Dark Eldar Tactics versus Mech IG

[rcm2216]

I usually run a mixed Kabalite/Wych Raider list with the Baron and Hellions in tow, plus three ravagers. I was wondering what are the best tactics against saw a Mech IG list that consist of say:

1 Manticore
1 Leman Russ
1 Demolisher
2 Vendettas
1 Hell Hound
6 Chimeras @ 5 various vet squads and 1 HQ squad

How do I confront and stand a winning chance against such list that can shoot down all my tanks before I have a chance to close the range between us.

What success has any other Dark Eldar player experienced?

[thecactusman17]

I dont know how you kit out your units, but step one seems to be bum rushing their lines asap. On the occasions where I did well against mech ig in games I was hyper aggressive to the level of recklessness, mixed with a bit of luck. I can only out shoot guard when they are unmounted, and that is only because I run the jets with full missiles.

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

I havent gone up against a real mech list yet. however I look at my DE as a scapel doing surgery. dont spread yourself out and focus in on one thing at a time. I personally would start by popping the chimeras to get your wyches and stuff safe in combat then worry about the bigs guns. with your troops in combat he cant shoot at them and your raiders and ravagers can focus in on the big guns. with the chances of scatering and flickerfields you should mop up or stun the crap out of the tanks. any tanks that dont have a weapon that scatters i would take out first

[Rissan4ever]

I'm an IG player. The way to beat Mech IG with Dark Eldar is to use Dark Lances and get into assault as soon as possible. If your Raiders and Ravagers don't have Dark Lances, they should.

If you have 1st turn:

Turn 1: Point the Ravagers at the heavy armor and blow it away. Three Dark Lances will kill a Leman Russ with no problem. Fly your Raiders right up in his face, going flat out so you get the cover save. His Vets will get out of their Chimeras. The Chimeras will shoot at your Raiders, and kill a few of them. The deployed Vets will then shoot whoever was in the Raiders. However, since Raiders blow up so easily, your troops will be in cover from the craters.

Turn 2: Deploy anything that didn't get shot out of its Raider on Turn 1. Shoot your Dark Lances at the Chimeras and any remaining tanks and artillery. Assault!

If he has 1st turn:

Deploy in reserve. This will disable him from shooting up your Raiders before you get a chance to attack. Then do the same tactic as above, but concentrate on a single flank.

I have lost to this DE tactic many times. It's not 100% (nothing is), but it's pretty effective.

[w7west]

Usually my playing full mech IG will come down to whether or not I can pull off this move:

First we will need some guys on foot, near other vehicles. Focus a large percentage of firepower on the middle chimera/valk. It must be near multiple vehicles for this to be effective but most IG players dont spread out very much so this shouldn't be hard.

Good, we have some guys on foot now. 3 raiders full of wyches should be turbo'd and ready to assault next turn. In addition, any distraction units you can afford such as 5 warrior blaster blast pistol in venoms x 4-6 or reaver jetbike squads should be making themselves as threatening as possible. Boost them right into the ig teeth, make them such irresistable targets that your opponent doesnt focus everything he has on the wyches.

The point of this is to have a solid number of wyches still ready to do business on your 2nd turn. If the IG player bites the bait, you should be golden with at least 2 squads of wyches left. If they don't bite the bait, you have a large number of close range blasters that can easily get to that armor 10.

So they bit, and blew 4 venoms out of the sky and massacred the warriors inside, and maybe even had time to blow up a bloodbride raider and pin them or wipe them out. But we have exactly what we need, where we need it now.

2 squads of bloodbrides both move up and dismount, then fleet into a position where if they assaulted the ig squad on foot, only one wych will make it into cc. Do this for both squads. Other than the one wych in range for cc, the rest of the squad should be spreading out and getting close to as many vehicles as possible. You would be suprised how wide a 10 man squad can be when they spread out.

Now the IG player is starting to realize what is about to happen to him. He may at this point say something like "wait what to haywire grenades do again?" this is where you show him. When you launch your assault, try to get around 2 wyches on each vehicle in range. Done properly this move will completely shut down IG core, and whats more, you will be able to strike again in your opponents next turn on any vehicles that couldnt move out of base aka like 90% of them.

And the beauty? Your wyches are immune while at least one of them is in cc with a foot squad. Use this to your advantage and you should be able to even the playing field a great deal. Just be careful and protective of your wyches in these situations since they are your best anti tank against parking lots.

[ShotDownMind]

These are good tactics. Make sure to keep in mind what kind and where the enemy flamers are, deploy and move at all times with enemy flamers in mind.

:eek:

[thecactusman17]

West, you have to consolidate into any units you ar locked into combat with. So your wyches in that scenario will consolidate into the combat with the guard unit after the fight.

[Xas]

*1 Manticore
*1 Leman Russ
1 Demolisher
*2 Vendettas
1 Hell Hound
6 Chimeras @ 5 various vet squads and 1 HQ squad



the trick is picking the propper targets. I see 4 vehicles that are a considerable threat in a vehicle war (marked *) and you should have enough dark lances to deliver propperly while relying on your mobility/range/fields to protect you from the rest.

if you dont have turn one and cannot hide behind a los blocker you should deploy reserved. its better to have half your army arrive in turn 2, ready to shoot and the other half in reserve than to have half your army killed in turn 1 before you can do anything.

[w7west]

West, you have to consolidate into any units you ar locked into combat with. So your wyches in that scenario will consolidate into the combat with the guard unit after the fight.

You dont have to move any models that are in base with a vehicle

[tabyrd]

Unfortunately (or fortunately) depending on what side of this tactic you are on, this is addressed in the GW FAQ:

Q: In a multiple combat involving opposing vehicles
(except walkers) and non-vehicle units how would a pile in
move work? (p63)
A: Pile in moves must be used to try and make it into base
contact with the non-vehicle units.

after that first round, you get sucked off those vehicles.

[Denied]

So the Mech IG list you mention is roughly what I have played against DE only with 2 Hyrdas instead of the hellhound and demolisher. In the end this list just devastates DE. The games I have played the DE can't close fast enough with their tank killing assault units before I shoot them out of the sky.

The best tactic I can think of with this would be to hold everything in reserves and try to flank them. I have had several DE players rush at me from as close as possible from turn one and the number of shots I throw out at them is beyond crippling for this tactic. The best chance you have is reserve then flank get into their line ASAP and beat on the Chimeras as much as possible.

Ignore the Manticore and LR demolishers with your assault units and focus popping chimeras and eating IG faces. The Vendettas are what you should focus with your Dark Lances... oh and FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SPREAD YOUR TRANSPORTS OUT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!!! If I drop a Manticore or LR blast on you make sure it isn't going to scatter onto other vehicles or deny me the ability to flip it on additional units as much as possible!

If you do this I think you stand a fighting chance, its an uphill battle but win able.

[crazy_irish]

The best tactic I can think of with this would be to hold everything in reserves and try to flank them.

I hope you didn't mean outflanking, as that... is not possible with DE. Why should DE be able to outlank ....

Anywho if you mean boosting up to the enemy lines, i guess that could work.

[thecactusman17]

So the Mech IG list you mention is roughly what I have played against DE only with 2 Hyrdas

2 Hydras

TWO HYDRA FLAK TANKS


You know, it shames me to admit that I completely failed to notice the Hydras. Hydras. I respectfully change my argument: next time you play against this gentleman, punch him in the face. Be aware that in some backwards municipalities, this may not be considered polite. Or legal. But it must be done.

OK, that's out of my system.

OP, this could be a really critical question: What units do you run? Do you lots of vehicles? I hope you do, because the following is a rather unorthodox tactic that I would normally NOT recommend. And that tactic is Deep Striking your vehicles, if possible. This is very simple and straightforward: DS into a flank position, open fire into his side or rear, and seriously hope that you do some damage. This is exceptionally risky, but it opens up avenues of attack that you simply will not possess by moving across the board normally. Those Hydras are going to make short work of whatever critical transports or heavy gunships are on the field the first time they get to fire. You MUST deny them targets, and you MUST move into a position where your limited AT options will have the best opportunity to hit side or rear armor.

[tactica]

I think the trick is to knoick those vehicles before they even get a chance to fire on you. I go with loads of raiders and other units packing mobile dark lances and start them in reserve to guarantee getting the first shot

[Uncle Nutsy]

hydras? hydras aren't that scary. There's a few options available to DE. Take a venom an deepstrike it with a full load of blasterborn right behind them. hit them from the air with a jetfighter. rush them with scourges. hit em from the flanks with reavers.

any way to get a lance based weapon onto his blindside is always a good idea.


The games I have played the DE can't close fast enough with their tank killing assault units before I shoot them out of the sky.

gak! urk! hurrr! daaagh!

why would a DE player try to kill a tank in assault?? does he WANT to see his units killed before they get to do anything? You tell him, a much better way to do it is to outshoot the tanks. Use range, and the ability to reduce the range of the IG guns.

[incenerate101]

The reason you try to kill tanks with wychs is the fact that haywire grenades have the ability to glance them enough to destroy them. Yes after the first round of assault youll consolidate into the unit you assaulted as long as your within 2 inches of a vehicle you can still throw your grenades at the tanks even from being locked with a unit.

[thecactusman17]

The reason you try to kill tanks with wychs is the fact that haywire grenades have the ability to glance them enough to destroy them. Yes after the first round of assault youll consolidate into the unit you assaulted as long as your within 2 inches of a vehicle you can still throw your grenades at the tanks even from being locked with a unit.

Incinerate, You should re-read your rulebook. First off, for your trick to work, you must assault a non-vehicle unit. Then you must be positioned such that not all of your models can reach base to base contact with your opponent (because you must try to get as many models as possible into the combat). THEN you may move models that could not engage in H2H with the infantry so that they can engage the tank. If any of your models are in base to base with any one unit and not in base to base with another unit AT THE SAME TIME, then they can't choose where their attacks go. They must attack the unit they are in base contact with. If units aren't in base contact with either, but are within 2" of another combat, they may choose to direct their attacks toward that combat.

[w7west]

One or maybe two wyches are attacking the squad on the turn you assault, the rest haywire vehicles. Consolidate the rest of the wyches into the squad and wipe them out on your opponents turn.

20 man pain token'd warrior squads are hard for IG to remove from range (hard = might take more than one shooting phase to wipe them)

Deep striking blasters via duke'd trueborn squads in venoms can work when you need to take out a certain chimera. Just realize you are trading 175+points for an opportunity at maybe 150 so make sure it's worth it.

Nightshields are the only way to engage tanks in firepower battles, although if you see 2+ hydras that will not work.

Play the mission. Sometimes all you need to do is slow down certain advancing tanks.

Don't ever doubt that IG can blow up each of your vehicles and the guys inside with shots to spare if you openly engage.

[Uncle Nutsy]

The reason you try to kill tanks with wychs is the fact that haywire grenades have the ability to glance them enough to destroy them.

yes, this trick is possible.. but is it likely to work? my gut says no. better to use wyches for what they're designed for. killing infantry.

you're just giving the tanks too juicy of a target by using wyches to attack tanks. You're much better off punching a hole in them with a lance, blaster or (i guess) heat lance.


Deep striking blasters via duke'd trueborn squads in venoms

i got a better idea. Instead of a venom, put the duke with trueborn in a raider. Full squad of trueborn with dual splintercannons and triple blasters. IG can say bye bye to their chimeras. and if anything's survived the ensuing explosion, they can kiss their britches goodbye after being torrented to death.

[tabyrd]

I'm sorry, but I can't help but laugh at your response Uncle. A full trueborn squad in raider with the Duke? How much is that squad? say 9 guys + the duke, 2xsplinter cannons, 3xblasters in a raider? Without shardcarbines, you are in for 233 for the squad and naked raider + the Duke (150). Deepstrike the raider within 12" of the chimera, because you want to rapid fire the guys inside right? Hope you don't mishap.

So unless the IG guy is a dolt, you don't get side armor and instead have to shoot front armor 12. Are you expecting your one shot from the raider to blow up the chimera so you can shoot the guys inside? Have you ever shot a darklance against armor 12? Let's say you have the good graces of actually exploding it and not just wrecking it and having the IG pour our the back out of LOS of your uber shooty squad.

Now they are exploded and sitting in a crater within 12" of your uber squad of doom. I hope you jumped out of your vehicle, because otherwise you can't shoot! Your vehicle moved fast (i.e. over 6") deepstriking in, so you can't shoot as passengers unless you hop out. Oh wait, I hope you can hop out in cover to shoot those IG or you will get obliterated in the next shooting phase. Sweet, you did find cover and blast those IG who go to ground. If they don't survive with their 3+ cover save, congrats, you just destroyed how points of IG? You got a pain token, yeah FNP! If not, they will most likely have a command squad nearby order them back in the fight. all that for nothing! Lot of IG firepower is S6, so FNP means a lot less. Hope those chimeras don't have hull heavy flamers. Are you in a good position now with your expensive squad? I am fairly convinced (from experience) that even with the raider AND the 3 blasters from the trueborn squad, you'd have a hard time exploding that chimera. Where's your 3+ poison shots now?! All that just to point out, there are a lot of ifs to take into account to make this actually happen and then like west said, how many points did you just trade to kill a chimera and the vets inside? Your squad will die the next turn.

Now granted, this little idea doesn't really take into account the rest of your army, but it also doesn't take into account the rest of his. There's not enough dark lances in the DE army to disable an IG mech force who deploy even halfway decently without some super great dice rolls. against armor 12, you first need to hit, still need a 5 or 6 to pen and another 5 or 6 to wreck/explode? Mathhammer the odds on that.

Also one last critique of your comment about wyches. Wyches don't really kill infantry, not at S3. Wyches are meant to tie up infantry. Without an upgrade character or a great combat drug roll, their ability to KILL infantry quickly is pretty low. If you want to kill infantry, take incubi. Wyches with nades in sufficient numbers can do a number on mech parking lots.

[Anggul]

Unfortunately (or fortunately) depending on what side of this tactic you are on, this is addressed in the GW FAQ:

Q: In a multiple combat involving opposing vehicles
(except walkers) and non-vehicle units how would a pile in
move work? (p63)
A: Pile in moves must be used to try and make it into base
contact with the non-vehicle units.

after that first round, you get sucked off those vehicles.

This, however, isn't actually too much of a problem. After that first round, you'll then all run into the guardsmen. You will then proceed to butcher them in your opponent's turn, and be free to do as you wish in your turn.