GW Censorship of Negative Feedback

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

I have been BLOCKED from commenting on the GW Facebook site because I pointed out the inadequacies of their Finecast range (even though I had also said was looking forward to them getting it right!)...also, I did liken their censorship of negative feedback as 'like the Iranian Government'...and so they've proven me right I suppose!

[Deadlift]

I have been BLOCKED from commenting on the GW Facebook site because I pointed out the inadequacies of their Finecast range (even though I had also said was looking forward to them getting it right!)...also, I did liken their censorship of negative feedback as 'like the Iranian Government'...and so they've proven me right I suppose!

If you really want to upset them you could create multiple facebook accounts and bombard the GW page with the same sentiment.

[eldargal]

Well it is their facebook page, they can do what they like. Not a good look, but given how much ridiculous anti-Finecast stuff there is flying about (as distincy from genuine criticism where it is warranted) I can't really blame them.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

I just disapprove strongly of deleting negative feedback where it is constructive (I CAN understand them deleting the Iranian government comment though - I kinda lost my rag) and they seem to do so all the time, until what is left is nothing but glowing reports from those luck enough to get a top notch Finecast (which I STILL think will be awesome once they've sorted out the casting problems). Three things are bothering me about GW at present.

1) They do NOT listen to their customers. Of COURSE those dissatisfied will make the most noise, but ignoring the voices doesn't make them go away. Other gaming systems and miniature providers are having a boom time because of this (seriously, I'd never heard of some of these systems until very recently). They are an arrogant company that should learn some humility if they want to increase rather than decrease their popularity.

2) Prices rises - these should not be year-on-year rises and certainly not rising the amount they have, in some cases 26%. I think this is unacceptable. Sure, we don't have to buy their products. The hobby is certainly a very expensive way of gaming, and if they want to ensure a 25p per share return for their investors next year, I think they are going the wrong way about it.

3) Censoring opinion - Yes, it is entirely up to them what they do with their site. But censoring people with GENUINE, Non-abusive questions and concerns isn't on, especially as they don't seem to have a complaints department (might be wrong on this). They are rubbing a lot of people up the wrong way, and I worry that if they aren't doing so well because of corporate arrogance, then the miniatures and books etc that I love are going to suffer because of it.

[eldargal]

I used to think GW should listen to the community more, then I looked at Warseer. Now I just think 'thank god they treat the vocal playerbase with the contempt it deserves'.:rolleyes:

Which isn't to say I disagree with your points, I just think GW would be better of commissioning market research and whatnot rather than 'listening to their customers'.

[Gir]

I used to think GW should listen to the community more, then I looked at Warseer. Now I just think 'thank god they treat the vocal playerbase with the contempt it deserves'.:rolleyes:

Which isn't to say I disagree with your points, I just think GW would be better of commissioning market research and whatnot rather than 'listening to their customers'.

This.

[Arch_Bishop]

I have been BLOCKED from commenting on the GW Facebook site because I pointed out the inadequacies of their Finecast range (even though I had also said was looking forward to them getting it right!)...also, I did liken their censorship of negative feedback as 'like the Iranian Government'...and so they've proven me right I suppose!

Not surprising.

They deleted people's post that were genuinely comparing price differences in Australia vs UK. The posters were just giving a few examples, with price breakdowns. Nothing abusive, or rude, just straight up facts.

Can't blame them though; they are just playing the game.

[MaltonNecromancer]

Originally Posted by eldargal View Post
I used to think GW should listen to the community more, then I looked at Warseer. Now I just think 'thank god they treat the vocal playerbase with the contempt it deserves'.

Which isn't to say I disagree with your points, I just think GW would be better of commissioning market research and whatnot rather than 'listening to their customers'.

Again, agreed.



I just disapprove strongly of deleting negative feedback where it is constructive

The GW Facebook page is an advert for the company - now, you may disagree on the intelligence of that decision, but ultimately, that's what it is. It's not a place to share opinions. That would be here. NO company with the slightest hint of business savvy is going to allow the fans to trash their product on their own site. They're just not. I would also point out that it's kind of a big assumption to think your feedback is constructive. If I'm honest, it's a spectacularly presumptuous thing to say; aside from your own personal opinion, what other data do you have to back it up? Businesses usually use market research, which is composed of hundreds if not thousands of people's opinions - as a result, one opinion is irrelevant, no matter how unfair that is.


(I CAN understand them deleting the Iranian government comment though - I kinda lost my rag)

You yourself admit you insulted them. That's the point where you turn from "constructive" through to "someone whose opinion is worthless". The comparison to the Iranian government is in particularly hyperbolic poor taste; you've essentially invoked Godwin's Law by proxy, comparing them to fascists just for the "crime" of deleting a comment!


But censoring people with GENUINE, Non-abusive questions and concerns isn't on, especially as they don't seem to have a complaints department (might be wrong on this).

Ultimately, if you've bought some Finecast models, you have two options. 1.) Keep them because you like them. 2.) Take them back and ask for a refund because you don't. Why on Earth would they need a complaints department when you can just take the product back to the shop? If you don't like Finecast, fine, don't buy it. But don't act like you're owed something by the company, because you're really not. If you feel the Finecast line needs cancelling, well, it won't be. They've invested a fortune in it, so it's not going to happen. If you feel their quality control needs work, just make sure you take back every imperfect model. They'll get the picture soon enough.

Ultimately, you've gone onto a GW site and publicly rubbished them. That's the equivelant of walking into a shop and loudly telling everyone who will listen how much the shop sucks. Do you honestly think they have any reason to put up with that? Imagine if you did that in a bank; you'd be in there thirty seconds before one of the security guards pulled your backside off and handed it back to you. Get some perspective: they're a business, and you had a go at them, so they kicked you out. That's what all businesses do, not just GW. You might not like it; you might think it's unfair. Well, it's life, and that's just how it is.

[Wildeybeast]

I have been BLOCKED from commenting on the GW Facebook site because I pointed out the inadequacies of their Finecast range (even though I had also said was looking forward to them getting it right!)...also, I did liken their censorship of negative feedback as 'like the Iranian Government'...and so they've proven me right I suppose!

Imagine you are a carpenter who makes fine wooden furniture. You have just launched a range of new furniture that you are really pleased about, have put a lot of time and effort into and it is getting really positive feedback from most people and you have set up a FB page to promote your furniture. Then a minority of your customers come on the page and start going on and on about "inadequacies" which are either a) cosmetic flaws which the customer can easily fix themselves
b) geniune problems caused by some flaw in manufacturing which you are aware of and have said you are happy to replace any such faulty products.
And then to top it all off some tool compares you to regime widley known for it's human rights abuses, barbaric legal system, repression of women etc etc.

I think under those circumstances I'd ban you too. In fact banning you would be the very least I would do had you been so stupidly offensive to me. Why not just go the whole hog and compare Tom Kirby to Pol Pot? You have clearly been banned for your offensive comments, so don't come on here and make out like some grave injustice has been done to you. Perhaps you should take this as a lesson to keep your stupid remarks to yourself, or at least think before opening your mouth/sitting down to your keyboard.

[isotope99]

Deleting negative comments wholesale does damage a business' credibility, but screaming and shouting (or the digital equivalent) is unlikely to elicit a positive response from the company as there is no upside for them in engaging.

Putting complaints in the form of a question is the way to go IMHO.

Something along the lines of:

What are GW doing to resolve the production problems that are leaving bubbles in the resin and some missing detail?

The complaint is implicit in the question, but it doesn't seem so aggressive.

I do agree though that GW are not very good at engaging with their customers in a constructive way at a corporate level.

[MarneusCalgar]

I used to think GW should listen to the community more, then I looked at Warseer. Now I just think 'thank god they treat the vocal playerbase with the contempt it deserves'.:rolleyes:

Which isn't to say I disagree with your points, I just think GW would be better of commissioning market research and whatnot rather than 'listening to their customers'.

Completely agree!!

It´s normal that if for 3 good comments they have on their facebook page, they have 100 bad ones, they act like that

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Here's an idea - how about NOT using a social networking site to ADVERTISE your product then? If you don't want anyone to criticise your product, perhaps a media which allows comment isn't the place for you. Anyway, I think a few people need to wind their necks in - yes, I do believe Eldargal to be right in terms of conducting market research, but I can't think of a single occasion in which GW has reached out to ask the opinions of their customers - no surveys, online or in magazine have (to my knowledge) ever been provided to the fanbase at all. I am also aware that listening to your customer base does not mean listening to solitary voices. I am sure you can all see that my voice has been one of many re: Finecast.

The Facebook page is supposed to be a place to share in aspects of the hobby - if that means some customers are having problems with a product, surely the best way to deal with it is address those people, not exclude them? I have seen lots of happy people with their new Finecast miniatures online and lots of people who got duff batches like me. So maybe an short explanation of these duff batches wouldn't go amiss?

Yeah, I can go and get a refund, which I did, but the point is that I should never have had to. Their literature and advertisements tell me that Finecast is a 'revolution in miniatures', that it is so far superior to whatever has come before, that these are the ultimate in wargaming miniature technology. So I ignore the price rise over metals, reasoning that if they are that good, it'll be worth it. I spend £5 in petrol getting to the store and back, paying £3 in parking in Ipswich town centre. I get home, remove the miniatures and find detail obliterated by air bubbling. I spend another £8 in the return journey and parking, only to find that all the other miniatures are either out of stock or have exactly the same defect. And mentioning this on their interactive Facebook site, which only recently took other complaints re: Australasian pricing seriously and posted a response from their upper management, is deleted and I am blocked.

You know, I take all the counter points into consideration - I am not exactly surprised by being blocked (I actually thought it more a funny story than being outraged by that act - I kind of thought the Iranian Comment wouldn't go down well), but I am not the only person being blocked and censored in what is being seen as a legitimate way of contacting Games Workshop with praise as well as grievances - if they did not think this way then why set precedent with the letter from management re: price rises and effective embargoes on exporters?

I am looking forward to buying perfect Finecast miniatures as advertised, Games Workshop still can produce incredible products (look at the Dark Eldar range, incredibly good!) but I think they are quite arrogant with it.

[DarkLink]

Here's an idea; how about not being surprised when you send condescending messages to GW that question the quality of their product on a public space they are using as advertisement and then they delete it.

You didn't seriously think they would do anything else, did you?

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Ok, now bored of hearing GW being defended - no-one agrees, I get it *dives*

[DarkLink]

I wouldn't so much say we're defending GW as you're attacking them over something most reasonable people would fully expect them to do.

[fuzzbuket]

I used to think GW should listen to the community more, then I looked at Warseer. Now I just think 'thank god they treat the vocal playerbase with the contempt it deserves'.:rolleyes:

Which isn't to say I disagree with your points, I just think GW would be better of commissioning market research and whatnot rather than 'listening to their customers'.

hey at least they didnt go to dakka for spelling!

but seriously a rep should just wander into a GW every now and then and ask the people what theyd like!

[wittdooley]

Ok, now bored of hearing GW being defended - no-one agrees, I get it *dives*

I won't defend GW then. I'll simply call you a fool for believing that an ignorant comment like that wouldn't get you banned from ANY company's site. Spouting vitriolic garbage is no way to make your point.

And Facebook is an absolutely appropriate place for companies to market themselves in 2011. As is Twitter. But GW's Facebook page is not, as you state, "a place to share aspects of the hobby." Hobby sites like this are.

As for Finecast: You act like this is the ONLY time you've ever recieved a defective product from ANYONE! I bought a blu-ray the other day and the disc was broken in the case. Sucks that I couldn't watch it right when I got home, but it was easily fixed. As is any issue you're going to have with a Finecast model.

And FWIW, I've never thought upon having a defective minature that, "Gee, I should go post something on Facebook." I'd wager most reasonble people think to go to Customer Service first.

[house_cawdor]

I won't defend GW then. I'll simply call you a fool for believing that an ignorant comment like that wouldn't get you banned from ANY company's site. Spouting vitriolic garbage is no way to make your point.

And Facebook is an absolutely appropriate place for companies to market themselves in 2011. As is Twitter. But GW's Facebook page is not, as you state, "a place to share aspects of the hobby." Hobby sites like this are.

As for Finecast: You act like this is the ONLY time you've ever recieved a defective product from ANYONE! I bought a blu-ray the other day and the disc was broken in the case. Sucks that I couldn't watch it right when I got home, but it was easily fixed. As is any issue you're going to have with a Finecast model.

And FWIW, I've never thought upon having a defective minature that, "Gee, I should go post something on Facebook." I'd wager most reasonble people think to go to Customer Service first.

No offense Witt, but why is it on ever thread you seem to be disagreeing or correcting someone. Its like your the GW lawyer. People can express their opinions however they'd like

[wittdooley]

No offense Witt, but why is it on ever thread you seem to be disagreeing or correcting someone. Its like your the GW lawyer. People can express their opinions however they'd like

So should I correct your numerous grammatical and spelling errors here, if that's all I do?

You're right: people can express their opinions all they want. I don't know what being a "GW lawyer" has to do with anything, however.

My opinion on the Finecast/Price Hike is as follows (even though I've stated it before):

1. I empathize with my Australian brethren in that they have to pay far too much to get their GW products from mainland Australia. It is presently out-of-touch with exchange rates, and that's unfair. However, I understand GW's "embargo," as the policies of outfits like Wayland and Maelstrom (both of whom I've offered my patronage) severely undercut GWs profit margin for the Australian market.

2. People are getting far too bent out of shape regarding casting errors with Finecast. It would be an issue if GW stated that they weren't going to replace anything. They've never said that. Further, their Customer Service is, based on the experiences of my friends and myself, excellent and prompt. Additionally, many of the casting problems (complete miscasts aside) are so easy to fix by even an novice hobbyist that the complaining falls hollow on me.

3. In the end, this is a disposable income driven luxury hobby. They aren't goods essential to the day-by-day welfare of ANYONE. As such, the resulting 'internet uproar' seems a bit silly to me.


And you're right Cawdor, everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, just as I am. The problem is that the word apologist gets tossed out plenty in regards to rational people making cogent arguments "defending" GW policies or products. I think that's such an ignorant and dismissive statement, often posted by people that can't form their own reasonable arguments. I do not only purchase GW products. I have minatures from a wide range of lines (Reaper, PP, Smart Max, Scibor, Warlord, etc) and can appreciate different things about all of them. But GW is the only company that seems to recieve such feverent hate and anger. GW-hate is a unique beast, and brings out the most ignorant things I've seen posted regarding this hobby.

[Psychosplodge]

And you're right Cawdor, everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, just as I am. .

And there we have the problem, everyone should just believe as I do then we'd all be a lot happier :D

forum threads would be a lot shorter though....:rolleyes:

[UltramarineFan]

I have been BLOCKED from commenting on the GW Facebook site because I pointed out the inadequacies of their Finecast range (even though I had also said was looking forward to them getting it right!)...also, I did liken their censorship of negative feedback as 'like the Iranian Government'...and so they've proven me right I suppose!

Well if they do they can't be very thorough, I found these comments on one of the pictures for a Finecast launch party;
'Was awesome getting my incubi box and finding an entire model missing. Thanks gw', 'What's the news on percentage returns and miss-casts?' someone else replied '100%', 'No GW store within 700 miles of my front door... no launch parties for me, ever. Glad some folks are having fun though.
Gotta ask though- if its 20% cheaper, according to GW, to make these why are we paying ~15% more per model now? Official statement GW?', 'Photo shows a whole bunch of kids being ripped off.' and others..

So if GW censor their fb page in the way you suggest then they're not very good at it

[MaltonNecromancer]

Ok, now bored of hearing GW being defended - no-one agrees, I get it *dives*

I'm not defending GW; I hate their price rises as much as the next man. It's just I accept that they're a business and that they aren't my friend.

What we're mostly doing is pointing out that you have an over-inflated sense of your own entitlement, and that you flaunt it publicly, hoping for sympathy, when in large part, your unrealistic opinion of your own self-importance is what has caused your problems: you have complained about something that's utterly pointless to complain about (no-one forced you to buy the products) and then you became aggressive on a public forum, and now you're here for sympathy. I have none for you at all. GW is perfectly entitled to run their Facebook page however they see fit: it's their page, not yours. You don't like it? Don't go there! That's why I don't; there's just no point bothering with the vapid diarrhoea that gets posted there.

I'm sorry, but ultimately, maybe if you had a legitimate complaint I'd be more inclined to see things from your point of view, but your complaints about the way companies are run are naive at best and foolish at worst.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Yeah, because you don't have an over-inflated sense of your own importance...I hope you live in interesting times...

[Uncle Nutsy]

I love this thread.

"love" in the most relative sense of the word

[Lockark]

I run a DA art gallery that in the past was regularly targeted with argumentative comments at times. (People trying to insult my art and me personally.)

I handled it by not replying to the comments and just deleting and blocking the users that were trying to troll me. By not replying to them, they quickly lost interest in me and moved on.

If I got a comment were I was being compared to Iran I would not even dignify it with a response. I would Delete the comment and block you, seeing you as nothing more then a troll looking for a reaction.


Games Workshop Handled your comment correctly in all honesty, and is really the proper way one should run their personal pages be them face book, Deviant Art, ect. It's the reason these features to block and manage the comments on thows pages exist in the 1st place. To allow one to stop trolling and fame baiting.


Now you complain that this community dose not support behavior most would view as Flame Baiting and trolling, and because we do not support your inappropriate behavior we are the villains? What odd logic you have.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

Thread lock in 3...2...1... ;)

[Xelkireth]

Well it is their facebook page, they can do what they like. Not a good look, but given how much ridiculous anti-Finecast stuff there is flying about (as distincy from genuine criticism where it is warranted) I can't really blame them.
I'm not surprised. While many companies also delete negative reviews/posts on their Facebook pages, I think blocking is a little extreme. However, on that note, they did take down their own forums.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Ok everyone, thanks for your feedback, I am worse than Hitler

[TheRise]

I agree with Eldargal.
And Unzuul... getting a bit depressed over this aren't ya? Makes me think you have a tad too much time on your hands. Perhaps get a job. Even better start a company, make a facebook page, see people making comments that your product is bad... what you gonna do? Applaude them?
Jeez man... we all know about GW, I am just getting sick of it now. You don't like them move on, go to a different games system, or quit alltogether. But realy I, and quite a lot of people, are getting sick of this and don't realy care.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Why are you posting then? I think we've established you're all right and I'm wrong, so do one. THREAD OVER

[TheRise]

Alright alright. Calm down now. Theres nothing to worry about.You're safe here.

[Ulthwé Guardian]

I'm with you Unzuul the Lascivious!!!

Love of the hobby is what keeps us together even spite of obscene price increases. I'm firm believer of internet etiquette, Unzuul admits he made a mistake of the Iranian Government, let's cut him a little slack.

We shouldn't penalise a man who has gumption and understanding..

[eldargal]

Yes ease up on the poor chap, anyone can get a bit grumpy and make an illthoughtout comment. Except me, obviously.:rolleyes:

[MarneusCalgar]

Oh, please, this is reminding me about the blog of one spanish player of 40K... He is DAILY whining against GW on the blog, everything they do is wrong, past times were the betters, moan, moan, moan, whine, and so on... And he is glad to don´t buy GW´s miniatures since years ago...

Then, why worry?? It´s not the only trader of miniatures´s games!!

[scadugenga]

Yes ease up on the poor chap, anyone can get a bit grumpy and make an illthoughtout comment. Except me, obviously.:rolleyes:

"Cretinous pillock" still makes me grin.

Now, on to the OP:

Any major company is going to try and blackball negative comments/feedback on any advert website. It's the nature of the beast.

Which is why you see "X company sucks" facebook pages, websites, etc. It provides an outlet. I work in the insurance industry, and I can guarantee you they act the same way on their twitter and facebook/myspace pages. Which is why you'll see facebook pages and websites like allstatesucks.com, and statefarmsucks.com, etc.

Nothing wrong about getting torqued off about getting blacklisted off their page, but you still have other outlets to vent your frustrations--make use of them.

The one glaring distinction I see between any major corporation and a company like GW is this: Most companies are invested in the customer--so they have complaints departments, and focus groups, and marketing departments geared to look to the customer as a means to improve their attractiveness in the marketplace and retain customers as well as attract new customers.

GW, by all their actions, perceived and realized, seems that they couldn't care less about that. The main reason that I hypothesize is that 1) they dominate a niche market, and do not feel they have any real competition, and 2) history has shown that regardless of their actions, gamers will knuckle under and still shell out money for their toy soldier addiction.

I don't foresee any change in this paradigm for GW until either #'s 1 and/or 2 change.

[Wildeybeast]

"Cretinous pillock" still makes me grin.

Now, on to the OP:

Any major company is going to try and blackball negative comments/feedback on any advert website. It's the nature of the beast.

Which is why you see "X company sucks" facebook pages, websites, etc. It provides an outlet. I work in the insurance industry, and I can guarantee you they act the same way on their twitter and facebook/myspace pages. Which is why you'll see facebook pages and websites like allstatesucks.com, and statefarmsucks.com, etc.

Nothing wrong about getting torqued off about getting blacklisted off their page, but you still have other outlets to vent your frustrations--make use of them.

The one glaring distinction I see between any major corporation and a company like GW is this: Most companies are invested in the customer--so they have complaints departments, and focus groups, and marketing departments geared to look to the customer as a means to improve their attractiveness in the marketplace and retain customers as well as attract new customers.

GW, by all their actions, perceived and realized, seems that they couldn't care less about that. The main reason that I hypothesize is that 1) they dominate a niche market, and do not feel they have any real competition, and 2) history has shown that regardless of their actions, gamers will knuckle under and still shell out money for their toy soldier addiction.

I don't foresee any change in this paradigm for GW until either #'s 1 and/or 2 change.

You make an interesting point about the lack of complaints dept, market research etc. However, GW does do these things, just not in such a structured way. For example: You have a complaint about a model missing a sprue - you take it into the store or ring up the direct orders team who sort it out for you. And GW constantly gets feedback - through store visits/Games Day/open days/meet the author sessions/ tournaments etc. I was in Bugmans the other day while the BL authors were having a get together and had I actually recognised them I could have gone up and had a chat with them. Most companies don't offer such direct access to the people in charge or have such levels of interaction with their customers which is why they have more structured ways of gathering customer views. I think that GW feels their system gives them adequate feedback and shows they are more invested in their customers than most companies, rather than them simply not caring about customer views as you seem to be implying.

[Xas]

Why are you posting then? I think we've established you're all right and I'm wrong, so do one. THREAD OVER

I think you are starting to feel a tiny bit of what the poor chap organising the GW page has to go trough.

people beating a dead horse over and over and over.


some facts:

A) GW is a company whose main goal is to make money
B) They are selling stuff non-essential for living so you can live your life without spending even 1 cent on their stuff!
C) They market their products mostly by quality so they will work to get their acts together on the resin casting sooner or later.
D) You can get a replacement/refund if something is misscast.
E) Resin >>> Metal
F) I'm allways right so worship me from this day on forevermore :P

[BuFFo]

I used to think GW should listen to the community more, then I looked at Warseer. Now I just think 'thank god they treat the vocal playerbase with the contempt it deserves'.:rolleyes:

Wrong.

Let's get one thing straight.

GW showed contempt for their customers LONG before the contempt was shown BY the customers. You are mixing which happened first here.

Customers now a days are evil creatures BECAUSE GW shat all over them for years. GW stopped listening to their customers when the customers were called hobbyists and cared about GW.


Which isn't to say I disagree with your points, I just think GW would be better of commissioning market research and whatnot rather than 'listening to their customers'.

Wrong!

Stop defending GW, seriously. You aren't fooling anyone here, nor making GW look like saints.

Multi million/billion dollar companies DO listen to their CUSTOMERS. I made a 5 dollar purchase at Fedex Office, and they called my house and asked me a 10 minute questionnaire about how I got serviced at their location.

I fill out surveys for Wal Mart often enough, and I get free products in the mail, and thank you mails, not emails, but mails, which is something no one does anymore.

I have a problem at Mc Donalds, guess what? I just go up to the counter, and without ANY argument my order is fixed and I am given free food, even when I politely state I am not looking for anything extra.

Fact is GW doesn't care about you or what you have to say at all. Period. People aren't stupid, and people would rather be loyal to companies that at least APPEAR to give a sh!t about their customers.

If GW could get a penny out of you by smearing their butt holes on your family, they would do so in a heart beat.

It is funny that I get more attention and care out of faceless, giant multi billion dollar companies than I do from a supposed "hobby" company.

Screw GW. They don't deserve any praise of any sort.

Now go connect your bank account to GW's veins so you can keep those money hungry blood suckers alive.

[Hive Mind]

Want some cheese with your whine?

[C.of.N.finity]

Wrong.

Let's get one thing straight.

GW showed contempt for their customers LONG before the contempt was shown BY the customers. You are mixing which happened first here.

Customers now a days are evil creatures BECAUSE GW shat all over them for years. GW stopped listening to their customers when the customers were called hobbyists and cared about GW.



Wrong!

Stop defending GW, seriously. You aren't fooling anyone here, nor making GW look like saints.

Multi million/billion dollar companies DO listen to their CUSTOMERS. I made a 5 dollar purchase at Fedex Office, and they called my house and asked me a 10 minute questionnaire about how I got serviced at their location.

I fill out surveys for Wal Mart often enough, and I get free products in the mail, and thank you mails, not emails, but mails, which is something no one does anymore.

I have a problem at Mc Donalds, guess what? I just go up to the counter, and without ANY argument my order is fixed and I am given free food, even when I politely state I am not looking for anything extra.

Fact is GW doesn't care about you or what you have to say at all. Period. People aren't stupid, and people would rather be loyal to companies that at least APPEAR to give a sh!t about their customers.

If GW could get a penny out of you by smearing their butt holes on your family, they would do so in a heart beat.

It is funny that I get more attention and care out of faceless, giant multi billion dollar companies than I do from a supposed "hobby" company.

Screw GW. They don't deserve any praise of any sort.

Now go connect your bank account to GW's veins so you can keep those money hungry blood suckers alive.

Wrong! Insert: Jaded bitter opinion followed by condescending demeanor.

Really, you and people like you are nothing more than the jilted lovers left behind as your high school crush of a miniatures company became famous and had to cut its ties to you to achieve its greatness. Cries of "I made you" and "you would be nothing without me" ring hollow in his ears and you clumsily tweet through tear stricken eyes how 'you're glad he's gone, really!' - But he never reads it. He's way too busy now being good at what he does, and all you think about, sad...alone...refusing to move on, is just the way things could have been if they had never changed at all.

[scadugenga]

Wrong! Insert: Jaded bitter opinion followed by condescending demeanor.

Really, you and people like you are nothing more than the jilted lovers left behind as your high school crush of a miniatures company became famous and had to cut its ties to you to achieve its greatness. Cries of "I made you" and "you would be nothing without me" ring hollow in his ears and you clumsily tweet through tear stricken eyes how 'you're glad he's gone, really!' - But he never reads it. He's way too busy now being good at what he does, and all you think about, sad...alone...refusing to move on, is just the way things could have been if they had never changed at all.

Hmm...methinks being a flaming troll with your first introductory post is perhaps not the best way to introduce yourself to a new forum.

[C.of.N.finity]

Hmm...methinks being a flaming troll with your first introductory post is perhaps not the best way to introduce yourself to a new forum.

My opinion is somehow less valid on these forums becuase I've stated less opinions on these forums? Interesting.

If a man acts a certian way, it is no insult to point out that he is acting in that way. In fact, I don't think I was so much the troll as I was just killing the troll with fire. Now I'm trolling becuase this post isn't serving any purpose so let me just say that it was said becuase it needed to be said and that if I offended anyone else by being a 'troll' earlier, then we'll agree to disagree and get back to topic.

[scadugenga]

My opinion is somehow less valid on these forums becuase I've stated less opinions on these forums? Interesting.

That's quite blatantly a straw man argument.

I did not question the validity of your opinion or statement. In fact, I didn't make a question at all. I just pointed out that the way you decided to post your opinion was in poor form.


If a man acts a certian way, it is no insult to point out that he is acting in that way. In fact, I don't think I was so much the troll as I was just killing the troll with fire. Now I'm trolling becuase this post isn't serving any purpose so let me just say that it was said becuase it needed to be said and that if I offended anyone else by being a 'troll' earlier, then we'll agree to disagree and get back to topic.

So...are you saying that if you disagree with a statement, specifically something that in this case was not directed at you, that it is perfectly acceptable to be rude, derisive, and condescending in your response? Because yeah, I'd have to say that's definitely insulting. There are many ways to get your point across without being a jerk.

Personally, I find it perfectly acceptable to just say "I disagree, and this is why."*

Now, out of curiosity--is there a reason you chose to respond to me publicly and privately--over something like this?

* Now I fully and freely admit that I'm as capable in getting "hot under the collar" in the forums as the next person, but I don't recall going out of my way to insert myself into a discussion for the sole reason of flaming someone.

[Uncle Nutsy]

popcorn, anyone?

[scadugenga]

popcorn, anyone?

Nah, sticks in my teeth.

Iced tea'll do though.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

I have Pocki does that count???

[scadugenga]

Pocki--infinitely better than popcorn.

[C.of.N.finity]

That's quite blatantly a straw man argument.

I did not question the validity of your opinion or statement. In fact, I didn't make a question at all. I just pointed out that the way you decided to post your opinion was in poor form.



So...are you saying that if you disagree with a statement, specifically something that in this case was not directed at you, that it is perfectly acceptable to be rude, derisive, and condescending in your response? Because yeah, I'd have to say that's definitely insulting. There are many ways to get your point across without being a jerk.

Personally, I find it perfectly acceptable to just say "I disagree, and this is why."*

Now, out of curiosity--is there a reason you chose to respond to me publicly and privately--over something like this?

* Now I fully and freely admit that I'm as capable in getting "hot under the collar" in the forums as the next person, but I don't recall going out of my way to insert myself into a discussion for the sole reason of flaming someone.

You accuse me of being upset at something not directed to me, yet you originally got upset over something that wasn't directed at you. The hypocrisy doesn't end there and I refuse to baited into this, please stay on topic or take it to PM.

[eldargal]

Right, Walmart and McDonalds are just saintly.

No corporation cares about its customers, some peddle the lie that they do bettere than others and some gullible types fall for it.

What it boils down to is this. GW produce a product, if the ratio of quality, content and price is right I will buy it. At present their products meet those criteria, in my opinion. So I buy their product. I expect nothing from GW beyond that. I certainly don't go around with some ridiculous sense of entitlement which says GW ought to care about me and listen to my opinions just because I buy their product.


Wrong.

Let's get one thing straight.

GW showed contempt for their customers LONG before the contempt was shown BY the customers. You are mixing which happened first here.

Customers now a days are evil creatures BECAUSE GW shat all over them for years. GW stopped listening to their customers when the customers were called hobbyists and cared about GW.



Wrong!

Stop defending GW, seriously. You aren't fooling anyone here, nor making GW look like saints.

Multi million/billion dollar companies DO listen to their CUSTOMERS. I made a 5 dollar purchase at Fedex Office, and they called my house and asked me a 10 minute questionnaire about how I got serviced at their location.

I fill out surveys for Wal Mart often enough, and I get free products in the mail, and thank you mails, not emails, but mails, which is something no one does anymore.

I have a problem at Mc Donalds, guess what? I just go up to the counter, and without ANY argument my order is fixed and I am given free food, even when I politely state I am not looking for anything extra.

Fact is GW doesn't care about you or what you have to say at all. Period. People aren't stupid, and people would rather be loyal to companies that at least APPEAR to give a sh!t about their customers.

If GW could get a penny out of you by smearing their butt holes on your family, they would do so in a heart beat.

It is funny that I get more attention and care out of faceless, giant multi billion dollar companies than I do from a supposed "hobby" company.

Screw GW. They don't deserve any praise of any sort.

Now go connect your bank account to GW's veins so you can keep those money hungry blood suckers alive.

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

Buffo... Your opinion is no more correct than anyone else's (because it's an opinion), so don't make everyone else sound like fools because we still enjoy the hobby (or Infer, being the better description).

I also disagree that they dont deserve praise of ANY sort, I believe they produce quality Books, Artwork, Rules and Models, I praise them for this. I also praise them for the wonderful place that is Warhammer World (sorry to the non British D: ). I also praise them for having people (mainly the fans, but I've also met some really intresting staff members too) that I can have intresting and fufilling conversations about a whole array of things, including the GW's products. I lastly praise them for making a fun game

[scadugenga]

You accuse me of being upset at something not directed to me, yet you originally got upset over something that wasn't directed at you. The hypocrisy doesn't end there and I refuse to baited into this, please stay on topic or take it to PM.

Really?

Really??

So this is why you allege that Buffo* and I have some sort of romantic entanglement in pm, and you misleadingly try to take a higher road publicly. And it's not accurate nor nice to attach emotional projections to someone else's post.

Wow.

*
Buffo's post above mine accomplished nothing, wasn't on topic, had no facts to it, it was nothing more than crying. I'm sorry you don't see that, maybe you and him have a thing for each other but somehow by calling him out on it I've offended you. I don't care. it's a forum, grow up.


Buffo, are you carrying a torch for me or something? I'm flattered and all--but buddy, I'm married and my wife doesn't like to share. ;)

And how does C.of.N.finity know what you may or may not be feeling? Is he psychic, or just projecting?

[Jive Tyrant]

I made a 5 dollar purchase at Fedex Office, and they called my house and asked me a 10 minute questionnaire about how I got serviced at their location.

And you're impressed because you were chosen at random to have YOUR time wasted by a 3rd party company that the survey was outsourced to, and that the results will be manipulated to fit with whatever the marketing people at Fedex want it to say? That's not good customer service, that's self-serving propaganda for Fedex. You shouldn't really be impressed by that.


I fill out surveys for Wal Mart often enough, and I get free products in the mail, and thank you mails, not emails, but mails, which is something no one does anymore.

I'm seeing a pattern here. You are falling for one of the oldest marketing tricks in the book. You are a truly mass-market customer.


I have a problem at Mc Donalds, guess what? I just go up to the counter, and without ANY argument my order is fixed and I am given free food, even when I politely state I am not looking for anything extra.

Do you know how many PENNIES it costs for them to offer you free fries and drink? Note how they don't offer Big Macs quite so often. As an aside, do you know the markup on soft drinks at McDonald's? Work out the percentage, and tell me any GW product that is within a factor of 10 of that.


But seriously, you're comparing Walmart, Fedex and McDonald's with Games Workshop? Massive massive worldwide companies with a niche hobby company? Global brands with a company that wouldn't even be able to go public in this austere day and age? Buffo, you normally talk sense, but in this case you need a bit of perspective.

However, it's all a moot point - all GW has to do is send you a customer satisfaction survey through the mail (of course they will ignore the results - everyone else does) and you'll be a happy bunny. ;)

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

oops

[C.of.N.finity]

Jive Tyrant <--- 100% agree, every word.

I would like to add that it's very sad that when someone tries to take a logical approach to GW's position, much in the Eldargal has, they get labeled an apologist as if, even if it were true, it would somehow be a reason to moot their entire point.

[wittdooley]

Jive Tyrant <--- 100% agree, every word.

I would like to add that it's very sad that when someone tries to take a logical approach to GW's position, much in the Eldargal has, they get labeled an apologist as if, even if it were true, it would somehow be a reason to moot their entire point.

Haha, It only took you Seven posts to figure that out. Well done. It's much easier to call someone an apologist than to formulate your own well articulated responsed, don't you know!

[Uncle Nutsy]

I expect nothing from GW beyond that. I certainly don't go around with some ridiculous sense of entitlement which says GW ought to care about me and listen to my opinions just because I buy their product.

interesting point.

On the flip side, since you are buying their product, they do care about what you, the customer, has to say up to a point. They know after all that you are their bread and butter and without you, they would either cease to exist or their presence becomes diminished. And the most powerful thing we have to speak to GW with is not the hundreds of 40k forums out there. it's not email you send them. it's not dumping messages on facebook either (while a bunch of us are calling you a wanker for it). heck, it's not even the phone.

it's your wallet.

So if you feel GW really mucked with you, speak with the most powerful tool you have.

[BuFFo]

GW loves that sound....

Baaaaaaaaahhhhhh!

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

This is still rolling? Ok, here's what I've done. I no longer buy GW products at their over-inflated prices. I use an independent. I don't care if that means GW get less to develop more over-priced products.

I have started a group on Facebook to petition GW for a customer survey, either on line or in WD. It will most likely not have anywhere near enough members to actually present to GW, but at least I'm DOING something.

I am also ignoring any further negative comments about MY OPINION on GW, because there is no right or wrong reaction to their recent business decisions. I am a customer, I like their products but don't like how they go about their business and I will try to effect change if at all possible, however massively unlikely that is. I acknowledge that forums and Facebook are not the best way of engaging with GW, but have found that lone voices are roundly ignored. The only way of making them listen to customers is en masse, hence trying to get a customer survey commissioned.

I think this subject has literally been done to death now. Thank you and goodnight

[Deadlift]

This is still rolling? Ok, here's what I've done. I no longer buy GW products at their over-inflated prices. I use an independent. I don't care if that means GW get less to develop more over-priced products.

I have started a group on Facebook to petition GW for a customer survey, either on line or in WD. It will most likely not have anywhere near enough members to actually present to GW, but at least I'm DOING something.

I am also ignoring any further negative comments about MY OPINION on GW, because there is no right or wrong reaction to their recent business decisions. I am a customer, I like their products but don't like how they go about their business and I will try to effect change if at all possible, however massively unlikely that is. I acknowledge that forums and Facebook are not the best way of engaging with GW, but have found that lone voices are roundly ignored. The only way of making them listen to customers is en masse, hence trying to get a customer survey commissioned.

I think this subject has literally been done to death now. Thank you and goodnight

Well done you, instead of like the masses of people who have whinged to death and yet done nothing, you have at least tried. Many here have given you a verbal kicking on this subject but I bet if you succeed in your plan not one will complain at lower prices (however unlikely). Not sure if your breaking any forum rules by posting the link to your petition page but if you can please do so. I will sign it. If not PM me the link. I personally love GWs creative side of the company, Not so keen on their accountants though :)

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_213510735356421&ap=1

Apologies to BOLS admin if this is not allowed, do please remove it if so.

[wittdooley]

This is still rolling? Ok, here's what I've done. I no longer buy GW products at their over-inflated prices. I use an independent. I don't care if that means GW get less to develop more over-priced products.


So... You do realize this affects their bottom line about zero, right? They set the discount price at which they sell their products to IRs in accordance with their desired profit margin. Anything they sell "first hand" at GW stores, or online, is gravy.

GWs bottom line is perfectly fine if you buy every product you own at an IR.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

It's more of a symbolic gesture to make me feel better. It still denies them the extra dough.

[TheRise]

Do you believe that one guy dropping out of the hobby will change the way GW think? No around half the people need to drop out from GW to make them even say "So?"

[Deadlift]

Do you believe that one guy dropping out of the hobby will change the way GW think? No around half the people need to drop out from GW to make them even say "So?"

I suspect more than 1 person worldwide may have given up on 40k or WHFB because of recent GW changes. Correct me if I am wrong but I suspect "1" could be a bit of an understatement. I do however see your point that unless their hit in their pockets not much is changing until next June when they up the price again.

[Wildeybeast]

The problem with people boycotting GW is that for every old pro who drops out, GW lures in another bright eyed pre-pubescent, who neither understands nor cares about the current gripes some poeple have with GW, they see only precious shiny plastic crack. So unless there is a boycott on a MASSIVE scale, (which there won't be) GW probably won't notice.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

All correct. The main point is that I've stopped talking and am now doing. Whether or not a difference is made is irrelevant, I now feel that I have at least tried. Trying and failing is better than never trying at all. And I don't want GW to be hurt per say, just to become aware of the opinions of some of their customers.

[Hive Mind]

*per se. Also, 'per se' means in, through or by itself so it doesn't work in that context.

Don't mean to be the proverbial national socialist but that one bugs me.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

i'm sure that there are many many more young and eager kiddies out there that GW can exploit, sorry entise, into the game. Losing one player is nothing compared to how many new players they get every month.

[Deadlift]

However with the advent of eBay I would imagine that more younger players who are going to find it harder to get into the hobby due to expense will be turning to this alternative instead. GW wont see any of that second hand £ at all.
Surely there has to be a limit to just how expensive this hobby can get before players start to walk away. I am just not sure that GW realise that.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Hive Mind, when I want a teacher I'll ask for one.

[Hive Mind]

Hive Mind, when I want a teacher I'll ask for one.

Didn't mean to offend.

[wittdooley]

Hive Mind, when I want a teacher I'll ask for one.

Brilliant display of civility! Bravo! Bravo!

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

That's ok Hive Mind, I was in a bad mood earlier, so it should be me who apologises. Getting a bit snappy today (I found myself calling someone a retarded f**k - face Fraggle today, so I think it's just me.) It was pretty late when I posted that up and I was on autopilot a bit. I hate being corrected though, but I should've been more polite. Sorry dude.

[MarneusCalgar]

Do you believe that one guy dropping out of the hobby will change the way GW think? No around half the people need to drop out from GW to make them even say "So?"

That´s the point!!

Even if 1000 players worldwide stop buying GW´s products, they´ve already made GW´s purpose, even if they sell it later by Ebay. GW, today, it´s not a group of hobbyist enjoying the game, it´s another business:
Old veterans now quitting already paid for their miniatures, and no one is going to return them the same amount of money!!

[L192837465]

But seriously, you're comparing Walmart, Fedex and McDonald's with Games Workshop? Massive massive worldwide companies with a niche hobby company? Global brands with a company that wouldn't even be able to go public in this austere day and age? Buffo, you normally talk sense, but in this case you need a bit of perspective.

*cough*
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=GAW.L

Erm... Your comparison is still valid, except for the facts part.

[L192837465]

Actually, my last post made me remember something.


You wanna complain where it matters?

Buy a share. Even a tenth of a share.

Then you OWN THE COMPANY.

It won't help you anymore because the OPs argument is pretty... well, flat out retarded and you stopped listening to everyone here, which I must reiterate, is deliciously ironic...


I forgot what my point was, I got distracted with the irony.

[Deadlift]

Yes I had a good read of GWs figures for the years 2009 to 2010. I was astounded at the profit margins and the CEO statement promising to improve on these figures the following year by cutting costs (finecast anyone).

Maybe time to buy me some shares.

As for the thread, it's just going in circles now.

[L192837465]

Yes I had a good read of GWs figures for the years 2009 to 2010. I was astounded at the profit margins and the CEO statement promising to improve on these figures the following year by cutting costs (finecast anyone).

Maybe time to buy me some shares.

Good time to buy. Their 52 week high was around 750, and it's at 430? They're projected to be at 450 by EOQ. I own some of it myself, because it's consistent (minus the massive dip... which i lost quite a bit on and now I'm just holding out until I start making something on it)

[Deadlift]

Good time to buy. Their 52 week high was around 750, and it's at 430? They're projected to be at 450 by EOQ. I own some of it myself, because it's consistent (minus the massive dip... which i lost quite a bit on and now I'm just holding out until I start making something on it)


Like with most investments, it's a long term game. I have stocks and shares ISA and although they occasionally dip, the have always recovered and then some. With the Hobbit licence pays off then I would expect some "kerching" with those shares.