Mephiston question

[dwsculpts]

I have a question about Mephiston's status as a non independent character. Can he be fielded with an honor guard? The honor guard can be purchased for a command unit. So can one be purchased as a bodyguard for Meph?

[Nabterayl]

Move to the rules forum?

In answer to your question, Mephiston does allow you to purchase an Honour Guard unit. Since he is not an Independent Character, he cannot join that unit (or any other unit), though.

EDIT: You might know this already, but just to be clear, Honour Guards do not act as "bodyguards" in the rules sense even for Independent Characters that have joined them. For instance, if you buy, say, a Blood Angels captain and an Honour Guard, the captain can join the Honour Guard (because he's an IC), but he can also leave the Honour Guard (because he's an IC) and can be picked out in close combat (because he's an IC). If they were a true "bodyguard" unit in the rules sense, he couldn't leave the unit unless they were all dead, and he couldn't be picked out in close combat while joined to his bodyguard.

[dwsculpts]

The reason I ask is that without the independent character status he cannot join a unit, but the honor guard is purchased as a bodyguard for a marine HQ. One can be purchased for Meph or the Sanguinor.

So if you buy the honor guard option, Meph or the Sanguinor cane be part of the unit they just have to stay with the unit for the rest of the game.

Correct or no?

[Nabterayl]

The reason I ask is that without the independent character status he cannot join a unit, but the honor guard is purchased as a bodyguard for a marine HQ. One can be purchased for Meph or the Sanguinor.

So if you buy the honor guard option, Meph or the Sanguinor cane be part of the unit they just have to stay with the unit for the rest of the game.

Correct or no?

Technically, no honour guards are not purchased as bodyguards for a marine HQ. It's more accurate to think of them as a unit that you cannot buy unless you have a marine HQ. In other words, each honor guard is a totally regular squad, but you can only buy one per marine HQ. Once purchased they act just like any other squad. They don't need to have anything to do with the HQ that "unlocked" them, and they don't do anything special even if an HQ has joined them.

So if you bought a regular captain, you could also buy one honor guard. If you did, the captain would not have to join the honor guard, or be deployed with the honor guard, or anything - it would just be a squad of five guys. If you bought Mephiston or the Sanguinor, you could also buy one honor guard. They could not join the honor guard, and the honor guard would still just be a squad of five guys.

[MaltonNecromancer]

Honour Guard aren't bodyguards; they're the HQ choice's personally hand-picked badasses - the ones he trusts most to get the job done. They guard the Chapter's honour, not the Chapter's HQ's.

[wittdooley]

This thread has me thinking it would be badass for a Marine IC to have a bodyguard option, making him unable to be picked out like an IC were he with an honour guard!

[dwsculpts]

The reason I am curious is that I was trying to put together some lists and I was looking at the Honour Guard entry in the BA codex army list and it has the reference page (52) to look at the entry in detail. The first paragraph refers to them as a squad of bodyguards.

[Nabterayl]

They are indeed a bodyguard for fluff purposes. For rules purposes, though, because they don't take away a character's IC status when he is joined to them, they are just another unit.

[ForsakenImp]

Like Meph needs a place to hide to be even more OP.

[Wolfshade]

Like Meph needs a place to hide to be even more OP.

250pts, no invulnerable save, no Eternal Warrior, single unit squad. A squad of guard with flashlights can take him out.

[Tynskel]

250pts, no invulnerable save, no Eternal Warrior, single unit squad. A squad of guard with flashlights can take him out.

Seriously?
With 2+ armor and FNP, and wounding on a 6+?

No, you need heavy special weapons to take him down.

[Tamwulf]

250pts, no invulnerable save, no Eternal Warrior, single unit squad. A squad of guard with flashlights can take him out.

Hmm. You forgot Toughness 6, so your Flashlights will need 5's to hit, and 6's to wound. Never mind that if you are in range to shoot with your Flashlights, Meph is in range to assault.

I would agree that the best way to kill Meph is by shooting- lots and lots of shooting similar to the old Eldar Avatar tactic of gunning him down with shooting before he gets into CC. Problem is, most BA players imbed him with a unit of Assault Troops, giving him a cover save as they advance across the table.

Then of course, their are the players that roll him in the Sky Caddy- his very own customized Storm Raven.

"Yo! I heard you like Storm Ravens, and that you are some kind of spooky guy. So I pimped out yo' Storm Raven. It's now a Ghost Hawk! It's got Blood Ghost Flames on the side, some Blood Strike missiles, and we upgraded yo' engine with some bling and a High Perf air filter! You'll be rawking out to the jams with the new stereo we installed too!"

[Wolfshade]

Seriously?
With 2+ armor and FNP, and wounding on a 6+?

No, you need heavy special weapons to take him down.

Never said how big the squad was...:rolleyes:...or my ability to suffer really bad rolls, but it could be worse

[DarkLink]

Hmm. You forgot Toughness 6, so your Flashlights will need 5's to hit, and 6's to wound. Never mind that if you are in range to shoot with your Flashlights, Meph is in range to assault.


I didn't know Guardsmen were BS 2.


Anyways, in order to have a roughly 50% chance of killing Mephiston, you need about 360 lasgun shots. Good luck with that.

[Deadlift]

I didn't know Guardsmen were BS 2.


Anyways, in order to have a roughly 50% chance of killing Mephiston, you need about 360 lasgun shots. Good luck with that.

lol

[Paul]

I didn't know Guardsmen were BS 2.


Anyways, in order to have a roughly 50% chance of killing Mephiston, you need about 360 lasgun shots. Good luck with that.

Provided you're in rapid fire range (which will be hard), that's only 900 points of guardsmen!

If you're not... uh, well, double it! Only 1800 points of lasguns to kill a 250 point model! Hah, yea, meph needs a bodyguard.

[RealGenius]

For rules purposes, though, because they don't take away a character's IC status when he is joined to them, they are just another unit.

If they did take away his IC status, it would be called a Retinue, BRB pg. 48.

Mephiston most definitely does NOT need a Retinue.

[addamsfamily36]

To be fair though, how many guard players take nothing but lasguns?

He also doesn't have FNP as standard. He only has it if he is within range of a priest. I'm not saying he's not a tough nut, but i've seen him fall to things like 3 eldar war walkers, melta guns, and all manner of units that cost roughly the same or even less.

I personally think the sanguinor is a far scarier HQ to face.

[DarkLink]

That's kinda the point. Shoot Mephiston with guns that don't care about his toughness and armor saves. Weight of fire is not the answer.

[dannyat2460]

i have mephiston and run him in 2000pts and the reason i do is cos of peoples fear of him people fire so much anti tank weapons into him while hes standing in cover it amases me everytime as my two storm ravens full of chargy death fly in and tear there army apart. Dont get me wrong Mephiston can ruin your day if he gets into range but is he always the highest priority target?

Always think before you shoot him is this a trick to distract me from something else.

My 2000 pts the thing that does the most dammage is a rhino with 5 deathcompany with power weapons and a chaplain in it and it has never been shot at once thanks to mephiston been a distraction

[Jwolf]

The reason I ask is that without the independent character status he cannot join a unit, but the honor guard is purchased as a bodyguard for a marine HQ. One can be purchased for Meph or the Sanguinor.

So if you buy the honor guard option, Meph or the Sanguinor cane be part of the unit they just have to stay with the unit for the rest of the game.

Correct or no?

I'm not sure that this question is answered simply enough above. The answer is no. Mephiston cannot join a unit for any reason, not start the games as part of a unit for any reason.

[Tynskel]

I'm not sure that this question is answered simply enough above. The answer is no. Mephiston cannot join a unit for any reason, not start the games as part of a unit for any reason.

Justification:

1) the honor guard are their own unit (states this in the codex)
2) the honor guard do not have a special rule that states they may join me mephiston
3) mephiston does not have IC status
4) ICs may not join mephiston because under IC rules ICs cannot join one model units unless they themselves have the IC rule.

[SeattleDV8]

Justification:

1) the honor guard are their own unit (states this in the codex)
2) the honor guard do not have a special rule that states they may join me mephiston
3) mephiston does not have IC status
4) ICs may not join mephiston because under IC rules ICs cannot join one model units unless they themselves have the IC rule.

Spot on with one minor (pendantic) quibble.
IC's cannot join units that are always a single model, IC's excepted.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Yeah Edward was a solitary figure to begin with, i think putting him with a squad would be a little unbalanced. Have to give other armies some sort of chance against him.
Though i found against a Celestien squad he isn't that great, with SoTM faith and a few power weapons or Evescerators he is easy enough to take out.