The beast within DE

[GrenAcid]

Its rare thing for me to start topic but here it comes:
I recently played some games with my squads of bestmasters and zoo, olny once they fail me...and Im suprised cuz from what I heard on net I didnt expect them to do so well, usualy runs them like that:

Bestmaster
W/ 4 khymeare
Bestmaster
w/ fiend
>>>112

Bestmaster
w/ 2 razor flock
Bestmaster
w/ 4 khymeare
>>>>102

Bestmaster
w/ 2 razor flock
Bestmaster
w/ 2 razor flock
Bestmaster
w/ 5 khymeare
Bestmaster
w/ Fiend
Bestmaster
w/ Fiend
>>>>160

At my last game, unit called full-zoo(big one) cut down 2 tacticals and made way for third absorbing buckets of fire, all this for 160pt....now my oponents focus on that big nasty 12' assault unit instead for raider:D :D
So my question is do you use them, how and have they pay back??

(ps. Sorry for spelling and gramar im not master in those)

[Necron_Lord]

I haven't used beastmasters yet, but the price for the 'whole zoo' is off by 100 points, it's actually 260 points. I am more interested in doing a coven list for the time being.

[Silver Drakes Legion]

I have tried it but used 5 beastmasters, 8 razorwing flocks, 5 khymeare. Worked very well especially since it keeps people away from where I put my portals. over 100 attacks is amazing to start pulling out dice boxes for the attacks.

[GrenAcid]

@Necron_Lord
Yeah you`r right about price, my mistake.

My main problem with razorfocks is I dont have money to buy GW models, ratogres maks for Fiends nad chaoshounds for khymeras but no idea/option for razors.

[isotope99]

Simple answer is the flock of one approach. Split the GW razorwings into three (two are stuck together) you just need a couple of extra terminator bases. Won't look as good but should still serve its purpose.

Tyranid gargoyles on the larger base could also work, just throw on a few raider leftovers like chains and lose the fleshborer guns.

[Xas]

I can understand the kymaera approach on cost but not with the other beasts...

I'd not want to pay 30€ for two rat-ogres and do a ton of conversion (or have a crappy result) instead of buying two fiends for a grand total of 35€.

With flocks its similar (18.5€ for two gw ones).


If you want to try if the unit is worth investing time and money, take a temrinator base and write a B(ird) a K(ymaera) and F(iend) onto them to differentiate them in battle...

[eldargal]

Try looking for little bird figures on ebay and whatnot, jewellry ornaments and things like that. A lot of them are fairly ugly but you might be able to find some nice ones. Someone on Warseer suggested it and provides some links, here (http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-50-Pcs-Vivid-spread-wings-Flying-Bird-Beads-1-/280666910039?_trksid=p3286.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D1%26po%3D LVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D212300981716566163#ht_4355 wt_922) and here (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280594400836).

For Khymerae I use converted termagaunts, genestealers, skaven etc. I'm working on a converted Beastmistress riding a lobotomised Carnifex too, and then to go with the flying vibe a bit more I might make another Beastmistress riding a lobotomised Zoanthrope.

[GrenAcid]

Xas, where on earth you get that price?? I paid somthing like 30zł wich is less than 10 quid for 2 ratogres from Isle of blood.
Khymeras are not a problem, warhounds do great job, and Im not testing them, I want have a unit of beastmasters and zoo.

[thecactusman17]

Hmm. I like the beastmaster unit as a concept, but I'm somewhat torn on how to do them right. I can put together an Aviary for the rending with a few khymera to deal with the odd meltagun, but that's settling around 240 points. Trying to shove three into a list means that I'm looking at a really steep points sink that will perform incredibly well, except in some glaring examples. And taking care of heavily mechanized anything is going to be a real pain in the butt, though theoretically the birds should average a few penetrating or glancing hits in close combat. The problem there of course is that you will be freely flamered or countercharged in the subsequent turn, though that latter concept may not be too bad given that you don't have grenades anyway and going first will be preferable on average to an extra handful of attacks.

[jorz192]

I always include 5 beast masters for the balance in leadership and it makes flamers less deadly.
Razorwing flocks don't have the swarm USR so template weapons aren't as lethal.

I also thought about throwing the Baron in a beastmasters unit to give them stealth and the higher leadership.

[GrenAcid]

I also thought about throwing the Baron in a beastmasters unit to give them stealth and the higher leadership.
Wonderfull idea mate(finaly some use for Baron-I dont see Hellions as a good unit) but dosnt he gonna slow down whole unit?? cuz he is not a best type so no 12" charge anymore.

@thecactusman17
For cuting transports Fiend is doing quite well, its bit gamble here beast aren anti-tank unit so I preffer to target some annoying, soft, shooty things in second line or straight for throat tactic.
Try somthing like this if you dont wanna spend points on them:
4 Khymera/6 flock/ 4 master >>> 186pt->30-36 rending /12-16 S4/

Its not overkilly unit but nice for hunting down 5-men squads.

[somerandomdude]

I used Fantasy Bats for my first flocks. A whole lot of bases out of a couple of blisters.

Then I remade my packs with a Tyranid focus, and use Rippers.

[somerandomdude]

Wonderfull idea mate(finaly some use for Baron-I dont see Hellions as a good unit) but dosnt he gonna slow down whole unit?? cuz he is not a best type so no 12" charge anymore.


You have four possible situations with a BM/Baron unit each turn.

1) No charge possible (>24" away)
2) Charge possible, but only with the Beast rule (19"-24")
3) Charge possible, and guaranteed with the Beast rule (14"-18")
4) Charge guaranteed (1"-13")

With situations 1 and 2 it doesn't matter what you do with the Baron, so it makes sense to leave him with the unit (for protection in #1 and grenades in #4).

With situation #2, you are risking your amazing unit that is vulnerable to shooting if you separate him in the hopes that you will roll enough to charge.

With #3, you can keep the Baron with them for grenades and take a gamble, but know that you have some defense if you fail, OR you can separate him in the movement phase, and make sure to get an assault going (although you risk winning in your turn and having them fall victim to shooting).

Obviously those scales are altered by current game situations, such as terrain. If terrain is intervening, there is absolutely no reason I can see you detaching the Baron. It is too risky to rely on the dice to get you there, and even then you will be striking last.

The only time it would make a difference that the Baron was attached, really, is situation #3, but if you need that assault you can always detach to do it. Otherwise, keep the Baron with them. You're not really that slow, when you figure that you can potentially have a large threat range if you choose.

[GrenAcid]

@up
Thx, helped a lot. My friends gona hate me....:D

[jorz192]

I was thinking that he would stay with the BMs and give them stealth for the first turns while they won't nescessarily be in range for a charge. Then when they might get within range the Baron pops out and goes one way and the Bms charge another unit. Or he can stay with the BMs for the grenades but they will have a shorter charge range.

And thanks!