisters themselves are in the GK book already.

So what if the WD release is just the sisters part of the book and simply removes the grey knights and puts in the Sororitas? They'd then be able to fit quite a bit of nun specific fluff, rules, and units into a WD article without having to rehash anything.

[Kawauso]

Oh man...my buddy who plays SoB is not gonna be happy when he wakes up this morning. :(

I hope that, somehow, this is actually a half-decent 'codex'.
And that they at least get a kick-*** model wave to blunt the blow.

[dwez]

Whose to say the WD codex isn't just a testing ground to see if they sell? If they do they probably have plenty of content to repackage as a full Codex later down the line just like the Warhammer 40,000 Compendium was a collection of White Dwarf articles. I think it's much better for White Dwarf to have something worthwhile in it's pages than the usual raft of adverts. If it fails they can just bin it off and go with anothe true Codex upgrade further down the line.

[Kawauso]

You'd think DE would have been enough of a 'test', if that were the case.

DE proved that they can take an ancient, ugly, unpopular army and turn it around into something fun, functional, and aesthetically pleasing that loads of people want.

Sisters would require less work than that, even.
They're less popular than DE were, but I don't think it would take much to make them at least as popular as other mainstay armies.

[Lemt]

Welp, guess I'll have to buy the next two WDs.

[big.fat.rat]

well, at least wont have to spend any extra money for codex... regarding the pictures, the WD is printed in Poland near Warsaw, friend of my is employed there, but believe me or not its impossible to take a picture as the factory is loaded with cameras and supervisors are like ****s in holocaust camps... , if you get caught redhended then is bye bye job... i had some pre-prints (pdf scans of wd magazines) for Skaven before they where issued to the public in WD, but the guy who give me ask me not to share with as it might create problems for him and the company and it might end up with them loosing contract for WD... anyway, i can confirm that these picture for warhammer battle magic are real.i will try to get in touch with him regarding the SoB.

[Lancel]

Does seem weird, but if it were fake someone is going to an awful lot of trouble to troll the Sisters.

At this point though I'd say it's going to be a White Dwarf codex with Sisters plastic coming out by the end fo the year. Necrons will still get their full Codex and release. GW maybe just didn't want to sink money into updating every old army, and Sisters just got cut from a full release pending seeing how these releases did.

So Sisters codex over the next two WD issues, and either Sisters figure release in August/September or Necron release in August/September with the other getting released in November. There's definitely going to be Sisters figures though.

I'm still hoping it's just a stop gap measure, but this still means that a real codex is 2+ years off. I just hope they don't ignore fluff and give something, but I'm not expecting much fluff wise. Big hope is just for good rules, but if the rumors of nerfed Faith rules are true, I don't think that's going to make a lot of Sisters players happy. To me that was pretty much the whole reason Sisters could be competitive.

[Spy_Smasher]

So what number will this first issue be? In the US, in case there are different numbering systems.

[Anggul]

To be honest, the current Witch Hunter codex is actually pretty good, I think the main reason hardly anyone plays them is because they're extortionately expensive. New plastic kits should fix this, so unless the white dwarf codex is worse than the current one, it should be okay.

[Lemt]

To be honest, the current Witch Hunter codex is actually pretty good, I think the main reason hardly anyone plays them is because they're extortionately expensive. New plastic kits should fix this, so unless the white dwarf codex is worse than the current one, it should be okay.

They could use more options however, you're currently pretty limited on what you can play.

[bfmusashi]

I hate to ask this but.... I realy don't remember GW ever releasing new models for a army when they get a WD update. Has GW ever done this?

=|

I'm fully expecting just to see the metal range re-released in fine cast at best.

Choas Dwarves, but that was ages ago.

[LeeLoo]

I've got lot's a girls ready to play... Just waiting for a good rules set (was so disappointed with GK's) - I'm fine with a PDF. I would certainly buy some of the new JG-designed models so long as they are not Finecast - I will never spend a dime on any of that crap!

[RogueGarou]

Good question, given the codex is coming in two parts. I would imagine one wave in August with the first part and one wave in September with the second.

Sadly, I do not recall any new minis or kits releasing with the Blood Angels White Dwarf "codex". If anything, I would expect to see the Sisters in Finecast, which does not really bother me. I have not updated my Sisters since they came out in Second Edition. I just used some allies to bulk out the army since I was not a fan of the new at the time codex and just have not had much incentive to pick up the new units. Getting stuff in something besides metal might be nice but I would bet that the minis will be even more expensive now. We'll just have to wait and see.

That is how the Blood Angels "codex" in White Dwarf came out, also. First month was fluff, second month was the army list. We remember how well that turned out. They could devote a lot of the 40k pages to the Sisters codex but they will not is my guess. And as popular as the Blood Angels White Dwarf "codex" was, I do not have much hope for this one being any good, either.

Anyone know who is writing it?

Also, anyone remember a bit over a year ago when Jervis, maybe it was someone else I remember several people at different times saying how much they did not want to put rules in WD anymore, said there would not be another WD "codex"?

[Lancel]

I'm really hoping it's not going to be a simple Finecast re-release. We've heard indications that the plastic Sisters have had some serious progress made in the last six months, and the latest tidbit implies they're close to manufacture. I could reasonably see the plastic Sisters coming out by the end of the year if the rumors are true. There's the cost in converting and manufacturing in Finecast and it just doesn't like that would be terribly profitable. Not if they're going to plastic release them in only six months. On the other hand selling off all the metal sisters (which GW no longer uses, thus no reason to melt them down) then releasing plastics might be cynical enough to be believable.

Either that or the plastic sisters are going to sit around for a while and wait for the physical codex, which probably won't be out until 6th edition. Again, I'm just hoping they put the plastics down and update the model range, which to me would make this acceptable though disappointing that it's not a full codex. If it's just rules and Finecast, it really looks pretty bad to an outside observer. Honestly it would look like they only did it because the rules were conflicting with the other armies, notably allies and inquisitorial forces, and just threw this together. But I still really think that just conflicts with other rumors.

@RogueGarou
BoK reported Cruddace has written the WD Sisters Codex.

[steeldragon]

I can see a WD codex and a single plastic release... 5 sisters in a plastic box with a melta, flamer, heavy bolter, heavy flamer, multimelta and add ons for a sister superior and you have almost everything you need to cover all sisters but Seraphims. The rest can do with Finecast and they'll eventually get a proper release with plastic Seraphims, Penitent engines and some other stuff.

[Kawauso]

5 sisters in a box? No way...it would have to be 10.

They're not a small elite army. A basic unit of sisters can go up to 20 models.

[CouchViking]

Wahoooo!!! More skulls for the skull throne!!!!!!

[Thornblood]

I recon what we have here, is somethings similar to the Blood Angels WD trial run. With no new models, but probably a hoo-har about the old ones now being in resin. I would like there to be new models, but im not going to get my hopes up.

I would love WD to come with a mini dex- the size of the black reach rulebook (A5 then) with every issue. Maybe a character model released into the collectors range, but a dex mostly for adding some depth and scope to armies that already exist. So an Alpha Legion dex whioch is only a few marines leading cultists and traitor guard. Or a Genestealer cult list. Or Eldar Exodites. Tau colonial army (humans led by ethereal and just a few tau). Just fluff stuff rescued from time or the pages of novels we love. For fantasy Norse, Dogs of War, Marienburg, Chaos Dwarfs (although I think FW is on that), Kislev, skink southlands lists etc...

Lastly There will never be an Imperial Fists, Ultramarine, Salamander, Iron Hands or Ravenguard codex. Someone has to be codex marines. Sorry.

[HsojVvad]

I am so saddened with some of the comments here. My god, "I have to flip through 2 issues of WD to get the Sisters of Battle rules."

Wow just Wow, I guess that is so bad. Heaven forbid you actually have to cut some pages out and put them together. Even if you don't want to cut up your issues, I think there is worse than having 2 issues of WD to get a SoB codex.

Come on you can't think of anything else?

As for thinking it will be bad because BA was bad? Funny how alot of people was able to use the WD of BA perfectly fine. Yes there was complaints, but nobody quit the hobby because of it.

Also there was some BAD codicies as well that were full fledged Codex and not WD. So as long as it's better than Tyranids and Dark Angels I guess nobody can really complain then. I am not saying Tyranids or Dark Angels are bad, ( I only play those 2) but people say they seem to be the worst out there now, so just going by what alot of people say.

If you don't like it, don't use it then. It just seems we have to ****e about what ever GW does these days, no matter what they do, someone will complain about it.

*edit*

Just remembered, who says we have to buy the WD anyways? Just as the BA WD happened, I believe a month later GW released it as a PDF so you don't have to have 2 issues of WD anyways. So what is the argument now then? People will get the WD issue just because they can't wait the month for GW to release it on PDF and will get in on PDF anyways when they have it on WD.

Also this will mean for once or at least twice, there will actually be worth something in a WD magazine that I haven't gotten in over 3 or 4 years now.

[Hive Mind]

Indeed HsojVvad. This forum has become one massive White Whine recently.

[Ssyrie]

How much does a copy of WD cost these days? I'll bet two of them cost less than one codex.

[flekkzo]

I recon what we have here, is somethings similar to the Blood Angels WD trial run. With no new models, but probably a hoo-har about the old ones now being in resin. I would like there to be new models, but im not going to get my hopes up.

I would love WD to come with a mini dex- the size of the black reach rulebook (A5 then) with every issue. Maybe a character model released into the collectors range, but a dex mostly for adding some depth and scope to armies that already exist. So an Alpha Legion dex whioch is only a few marines leading cultists and traitor guard. Or a Genestealer cult list. Or Eldar Exodites. Tau colonial army (humans led by ethereal and just a few tau). Just fluff stuff rescued from time or the pages of novels we love. For fantasy Norse, Dogs of War, Marienburg, Chaos Dwarfs (although I think FW is on that), Kislev, skink southlands lists etc...

Lastly There will never be an Imperial Fists, Ultramarine, Salamander, Iron Hands or Ravenguard codex. Someone has to be codex marines. Sorry.

I was about to say "go apply for a job at GW now!" and then you have to diss a bunch of first founding chapters :) Well, Ultramarines do have a codex, but why not make simple mini-dexes for stuff like chapters, legions (chaos), septs, craftworlds, etc? GW used to in the past, and it would open up way more builds and more variation to our hobby.

[lockedge]

I'm moderately disgruntled. If this is a White Dwarf codex as it seems it will be, the average turnaround for a full paperback codex is usually 3-4 years, and if 6th edition is hot on its trail like I assume it is, then I'm probably looking at a 4 year wait while Necrons, Tau, Spess Mahrines, CSM, Ork, Eldar and IG get done again, as well as various other small independent SM chapters and all that jazz. Would probably get new rules right before 7th. With my luck, these rules will be obsolete by the time 6th comes out.

Though if somehow they're able to push plastic models out around August/September, then it might make up for it a little. I doubt they'll be able to though, and I can see all interest in SoB/WH being stifled by a WD codex release followed by model release 8 months later out of nowhere, with no release cohesion and no marketing power behind it(and if they're bad rules, no player support).

On one hand, I'll have new rules and models in my hands soon enough.
On the other hand, if the rules are terribad I'll probably jump to a fandex, which means no sanctioned tournaments and probably no random games at shops.
On the other other hand, I have enough friends who don't give a crap and would let me fandex it up that it doesn't really matter much.

[eldargal]

The Warhammer stuff is legitimate:

Well now, the Warhammer stuff IS legit. All of it, down to the last detail. The pics show exactly the stuff I know to be released for Storm of Magic.

The 'Last page' with the announcement looks legit, although it puzzled me, because as far as I understood it the announcements for 'next month' were supposed to stop altogether. Also, a page as this one IS easily faked by a medium skilled photoshop user. I don't say it is though. As always, take everything posted here with salt. I dont inted to doubt anyone, but you always got to be suspicious.

Hell of a lot of trouble to go to, making a page which says SoB are out in August on top of that.

Also, plastic character blisters (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showpost.php?p=143816&postcount=59).

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

SOB are not an army I'd collect but I don't particularly like how this army is being handled model or codex-wise from what I've read.

I think Sisters fans deserve better - for one I dislike the idea of a 5-sisters set that makes a load of the units - if anything they should have more visual differences, especially for things like Seraphims and if those share the same kit then I hope ALL the legs arent in those horrid bent-knee poses.

Personally I think normal sisters and repentia should be 10-girl kits (akin to the DE warriors and wyches) a 5-girl kit for specialist type units, another kit 5-girl kit for seraphim(and maybe another unit?) and the remaining one being an all-in-one tank kit. I think that would be much more balanced out and better overall than the rumours of the kits I've been reading about. (As a mini sculptor/game designer I kinda get OCD on these things).

If it's just a placeholder codex of course I guess that's better than nothing. I just hope for the best for Sisters players and their fans - as they are a unique army, the army of the imperial church, basicly - which has a ton of potential for models and backround expansions (hopefully not by ward though lol).

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Also, plastic character blisters (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showpost.php?p=143816&postcount=59).

I've not liked a lot of GW's moves lately - but this is one thing I think is very clever - I bet they were all made on the same sprue and cut into the seperate boxes/kits, I know that's speculation but considering they were all the same sculptor and the cost of one mold for one model would seem unjustified, id guess I'm right.

It's a fantastic way to go for generic HQ's, and with 4 kits in one sprue it's more justifiable. Hell, if this is a test - I hope it works out, imagine if all armies eventually had a set of plastic HQ's like that? i.e. if it was sisters, you'd get 4 generic HQ's ect. Canoness, Repentia Mistress, Seraphim Cannoness (?) or whatever else.

[eldargal]

I agree with both your posts, Mr Xenos, though at least on an aesthetic level the new miniatures are supposed to be gorgeous.

The thought of a Farseer or Autarch with half a dozen extra bits to choose from certainly warms the heart.

HsojVvad, I've waited eight years for the SoB to get a proper codex, now I find out they are getting a White Dwarf codex which have a rather poor track record. Every right to be dissapointed, though I'm still hoping the WD codex will surprise us all and be good.

[Mobynick]

I'm still hoping the WD codex will surprise us all and be good.

I see you are eternally hopeful. GW have done little to inspire you faith and like every other SoB fan, I'm bracing for bitter disapointment....again.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I agree with both your posts, Mr Xenos, though at least on an aesthetic level the new miniatures are supposed to be gorgeous.

Oh indeed, I dont doubt they'll look great with Jes Goodwin's talents - but it's the whole cramming a load of units into one box, and a 5-man one I don't like. The Grey Knights ones didnt seem to have much visual differences between them with the exception of the Inceptors backpacks - and personally I think every unit should have a strong visual difference. I think it can work to some extent, but things like Seraphims and basic-sisters would be better as seperate kits as I laid out in my previous post :)


The thought of a Farseer or Autarch with half a dozen extra bits to choose from certainly warms the heart.

Indeed, it sure opens up a lot of interesting potential ideas, eh? and the thought of a handful of bonus "mini" plastic kits would certainly be something to get excited about and continue the "all-plastic" trend (Which I whole-heartedly agree with!) - I assume if they did go this route then they'd keep named characters to "finecast" which would make sense. I guess if they did test this in 40k - then they'd likely start with space marines of course and probably start doing it with 6th ed.

[Lemt]

I see you are eternally hopeful. GW have done little to inspire you faith and like every other SoB fan, I'm bracing for bitter disapointment....again.

I'm pretty sure Faith is what defines SoB. :p

[Havik110]

5 sisters in a box? No way...it would have to be 10.

They're not a small elite army. A basic unit of sisters can go up to 20 models.

lets hope they lower the cost and bump the limit to 30...Its time for a horde shooting army in power armor :)

[Necron2.0]

This may be a silly question but ....

Can you even play a WD only army in tournament?

[eldargal]

Yes, WD is an official GW publication. Unless they say otherwise it should be legal.

[Loken]

Heck, I want some Sisters model love. I don't even care about a new codex as I think they play fine. But sure, I will take a new codex too! And who cares if it is only a WD codex?

I have always loved my Sisters army, and the only issue I ever had was that it was all metal!

Alec

The Apocalypse Blog

http://apocalypse40k.blogspot.com/ (http://apocalypse40k.blogspot.com/)

[BuFFo]

This may be a silly question but ....

Can you even play a WD only army in tournament?



Okay, going by major tournaments and events over the past decade, and the general track record of WD lists being allowed in events, the answer is a solid no. In general.

Now, there is a difference here... Sisters aren't just a throw away make money off of you for the month army list like Kroot Mercs or Zombie Pirates. Like Blood Angels, Sisters are an established army getting a WD treatment, which will probably be a placeholder until Sisters get a real codex in 5 years. You can probably bet that Sisters will be allowed to be played in tourneys and events jsut fine. They'll eventually get a .PDF army list once the WD stop selling, just like Blood Angels did, and everything will be "official" which is what most modern GW hobbyists want.

So no, you cannot play WD only armies/units in tournaments, unless those armies were Blood Angels or are Sisters of Battle.

[Denzark]

GW GT Throne of Skulls allowed (in fact made compulsory) the pdf DH codex. From what I remember 2 years ago before BA codex the WD bit was fine.

Thats at Warhammer World so some tourney.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

When I first heard about this, I was very depressed. It really doesn't promise to do the Sisters justice. I AM excited that the models sound as if they are brilliant, but I am skeptical that two editions of WD can do a codex justice, and I feel disappointed and a bit let down. I have learnt that I need to wait and see with GW these days though. But obviously they aren't going to get the Dark Eldar style reimagining I was hoping for. Perhaps I'm being unrealistic. It is depressing to think that it'll be another five years until they are treated seriously though. Well, I'm kind of glad that I got Grey Knights instead of holding out for SOB, especially if they give them the Finecast old mold treatment - yeesh...

[dakkadakka12]

A codex is 96 pages in general, a WD is about the same. They could easily put a proper sized codex in WD over two issues. Whether they will or not remain to be seen.


I'd wager that they will have rules separated for individual units, and skip most of the fluff for the army, leaving maybe a paragraph per unit.

tho i have to wonder why put the codex in WD? they could make money just the same with codex, so why put it in a magazine? I know if i play someone and ask to see their codex, and they hand me 2 WD magazines, it will piss me off, having to find which magazine has what unit, and any army wide rules might be in the other magazine...

[miteyheroes]

I think this is great! Finally, some meaty context in White Dwarf. Great stuff.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Still, you have to say there's a little less to grumble at GW for, especially regarding being expensive - they're saving people £11 for a new codex by printing it in WD. I sincerely hope they include a few characters for SOB though - Celestine is all well and good, but SOB fans could do with a few other decent female characters. My biggest worry is that they reproduce a bunch of old models in Finecast - SOB fans at least deserve more than just a multi-tasking plastic kit. I will certainly be asking my newsagent to save the next few issues for me I reckon, to be doubly sure of getting my copies.

[Deadlift]

Do you guys think the codex will come as a supplement so it can be removed from the WD, or will it be printed physically in the magazine ?

[Wildeybeast]

I'd wager that they will have rules separated for individual units, and skip most of the fluff for the army, leaving maybe a paragraph per unit.

tho i have to wonder why put the codex in WD? they could make money just the same with codex, so why put it in a magazine? I know if i play someone and ask to see their codex, and they hand me 2 WD magazines, it will piss me off, having to find which magazine has what unit, and any army wide rules might be in the other magazine...

Strange as it may sound considering they are giving away a codex, to make money. The rules are clearly there and ready, so why not simply release a codex? Answer - to get new Sisters players. People already have the WD and think - well I don't have to shell out for a codex and I like the rules I've read, why not pick up a few models? Exisitng sisters players will but new models anyway, so they won't lose out there (other than really annoying them). Either this is a stop-gap codex or they don't have the confidence in the sisters range to sell and bring in new players the way DE did. I tend to think it is the former, which in itself worries me that we are going to see other rushed codex to try to get them all updated before 6th ed. I guess we'll have to wait and see exactly what is released in a couple of months.

[daboarder]

Curtesy of BoK via warseer

Ok, with that said let us get on with why you are really here some SoB rumors.

As always let us start with the easy ones that pretty much everyone figured was going to happen.

Allies gone
Inquisition gone
Faith streamlined
USRs updated to 5th
Cheaper Unit costs
Inquisition elements gone

So let start with the big one and perhaps most controversial change to Sisters of Battle: Faith

I am amazed reading around the Net how quite few people had great guesses on how the new faith works. One caveat about the faith rules: I only have most of the story so let us hope someone else can pluck the rest from the aether. The only thing that really stays the same is only faith producing units can use faith. Gone is the over and under rules based on model count and gone is faith powers that everyone can use. It is replaced with every unit has its own unit specific act of faith to call upon.

So for instance Repentia Act of Faith allows them to always land an attack even if they are killed before they can swing. They are little bonuses like re-rolling to wound and hit, no USRs. Now this if fine and dandy if you just pop a faith point and bam! power goes off, but not so fast. Acts of Faith require that you roll 5+ to activate . This makes faith much more unreliable… maybe. In addition every unit that can get faith generates 1d6 faith points per turn. This also means that a new faith pool is generated each turn with no storing of past faith. As well faith can be activated in multiple phases of the game, so for instance you can re-roll to hit in your shooting phase or in your assault phase. What is not clear is a few things. Like how many dice can you throw at a single act of faith? How many times can you attempt to activated a power? If you get an act of faith to go off in one phase does it carry over to the next phase? If you fail an act of faith does that mean you cannot try again in another phase? I don’t have the answers, but what do you think?

Random tidbits

All Faith generating units get +6 invul save
All units that can get transports get Immolators or Rhinos
Assassins gone (Death Cult still in)
Wargear with the same names as GK wargear stay and get changed over. (e.g. Psybolt Ammo)
Karamazov gone
Priests in, pretty much same as before.
No change to the general Bolter, Melta, Flame concept of the Sisters

Specifics

Sisters have about 5 HQ choices including Special Characters

St. Celestine: Same price as a Grand Master you get 2+/+4 saves, WS/BS 7 Jump Pack, Fleet, Power Weapons always wounds on 4+ Has the power to come back like GK Thawn if killed.

Confessor: Takes the slot of the old Inquisitors. Cheap HQ (Warboss). Can create a henchman band using most of the henchman found in the GK codex. What makes the Confessor extra deadly is the ability for it to re-roll hits and wounds for her and the squad. This is the translation of the rumor matrix. So think for one second about her and the Death Cult together?

Repentia: Cheaper close to SM cost. FNP, Rage, Fearless, 6+ invul, no transports

Battle Sister Squad: Cheaper 10-20 unit size (no combat squads), but has access to Immolators which begs the question… Immolators either get increased transport capacity or Sisters break the rules concerning model count and buying transports. Multiple acts of faith.

Exocists: Pretty much same as before.

This is it for now gents and dames. If you have any questions let me know I can see if can get them answered sometime this week with another post



EDIT: on a personal note, I think we're seeing GW try something different here, all rumors point to SOB getting a codex before tau with confusion in regards to its placement compared to necrons, I think its possible GW is allowing us to do what we've always cried about....playtest the rules ourselves for 3-4 months before they got to print. I just hope they throw in atleast the basic sisters unit with this release or I'll still be waiting for plastics.

[HsojVvad]

HsojVvad, I've waited eight years for the SoB to get a proper codex, now I find out they are getting a White Dwarf codex which have a rather poor track record. Every right to be dissapointed, though I'm still hoping the WD codex will surprise us all and be good.

I can understand what you are feeling. I am talking mostly about people who are complaining and are not even SoB collectors or players. They seem to be complaining just for complaining sakes. You have a perfectly right to complain.

[Necron2.0]

@miteyheroes

Off topic, but have you ever noticed there's a sister hiding in your Avatar:
http://members.cox.net/necron2.0/img/HiddenSister.jpg

Sorry ... carry on.

[malefice]

can't recall the time gap exactly but the warriors of chaos WD army book preceded the actual release by less than a year

[DarkLink]

The basic rules for sisters dont need a whole lot of change. Seraphim, battle sisters, dominions, retributors and celestians are all viable, they just need a few point tweaks here and there.

The army special rule are similarly pretty good, and just need to be tweaked to fit in better with 5th ed.

Thats an easy core of an army. Add in a few new unique units, and clean up the inquisition/ecclesiarchy stuff, and theres an army for relatively little work.


Hopefully they do a good job of following through with that.

Edit: missed daboarders post. Those faith rules seem just as complicated than before, though i like the unit specific act of faith.

And it would be awesome if this was a playtest codex!

[Lancel]

Edit: Cut the BOK rule rumor, someone beat me to it while I left this up for an hour due to nonsense RL stuff.

Probably most of you have seen it already, but anyway if we take this as is:

Allies gone, as expected.
Inquisition gone, that was expected.
Faith streamlined, after reading the changes? *cough* That actually sounds more complicated.
USRs updated, means Sisters now have the 5th edition Hit and Run rules.
Cheaper unit costs, as expected!
Assassins gone, Death Cult still in, again as expected.

Analysis via the powers of logic:

There is mention that the basic Sisters squad has faith powers, meaning its a faithful unit, further there is effort to note that only faithful units can use faith powers. This means a few things: one, the Sisters are undoubtedly ALL faithful, which means they ALL have a 6++. Interesting. Two, that implies that there are non-faithful units, but with Inquisition gone that leaves very little non-Sisters, which implies new units, perhaps the Frateris and Arbites.

The faith thing I'm going to take a stab at and suggest this as the method:

Roll a D6 for each faithful unit at the start of your turn. That's the number of dice you have (may be limited to the unit, or maybe army wide as it is now).

When activating a faith power, specify the number of dice you want to roll based on your faith point total. If any one die rolls above the target (which is apparently 5+) then it succeeds. This I'm basing on the statement that it's not as reliable.

Simulacrum Imperialis cuts the success roll down to a 4+ for that unit.

If it is like that it wouldn't be that bad, I kinda like the idea of throwing more dice at something to beat the odds, but also of the idea of acts of faith requiring a bit of faith from the player for it to activate, but this is just my theory on it based on what's been said.

I still want to see some changes to Celestians to make them a bit more useful in close combat (I've always hoped for Sarissas standard on all Celestians at least), though I confess most of the rest are fine barring the need for some point changes.

I'm still left wondering why no one has found out if there are going to be new models and when, which is really what the Sisters players want to know. Are we getting plastic kits or finecast reissues or nothing at all?

[DarkLink]

That faith system would be much more complicated than the current one. Right now, it's kinda like a leadership test, but using the current squad size instead of leadership. The only tricky part is remembering what power does what, and how many faith points you have left. It would be ridiculous if you suddenly had to roll for every single unit every turn and keep track of how many points you generated for each and every unit every turn, and then have to do a fantasy-magic style dice roll for your powers or something.

[BrokenWing]

Agreed. They need to be careful with faith points. Back when I saw alot of Sisters of Battle players around here they were famous for cheating. Because they would keep track of their faith points "in their head" and magically never run out.

[daboarder]

OH SURE!! He gets all the credit....Im gonna go sulk

[Force21]

The Faith rules sound a bit like Magic in Fantasy...except you need a die to show a 5+...besides that it sounds pretty good.

Thankfully my brother & I stopped a friend from selling his old army. :D

[Lemt]

EDIT: on a personal note, I think we're seeing GW try something different here, all rumors point to SOB getting a codex before tau with confusion in regards to its placement compared to necrons, I think its possible GW is allowing us to do what we've always cried about....playtest the rules ourselves for 3-4 months before they got to print. I just hope they throw in atleast the basic sisters unit with this release or I'll still be waiting for plastics.

This I could really get behind.

[lockedge]

Curtesy of BoK via warseer

Ok, with that said let us get on with why you are really here some SoB rumors.

As always let us start with the easy ones that pretty much everyone figured was going to happen.

Allies gone
Inquisition gone
Faith streamlined
USRs updated to 5th
Cheaper Unit costs
Inquisition elements gone

So let start with the big one and perhaps most controversial change to Sisters of Battle: Faith

I am amazed reading around the Net how quite few people had great guesses on how the new faith works. One caveat about the faith rules: I only have most of the story so let us hope someone else can pluck the rest from the aether. The only thing that really stays the same is only faith producing units can use faith. Gone is the over and under rules based on model count and gone is faith powers that everyone can use. It is replaced with every unit has its own unit specific act of faith to call upon.

So for instance Repentia Act of Faith allows them to always land an attack even if they are killed before they can swing. They are little bonuses like re-rolling to wound and hit, no USRs. Now this if fine and dandy if you just pop a faith point and bam! power goes off, but not so fast. Acts of Faith require that you roll 5+ to activate . This makes faith much more unreliable… maybe. In addition every unit that can get faith generates 1d6 faith points per turn. This also means that a new faith pool is generated each turn with no storing of past faith. As well faith can be activated in multiple phases of the game, so for instance you can re-roll to hit in your shooting phase or in your assault phase. What is not clear is a few things. Like how many dice can you throw at a single act of faith? How many times can you attempt to activated a power? If you get an act of faith to go off in one phase does it carry over to the next phase? If you fail an act of faith does that mean you cannot try again in another phase? I don’t have the answers, but what do you think?

Random tidbits

All Faith generating units get +6 invul save
All units that can get transports get Immolators or Rhinos
Assassins gone (Death Cult still in)
Wargear with the same names as GK wargear stay and get changed over. (e.g. Psybolt Ammo)
Karamazov gone
Priests in, pretty much same as before.
No change to the general Bolter, Melta, Flame concept of the Sisters

Specifics

Sisters have about 5 HQ choices including Special Characters

St. Celestine: Same price as a Grand Master you get 2+/+4 saves, WS/BS 7 Jump Pack, Fleet, Power Weapons always wounds on 4+ Has the power to come back like GK Thawn if killed.

Confessor: Takes the slot of the old Inquisitors. Cheap HQ (Warboss). Can create a henchman band using most of the henchman found in the GK codex. What makes the Confessor extra deadly is the ability for it to re-roll hits and wounds for her and the squad. This is the translation of the rumor matrix. So think for one second about her and the Death Cult together?

Repentia: Cheaper close to SM cost. FNP, Rage, Fearless, 6+ invul, no transports

Battle Sister Squad: Cheaper 10-20 unit size (no combat squads), but has access to Immolators which begs the question… Immolators either get increased transport capacity or Sisters break the rules concerning model count and buying transports. Multiple acts of faith.

Exocists: Pretty much same as before.

This is it for now gents and dames. If you have any questions let me know I can see if can get them answered sometime this week with another post



EDIT: on a personal note, I think we're seeing GW try something different here, all rumors point to SOB getting a codex before tau with confusion in regards to its placement compared to necrons, I think its possible GW is allowing us to do what we've always cried about....playtest the rules ourselves for 3-4 months before they got to print. I just hope they throw in atleast the basic sisters unit with this release or I'll still be waiting for plastics.

If those rumours are true, and Faith will run like that....then even with the 6+ invuln given, my sisters' survivability will be cut by at least 1/4. When I play, I stock as much Faith points and keep it around for clutch rounds where I need to give a unit or two as much help as they can get. Limiting a unit to a single act of faith would work if you could use it once per round for free, but needing to roll a 5+ on an arbitrary amount of dice? That's just ludicrous. So i get less options and a lower chance of succeeding in rolls unless I toss all my dice at a single roll. Cool.
I'll just have to hope that this rumour is false, because it would work well towards crippling my army.

If Priests are still as bad as before, and Repentia slightly improve and the Arco-flags are as terrible as they are in the GK codex, the Priest could very well be top 3 worst units in 40k, with the Arcos potentially top 8.
So long as Priests aren't required to field units though, I'm fine with it. I'd just be confused as to why they'd include them, they're pretty useless and unless they're re-tooled(or their point cost is cut to 20 or so), they'll continue to be.

Maybe without Inquisition, the Arcos won't even be in my army(nor will my nicely painted Karamazov), to which I'd wonder how the hell will I have a feasible assault squad? Maybe Seraphim will get buffed or something? I don't see Repentia getting good enough to be realistic. No Assault Inquisitors(not that they were good to begin with).

Will be interesting for sure though. I just kind of hope these rumours aren't true for the most part.

[DarkLink]

I'd limit your whining about what faith points do to when we actually know what they do. And 'till when we know what the rest of the army looks like, for that matter. For all we know, sisters are 6ppm instead of 11. I've seen at least one rumor article on the web say they'll be cheaper, though that's just as vague and unconfirmed as anything else right now.

[eldargal]

I like the way the rules are going, if the rumours are accurate. What does worry me is if Sisters get cheaper, and squads stay 10-20, how expensive is an army going to cost if the 5-woman boxes are, say, fifteen-eighteen pounds? That is 60 pounds for a full squad, at 1500 points are current prices you can easily have 60 sisters in an army. If the points drop, you might have 80 at the same price. Then factor in characters, vehicles and other squads it could get mighty expensive for a horde army.

Unless the 5-woman boxes are ten or twelve pounds each, which I wouldn't say is impossible given the plastic characters for eight pounds we are seeing with SoM.

[isotope99]

I like the way the rules are going, if the rumours are accurate. What does worry me is if Sisters get cheaper, and squads stay 10-20, how expensive is an army going to cost if the 5-woman boxes are, say, fifteen-eighteen pounds? That is 60 pounds for a full squad, at 1500 points are current prices you can easily have 60 sisters in an army. If the points drop, you might have 80 at the same price. Then factor in characters, vehicles and other squads it could get mighty expensive for a horde army.

Unless the 5-woman boxes are ten or twelve pounds each, which I wouldn't say is impossible given the plastic characters for eight pounds we are seeing with SoM.

Are the five woman boxed sets separately rumoured or just extrapolated from grey knights?

Setting aside grey knights, pretty much every other 5-"man" set has been for a special troop type, jump, cavalry, terminator etc. so I can only really see this if they include seraphim as well and that feels a little extreme.

I would expect 10 for £23 (similar to a tactical squad) or something in that order with two sets of special/heavy weapons and seraphim to be separate, in line with scourge prices.

If they are a 5 box then, like you say it will cost a huge amount and doubled with a WD dex, they really will have to deliver on the new sculpts.

[eldargal]

Unfortunately that is coming from several sources, the first of which is very reliable. It is also possible the 5 woman squads are Seraphim/Dominion, basic sisters are going Finecast and Repentia (which are rumoured to come in ten women boxes) will be the mainstay troop type (they are now troops apparently).

[isotope99]

Unfortunately that is coming from several sources, the first of which is very reliable. It is also possible the 5 woman squads are Seraphim/Dominion, basic sisters are going Finecast and Repentia (which are rumoured to come in ten women boxes) will be the mainstay troop type (they are now troops apparently).

If repentia get veils instead of gimp masks, I guess I can live with a greater focus in the lists.

[eldargal]

Me too, I actually like the idea of more Repentia running about backed up by a few squads of regular Sisters. So long, as you say, they get decent sculpts that don't look like Necromundan wh*res.

[isotope99]

Me too, I actually like the idea of more Repentia running about backed up by a few squads of regular Sisters. So long, as you say, they get decent sculpts that don't look like Necromundan wh*res.

This is the sort of thing I'd like to see:

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/photopost/data/575/DSC02455.JPG

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

I am a bit miffed I sold all my Sisters (save the Canoness), but excited about it all in honesty. If they did release 5 woman sets of Battle Sisters, I would expect them to be cheaper - if they price them the same as GK, no-one is going to be starting a Sisters army unless they are minted. For those of us who buy discount GW, a nice cheap box of Sisters would be most welcome indeed. Are we likely to see a re-imagining of Celestine? I doubt it, Finecast using old mold I reckon, which is ropey right now (looking forward to sitting in GW opening all their packets of Celestines and finding 1 out of 20 that's any good...), but you never know. The Faith points thing doesn't sound too bad - at least your opponent can keep track as well as you, so less squabbling about them. Do think Exorcist tanks need a bit of an overhaul - I originally thought the organ was sort of cool, but as I've got older I think it is a bit cheesy (and HEAVY!). Some sort of reliquary on tracks would have been cool though.

[HsojVvad]

This is the sort of thing I'd like to see:

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/photopost/data/575/DSC02455.JPG

How do you get an armour save from that? LOL. I guess they use the same T-Shirt material that the IG uses. Poor Tyranids, they haven't adapted to IG T-Shirt armour yet. :p

[eldargal]

I'm a little less worried about pricing now, as I remembered GW sell packs of four Guardians for £5.50, which means five SoB for £9-10 isn't unthinkable. I like that drawing too Isotope99, it would be nice if they did look something like that.

[daboarder]

I'm a little less worried about pricing now, as I remembered GW sell packs of four Guardians for £5.50, which means five SoB for £9-10 isn't unthinkable. I like that drawing too Isotope99, it would be nice if they did look something like that.

Aren't those snap fit ones though?.....

I mean snap fit plastic sisters would still be better than the metals, but still

[eldargal]

Yes but I'm not thinking of the specific miniatures so much as a sprue with 4 models on it for five and a half pounds. Given that GW are producing plastic characters, a five girl SoB box for, say, ten pounds seems a little more likely.

[GrenAcid]

If those rumours are true, and Faith will run like that....then even with the 6+ invuln given, my sisters' survivability will be cut by at least 1/4. When I play, I stock as much Faith points and keep it around for clutch rounds where I need to give a unit or two as much help as they can get. Limiting a unit to a single act of faith would work if you could use it once per round for free, but needing to roll a 5+ on an arbitrary amount of dice? That's just ludicrous. So i get less options and a lower chance of succeeding in rolls unless I toss all my dice at a single roll. Cool.
I'll just have to hope that this rumour is false, because it would work well towards crippling my army.

If Priests are still as bad as before, and Repentia slightly improve and the Arco-flags are as terrible as they are in the GK codex, the Priest could very well be top 3 worst units in 40k, with the Arcos potentially top 8.
So long as Priests aren't required to field units though, I'm fine with it. I'd just be confused as to why they'd include them, they're pretty useless and unless they're re-tooled(or their point cost is cut to 20 or so), they'll continue to be.

Maybe without Inquisition, the Arcos won't even be in my army(nor will my nicely painted Karamazov), to which I'd wonder how the hell will I have a feasible assault squad? Maybe Seraphim will get buffed or something? I don't see Repentia getting good enough to be realistic. No Assault Inquisitors(not that they were good to begin with).

Will be interesting for sure though. I just kind of hope these rumours aren't true for the most part.

That sounds like "omg omg Im afraid of changes"......for me it sounds cool, no risk=no fun, I belive sisters going same way as DE so it gonna be good codex, now all I want is picture of some models. And info if sis has anit psyker shielding??

[lockedge]

That sounds like "omg omg Im afraid of changes"......for me it sounds cool, no risk=no fun, I belive sisters going same way as DE so it gonna be good codex, now all I want is picture of some models. And info if sis has anit psyker shielding??

It's true, I'm mostly afraid of changes because the changes I've seen rumoured haven't had a counterweight in points cost or special abilities to balance it out.
I don't mind risks, really. I play a non-mech WH list, so I usually need to take enough risks in order to stay competitive. I'm just a bit nervous seeing the cornerstone abilities that I've been able to rely on, the only real saving grace my army has to keep them anywhere close to competitiveness, potentially up in the air. Risk without reward isn't a risk worth taking is all I'm getting at. If the rumours are true, I've lost half my army, which isn't the worst possible outcome so long as the plastic models come soon enough for me to be able to field a playable army. And the remains of my army will have to have either less firepower or less survivability. It's just frustrating hearing all this negative stuff without seeing any rumours spilling some good stuff.

I suppose, however, my whining is a bit too heavy so early in, though :P If they're as interesting as the DE were made to be, with a lot of little quirks and refinements then I'll very likely be content. I just would prefer if the SoB/WH stay relatively high risk, they that remain relatively high reward.

[GrenAcid]

I just would prefer if the SoB/WH stay relatively high risk, they that remain relatively high reward. Like that!

Dark Link said basic sister is 6pt, so 10 strong squad is now 60 pt instead of 110, with rhino steamlined to 35pt you should have lots of sisters and faith points per turn, and than again with 4+ roll(thanks to Simulacrum Imperialis) you dont have to worry about passing test then you have not enough sisters in squad eg: when you have left 4 girsl in a squad and want hands of emperor to cast you need roll 4 or less on 2d6, now its 4+ so with 2 dice you have more chance to do it than before.

Have you heard somthing more about celestian squad?? rules/cost??

[Lockark]

If those rumours are true, and Faith will run like that....then even with the 6+ invuln given, my sisters' survivability will be cut by at least 1/4. When I play, I stock as much Faith points and keep it around for clutch rounds where I need to give a unit or two as much help as they can get. Limiting a unit to a single act of faith would work if you could use it once per round for free, but needing to roll a 5+ on an arbitrary amount of dice? That's just ludicrous. So i get less options and a lower chance of succeeding in rolls unless I toss all my dice at a single roll. Cool.
I'll just have to hope that this rumour is false, because it would work well towards crippling my army.


You realize the rumor says a faithfull unit generates D6 Faith points a turn right? As in if you have 6 faithful units, you generate 6D6 faith points for that turn.

The +5 to activate makes alot of sence if your generating faith point every turn. I can see some players really enjoy managing the allocation of faith points every turn.


I suggest looking at the BoK rumor post.
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2011/06/12/network-news-sisters-of-battle-rumors-sunday-edition/

So far BoK still have had a good track record. (Even calling the Sisters being a WD book before anyone eals)

Even if half that stuff is true. sisters are accully looking like a really strong book.

[Lancel]

you should have lots of sisters and faith points per turn, and than again with 4+ roll(thanks to Simulacrum Imperialis)

That was just my guess on it, based on the rumored We'll Be Back changes. It seemed a pretty simple implementation, but it could be something else unless someone confirmed it. Just my theory on it, but I guess it's safe to say we'll still be able to get a Sumulacrum somehow and it'll still make faith powers easier to use.

[lockedge]

You realize the rumor says a faithfull unit generates D6 Faith points a turn right? As in if you have 6 faithful units, you generate 6D6 faith points for that turn.

The +5 to activate makes alot of sence if your generating faith point every turn. I can see some players really enjoy managing the allocation of faith points every turn.


I suggest looking at the BoK rumor post.
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2011/06/12/network-news-sisters-of-battle-rumors-sunday-edition/

So far BoK still have had a good track record. (Even calling the Sisters being a WD book before anyone eals)

Even if half that stuff is true. sisters are accully looking like a really strong book.

I mean, I obviously don't have the codex in front of me, so I can't tell how it plays. All I can do is apply what these rumours are to how the army currently is. IF Sisters drop to 6 points(which is absurdly cheap) then I suppose I could spam sisters and not worry too much about survivability in matches that aren't Killpoint. It's just that I won a lot of games by using numerous faith powers per unit, depending on the situation, and if I'm only able to attach a single faith power per unit, that really screws things up. All the dice in the world won't change that divine guidance is only useful in the shooting phase and that in assault, the sisters are more likely to die outright than strike a power weapon wound against a regular marine equivalent, or enough wounds to make any sort of difference without Hand of the Emperor.

If they go to the arbitrary dice roll business that's ok, whatever. I can take a risk like that, I'm good enough at rationing my points. It's the loss of multiple acts of faith that is a huge blow. If that limitation is removed(or if I've been reading this wrong the whole time), then cool stuff. Otherwise I'll be desperately gunning to table my opponent because there's a good chance I'll otherwise be down a half dozen KP.

[Lockark]

How is rolling a 5+ any more or less arbitary the rolling over or under a squad number?

As or the loss of muti-act of faith. It sounds like each squad will get a act of faith that specifically improves what they normaly do.

All we know is how the mechanic will work, but not not what the new acts of faith will do rule wise. Just that repentia get one that lets them swing even if they die 1st in initiative, and we can assume other Sister's units will get ones to help them, that are related to their roles on the battle field.

[daboarder]

Just to clarify and avoid heartache, Darklink didn't rumor that SOB were 6 pts apiece, he merely suggested that as an example of what we don't know about their point pricing affecting the strength of the army.

[lockedge]

Just to clarify and avoid heartache, Darklink didn't rumor that SOB were 6 pts apiece, he merely suggested that as an example of what we don't know about their point pricing affecting the strength of the army.

Yeah, 6 points is far far too low. Didn't see it as a realistic number, tbh.


How is rolling a 5+ any more or less arbitary the rolling over or under a squad number?

As or the loss of muti-act of faith. It sounds like each squad will get a act of faith that specifically improves what they normaly do.

All we know is how the mechanic will work, but not not what the new acts of faith will do rule wise. Just that repentia get one that lets them swing even if they die 1st in initiative, and we can assume other Sister's units will get ones to help them, that are related to their roles on the battle field.

That's the thing, why change faith's rolling rules when there's no streamlining at all? Before, I'd roll over or under a certain number. With these rules, I have to roll a die, get points, and then roll X more die to see if I can get a 5+. It's not making it simpler, it's adding a step. Just makes me wonder why GW would take such a roundabout way when they've confessed to wanting to streamline 40k.

Tis true, we don't know what these unit-specific faith abilities are. It would just be disappointing to lose the versatility I could get out of a sisters unit. I could tarpit for a round or two and buy some time with the current rules. Without Spirit of the Martyr and Hand of the Emperor, I doubt I could accomplish that in those clutch situations with the game on the line unless these unit specific faith powers vary per phase(to which I'd wonder what the point would be in making them unit specific).

I think I've gotten over much of the initial shock. I think I'll just stay away from rumours and let the WD codex come when it comes. If I like it, I'll play it. If I don't, I have a fandex or the old codex. I'm not really in a position where I lack options.

[Necron2.0]

Hmm. I really don't know what to think of this - a half-assed Codex, overpriced and under "manned" plastic squads, nerfed faith rules, and a one-size-fits-all approach to the kits? For now I'm going to take this all with a HUGE grain of salt. However, I'm not going to buy two White Dwarfs because someone in marketing had a wet dream (Hmmm. WD ... wd. Coincidence?). I'll wait till it's on a torrent. Only when they release an honest and real codex will they get my money. If they cannot be bothered to do the job right, then I cannot be bothered to actually pay for it.

[Lockark]

That's the thing, why change faith's rolling rules when there's no streamlining at all? Before, I'd roll over or under a certain number. With these rules, I have to roll a die, get points, and then roll X more die to see if I can get a 5+. It's not making it simpler, it's adding a step. Just makes me wonder why GW would take such a roundabout way when they've confessed to wanting to streamline 40k.

Tis true, we don't know what these unit-specific faith abilities are. It would just be disappointing to lose the versatility I could get out of a sisters unit. I could tarpit for a round or two and buy some time with the current rules. Without Spirit of the Martyr and Hand of the Emperor, I doubt I could accomplish that in those clutch situations with the game on the line unless these unit specific faith powers vary per phase(to which I'd wonder what the point would be in making them unit specific).

I think I've gotten over much of the initial shock. I think I'll just stay away from rumours and let the WD codex come when it comes. If I like it, I'll play it. If I don't, I have a fandex or the old codex. I'm not really in a position where I lack options.

Acculy it is stream lining.

1)You no longer have to keep track of Faith points burned and gained during a game. You roll up your "faith pool" at the start of the turn.
2)You always have the same target number for a faith point.


I find it funny because the mechanic suspiciously sounds like a simplified version of WHFB's magic system.
-Roll for "Faith Pool" at the start of your turn
-Allocate faith points(number of dice) to a act of faith you want to go off.
-Roll your dice and see if you got the +5 on one of your dice.


I don't see were this is more complex then what you already are doing. (Were you get one point per unit, then have to keep track of your points as they are gained and lost dureing the game.)


Well the acts of faith before were something you saved and would use when the moment is right, this mecanic changes acts of faith to the core. Bassist in a SoB army you are using acts of faith every turn. The trick is allocating your dice to maximize how many units will benefit from them.

In this system you are easily going to have 1-3 units a turn using acts of faith, maby even more counting on how many faithfull units you take, and how well you roll.



As for this change making your units less versatile? I would not be so quick to assume that. You don't know the final special rules, war gear, and points coast the final book will have. Heck. All we know about the basic SoB squad is that they will have a +3/++6Sv, and that they will be cheaper then they currently are.

That's not alot to go on.

All I know is that what we have heard so far sounds promising.

[DarkLink]

Wait, someone actually thought my offhanded comment was a credible source?

Hmmm, I think Sisters will come with rad and psykotroke grenades, and that the faith system will work just like psychic powers in terms of rules, with units getting powers just like the Grey Knights, and that Priests will have a special rule that caused enemy models assaulted by him to take a leadership test and if they fail they see the light of the emperor and are now controlled by the Sisters player. For 25pts. And he comes with an eviscerator for free.

I wonder if I can get quoted on warseer or something if I make enough crap up:rolleyes:.

[BrokenWing]

Not just an evicerator for free, you gotta think big man. An eviserator that also strikes at initiative 10. Gosh, don't you know anything? ;).

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Now that would make every SoB players day/week/year, is that GW make Faith like psychic powers and actually class them as such...meaning don't ever play a GK player then.

I'm still hoping all this rumour is a misconception and we are getting a codex, and all the WD will be is the lead up to it....we can hope atleast.

[GrenAcid]

@DarkLink
Did I say you where credible source?? I just made example with lower cost....ehhh people...

As for realistic cost, 8-9 pt....should do.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Well, if we're all going to just shout numbers out in the Battle Sister cost lottery, I'm going with 11 points. What do we get if we win?

[Lemt]

Now that would make every SoB players day/week/year, is that GW make Faith like psychic powers and actually class them as such...meaning don't ever play a GK player then.

I'm still hoping all this rumour is a misconception and we are getting a codex, and all the WD will be is the lead up to it....we can hope atleast.

I'm hoping GW starts releasing beta rules in WD so the world can test them, so when they do release the final Codex it comes with a complete FAQ (and/or clear rules).

[isotope99]

Other rumoured special rules

Not my new shoes :( : Sisters units move half the distance rolled through difficult terrain.

Multi-tasking: Any male units in a sisters army can choose at the beginning of their turn to shoot or assault, but cannot do both.

Parallel parking: No Sisters vehicle within 6" of another may be positioned within 45 degrees of the same angle.

Look boobies :eek: : Any male enemy units in combat with a Sisters unit must pass a leadership test at the beginning of the round or strike at -1I (-2I for sisters repentia). Daemonettes are only subject to this rule on a 4+.

Asking for directions: Any male units in a sisters army held in reserve must subtract 1 from their reserve rolls.




Disclaimer: The comments above are intended to play on broad humorous stereotypes and any offence caused is completely unintentional. I fully respect the rights of both sexes to choose any activity or profession from heading a multinational company to expressing themselves through the medium of dance in a clothing optional kind of way.

[eldargal]

I'd post a witty reply but I have to wait for my nail polish to dry.

[Necron2.0]

Other rumoured special rules

Not my new shoes :( : Sisters units move half the distance rolled through difficult terrain.

Multi-tasking: Any male units in a sisters army can choose at the beginning of their turn to shoot or assault, but cannot do both.

Parallel parking: No Sisters vehicle within 6" of another may be positioned within 45 degrees of the same angle.

Look boobies :eek: : Any male enemy units in combat with a Sisters unit must pass a leadership test at the beginning of the round or strike at -1I (-2I for sisters repentia). Daemonettes are only subject to this rule on a 4+.

Asking for directions: Any male units in a sisters army held in reserve must subtract 1 from their reserve rolls.


Drama Queen: If a sisters unit contains more than one HQ choice, their leadership is halved during leadership tests, as the divas will be distracted with undermining each other and/or arguing over who "rocks" their power armor the most.

[wittdooley]

Drama Queen: If a sisters unit contains more than one HQ choice, their leadership is halved during leadership tests, as the divas will be distracted with undermining each other and/or arguing over who "rocks" their power armor more.



Time of the Month
For one round during the game, any female models in an army are granted Furious Charge and must assault the closest male models, if able. This includes friendly male models.

Girls' Night Out
During round of combat under the night fight rule, Sisters of Battle models may forfeit normal movement to make the following movement: roll the scatter dice and make a 2D6 movement in that direction, as their uncontrollable dancing can often take them to places they handn't previously planned. On a scatter dice hit, the model does not move, as they've found a suitable dance partner.

Golddigger
Upon defeating an enemy IC in close combat, a sisters of battle Independent Character may take one piece of equipment from the enemy IC, as..."when she leave yo' azz she gon' leave with half." If the SoB IC chooses to take a piece of equipment, the enemy IC is restored all wounds and gains Preferred Enemy against the SoB IC.

[GrenAcid]

Yawn:confused:

@Unzuul the Lascivious
Why 11?? Thast their cost now.....I would say its gonna be that and bucket of special rules or lower cost and less bonuses.

[Kettu]

Yes but I'm not thinking of the specific miniatures so much as a sprue with 4 models on it for five and a half pounds. Given that GW are producing plastic characters, a five girl SoB box for, say, ten pounds seems a little more likely.

Again, the problem with that is GW will price them on materials and amounts used, Point cost of unit, use of unit in army or utility of kit. Which ever is most expensive.

the kits of four snap-fit Eldar guardians is a small kit, low utility and point cost. They end up being really cheep because of that.

The rumoured Sister kit is a literal all-in-one kit that'll cover Sisters, Celestians, Dominions, Retrubutions and Seraphim. Every place on the FOC except HQ.
It'll be multipart and cover most if not all options at least once.

It may just have 5 characters in it but it's got the greatest utility of anything in the army, certainly in the entire Sisters of Battle RANGE (due first and foremost to the only plastic kit at this point is a shared SM kit).

It won't come cheep.

If the rumours are true then I'd be really surprised if this was even the same cost as DE warriors. It'd probably be similar to GKPA or possibly even as high as the 10-pack Vanilla Marines

[DarkLink]

Now that would make every SoB players day/week/year, is that GW make Faith like psychic powers and actually class them as such...meaning don't ever play a GK player then.


What's really funny is that psychic powers are an established mechanic that would represent the faith points really well, as far as actual rules go.




Why 11?? Thast their cost now.....I would say its gonna be that and bucket of special rules or lower cost and less bonuses.

Sister's themselves aren't really poorly priced at the moment, it's mostly their limited codex options and vehicles that are iffy.

[Lancel]

I'm kinda afraid that spamming all these sprues in one kit will cause the overall cost of Sisters to actually NOT go down, but at least they'd actually be customizable. Still, I find the idea of getting the complete Seraphim sprue with the Sisters rather weird, largely because I have no idea how I'd ever be able to use that extra sprue if I'm making regular Sisters.

And heck, the current basic Sister isn't priced that bad. 11 points for a BS4 Power Armored Bolter ain't bad. And if they are getting a 6++ on top of it now they'll be better off at taking heavy weapons fire. Not hugely more, but it helps.

[GrenAcid]

And heck, the current basic Sister isn't priced that bad. 11 points for a BS4 Power Armored Bolter ain't bad. And if they are getting a 6++ on top of it now they'll be better off at taking heavy weapons fire. Not hugely more, but it helps.

Now sisterscan survive big pies with 10S/or hold warboss for 2-3 turns thanks to 3++ save....and I like it that way, hope 6++ is not all we gonna get.

[Lancel]

Now sisterscan survive big pies with 10S/or hold warboss for 2-3 turns thanks to 3++ save....and I like it that way, hope 6++ is not all we gonna get.

Was hard for me to get off most of the time since I tended to run squad member heavy for Divine Guidance, but I agree, I really hope we still get some version of Spirit of the Martyr to something. This was critical for taking those power weapon heavy death stars.

I also hope the Celestians still have Holy Hatred and that I'll still be able to get that via retinue on my Canoness, but heck, that may not matter so much anymore if the Canoness gets a (much needed) WS boost. Celestine getting bumped to WS7 is a pretty good sign of that.

[GrenAcid]

Was hard for me to get off most of the time since I tended to run squad member heavy for Divine Guidance, but I agree, I really hope we still get some version of Spirit of the Martyr to something. This was critical for taking those power weapon heavy death stars.

I also hope the Celestians still have Holy Hatred and that I'll still be able to get that via retinue on my Canoness, but heck, that may not matter so much anymore if the Canoness gets a (much needed) WS boost. Celestine getting bumped to WS7 is a pretty good sign of that.

I know Im dreaming but, Celestians as real CC squad.....WoooP!! WoooP!! WooooP!! I want!!!

Wonder what we could get from them...since repentia hold CC selite slot and celestian are shooty.....mabe somthing like DoW celestians??

[Lancel]

I know Im dreaming but, Celestians as real CC squad.....WoooP!! WoooP!! WooooP!! I want!!!

Wonder what we could get from them...since repentia hold CC selite slot and celestian are shooty.....mabe somthing like DoW celestians??

Nah, I want the Celestians to be the ELITE close combat squad. Repentia sort of fill it out but if they no longer hold an elite slot that kinda opens it up for Celestians some. Personally I always wanted Repentia to swap slots with Seraphim, Seraphim are more fluffy Elite choices anyway (and then for Repentia to get abilities that justify being Fast Attack, like Fleet, keeping Rage, or maybe even a 12" charge. Hey, they have it in Soulstorm!). It just never made sense to me that Seraphim, with their rarity and awe-inspiring presence and skill, would be considered Fast Attack while Sisters Repentia, in many ways considered the opposite, is the Elite choice. Elite should be something the army troops aspire to be. Becoming a Sister Repentia is not something a Sister aspires to be.

You know what I would do with Celestians? Give them Sarissas and Relentless. I wouldn't care how much it bumped their cost by, I think it would be sweet to see the Celestians march up, rapid fire some poor squad and then mop it up with a charge.

But eh, now I'm just wish listing.

[GrenAcid]

@up
But it is so beautiful wish...but Repentia for FA are not good imo.....I see them as non-scoring troop unit, that leaves only one FA unit.....so its not gonna hapend unless theres gonnabe some new units.

Hey, other thought, everyone have some kind of flyier....so what will sisters have?? Lightning fighter??

[Zweischneid]

If repentia get veils instead of gimp masks, I guess I can live with a greater focus in the lists.

I think there is a confusion.

The rumors at Heresy Online talked about veils on the sprues of the Sisters. Nothing about sprues for Repentia that I know of. Also, it'll be veils in the same way that a Nun wears a veil. Not veils in the sense that a Harem girl wears a veil.


Here, that girly from the existing range already has a veil (as well as a mask, but hey).

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1730041a_99060107067_SoBHospitaler_445x319.jpg

[Bigred]

TastyTaste strikes again.

Round 2 of the Sisters of Battle rumors:

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2011/06/15/network-news-sisters-of-battle-rumor-round-2/

[Lancel]

No Repressors is a little surprising. It seemed like a perfect opportunity to give the Sisters another tank. Arbites were always 50/50, but at this point I'd guess that the Frateris Militia is back.

Nothing really stands out about this as special or even necessarily good. With faith powers changed drastically it looks like none of the fantastic tactics we've used in the past will work now (granted 75% of them involved Spirit of the Martyr to tank everything known to man), and very little has been given in return. The 6++ is nice, but I don't see it making up for being able to get a 3++ when it really counts, nor do I see us being able to get a 2++ Canoness anymore.

Impressions past that:

Canoness sounds the same as before with nerfed faith powers, but hopefully she at least has more than WS4.

Repentia, if they are cheap enough they might become a viable option. Fleet I just assumed would be there.

Celestians probably about the same as now, except A2. Granted that really is a big improvement for them in close combat, but that was back when we had Divine Guidance and Hand of the Emperor. If they still have Holy Hatred then their reroll hits power could be quite potent in close quarters, but still won't make up for those two faith powers.

Battle Sisters still get a Heavy Flamer. Yay.

Seraphim will be more fragile now, but their cheaper cost means we can take more of them at least. Offensively is a mixed bag. Overall, their new faith power will kill a Space Marine only 3% less (25% instead of nearly 28%) than the old Divine Guidance would, and their increased weight of fire with Assault 2 instead of Assault 1 Twin-Linked should make up for that. Where this shows is that we probably won't be able to get the 3++ anymore, meaning the Seraphim will have to rely on body count to survive, and will still be more fragile than they were. Another weakness is that their faith power doesn't smack down FNP like Divine Guidance would.

Dominion Squads, did we determine that they do get the Scouts rule? If they do then ooooh.

Retributors. Why so cheerful? Proper Rending does give them a shot at killing transports with Heavy Bolters, but they don't look much different.

Penitent Engines... What? I'm not sure this guy has ever played Sisters. They're still going to pop like crazy. Maybe a reduction in cost would do it. Maybe.

Again, nothing really stands out as being a suitable replacement for the old style Acts of Faith. Mostly I see minor changes coupled with a cost rebalance, and, of course, allies rules and the Inquisition being removed. At the very least, and no one has really mentioned these yet, there will be new special characters (four apparently, with the 5th being Celestine again) and maybe Frateris Militia.

Hopefully we're still just short of info.

[Malachi]

You never know, one of the units may have a 3++ Faith power that just hasn't been mentioned yet.

[Lancel]

You never know, one of the units may have a 3++ Faith power that just hasn't been mentioned yet.

It's true. Certainly the Canoness must have a special faith power. The question is what. Heck, maybe it'll be a set of options to buy from, but nothing seems to have stood out. There are also the special characters to consider, which heck, might unlock army wide faith powers.

[daboarder]

Yup, that's a stop gap!

[DarkLink]

I love Seraphim. They're one of my favorite units in the game, and before the new codex I would ally them in with my GKs. If they get awesome melta and are super cheap now, then I'm excited. I can almost get 4x10 Sisters in Rhinos backed up by multiple Seraphim squads with what I have now.

[GrenAcid]

I hope this time they have it wrong.
Its sound like things that were good in prev codex are good(dominion/seraphim/retriubutor) and rest still lack edge to do somthing:mad:

Wait for more....

[Lancel]

Okay, I bothered making this, so I'm going to bother posting this:

Codex: Sisters of Battle Rumor Compendium

THE CODEX
It's going to be a White Dwarf codex, released in two parts in the August and September 2011 issues. This is CONFIRMED by the July 2011 WD issue, which has a teaser on the back declaring it to be so. This is part of a new push by GW to make White Dwarf more relevant (aka, back to the way it was).

Codex: Sisters of Battle, Part 1 (August 2011) features fluff and "beastiary".
Codex: Sisters of Battle, Part 2 (September 2011) is hard rules.

The entire Codex will be released as a free PDF compilation a few months after this, rumored to be out by November.

Speculation suggests this is a stop-gap codex produced for several reasons:

Killing the Allies rules once and for all (Codex: Witchhunters, which this codex will supercede, is the last valid codex to have it)
iSynching up rules for various units, mostly by means of ripping out the Inquisition (Inquistors and Assassins had two sets of rules thanks to Codex: Grey Knights)
To say with a straight face that there are no longer any 3rd Edition Codexes, and as part of meeting a promise to update everything to 5th Edition before 6th made a few years ago (notably, 6th is rumored to be due in Summer 2012, only one year out)


A full print codex is entirely speculation at this point, but it's reasonable to say that even if it's in the works it won't be out until 6th Edition, and it may take a back seat to the more popular armies depending on how the rest of the 5th Edition codexes go (Codex: Space Marine is always the first in a new edition anyway). Suggested timeframe is between August 2013 and November 2014.

THE MODELS
Presently models have only very loose rumors on them. Rumors for the past six months have said that new Sisters models have been on the way for some time, and apparently Jes Goodwyn himself has confirmed that they were being worked on. What is unknown is when they will be released, as with a WD codex we cannot be certain that anything will be released with it.

Models are said by at least two sources to exist. The question is less that they exist and more if they are DONE and WHEN they will be released.

Rumored Plastic Kits:
Battle Sisters (5-Sister packs that can build pretty much every Sister, including Seraphim, Sister Superiors, and all special weapons)
Penitent Engine
Sisters Repentia (rumored 10-sister packs because well... not many options there)
Priest

Note, the source of the above (sexy camera) is in conflict with Blood of Kittens, as the Repressor was reported to be making an appearance in plastic, but BoK has specifically stated there is no Repressor in the Sisters' codex. BoK's track record has been strong so far, as they correctly reported that the Sisters would be getting a White Dwarf Codex this summer.

Stickmonkey only reported on the existence of a mock up Sister model in early January. This could have been very early development, which could mean they are still very far off.

Dominant speculation is that there will be no plastic release. At best a Finecast re-release of existing models.

THE RULES
These are relatively well known due to Blood of Kittens rumors. Though they had a good idea on the rules, they have nothing on models. Note: I'm not sure the BoK guy knows Sisters too well based on some of the things stated, so I'll be throwing in my own interpretations.

Big points:
Allies gone.
Inquisition gone.
Assassins gone except Death Cult.
Cheaper unit costs (how much cheaper is not presently known)
All Faithful units gain a 6++
Faith Powers completely revised
Arbites and Repressor are NOT in it (according to BoK p2)

Acts of Faith are not completely known, but the bits of the rules that are known is that each unit will receive its own special faith power that they can use. Each faithful unit will generate d6 faith points a turn, but these do not carry over to the next turn, the pool is rerolled each turn (presumably at the start of the Sisters player's turn). Activation mechanics are not clearly enumerated, but it is known to be somehow based on a "5+ to activate". Only the faithful can use an act of faith.

Wargear with the same names as Grey Knight wargear remains and uses the Grey Knight rules. Psybolt Ammo is specifically stated.

HQ

Canoness: No specifics known, other than she "starts cheap, but has expensive options". To me this says she hasn't changed at all, other than now being displayed in 5th Edition style. Still gets a retinue (apparently it's useless?).

Confessor: New, cheap, creates a henchman band as found in the Grey Knights codex. Confessor and Confessor's squad can re-roll hits and wounds. Did not specify if this was in close combat or just in general.

St. Celestine: Still in, though Karamazov is not. Stat wise she's had a significant upgrade. Still 2+/4++, but now WS/BS 7, still Jump Pack, gains Fleet, and the Ardent Blade now instead always wounds on a 4+ (Spec: This may also be a sign of a new rule for Blessed Weapons, since the Ardent Blade counted as a Blessed Weapon in the previous codex). Comes back like Thawn in the Grey Knight Codex (Never actually dies, comes back at the same spot on a 4+ roll, made every turn until successful, comes back with one wound).

Priests: Said to be pretty much unchanged.

5 HQ choices total, meaning there are two unknown (unless Priests is one of them, which is possible), but told to expect new Special Characters.

Elite

Celestian Squad: Few changes noted. Unknown if they still get Holy Hatred. Known to have A2 now, and a faith power that lets them reroll hits in close combat or ranged. Still cheaper than a Marine.

Death Cult Assassins: Probably same as Grey Knights codex.

Sisters Repentia?: Rumored to no longer be an Elite choice. Cost is said to be around Space Marine cost. USRs include Rage, Fearless, Feel No Pain, and Fleet. Repentia Sisters are Faithful and therefore receive a 6++. Still cannot take a transport. Faith power: (spec: ONLY IN DEATH...) Lets them swing their Eviscerators in a close combat even if they have been killed by a higher initiative unit (thus, even if half the squad is wiped out, if they've used this power, that dead half still gets to make their Eviscerator swing).

Fast Attack

Seraphim Squad: Pistols now Assault 2 instead of Assault 1 Twin-linked. Supposedly cheaper than a Space Marine. USR version of Hit and Run retained. Inferno Pistols (also Assault 2), Hand Flamers still in. Faith Power: Reroll To-Wound.

Dominion Squad: Rebalanced point cost assumed (so no more overpriced Flamers/Meltaguns), still can carry four special weapons. Scouts. Faith Power: Makes their weapons twin-linked.

Transports

Rhino point costs and options reflect Codex: Space Marines.

Heavy Support

Exorcists: Unchanged except for a rumored range increase.

Immolator: No news except speculation that the capacity has been increased based on the suggestion that the standard Battle Sister squad can take it as a transport, despite still being minimum 10.

Retributor Squad: "Pretty fantastic. CHEAP! Talking under Long Fang cheap to fully kit out." They sound pretty much unchanged, maybe cheaper guns. Act of Faith: Rending (seems a bit contradictory to the earlier rumor that faith powers won't give USRs), basically they can still use Divine Guidance.

Penitent Engine: "Again fantastic. Same statline (Walker)." Again, sounds like they'll still be popped like crazy every opponent shooting phase. Only changes appear to be that they're now cheaper, wounds inflicted generate additional attacks somehow, and they have a 6++.

Troops

Battle Sisters: Largely unchanged, still 10-20 squad size, Heavy Flamer available, multiple acts of faith available (though no rumor on what they do). Presence of Acts of Faith implies the unit is Faithful and therefore gets a 6++ like, apparently, every other Sister.

Frateris Militia?: We have no idea if they even will exist, but they are commonly suggested as a means of giving the Sisters another unit choice, since Inquisition is gone now. Included here because I'm sure someone must be asking.


SOURCES

Stickmonkey: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/01/40k-rumors-2011-schedule-sororitas.html
sexy camera: (only one I could find) http://www.40konline.com/community/index.php?topic=204006.msg2595223#msg2595223
Blood of Kittens p1: http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2011/06/12/network-news-sisters-of-battle-rumors-sunday-edition/
Blood of Kittens p2: http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2011/06/15/network-news-sisters-of-battle-rumor-round-2/
White Dwarf Codex Confirmation: http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=15771

My thoughts:

Blood of Kittens has had it right so far, and reading sexy camera's rumor... I'm unfortunately inclined to discard it. BoK report no Repressor, SC reports a Repressor in plastic. BoK has a track record, SC doesn't. The absolute best scenario I can come up with that means SC is also right is that the models are coming but will not be coming any time soon, and will instead come with a hypothetical full print codex in 6th Edition. It is not uncommon for things to sit in house at GW for quite a while, even years. Still, Jes has strongly implied plastic Sisters are coming if sources are accurate. I'm guessing what Stickmonkey saw was an early prototype.

I am honestly at a loss for the models for what to say one way or another. All I can say is that while we have evidence they exist, there is no evidence to suggest they will be released with this White Dwarf codex, but nor do we have any evidence to contradict aside from previous WD releases not getting any either. At present, we can only assume that the Sisters model lineup will not be changed.

[Kawauso]

To say with a straight face that there are no longer any 3rd Edition Codexes...


*cough*Necrons*cough*

Seriously though, thanks for the compilation. :)

[Lancel]

*cough*Necrons*cough*

Seriously though, thanks for the compilation. :)

Oh, they're coming too, we already knew that. Sisters was kinda the last iffy one. Still a bit surprised Sisters leapfrogged the Necrons. I remember some random guy said Sisters would be first and no one believed it, haha.

[Kawauso]

Well what with the actual -rules- for Sisters apparently coming in September, they could very well be around the same time.

[Lancel]

Well what with the actual -rules- for Sisters apparently coming in August, they could very well be at the same time.

A possibility I have not entirely discounted, though many have. If there are no Sisters models then there is truly no release. White Dwarf gets released monthly anyway, and with no separate printed Codex nor any models there is literally nothing to fill a release slot with. The Necrons could still come out in August. Begs a further question, if there is to be no Sisters release, then what's coming out in November?

My personal call is that Necrons still come in August or September (kinda thinking September to give some room for Storm of Magic and because I expect there would be a White Dwarf teaser in there) and Sisters get a first wave in November when the PDF is released. Sisters first wave will probably be a relatively small release (Finecasts of the Confessor and the new special characters at least, and at this point I'd consider us very lucky if we see plastic Sisters).

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Don't count on Necrons getting a codex now, just a WD release like SoB....yep thats right the shafted codex. Now i am always for new miniatures, but so far there are no rumours of new units, special characters or new heavy support to deal with AV14. So if looks like at this time, that all they are doing is bringing out a glossy FAQ, pimped it up, and bring out current miniatures in plastic and Finecast.

Sad of GW at the moment to NOT bring out the last of the two codex's after going all over board with BA, DE, GK's and then to leave out again full codex's for SoB and Necrons. Thats not caring for your fans, or marketing, that's just a sad attempt to cover up.

I'm not holding my breath over new Faith rules, or this WD codex, i'm against it actually. They could just bring our back to back codex's before 6th ed.

[Kawauso]

Necrons are more popular than Sisters.

Hell, any army is more popular than Sisters.

I don't have anything against them - I think they're cool, but the fact is that the number of Sisters players out there is really low. I don't see their getting a WD-dex as indicative of anything for other armies.

[Lancel]

I share a lot of SRS's concerns. It begs the question of where the line is drawn. What beckons a WD codex and what beckons a full codex? Could we say Dark Eldar were popular enough to warrant what they got or was it just the luck of the draw and GW threw their money at DE, then when Sisters came up someone said "Hey! Let's throw them into White Dwarf as part of our new initiative to make it better!"?

We've had some pretty strong rumors lately suggesting what's coming in terms of Necron models, but the strongest Sister model rumor is virtually shot down for me, leaving really only one mock up in January. I'm not joking when I say there may not be a release at all.

So yeah, I guess where do we draw the line? I'm guessing it can only be based on popularity, but with Daemonhunters/Grey Knights and Dark Eldar getting the full course, I just can't see the Necrons not getting it too. Black Templar, Dark Angels, and Chaos Daemons are more likely candidates. There are still full codexes that need to be released every so often, but I will suggest, with uncertainty and a lack of conviction, the irony of what a White Dwarf is in 40k.

I suppose the last line there though means we can't draw the line with the Sisters. Necrons will be more telling. Either way, it's not looking pretty for the Sisters so far. I'll feel better if there are going to be new models.

[Kawauso]

I'm not saying a line -should- be drawn - believe me, I think it's BS Sisters are getting the WD treatment.

I don't think -any- army should be in White Dwarf. Sub-armies like Kroot Mercs, or a Mini-Codex Imperial Fists to use with C:SM, sure. Those sound like they'd be great. But I don't think any army should get its book replaced by a couple WD issues and a PDF. I remember what happened to Blood Angels...

What I am saying though is that I think I can see the relative niche market for Sisters being seen by GW as a reason to give them a WD-dex, perhaps.

[Malachi]

It's especially disappointing since I think Sisters could be interesting and unique if they tried. If they put in the effort that they did with DE, or appear to be doing with Necrons, they would have good results I'm sure.

[daboarder]

Kawauso.


DARK ELDAR, the red headed step child created in 3rd for marines to pick on. Given a proper release with great model support and now they are the best seller GW has even after the GK release. I think that's a fairly good example of what supporting an army more than once every 2-3 years can do. Sisters are unpopular for one reason and one reason only, they are stuck with metal.

[Lerra]

I still don't see what's wrong with getting a WD codex in between printed codices. If there is a 6-year gap between printed codices for an army, I'd much rather get a WD/PDF codex at year 3 or 4 than to go without.

[Kettu]

Necrons are more popular than Sisters.

Hell, any army is more popular than Sisters.

I don't have anything against them - I think they're cool, but the fact is that the number of Sisters players out there is really low. I don't see their getting a WD-dex as indicative of anything for other armies.

That's not hard.
Sisters are the one army GW has never even tried to sell. Every time they have released them it was with as little fanfare as possible and they have been shafted every time as well.
The fact GW is consistently surprised by the Sisters inevitably not selling, is the surprising thing.
Like they literally do not know how the market works. But only for that one faction.

[Kettu]

I still don't see what's wrong with getting a WD codex in between printed codices. If there is a 6-year gap between printed codices for an army, I'd much rather get a WD/PDF codex at year 3 or 4 than to go without.

Except that it's been seven years so far and will be another two minimum before a printed dex. I've spoken to a fair few rumourmongers myself and nothing specific was mentioned by anyone but that seems to be the general sentiment.

I'm personally guessing they won't start a proper codex until 6th ed is well under way.

[Lerra]

That's true - the paper codex won't hit til at least 2013, but the WD codex doesn't change that. Given a choice between a WD codex update and no codex update, I'll take what I can get. If you're looking for fluff, there are other sources of great SoB fluff including the Blood of Martyrs book that was recently released.

This coming from a Chaos Daemons player who probably won't get a codex update for 3-4 years, possibly more. I'm hoping to get a Daemons WD update eventually.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Would love to hear the complaints if they ever did say DA's or even just SM's in a WD codex in the future. I would be defenitely point back to this day if they did.
Doubt it but would be soooo funny.

SoB get a WD release...2nd ed codex...3rd ed codex...a FAQ that did nothing really...and now a WD release again.
Full circle without the GW support it needed, yeah and you wonder why it isn't marketted as one of the best codexes.

[Kettu]

@Lerra;
The problem though is it has been seven years without an update. I would have rather GW spent the time and effort now to make their codex then wait another several years.

The WD is essentially a cop-out. Minimal work on their behalf just so they can procrastinate for several more years.
It isn't a case of 'they'll get done when they get done'. This allows them to avoid the problem all together and just wait it out for several more years.

@Sister Rosette Soulknyt;
There was a second WDex between 2nd and 3rd ed dexes.

This'll be the Sisters 3rd outing in WD. I don't think any one else can claim such a dubious honour.

[Melissia]

Well this is gonna blow horribly.

What's with the dumbasses getting excited over nine penitent engines? We can already do that. We don't cause they SUCK.

[Lancel]

Well this is gonna blow horribly.

What's with the dumbasses getting excited over nine penitent engines? We can already do that. We don't cause they SUCK.

Yes, that actually nearly made me spit my drink. Even if cheaper they're still going to pop like crazy to enemy anti-tank, so I guess what? We can take more Penitent Engines for the enemy to kill? Or maybe just spend those points on other troops that can actually do something...

Oh wait, nerfed faith powers, so now that's no one.

All complaints aside, the guy describing the codex I don't think quite knows how the old codex worked to begin with concerning what works and what doesn't to really be able to tell us where the codex has improved or been nerfed. I still say nothing looks all that impressive. All we seem to hear is "Same stats, cheaper points" over and over again. It's like the Sisters have become Power Armored Orks.

I just don't feel being able to fire off lesser powers more regularly is going to help the Sisters any. What won them battles before was firing off really good faith powers on that one squad in that one turn where you really, really needed it.

[Thornblood]

A few years back GW did a blood angels codex in WD- not too long after the vanilla marines codex.

I would expect a repeat of that.

Which means no new models, and no really special and unique thing about the army, just everything a bit Universal general rules heavy with not too many frills- you pay for a statline and get no surprises.

On the other hand, they did bring the army up to a competitive and viable par with the other armies out there (Vanilla marines, Daemons and Orks). Incidentally they may have been slightly overpowered as the Space Wolves were playtested against this WD list.

So we can look forward to a straightforward army that is up to scratch competitively, because GW is putting this project on hold for a good while. Its also a good way they can get a feel for how that will stand up in current meta before they write the frills and exciting new bits into a future codex.

Because of the present, I would also expect a number of models to go finecast. Thats a bunch of Inquisition models- maybe Assassins, maybe even new models for them, The canoness, probably the penitent engine and they might consider throwing the rest of the sisters in the finecast machine in an effort to get rid of an almost all metal army.

[sbsk1882]

Hey, Melissia is back!

Well, beside that, most of the comunity complains about missing playtesting. What is better playtesting than a WD codex?
Anyway, let's be happy, that there will be a Sistercodex... It is a distraction until a real codex is released in 3 years. Better than nothing, huh?

[daboarder]

A few years back GW did a blood angels codex in WD- not too long after the vanilla marines codex.

I would expect a repeat of that.

Which means no new models, and no really special and unique thing about the army, just everything a bit Universal general rules heavy with not too many frills- you pay for a statline and get no surprises.

On the other hand, they did bring the army up to a competitive and viable par with the other armies out there (Vanilla marines, Daemons and Orks). Incidentally they may have been slightly overpowered as the Space Wolves were playtested against this WD list.

So we can look forward to a straightforward army that is up to scratch competitively, because GW is putting this project on hold for a good while. Its also a good way they can get a feel for how that will stand up in current meta before they write the frills and exciting new bits into a future codex.

Because of the present, I would also expect a number of models to go finecast. Thats a bunch of Inquisition models- maybe Assassins, maybe even new models for them, The canoness, probably the penitent engine and they might consider throwing the rest of the sisters in the finecast machine in an effort to get rid of an almost all metal army.


HuH!!!!

The BA WD dex was released in conjunction with DA's release and realistically it sat far bellow orks and about equal with the much later to arrive daemons. It also had no links to the later eventual BA codex.....This may still be playtesting, but I think its just a stopgap now.

[MadCowCrazy]

Well this is gonna blow horribly.

What's with the dumbasses getting excited over nine penitent engines? We can already do that. We don't cause they SUCK.

Well since TastyTaste was so unclear it might be 9 per Fast Attack or Heavy Support slot depending on which one they end up in.
I doubt your opponent has enough firepower to kill 27 Penitent Engines before at least 1 reaches them....

Then again a single Exorcist can kill 6 in one round of shooting if a bit lucky....

[DarkLink]

And ork kan wall lists aren't bad, though they're not the most competitive things in the world. With better fire support than an ork list could bring, and being better priced, pertinent engines could be decent.

[Lemt]

The point is, Killa Kans have decent firepower, so they don't have to get into melee to do stuff.

[The Madman]

Its going to be just like the warriors of chaos WD codex, its a temp fix for a codex that shared/had similar unit to a codex that has been updated. there probably won't be any new models until the new codex is released. its what happens when two codexs share/have simliar units to each other and one gets updated, the other gets a temp list till the next book is out.

anyway it'll only be like six months to the release of the proper one.

[Tynskel]

A few years back GW did a blood angels codex in WD- not too long after the vanilla marines codex.




No.

This was a 4th edition codex that came out after the release of Codex Dark Angels. 5th edition space marines came out ~a year later.

Dark Angels and the Blood Angels were test codices to see whether or not the direction they were taking the game would work.

It did work.

[Verilance]

I was reading on Warseer, the latest rumour that there will be no model release with the WD codex, since it impossible to buy SoB models at my local shop or even at some of the online stores, doesn't it seem ridiculous for even GW standards to release a codex that only those who have an army already can play?

I have wanted a Sister's army for a long time to face my son's Tyranids but cost (and availabilty) has prevented it.

[eldargal]

Well, BramGaunt says the new kits might not be coming with the WD codex, but won't be far away. He even mentions the possibility of a proper codex in six months time, but he does make the point he isn't sure of any ofthis, including the kits not coming with the WD codex.

[Lancel]

I'm kinda thinking what we'll get is Necrons in August/September/whatever, the WD codex for Sisters now, but no models release until November when the PDF is released. At least that's my guess.

[Verilance]

ah well they can be my Christmas present then ha ha

[Lerra]

Allow me to be overly optimistic for a minute . . .

What if, for every new codex, GW released a rules-only WD codex as a preview/public beta test 6 months prior? WD codices wouldn't be tournament legal since GW would still be working out the kinks, but it would allow GW to get some feedback and for the public to sort out any rules questions or unbalanced rules.

[templarboy]

Allow me to be overly optimistic for a minute . . .

What if, for every new codex, GW released a rules-only WD codex as a preview/public beta test 6 months prior? WD codices wouldn't be tournament legal since GW would still be working out the kinks, but it would allow GW to get some feedback and for the public to sort out any rules questions or unbalanced rules.

A few years ago I could see this. Like a Chapter Approved sort of thing. Nowadays with the secrecy and silliness that GW has been exhibiting.....I am actually expecting the SoB to be "Squatted" right after this WD thing. "Here are some useless Codex revisions that require you to buy a ton more models but good news! They are all finecast now and twice as expensive as before! Oh and that is all this army is ever gonna get." Something like that. I hope I am wrong. I would love to put together an entire SoB army. All enclosed helmets. Total shooty gunline style bolter fun with cool church imagery all over it. Thats my dream.

[sangrail777]

Well Lerra that is VERY OPPTIMISTIC. Still I think your onto something there. It would be very cost effective for GW. I mean for a company that has such a wide fan/user base why not let them work for you to test your rules and solve your problems before even having to pay someone to do it. Just an idea.

[Lancel]

Allow me to be overly optimistic for a minute . . .

What if, for every new codex, GW released a rules-only WD codex as a preview/public beta test 6 months prior? WD codices wouldn't be tournament legal since GW would still be working out the kinks, but it would allow GW to get some feedback and for the public to sort out any rules questions or unbalanced rules.

I think it's a cool idea but I'm really not sure that's what's going on, and I can't even be too sure that six months is enough time to rebalance based on criticism. It might be, but it would be no more than a couple months of playtesting before they have to develop changes, put them through some testing in house and send it off to the printers.

I do like it though, it's a pretty awesome idea.

I'm just leaning more to it being more to GW deciding the Sisters are not popular enough to justify the kind of investment like what the Dark Eldar got. Maybe if they pick up with this White Dwarf release, but I'm kinda thinking this is going to mean they're being relegated to being something of a second tier army. Not in terms of being able to win, but just in terms of getting new stuff. I hope that's just pessimism though. We'll see. Got me to buy a White Dwarf though.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

The reason SoB are not as popular as say IG, SM, Ork, or Eldar is that GW lacked creativity and dedication enough to care to market them.
Imagine if they told their writters to create more novels based on SoB, imagine if they released more artwork, or hey even if they release a codex per edition, not one in 2nd, 3rd and then nothing??

Now compare the level of care GW have showed to SoB to just IG. If they provided the same type of release, codex alone well you would see a lot more players, not just a few either. The reason GW don't see the results from SoB, is that GW pushes woman away from the hobby as everything is nealy masculine, even the GW staff point you towards SM's. And not forgetting how awkward men all get when a woman wants to play too...hyperventalating, weird looks, smelly men, sexist childish remarks, no wonder there are not enough woman in this hobby.

If GW went all ahead on SoB, actually poked a stick at the PR department and told them to actually work, i'm sure SoB would be one of the competitive armies and poplular. Its all about marketing..and we know how bad GW are at that.

[Lockark]

I know plenty of people who are interested in playing SoB. No one dose thow due to the coast of collecting the army, and it's metal figures.


Instead of a dirty chaos player I probly would be playing SoB myself right now, if it wasn't a army of expensive metal models.
=P

Sisters need a plastic Box Comparable to a current Dark Eldar Warrioir box and it would solve so many issues with them.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Lockark agreed, we need plastic everything, and anything thats metal needs to be finecast. I mean have you felt how heavy the Excorsist is?? It's the heaviest model in GW range i think. I own four of them, and they all fit into the large carry case from GW and i tell you you feel it.
To carry my army (not all of them fit in two cases), i use two large carry cases, one with tanks, transports and repressors, the other carries all troops. Together it's like a weekly workout for me lugging them around.
Still have to buy another for the 60 repentia, 10 arbites and 3 more Immolators yet.

Imagine when they bring out plastics, i'm going to need a third case. Someone said to me you should just sell off those 300+ metal SoB and buy all plastic, i didn't know either to laugh at him, take him seriously or just probie slap him.

[Lockark]

Lockark agreed, we need plastic everything, and anything thats metal needs to be finecast. I mean have you felt how heavy the Excorsist is?? It's the heaviest model in GW range i think. I own four of them, and they all fit into the large carry case from GW and i tell you you feel it.
To carry my army (not all of them fit in two cases), i use two large carry cases, one with tanks, transports and repressors, the other carries all troops. Together it's like a weekly workout for me lugging them around.
Still have to buy another for the 60 repentia, 10 arbites and 3 more Immolators yet.

Imagine when they bring out plastics, i'm going to need a third case. Someone said to me you should just sell off those 300+ metal SoB and buy all plastic, i didn't know either to laugh at him, take him seriously or just probie slap him.

We have one guy at our gaming group who is dedicated enough to play SoB, and I have seen his Excorsist many times. Huge chunk of metal.
O___o

I've never seen one in person but I suspect the metal Chaos Dragon would be heavier.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440108a&prodId=prod1050030


But yah. Update or no update, if GW dosen't do something about thows expensive troop boxs no one will STILL want to collect sisters.
=/

[Lancel]

They just need the same attention as the other armies, even for just one release. A lot of why they aren't popular is just that. They'd start an army if the line had something to offer, but when everyone is used to plastic troop kits, starting an army of solid hunks of metal for troops doesn't seem so appealing.

Right now the Sisters don't compete with other armies, and I'm not even talking about the rules. The model range is easily the most out of date in all of 40k, and as many have pointed out, there are many who would say "Hey, I want to start a new army", consider the Sisters, then throw them out just because of the all-metal line and pick something else. Why pick a more expensive and drastically less customizable army when you can do one of the other dozen or so?

Just one pack of plastic Sisters would make that go away, and it will take that to actually see if the army can stand on its own merits. As it is the only Sisters players are the ones who like the rather limited fluff enough to accept starting a 3rd Edition army with 2nd Edition models at 5th Edition prices. A bit dramatic but there you are. At least one of the three may be fixed now.

Speaking of fluff and books though, Black Library is at least coming out with a new book and an audio drama of all things for the Sisters later this year. Then there was Blood of Martyrs for Dark Heresy this past Winter, so at least they've got something here and there.

[Melissia]

Anyway, let's be happy, that there will be a Sistercodex... It is a distraction until a real codex is released in 3 years. Better than nothing, huh?I would rather keep C:WH than get a ****ty non-codex codex which adds nothing and removes plenty. Especially since we probably won't get any plastic until the REAL codex comes out anyway.

Hell **** that, I'd sooner just use my own fandex, which at least TRIES to keep sisters up with fifth edition than this crap.

[Melissia]

Well since TastyTaste was so unclear it might be 9 per Fast Attack or Heavy Support slot depending on which one they end up in.
I doubt your opponent has enough firepower to kill 27 Penitent Engines before at least 1 reaches them....

Then again a single Exorcist can kill 6 in one round of shooting if a bit lucky....

I sincerely doubt they'll allow nine exorcists per slot if they don't allow nine sentinels.

[Anggul]

I would rather keep C:WH than get a ****ty non-codex codex which adds nothing and removes plenty.

Hell **** that, I'd sooner just use my own fandex, which at least TRIES to keep sisters up with fifth edition than this crap.

I think the main reason you don't see SoB much is because they're stupidly expensive old metal models which rarely get to see the light of day. Unless they actually make them worse, I think it should be fine, it's the new models that most people seem to be after. If the Battle Sisters stay at the same cost but get grenades, cheapers transports and cheaper special weapons I think the codex will be okay.

The transports will go down in price, and hopefully the Seraphim will drop massively in price. The sisters aren't priced too badly, but the costs of special weapons (meltaguns being 15pts for Dominions is far too much) seem to bog them down.

[eldargal]

BramGaunt says he has heard SoB will be getting a proper codex very soon.

[wittdooley]

I sincerely hope that we'll get some nice plastic boxes, DE style. The Sisters would sell a ton of models if they look half that good.

[Lancel]

I would rather keep C:WH than get a ****ty non-codex codex which adds nothing and removes plenty. Especially since we probably won't get any plastic until the REAL codex comes out anyway.

Those are my feelings on the matter as well. We're used to this codex, we know it has its weaknesses but we can work with its strengths. It's not great, but so far it's better than what's been rumored generally. Not to say we can't make a new codex work too, even if White Dwarf, but it already sounds like most of our existing strategies will no longer exist.

I still hope for a proper codex, but I think it's getting less and less likely, but maybe the next White Dwarf will shed some light on what their plans are.

As for Sisters prices, 11 points per is fairly competitive only at the very basic level. Once you factor in generally high priced wargear, overpriced transports, and a lack of free grenades they quickly lose that competitive edge and you're essentially playing with a Space Marine list that has fewer options, both in tactics and logistics. After all, a Tactical Marine gets Kraks and Frags free at 15 points, whereas a Battle Sister with Frags and Kraks is 14 points at -1 T/WS/S/I. Often times you won't take grenades as a result, but this does nevertheless reduce the number of options available. Typical Tactical Marines can assault effectively, and have the option to attack with Krak grenades against whatever vehicle.

And well, the price of certain special weapons and transports is way out of the park. I mean if you want a Sisters squad with Frags, Kraks, and a Rhino for whatever reason you actually will end up paying more for it than the Space Marine equivalent, and the Sisters will be clearly inferior besides. Also the cost of Meltas and Flamers on a Dominion Squad is right out.

[Melissia]

As for Sisters prices, 11 points per is fairly competitive only at the very basic level. Once you factor in generally high priced wargear, overpriced transports, and a lack of free grenades they quickly lose that competitive edge and you're essentially playing with a Space Marine list that has fewer options, both in tactics and logistics. After all, a Tactical Marine gets Kraks and Frags free at 15 points, whereas a Battle Sister with Frags and Kraks is 14 points at -1 T/WS/S/I. Often times you won't take grenades as a result, but this does nevertheless reduce the number of options available. Typical Tactical Marines can assault effectively, and have the option to attack with Krak grenades against whatever vehicle.

Not to mention Marines have bolt pistols to assist their assaulting, and Sisters have to BUY their leadership rules (through the VSS for Faith and the BoSL for morale) where Marines get ATSKNF and Combat Tactics built in. Ten sisters with VSS, frags, kraks, and BoSL are about 16 points per model. Even if you consider BoSL+Faith to be a good trade-off for ATSKNF and Combat Tactics, marines still get +1 Weapon Skill, +1 Strength, +1 Toughness, + Initiative and Bolt Pistols for a mere one point more.

And all the while Sisters have fewer options to play with for support, so their troops HAVE to pick up the slack, but aren't able to. It's not so bad for IG vets to be seemingly a bit pricey when you have so many excellent vehicles supporting them, for example-- you don't see IG vet armies doing badly... because even if IG vets themselves aren't that exceptional (which is debatable, given three special weapons), they have the best vehicles in the game to support them. Sisters have... well, nothing but Exorcists, which for how much they're used still aren't as powerful as many people think they are. Mostly they're just used because Sisters have nothing else that fulfills that important role.

[Lancel]

Not to mention Marines have bolt pistols to assist their assaulting, and Sisters have to BUY their leadership rules (through the VSS for Faith and the BoSL for morale) where Marines get ATSKNF and Combat Tactics built in. Ten sisters with VSS, frags, kraks, and BoSL are about 16 points per model. Even if you consider BoSL+Faith to be a good trade-off for ATSKNF and Combat Tactics, marines still get +1 Weapon Skill, +1 Strength, +1 Toughness, + Initiative and Bolt Pistols for a mere one point more.

And all the while Sisters have fewer options to play with for support, so their troops HAVE to pick up the slack, but aren't able to. It's not so bad for IG vets to be seemingly a bit pricey when you have so many excellent vehicles supporting them, for example-- you don't see IG vet armies doing badly... because even if IG vets themselves aren't that exceptional (which is debatable, given three special weapons), they have the best vehicles in the game to support them. Sisters have... well, nothing but Exorcists, which for how much they're used still aren't as powerful as many people think they are. Mostly they're just used because Sisters have nothing else that fulfills that important role.

That about sums it up, yeah. I forgot about the Veteran Squad Leader and bolt pistols. Even our Celestians don't get Bolt Pistols. Exorcists are good, but they literally are the only ranged anti-tank, and not hard to pop. Said IG Melta Vets can deepstrike with a Vendetta and scrag it pretty reliably with its 11 Side and 10 Rear.

The only thing that really made up for it was Faith Powers, which are just so integral to the army, along with Books of St. Lucius if you have any crazy notions of going to melee, and the rumors suggest the first is nerfed, and the second everyone considers so blatantly overpowered in 5th Edition that it probably can't help but be nerfed. More numbers isn't going to help when all they do is run off the table.

[Melissia]

People mostly consider the BoSL to be overpowered because they're stupid and looking at it in a vacuum instead of relative to the codex it's in. For example, fifteen point power weapons are fine in a Marine codex, but frankly it's ten points too high for Guard... meanwhile Shootas are powerful weapons but they're balanced out by being put on an Ork, who either doesn't know how to or simply doesn't bother to aim.

[Lancel]

Agreed. It just happens to make up for a lot of things that gimp the Sisters. Of course it would be nice if we didn't have to use it to make up for stuff, or if there were other nice options too, or if the points were better balanced and we didn't have to pay 15 points for a Meltagun on some squads, but yeah, there you go. Would it be overpowered in another army list? Hell yeah, but the Witchhunters list just isn't very strong on its own.

And really I completely agree with your analogy to ATSKNF. If you took the same WH list and just took out the BoSL, it would be like taking a Space Marine list and taking out ATSKNF. The book is just that important. It is a piece of wargear, and maybe wargear should simply add useful options, but that's just not how it turned out. Certainly if someone took the WH list and removed only the book, the WH army would be much weaker, about as if someone took ATSKNF from the Space Marines and effectively make the army even less competitive than it already is. I mean it's not like the Book is making unstoppable cheese build Sisters armies here. We use the book and it just happens to help us actually win once in a while. It's not like they're Long Fangs.

[flekkzo]

Not to mention Marines have bolt pistols to assist their assaulting, and Sisters have to BUY their leadership rules (through the VSS for Faith and the BoSL for morale) where Marines get ATSKNF and Combat Tactics built in. Ten sisters with VSS, frags, kraks, and BoSL are about 16 points per model. Even if you consider BoSL+Faith to be a good trade-off for ATSKNF and Combat Tactics, marines still get +1 Weapon Skill, +1 Strength, +1 Toughness, + Initiative and Bolt Pistols for a mere one point more.

And all the while Sisters have fewer options to play with for support, so their troops HAVE to pick up the slack, but aren't able to. It's not so bad for IG vets to be seemingly a bit pricey when you have so many excellent vehicles supporting them, for example-- you don't see IG vet armies doing badly... because even if IG vets themselves aren't that exceptional (which is debatable, given three special weapons), they have the best vehicles in the game to support them. Sisters have... well, nothing but Exorcists, which for how much they're used still aren't as powerful as many people think they are. Mostly they're just used because Sisters have nothing else that fulfills that important role.

Compare it to a Grey Hunter or Long Fang and those Vanilla Marines don't look quite as tasty anymore. Sisters should come stock with the good stuff and have plenty of useful upgrades. All for a low point cost.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

As long as they bring out new models that look cool and have attractive faces and sexy bodies, I'm buying. I know how that sounds girls, but I wouldn't want to buy them if they were ugly. Scars are ok, and they don't have to have great big boobs, but I like the bob cut and the good-looking Sisters thing. And I like an army that's a bit sexy. That's not all though - I really like the juxtaposition of their creed against their look - purity and faith, the most devout of armies, the Ecclesiastic feel to them, the Saints and Martyrs - you might lay hands on them, but it's the last thing those hands would feel. I don't think they should be entirely sexualised and turned into a lesbian fantasy range or anything like that, I just hope they leave that little bit of sexiness in there for us sad old married types

[Lockark]

I would rather keep C:WH than get a ****ty non-codex codex which adds nothing and removes plenty. Especially since we probably won't get any plastic until the REAL codex comes out anyway.

Hell **** that, I'd sooner just use my own fandex, which at least TRIES to keep sisters up with fifth edition than this crap.

It may just be me, but all we have is a handful of rumors that only give us a vague idea how the book works. I would suggest waiting until the final book before getting the pitch forks out at least....

I personally am not convinced from the current rumors that thier has been anything changed that would cripple the army.

[Melissia]

The army's already effectively crippled in C:WH. Sure it can hold a gun, but it can't dance and it has no momentum for throwing punches, nor can it drive any tanks.

[andrewm9]

It may just be me, but all we have is a handful of rumors that only give us a vague idea how the book works. I would suggest waiting until the final book before getting the pitch forks out at least....

I personally am not convinced from the current rumors that thier has been anything changed that would cripple the army.

The rumors indicate that next to no units have been added to the army and instead the opposite is true. Having lost all teh Inqusition elements like Inquisitors and Assassins alonh with the Inquisitorial stormtroopers is a blow. The choices ofr the codex have slimmed down even more. Sisters and the Ecclesiarchy elements currently make up 1 Special Character and 13 units not counting the transport including the Palatine, the Immolator, and the Priest. The Palatine really is a bad idea considerign the boost of the Canoness over her at 10 more points, the Immolator is really just a transport not a real Heavy Support, and the Priest can't be used as your real HQ and in fact is really just a unit upgrade.

Most 5th edition codexes have 20+ units without transports and 6+ special characters. Most have several possible army builds with a few competitive ones. Combine that with the appearance of lack of strong faith options and its no wonder that people are concerned. It woudl also seem that with no new models this 'test bed' is going to fail since the success of a codex is measured by model sales. No new models or price decreases means no real sales usually

I don't want to say the sky is falling and I really want to believe this is going to be a good codex but it doesn't look good based on what we know. I will reserve final judgement until i see the new rules and costs. Hopefully its well edited and teh Rhinos actually have fire points and exit points. In short it looks liek they are only taking away and "modernizing" the codex and not really adding anything. How would a Space Marine player feel if the codexes were rewritten and they lost half the codex and gained nothing.

[CouchViking]

, I just hope they leave that little bit of sexiness in there for us sad old married types

Hahaha...... I wish I didn't know how you felt though.:(

[Lockark]

The rumors indicate that next to no units have been added to the army and instead the opposite is true. Having lost all teh Inqusition elements like Inquisitors and Assassins alonh with the Inquisitorial stormtroopers is a blow.

Hold it.

I'm sorry but Confessors are new but are also bassicly Inquisitors by another name, and basically have all the options for henchmen that GK inquisitors have.

The rumors said Assassins were gone, but I never read anything that said the storm troopers were gone. For all we know they could be staying or getting a replacement like inquisitors.

Also for all we know Franis Militia could be reintroduced, since they could be a troop choice that would be easy to convert using some of the current plastic kits. Their is still allot their that they could do, since GW has shown it's cool with having entries with no models.

The trick will be what they can come up with, that will fit the army and be able to be easily converted.



Most 5th edition codexes have 20+ units without transports and 6+ special characters. Most have several possible army builds with a few competitive ones. Combine that with the appearance of lack of strong faith options and its no wonder that people are concerned. It woudl also seem that with no new models this 'test bed' is going to fail since the success of a codex is measured by model sales. No new models or price decreases means no real sales usually


I'm still not convinced the removal of the old faith system will cripple the book. I remember when the new Imperial Guard book came out and guard players were flipping their **** that doctrinaires were being removed and that it was going to cripple the army.

(Heck. Same when ever any gimmicky army mechanic is removed from a book.)

A new mechanic also coming with new point coasts that will help balance it all out.



I don't want to say the sky is falling and I really want to believe this is going to be a good codex but it doesn't look good based on what we know. I will reserve final judgement until i see the new rules and costs. Hopefully its well edited and teh Rhinos actually have fire points and exit points.


I don't think this is going to be a amazing codex, but I dough this codex is going to be terrible. I think it's going to be "good" in that it will re-point the army for 5th, and bring it up to speed with the current design philosophies.

[Lancel]

There was a post on Dakka from the Cities of Death strategems in this month's White Dwarf. Note that it explicitly mentions to look at the next issue for more details.

It discusses their strategem being related to buildings and a consecrated shrine which gives them extra faith. Any Sister unit inside a consecrated shrine counts as having a Simulacrum Imperialis and if they pass their faith test, you can roll a D6 and on a 5 or 6 your army gains a Faith Point.

It also explicitly mentions to see the next issue for more details on this.

Works within what we know, but only one faith point amidst the many seems somewhat weak? Maybe that's the intention. Biggest note I think is that the Simulacrum Imperialis is confirmed to still be in in some shape or form.

I think it also confirms that the faith pool is army wide.

[DarkLink]

Having lost all teh Inqusition elements like Inquisitors and Assassins alonh with the Inquisitorial stormtroopers is a blow.

Well, the old Inquisitor units sucked anyways. So do most of the new ones, too, but at least there's a few competitive Inquisitor units. And since the rumors claim that they'll have a set of units very similar to the GK henchmen squads, I wouldn't complain until we know more.

[Necron2.0]

I've not been into 40K for long, so this will be my first dance with the WD Codex prance.

This may be a something obvious for the old grognards of 40K, but with GW's current fetish for secrecy, and buying into the rumor that a real codex is/has been in the works, is it likely that the WD Codex will be something altogether alien and divorced from the actual Codex rules being developed? After all, if GW actually is creating a real Codex, this WD Codex could only be seen as a preview ... and we all know how much GW loves giving previews.

[Kawauso]

I've not been into 40K for long, so this will be my first dance with the WD Codex prance.

This may be a something obvious for the old grognards of 40K, but with GW's current fetish for secrecy, and buying into the rumor that a real codex is/has been in the works, is it likely that the WD Codex will be something altogether alien and divorced from the actual Codex rules being developed? After all, if GW actually is creating a real Codex, this WD Codex could only be seen as a preview ... and we all know how much GW loves giving previews.



The Blood Angels PDF codex was pretty much like the codex they got for 5th...

Except the only unique units they had (over vanilla marines) were the Baal Predator (no flamestorm option) and the regular Furioso Dreadnought (no blood talons or frag cannon or magna grapple options).
And Death Company, of course. No DC dreads, though.

And all of the units were overpriced. And there was no Descent of Angels. And I don't remember any of their old psychic powers because I don't think they were much/any good.

So their 5th 'dex compared to its previous White Dwarf/PDF incarnation was a completely different beast.

So I would expect if this WD 'dex is like the last one, it will be altogether alien and divorced from any 'real' codex the Sisters might get someday.

UNLESS, that is, GW is doing something completely new with the White Dwarf approach this time.

[MadCowCrazy]

Hold it.

I'm sorry but Confessors are new but are also bassicly Inquisitors by another name, and basically have all the options for henchmen that GK inquisitors have.

WRONG!

Codex: Sisters of Battle 2E, page 55 : Confessor
Your army may be led by a Confessor of the Adeptus Ministorum or he may be included as an independent character.

It's not a new unit, they are just going back to how it should have been all along.
Since GKs get the Inquisitors they Sisters are getting their old ministorum units.

Here are some of the old ministorum units I wouldn't be surprised if made it into the new Sisters dex, probably as henchmen.

- Confessor HQ
Missionary
Preacher
Frateris Militia Band
Zealots

Here are some old Special Characters that will probably make their way back, some of them even have models still.

Saint Praxedes of Ophelia VII - SC Canoness

Helena the Virtuous, Prioress of the Convent Sanctorum

Uriah Jacobus, Protector of the Faith - SC Priest - Has model

Redemptor Kyrinov, Arch-Confessor - SC Confessor - Has model

Cardinal Armandus Helfire

[Melissia]

Taht's second edition.

[MadCowCrazy]

Taht's second edition.

True but it still doesn't make the Confessor a new unit, just an old one they are bringing back because they are reverting back to how the sisters codex used to be.

Weren't you the one who said they should never have made Codex: Witch Hunters and continued on with Codex: Sisters of Battle?

[Melissia]

That sounds like something I could have said, yes. I never though ham-fistedly adding in Inquisition was a good idea.

[Lockark]

WRONG!


The rules make it a Inquisitor by another name.

Fluff or other wise. Just Say'in.

[Gir]

The Blood Angels PDF codex was pretty much like the codex they got for 5th...


It was completely different.

[Lemt]

Well, I've got to say I like that SoB no longer are an Inquisition codex.

[Melissia]

Well, I've got to say I like that SoB no longer are an Inquisition codex.

Yes, once again Sisters will have their own dedicated codex. Too bad it's not a real codex though, just a WD/PDF one.

[Lancel]

Yes, once again Sisters will have their own dedicated codex. Too bad it's not a real codex though, just a WD/PDF one.

Kinda one step forward, two steps back. We'll see how the rules turn out though, as long as they're fun to play.

[MadCowCrazy]

Kinda one step forward, two steps back. We'll see how the rules turn out though, as long as they're fun to play.

Problem is GWs view on fun is very different from most peoples. I regard balanced rules and units that compete with each other to be chosen in your army because they are interesting and good to be a "fun codex to play".
GW considers throwing something together at random whilst making the most expensive kits the best units in your army so that when you realise your old models dont work you are forced to buy the new kits to be semi competitive.

Even though I'm sad about this WD dex I'm still so desperate for anything that I'm starting to look forwards to it.

[Lemt]

Just remember that hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment.

[Necron2.0]

Just remember that hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment.

That is why I am a pessimist!

Under the best of circumstances the best that can happen is only what an optimist expected all along, therefore optimists are in for a lifetime of disappointment. Pessimists can at least hope to be pleasantly surprised once in awhile.

[HsojVvad]

Just saw this posted on Dakka Dakka. Surprised I didn't see it here, guess Eldargal is busy. :p

Not sure if this is new or not, but seeing how they are talking about a plastic Sisters release, this is new since I see alot of people complaining about no new models. So maybe some minis will be released in August then with plastic sisters then?

Well onto the Dakka Dakka post I saw:

A few sisters of battle Tidbits.

Some info about the sister’s codex coming out this fall:

The Sisters of Battle codex is taking a step away from the old codex’s focus on the Inquisition, and is now more of a codex focused on the Ecclesiarchy. The codex will represent the sisters much more truly to their roots in the fluff, and the non sister codex allies have been changed accordingly. More than many codexes’, the new Codex for sisters really feels like a brand new Codex.
Ok, so let’s start with the sisters themselves.

Redone in plastic, the sisters look great. While they won’t look out of place with the sisters of the past, they look much more like members of the church, though the over all look of the armor is very similar, if more ornate. The box set comes with enough plastic to make five sisters, but while we are only getting five girls per box, we are gaining a host of new options. The box contains bits to configure them as either regular sisters or Seraphim, and has tons of cool little extra bits to really make each unit unique. Gone are the Inquisition =I=’s, usually replaced with the fleur-de-lis. I counted eleven heads total, with five helmets, five without helmets and one with a gasmask / respirator type thing. Each of the eleven heads was a unique sculpt. The entire kit just really shows how far molds and model making has come since the days when our old sisters were cast, and while I would have been the first to scream heresy a year ago if you told me the sisters were changing, I have to say that the new ones really look fantastic.


I would like to take a moment to talk about their legs as well. I have always considered myself a modeler/painter first and a gamer second and one of the things that always bothered me about the old sisters were their legs. Like all metal miniatures, moding them was hard, and no sisters really had dynamic posses. The new legs have me really excited because they are very dynamic. I guess I would best compare them to the BA legs from their recent release. They really offer a lot of options in terms of modeling and are really one of the most exciting parts of the kit, in my opinion.


For weapon options the kit comes with a flamer, melt gun, storm bolter and pistol flamer as well as two guns I didn’t recognize including a weird rifle type thing and some gun that looked like a pistol from the 18th century with a torch bracket jammed on the end. There is a right and left handed version of both the pistol flamer and the other weird pistol. There were of course bolters / bolt pistols and both a power weapon and some chain swords. What I really liked about the weapons was their level of detail and individuality. Even though they are the same war gear a squad of space marines might field every piece of equipment screams sisters, and while easily recognizable is quite different from their marine counterparts. I want to say the weapons are smaller, but they might just be sleeker. One of the bolters comes with a strap.

The last thing I will mention about this new kit is that the jetpacks for the seraphim look much more like, well, like jet packs.


The Penitent engine is back in beautiful, mod-able plastic, and thankfully the remained true to its old design in many ways. It has four different options for its two close combat weapons, though I believe they are just aesthetics, and comes with parts to mount either flamer’s or melta’s under its arms. Looking at the kit, I believe its legs are possible similarly to the sentinels as it has a ball joint for its feet and little nubs / indents at the joint in its leg, which is very exciting since that will give us a lot more options when it comes to dynamic poses. Along with the weapons you also get several choices for drivers 3 icon badge things from the major sisters’ factions. A few other miscellaneous pieces like a scroll plate and such finish off the fun little extra bits.

The repressor is finally making an appearance in plastic as well. It looks similar to the FW one, but has the turret reworked and a different dozer blade. It comes with quite a few options to sister it up, from the same three icons I mentioned above, though slightly bigger, to numerous scrolls and of course options for sister doors. The driver has options for a helmeted head or a regular bobcat sister head with a little microphone thingy.

There is also a kit for a new priest, which I could best compare to the empire wizard kit. Fantasy players will know what I am talking about. There are numerous heads from the bald friar look to the crazy bearded look. Additionally we have options for plasma pistols, bolt pistols, and flamer pistols as well as a book arm and of course a gigantic chain sword. The model doesn’t have anything in the way of armor, though the chain sword looks almost big enough that he could hide behind it.

Well that’s all I have for you for now. Sorry I haven’t much in the way of rules, and that’s always the really exciting part, but I though some folks might like to know a little bit about the new models.

Cheers,
Sexxy Camera

[HsojVvad]

Here is more Sisters rumors. Again sorry if posted before, didn't see them.

BramGaunt wrote:
Astraeos wrote:
The rumours are stating that it'll be a White Dwarf codex. I wouldn't expect any better than some fancy new special rules and brining he list up to date.

Afaik that's exactly what sisters will get, but that does not mean that there aren't some new miniatures in the future. Just to tell you: I was told that there won't be any sisters miniatures alongside with this WD release. They are not that far away, though.
(...)
None of what I said actually HAS to be true, it's just what I told. I'd be happy with new plastic sets, I just wanted to make people aware of the possibility that they may not be out that soon.

Not far away as in not that far away. Remember Warriors of Chaos, who had a WD List for about 6 months?

Current summary by Algorath over at Warseer:
Time frame:
August 2011 White Dwarf/ September second half (?)

Rules:

All Faith generating units get +6 invul save
All units that can get transports get Immolators or Rhinos
No Repressor.
No Arbites

(5) HQ Choices:
Saint Celestine confirmed: "Same price as a Grand Master you get 2+/+4 saves, WS/BS 7 Jump Pack, Fleet, Power Weapons always wounds on 4+ Has the power to come back like GK Thawn if killed."

Cannoness Confirmed

Confessor confirmed: Can bring henchmen in a unit, re-rolls failed to hit and wound for both (her?) and squad.

Elite:
Celestians: Cheaper than 15p, 2 attacks. re-roll to hit

Troop:
Battle Sisters: x10-20 squad with options for Flamers, Heavy Bolters, Meltaguns and Heavy Flamers,

Fast:
Dominion Squads: 4 Special Weapons Weapons become twin-linked

Seraphim: Below 15p; same stats/abilities, melta pistols are now Assault 2. Re-roll to Wound


Heavy:
Exorcist: Roughly same.

Penitent Engines: Same Stats, squadrons, 1d6 attacks w/ wounds generating additional attacks, ++6 i save.

Retributors Squad: Cheaper Weapons Rend(?)

Unsure:
Priests: Same

Repentia: have scout/infiltrate (?), fleet, "Cheaper close to SM cost. FNP, Rage, Fearless, 6+ invul, no transports" Still make attacks if killed.

FAITH
Faith is changing, seems:
Only faithful units can use Faith.
Units have individual Acts of Faith.
Faith powers work with 5+ on d6.
Faithful units generate 1d6 Faith "per turn".
Everything else is unsure ATM.


Models:

Resin:

Nothing yet.

Plastics:

Battle Sisters/Seraphim (x5 per box)
Pentient Enigne
Priest
Repentia (x10 per box)
Repressor (Vehicle)

WD Codex has no Repressor, but a new Repressor model is listed. Makes sense when, as BramGaunt says, Sororitas get their full Codex first half 2012 with all the models listed.

[Lancel]

I think we've seen it before, I have it at least as a copy linked on Page 16. It's a few months old. The Repressor bit still puzzles me, as reportedly it's not in the WD Codex. Right now theories on the Sisters are all across the board, between this being it for a while, forever, and being it for all of six months.

If all that is true though it's indicative of the full codex being still on its way to give stats for the Repressor. Of course it also means that we're not likely to get many models with the WD release while they wait for the full Codex, but it might at least mean the real Codex is coming at some indeterminate time in the near future. But hey, isn't it always? (/obligatory cynicism)

Edit: And that second part too, there's also another part to that second rumor. http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2011/06/15/network-news-sisters-of-battle-rumor-round-2/

[Melissia]

Yeah but that's BoK so I don't care.

[Lancel]

They kinda lost me at Penitent Engines being awesome with the same stat line.

[MadCowCrazy]

They kinda lost me at Penitent Engines being awesome with the same stat line.

Well, it's basically the same thing as an open topped killa kan with ws and bs switched. Sooooo if they go down to 35-40pts each they might just be worth taking. As BoK were unclear on the number you could put in a squadron (either 3 like now or 9) I could see them becoming rather fun to field if you could have 28 on the board...

Most likely you can only field 3 squadrons of 3 each for a max of 9 like now but still, 28 walkers in a single army would just be so damn fun! They are pathetically easy to destroy (2+ on pen with a melta) so I could see you being able to field much larger units of them.

[Lancel]

Random person posted this:


Sisters will be getting a standard book, but it will certainly be coming well after the Necron book. Talked to my source this last weekend. The WD codex for sisters is simply a holdover till 6th ed. for now. Also its apparently a "filler" codex because the necron book and models were delayed in
Production and wouldn't get released till november (this was apparently decided 6 months ago). The WD sisters codex was rushed btw and wasn't thoroughly playtested.

Salt may be necessary, but found it amusing nonetheless. We'll probably know for certain soon enough. Actually it might explain the rumors on the rules sounding so conservative and relying mostly on point reductions, with the only major changes being a change to Acts of Faith and the 6++ across the board. If they didn't have much time, then they may have opted to play it safe.

[Melissia]

I still find that more believable than BoK's rumors.

[Verilance]

I wish we had something more concrete by now, I keep reading speculation elsewhere that there will be no models released which has me confused.

How can GW justify releasing even a WD codex if it cannot be played? The unavailability of the models means getting SoB metals are impossible around here unless you buy from direct sales. I have wanted to start a SoB army for years but I don't want to buy online. I want to be able to go to my local shop I have been supporting for years and buy them there.


http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/5935/fors.jpg

Order of the Flames of Redemption

first mock up of my Orders insignia, they are a break away Order from the Ebon Chalice, dedicated to the memory of seven heroic martyrs who fell defending a basilica/scholam from a encroaching heretic army

[Lancel]

I wonder if the Storm of Magic thing had a lot of people distracted. Anyway, we just don't know yet how this is going to work, we have strong indication there will be models at some point but because the codex got White Dwarfed we have no idea when. No source has given any indication on what's going on there, so it's anything from new models now to new models in two years with Finecast now to nothing at all. The grapevine suggests there will be a true print codex "soon", and that's something like the Spring or an early 6th Edition codex, and the models will definitely be out with that, if that's accurate, but for the White Dwarf release most are expecting, at best, a Finecast re-release of existing sculpts, but the model release is all speculation. Even the full print codex is a little vague on details.

[JMichael]

I just ordered another Immolator from gw.com and it came without a box or instructions. Spru only.
Just 4 months ago I was receiving the boxes and instructions.
Maybe this is at the very least a sign that they are redesigning the box (which did say Sisters of Battle Immolator)

[eldargal]

That would be a fairly strong indication that the kits are being reboxed as is usual with a new release. It may also indicate other models will be released at the same time, why bother reboxing your existing range if you aren't adding to it? A whole lot of expense for no good reason.

[Melissia]

When has that stopped GW?

[eldargal]

GW tend not to spend money without a reason, even if it is not a reason the fanbase appreciates. In this case why would they spend money reboxing existing kits when they don't have to.

[Melissia]

To make it look new without producing any actual new models for a lazily done PDF codex intended mostly to get rid of allies rules?

[eldargal]

And again, why bother? They are reboxing Necrons too, incidentally. Both ranges having new plastic kits ready to go. I mean it makes no sense, they spend money on new steel moulds for the SoB plastics, then they spend money reboxing the existing range, and then they don't release the new models?

[Melissia]

Sure, they'll release them... for teh real codex. The PDF one is just a tossed bone, as it were.

[eldargal]

Its possible, but then the real codex must be very soon or they wouldn't be reboxing them now along with Necrons. Things get boxed a few months in advanced not 6,12,18 etc. months in advance.

[SMC]

I want new sisters kits so I can be the first guy to complain that they don't come with a sandwich bit on the sprue.

[eldargal]

Easy to convert with plasticard and little greenstuff salad leaves.

[Melissia]

Its possible, but then the real codex must be very soon or they wouldn't be reboxing them now along with Necrons. Things get boxed a few months in advanced not 6,12,18 etc. months in advance.My cynicism of how GW handles Sisters is still doubtful. My best guess is they rebox things and say OMG NEW! but only offer metal/crappy overly expensive finecast versions of old models for the crappy PDF codex, saving all the real releases that actually offer something new for the real codex.

Why would they release high quality plastics with a crappy filler codex when a real codex is soon* to be delivered (*in business terms of within a year, which is what the rumors have thus far been suggesting).

[Lancel]

GW tend not to spend money without a reason, even if it is not a reason the fanbase appreciates. In this case why would they spend money reboxing existing kits when they don't have to.

It could also, unfortunately, be that they finally sold all of the boxed kits and are too lazy/cheap to make new boxes. I mean heck, the Exorcist I don't think ever had a box.


My cynicism of how GW handles Sisters is still doubtful. My best guess is they rebox things and say OMG NEW! but only offer metal/crappy overly expensive finecast versions of old models for the crappy PDF codex, saving all the real releases that actually offer something new for the real codex.

Why would they release high quality plastics with a crappy filler codex when a real codex is soon* to be delivered (*in business terms of within a year, which is what the rumors have thus far been suggesting).

Annnd that's pretty much my theory, too. Rebox existing stuff now and throw Finecast infantry at us, giving all the Sisters stuff their modern packaging to make a unified appearance fit to be put on shelves again without offering anything significantly new until the full print Codex, whenever that comes out.

[Verilance]

It could also, unfortunately, be that they finally sold all of the boxed kits and are too lazy/cheap to make new boxes. I mean heck, the Exorcist I don't think ever had a box.

it sure did as I have one sitting beside me sadly unfinished.

[Lancel]

it sure did as I have one sitting beside me sadly unfinished.

Oh, cool, I only ever got brown boxes for them. :(

[George Labour]

has anyone pointed our the irony on the lack of faith revolving around the army that's big schtick is faith overcoming terrors and situations where logic says all hope is lost?

Well they're also well known for setting things on fire, but I see plenty of fans doing that already. ^^

I'm actually praying that this gives me a reason to pick up some sisters, finecast or no. My Tejasian guardsmen could use a good moral example to keep them from engaging in 'just ain't right' pursuits.

[Lancel]

has anyone pointed our the irony on the lack of faith revolving around the army that's big schtick is faith overcoming terrors and situations where logic says all hope is lost?

Yes, several. :P Rumors suggest our faith may have been nerfed. :P