Cost of Metal vs resin

[addamsfamily36]

Ok, so ive been reading a lot of comments saying that resin is a cheaper material, but after doing some research i could find no price for "white metal" or the alloy they use or used to use for citadel miniatures. If someone could link me or point me in the right direction that would be great.

im just curious is all

[chromedog]

"White metal" is a group of alloys with similar casting properties.
It is NOT just ONE alloy or metal.

There are lead containing White Metal Alloys (WMA), there are lead free ones also.

The most common major metallic component is Tin, with the other additives being Bismuth, Antimony, and a variety of other metals.

[addamsfamily36]

White metal" is a group of alloys with similar casting properties.
It is NOT just ONE alloy or metal.

There are lead containing White Metal Alloys (WMA), there are lead free ones also.

The most common major metallic component is Tin, with the other additives being Bismuth, Antimony, and a variety of other metals.

I am perfectly aware what white metal is. I am also aware of what an alloy is. My question was whether there was a set price for white metal as an alloy (regardless if its made up of several metals) or if there was a price for its structural components and if so where could these prices be found.

[eldargal]

http://www.infomine.com/chartsanddata/chartbuilder.aspx?z=f&g=127674&dr=15y

Tin price 1997: c2.3USD per pound
Tin price 2010: c12.50USD per pound.

The website has a lot of other minerals too, but as stated above tin is the major component of white metal and it has increased in price sixfold since 1997.

[TheBitzBarn]

Thanks China

[eldargal]

Its not all bad, in return we get cheap rubbish and clothes, which puts our own clothing, textiles and other industries, which produced a quality product for centuries, out of business.

Wait a minute...

[Quaade]

Don't worry, once China have all the industries they lured into China with cheap labor by the balls, the price on that will increase 3-4 times at least! So look on the bright side!!!

...

[lobster-overlord]

Read this....

http://www.reapermini.com/P-65

It is Indonesia that controls the price of Tin, not China.

JOhn M>

[eldargal]

Except it is demand by China and India that is driving resource prices up, not so much price hikes from mineral rich countries.

[Psychosplodge]

http://www.ides.com/resinpricing/Secondary.aspx

There you go secondary resin prices in the same cost/units as Eldargal's tin post, most seem not to be in the same region even if there is large variation across the various types

[addamsfamily36]

Cheers for the info guys.

So a common resin for miniature casting is Polyurethane or PUR. So on that chart it's about $1.17 per pound. Compared to the tin alloy of $12.5 per pound.

rough difference of $11.

but GW state that their Resin is a special recipe, so can only presume that it either isn't PUR or is a combination resin. So price is going to be difficult to specify.

anyone got any idea whats in the resin?

[Psychosplodge]

TBH it's probably somewhere similar as they'd seek to maximise the profits from the change over...

[addamsfamily36]

Yeh i can't imagine it being much greater than $2-$4

That being said, i doubt they were making much on the old metal casts if the cost of metal was that high. Not when you take into account the entire process from sculpt to packaged piece.

[eldargal]

They weren't, very little profit on the metal range apparently. The new resin is much cheaper but they had to re-tool every mould by hand and alter some of the casting machines as well, hence the Finecast price hike to try and offset some of these costs. Which I think was a mistake, but there you go.

[addamsfamily36]

They weren't, very little profit on the metal range apparently. The new resin is much cheaper but they had to re-tool every mould by hand and alter some of the casting machines as well, hence the Finecast price hike to try and offset some of these costs. Which I think was a mistake, but there you go.

I hears that they made new moulds for scratch. There was even mention of it somewhere that they wanted to get as close to the original sculpt as possible. If thats true, would they have made entirely new moulds. or is that what you mean by re-tool? as to me that means modify the existing moulds.

[eldargal]

Well I heard they re-tooled some moulds (drilling more vents mostly I believe) but it is possible they made new moulds from the resin masters. It is much cheaper to do that for the rubber/silicon moulds used on the metal/Finecast range than the moulds for plastic. Either way this change didn't come cheaply, it is just a change they raised prices to pay for it instead of letting the much lower costs pay it back over time.

[oni]

I speculate that it's more than just new molds, tooling, whatever. FAILcast will have a high rate of return and GW needs to offset the cost of this.

[Chuck777]

Don't worry, once China have all the industries they lured into China with cheap labor by the balls, the price on that will increase 3-4 times at least! So look on the bright side!!!

...

Actually, businesses will simply leave China and go to the next rat-infested, dung-pile of a third world country where the government offers huge subsidies and promises not to raise the minimum wage for decades. IIRC, a lot of businesses were, prior to the recession, already moving out of China and into neighboring countries like Vietnam.


I hears that they made new moulds for scratch. There was even mention of it somewhere that they wanted to get as close to the original sculpt as possible. If thats true, would they have made entirely new moulds. or is that what you mean by re-tool? as to me that means modify the existing moulds.

IIRC, the big push to switch to resin now was due to a new development that would allow GW to use the exact same molds that they were using for their metal lines and now use them to create resin models (some tweaking of the molds was necessary). There is no way GW made entire new molds for the Finecast line, at least not in any volume, because the price hike would have been much, much higher (molds cost an arm and a leg).

[Mauglum.]

Hi all.
The only previous experiance I have had with a company switching from white metal to resin was this.

Mantic Games switched thier white metal undead cavalry from white metal to resin (using the same moulds modified .)
They DOUBLED the amount of minatures in the box , because the cost of the resin was less than half that of the white metal.

10 Undead Cavalry for £25 from Mantic.(£2,50 for a quality resin cavalry minature is great value IMO.)

How much do GW plc charge for thier 'finecast' infantry ?

Oh, THAT much, right ...whats the quality like ....oh ,that bad eh....:eek:

[wittdooley]

Hi all.
The only previous experiance I have had with a company switching from white metal to resin was this.

Mantic Games switched thier white metal undead cavalry from white metal to resin (using the same moulds modified .)
They DOUBLED the amount of minatures in the box , because the cost of the resin was less than half that of the white metal.

10 Undead Cavalry for £25 from Mantic.(£2,50 for a quality resin cavalry minature is great value IMO.)

How much do GW plc charge for thier 'finecast' infantry ?

Oh, THAT much, right ...whats the quality like ....oh ,that bad eh....:eek:

Lest we forget that the undead models are the only Mantic models that look good at all. The Dwarves and the Elves look like piss.

[addamsfamily36]

IIRC, the big push to switch to resin now was due to a new development that would allow GW to use the exact same molds that they were using for their metal lines and now use them to create resin models (some tweaking of the molds was necessary). There is no way GW made entire new molds for the Finecast line, at least not in any volume, because the price hike would have been much, much higher (molds cost an arm and a leg).

Plastic injection moulds cost a fortune, but Resin/metal moulds are a lot cheaper.

the thing that makes me think they have possibly made new moulds is the fact that a fair few of the new miniatures have been laid out on sprues and on some miniaturs its spread across two such as malagor. A long time ago i saw the prcoess at a GW demonstration and most of the parts for a miniature were part of a circle mould ( the metal process). either way would be interesting to know for definete if they made new moulds or not.

[rkiviman]

The bottom line is that GW has raised the price of their figures not reduced them. So, any cost saving they received from switching to resin definitely wasn't passed on to the consumer!! ;)

[Verilance]

The bottom line is that GW has raised the price of their figures not reduced them. So, any cost saving they received from switching to resin definitely wasn't passed on to the consumer!! ;)

or to play Devil's Advocate, it was because if they had stuck with metal they would have had to raise their prices even more :p:p