View Full Version : Dual portaling Librarians
michael8
09-02-2009, 04:39 PM
Here is an army idea i have been trowing around in my head, and I'd like to get some ideas from others, as well as any criticisms before I go out and get the models. I have always loved librarians, and the Space Marine ones seem pretty cool too ;)
Anyways, here goes:
HQ:
2x Librarian in Terminator Armor with storm shield with Gate of Infinity and Vortex of Doom (Maybe nullzone depending on the army I go against)
Elite:
2x Sternguard squads- 2 meltas and 7 combi-meltas (can be changed to combi-flamers depending on opponent again)
Fast Attack:
3x Scout Bike squads 4 models each with Locator beacons and melta bombs on the sarges
Troops:
3x Tac squads with meltas and multi-meltas.
Comes to about 2000 points plus/minus 10, I don't have my codex on hand.
Sternguards teleport around with the librarians, using the locator beacons from the bikes to keep from scattering. It is all pretty self explanatory really.
I think it would be a really fun army to play with, having the scouts turbo boost around and guide the librarians in to kill everything around. Has plenty of anti-tank, although the anti-horde aspect is missing. But, the combis on the Sternguard can be changed to flamers, and that will deal with horde really well.
So any comments or ideas are appreciated. I'm sure I have not been the first person to think this up, so if there are some other posts about this type of army, I'd love the links.
Thanks
AirHorse
09-02-2009, 04:45 PM
seems like a fun idea, but for 2000points it seems a bit lacking in overall oomph, and maybe a bit low in body count. Are those tactical marines in rhinos btw?
michael8
09-02-2009, 05:37 PM
Yes those are tactical marines, but not in rhinos.
That was one of the glaring weaknesses to me, no way to move my troops around like I would need to for objectives, and the added protection is nice as well. Mech is the king of 5th right?
Maybe drop one of the scout biker squads, and take 3 rhinos?
As far as body count, that is almost 60 marines on the table, doesn't seem too low for a SM army in my experience. Maybe because I usually play only 1750 point games . . .
brother drakist
09-02-2009, 05:46 PM
Are you planning on having the Librarians port the troops around? If so it could be interesting to see some late game wins, however whenever the Librarian ports a squad scatter is an an issue. Could be pretty dangerous ....it's only a matter of time before you roll that "oh crap I think I ported/landed off the table."
Chumbalaya
09-02-2009, 10:15 PM
Scout bikes aren't too robust, so you may run into problems with them dying.
20 marines being the entirety of your force is worrying, especially if the vortex backfires. I'd just stick with combi-weapons to get the most out of your special ammo.
Scouts might serve you better to infiltrate on top of objectives and hold them down, or Pods with locater beacons (less obvious target).
Overall it suffers from an "all eggs in two baskets" syndrome, just not enough men or firepower to wipe an entire army.
GreenMarines
09-03-2009, 03:47 AM
HQ:
2x Librarian in Terminator Armor with storm shield with Gate of Infinity and Vortex of Doom (Maybe nullzone depending on the army I go against)
Elite:
2x Sternguard squads- 2 meltas and 7 combi-meltas (can be changed to combi-flamers depending on opponent again)
I Like the idea of this two units. Combined with the scoutbikes you will get them where you want and need. But you have only this two threatening units. So you can kill only two enemy units in one turn and will be eaten in CC afterwards.
You will also be vulnerable to templates. Especially plasma canon and other low penetration templates will be your death. I think of this often used Executioner or Demolisher or Vidicator...
As you said earlier skip one bike unit and get your tact squads rhinos. So you can support the Sernguards and with flamer and combiflamer in the tact squads you will have the antihorde.
AirHorse
09-03-2009, 04:22 AM
the only reason i say its low in body count is because none of those units are that survivable, ap3 isnt that hard to come by these days, especially not in large template form.
I would say spend less points on melta weapons in your sternguard squads, 3 or 4 combi-melta max for when you need to take down a vehicle, so much melta feels like a waste of what sternguard are expensive for. maybe with the points saved on melta in your sternguard you can get rhinos for your tactical marines so they can bring their melta weapons to bear so your sternguard arent trying to do everything at once.
Alvena
09-03-2009, 08:54 AM
i love your idea to teleport at evry turn, but since your archivist will join the Sternguard why do you give him the terminator armor ? wouldnt be cheaper and as effective if he was wearing his standard power amor ?
mkerr
09-03-2009, 09:38 AM
@michael8: I always love new army lists. This one definitely has a Veil of Darkness feel to it!
0. You shouldn't build army lists that can be "tailored" to your opponent. Just build an all-comers list. It's not much fun for a player when you change out psychic powers/combi-weapons just to deal with his army list (and you can't do this in tournaments).
1. Drop the Terminator armor. Put Veil fo Doom on one of the Librarians and maybe The Avenger on the other. Definitely don't use Vortex of Doom -- you'll wipe out your squad on a psychic test failure.
2. Every Sternguard should have a Bolter or a Combi-weapon. You give up too much when you "upgrade" to a meltagun. The sergeant should have a Bolter too.
3. I don't think you really need Meltabombs on the Scout Bike sergeants. You might want to look into a couple of Astartes Grenade Launchers -- rapid fire S6 weapons are pretty awesome (even thought they are a bit pricey). Or consider Cluster Mines -- you are going to be avoiding difficult terrain anyway.
4. I probably wouldn't go with 3 squads of Scout bikes. I think that 2 squads are plenty.
5. Consider drop pods with Locator Beacons for your Tactical squads.
Sounds like a fun army, but it depends really heavily on your Sternguard. You are going to have leadership problems (but at least the psychic hoods will protect your sternguard a bit) and you'll suffer from being a pretty fragile army. Mystics are going to easily counter you in the tournament scene, so I don't see this working more than once in a tournament, lol.
Best of luck and let us know how it plays!
-- mkerr
Chumbalaya
09-03-2009, 10:43 AM
I would definitely stick with the Terminator armor, so he can take an AP3 hit on chin with his 2+ save or an AP2/1 hit with his 3+ invulnerable.
mkerr
09-03-2009, 11:53 AM
I would definitely stick with the Terminator armor, so he can take an AP3 hit on chin with his 2+ save or an AP2/1 hit with his 3+ invulnerable.
Normally, I'm supportive of a single good Invulnerable save in a unit (and a single 2+ save can be really handy), but I wouldn't do it in this army because of your "dual porting" theme.
A 2+/3+ save on your Librarian is going to temp you into making bad decisions. The vast majority of the low AP shots that you are going to face are going to be of the S8+ variety - especially when they come in individual wounds. Plasma isn't going to be this army's problem.
You'll end up asking yourself if you feel lucky enough to put that single battle cannon wound on your Librarian. ("I do have a 83% chance of saving...") You roll a 1 and your "porting librarian" strategy is over.
I'm still smarting over taking that chance in the last Ard Boyz event against Darkwynne's Imperial Guard, lol. You'd think of all my years playing Sisters would've taught me to avoid the temptation.
As always, your mileage may vary.
Exitus Acta Probat
09-03-2009, 12:41 PM
A friend of mine runs a dbl 'porting librarian list...he has a BLAST with it...and if I'm not playing with daemonhunter allies, it's a challenge (did that once, didn't do it again...no fun for either of us) even meched up and mobile.
try 2x tactical terminator squads for weight of fire (cyclones), storm shields on the Librarian termies and an assault termie squad (he has gone back and forth on assault termies...he's convinced of his 3x vindicator combo, I am generally more scared of his assault termies surviving...they draw A LOT of my fire.
You can decide (depending on your opponent) whether to attach the second libby to the assault termie squad, or just deep strike it in off of a beacon later.
michael8
09-03-2009, 12:42 PM
Thanks for the input guys. Appreciate the comments.
I originally wanted the survivability for the Librarians with e termi armor/SS, but I tend to agree with Mkerr about the dumb decisions, because I do tend to play aggressively. I twas thinking of dropping the termi/SS to pick up a dakka pred-autocannon and HB sponsons. Thought that would give another threat for the army besides the sternguard. Also good for anti-horde with good ROF and good for popping transports.
Also wanted to drop one of the scout bike squads to get rides for my tac squads, make them more survivable and mobile. Although I really liked the idea of 3 possible insertion points offered by the extra squad. That way they can infiltrate and my opponent won't know where I will hit first. Keep him guessing.
Next would be to drop the meltas from the sternguard, and i think I'll go half and half combi-melta/combi-flamer for added versatitlity.
Also, the Avenger sounds good as a second power, but isn't it a template? And if so it'll be hard to get that off being surrounded by sternguard after each port. They will block its use right?
Thanks again for the comments, keep them coming please!
michael8
09-03-2009, 02:18 PM
So here is the revised list after the feedback so far.
HQ-300 pts
2x Librarian (Epistolary) Gate of Infinity and Avenger(unsure of the second power to choose, comments would be appreciated)
Troops-660 pts
3x Tactical Squad with melta, multi-melta and Rhino
Fast Attack-280 pts
2x Scout Bike Squad (3 models each) with locator beacons and melta-bombs on the sarges
ELite-590 pts
2x Sternguard Squads (10 models) 5x combi-melta 4x combi-flamer
Heavy Support-170 pts
2x Predator with Autocannon and heavy bolter sponsons
Total of 2000 points
I think this is a more rounded list. I really took Chumbalaya's comment to heart about the all the eggs in 2 baskets. So I thinned the librarians down, cut a bike squad, and added in the 2x predators and rhinos for my troops.
Comments please!
Aceshigh
09-03-2009, 02:18 PM
i applaude your ingenuity with the whole teleporting army thats a cool idea man, but like everyone has stated the low model count could be a problem in the long haul. Not to mention what if you lose the beacons for your teleporting that could be a real bad situation to put your guys in:eek:
Chumbalaya
09-03-2009, 06:54 PM
Eh, I'll take the odds of a 2+ save passing. The whole army is a risk anyway so there's no point shying away from it ;)
I'd pick Null zone for a second power. The Librarian forms the center of his unit when the teleport, so Avenger never gets used, but Null Zone will help your Sternies mess up units like Daemons, TH/SS Termies, Eldar Seer Councils, and the like. Otherwise, a 5+ invul for the whole unit is mighty handy.
GMort.
09-04-2009, 09:02 AM
If your relying on psychic powers to make your army work then your going to have problems against any Eldar player who has Runes.
Which is going to be all of them, lol.
mkerr
09-05-2009, 04:05 PM
The Librarian forms the center of his unit when the teleport, so Avenger never gets used..(snip)
There's no requirement to put the Librarian at the center of the unit.
I'd definitely go with The Avenger as my second power.
-- mkerr
Hmmm. I'm not certain the beacons are useful to you. Without a good FAQ: Gate is not actually the same this as teleporting. The discussions at B&C indicate as a mechanic you Gate like you were deep striking as if teleporting, but teleporting is not the same thing as stepping through warp space. Its one of those loopholes the designers did not think of when they created gate as a spell. I'd rather hilight the scout bikes deploying mines or such...Other than that, I have used the libby-stern as a tool, but use gate and dome as the spells - the libby and stern will benefit from a 5+ invulnerable save...
mkerr
09-06-2009, 01:29 AM
Hmmm. I'm not certain the beacons are useful to you. Without a good FAQ: Gate is not actually the same this as teleporting.
The unit is deployed by deep strike ("using the deep strike rules"), so locator beacons will work just fine. If the unit also happens to be in Terminator Armor, then they can use teleport beacons as well.
-- mkerr
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