GW Web staff comments

[Wolfshade]

Well it looks like GW web dudes have heard the cry over the internets over the prices/trade embargo:

"Hi everyone,

Well, we can see that there are quite a few of you with strong feelings about several issues, and the threads have gone a little crazy. We’re sorry many of you feel frustrated. We have read all of your comments and because we (the web dudes) don’t have the power to act on any of them, be assured that we have passed your comments on to the higher levels of management in GW.

We want to continue posting pictures of your fantastic miniatures, and link to hobby related items. We would like future threads to remain relevant to the topic in question, so everyone else can have their voice heard and enjoy the discussions about the hobby we all love.

We’ve got your comments both in this thread and on those older posts, which will remain open for you to carry on the conversation there – please, feel absolutely free to do so, we will indeed read them. But in any new threads, we want to celebrate the creative efforts of others. Any comments that stray off topic will be removed.

Just remember that we must remove any strong language and abusive users, in consideration of our youngest fans.

The web team."

http://www.facebook.com/notes/games-workshop/your-comments/227241343957370

[Deadlift]

It's nice to see that GW has at least acknowledged the current discord from it's customer / fanbase. I personally feel that GW have been guilty of burrowing it's head in the sand in response to customers concerns and complaints in the past. I guess it's now a case of watch this space to see if GW will address these issues of price, shipping and material use in a positive way.

[wittdooley]

It's nice to see that GW has at least acknowledged the current discord from it's customer / fanbase. I personally feel that GW have been guilty of burrowing it's head in the sand in response to customers concerns and complaints in the past. I guess it's now a case of watch this space to see if GW will address these issues of price, shipping and material use in a positive way.

I wonder if the disconnect isn't between GW and the fanbase, but rather between the Creative entities at GW (the ones responsible for actually making and designing the products) and the Corporate entities at GW (the ones in charge of the money and, therefore, the business decisions.)

I think this acknowledgement supports that, but that's just me.

[Deadlift]

I wonder if the disconnect isn't between GW and the fanbase, but rather between the Creative entities at GW (the ones responsible for actually making and designing the products) and the Corporate entities at GW (the ones in charge of the money and, therefore, the business decisions.)

I think this acknowledgement supports that, but that's just me.

Could very well be the case. Infact it would make alot of sense. I don't expect GW to u-turn on any of the changes they have announced over the past few days but a further explanation would maybe go some way to help it customers understand why.

[Necron2.0]

Actually, I took that to be the most friendly form of "go screw yourselves" I've heard in a long time.

Translation:
"We're going to move all your complaint comments into their own specially little place where you can all scream and vomit bile to your hearts content. Meanwhile, if you bother to post any complaints anywhere where they can actually be seen, we're going to smack them down like a redheaded step child. Have a nice day."

[Defenestratus]

I really think that the only way that GW will listen is if somehow the customer discontent makes it way to the mainstream media (and then to its shareholders).

Remember the only constituency that Kirby answers to are the shareholders. When they start asking "why are customers so pissed off?" then perhaps you'll start seeing some action.

[Lancel]

My experience in the corporate world tells me that a lot of it is going to be internal. A company is made of different groups with varying degrees of power, and it takes time for one group to get its voice heard in upper management for anything to get done, but they still have to be diplomatic about it for the sake of their jobs. This just means the web team has done all they can, and they may even use their own announcement to help get a response out of upper management in a timely fashion. It was too quick for upper management to have told them to make this response, that could take a few days in a company the size of GW. We will just have to see if anything comes of it.

Believe me, some people in a company actually hate their own shareholders for the same reasons we do. :P

[Wildeybeast]

Yeah that is pretty polite 'screw you and stop moaning'. TBH I'm surprised they even went as far as bothering to post that.

And the share holders will only care/notice that customers are pissed off if it makes a dent in their dividend. Half of them probably don't even know what GW does as they'll own a whole bunch of shares in loads of companies.

[Lancel]

If their plan was to say "Screw you and take it" they wouldn't have posted anything at all, as that would just fan the flames, but either way, we'll see what happens. Maybe nothing will, which will be about the same effect. The message carries no meaning if there is no subsequent action.

[addamsfamily36]

Actually, I took that to be the most friendly form of "go screw yourselves" I've heard in a long time.

Translation:
"We're going to move all your complaint comments into their own specially little place where you can all scream and vomit bile to your hearts content. Meanwhile, if you bother to post any complaints anywhere where they can actually be seen, we're going to smack them down like a redheaded step child. Have a nice day."


I'm not sure thats really how the translation or the intent of the message comes across.

its more a case of

translation: WOAH!!!!!!!!! our inbox/threads/everything was flooded with angry mail over that last few days!! ARGHHHHHHH *runs around the room in panic*
breathe....
breathe...
Now, as much as we appreciate and understand your frustration, there is very little we as *the web dudes* can do, and no amount of spamming us with frustrated letters and hate mail is going to make us in charge of the company, so we have passed on a report/notification of your concerns to a higher power which is all we can do. so now that there is nothing else we can do currently, can we please enjoy talking about the hobby and not turn topics into hate threads and not let small children who may be reading be exposed to foul language.

[The Green Git]

And the share holders will only care/notice that customers are pissed off if it makes a dent in their dividend.

This. The people making the money decisions don't care about feelings, your loyalty or happiness or anything else except the bottom line. There is only one way to send the message: stop buying.

[Lancel]

That's not entirely the case either. Shareholders care about the customer because they know their feelings affect said bottom line. People get pissed, what happens? Sales drop, their next dividend shrinks, and generally they have twice as much work to do to fix that. A good businessman doesn't wait for sales to drop before acting, they act sooner because letting it fester means more work later and a smaller next paycheck. Why wait? The CEO certainly won't, because if the next dividend check is smaller because someone let sales drop, guess whose getting blamed? He'll try to stop it before it makes the next quarterly say "Sales took a nosedive."

This makes the assumption of competence mind, and that they follow the company more than just reading what their last dividend check was.

So what does that mean for us?

Uhh.

Actually it means all this complaining and threatening sales is exactly what we should be doing to make something happen. Carry on.

[Deadlift]

I for one wont stop buying, I may just have to buy a little less which I suppose maybe the point. Most of us have some kind of budget that we "try" to stick to and so instead of getting X amount of models for that budget I am now going to get less. However what I actually spend will be the same. Not so great for me but I suppose for GW getting the same "kerching" for less material output is a win.

I could try and convince the Mrs to lower her makeup / clothing budget so I can increase my hobby budget, no I cant se that happening either :eek:

[addamsfamily36]

I could try and convince the Mrs to lower her makeup / clothing budget so I can increase my hobby budget, no I cant se that happening either

HAHA this made my day

[wittdooley]

I could try and convince the Mrs to lower her makeup / clothing budget so I can increase my hobby budget, no I cant se that happening either :eek:

Dude, I know, right? My wife spends so much money on makeup it amazes me. But I'm right in line with this. I have a set $ amount to spend every month (I do occasionally go over) so I'll just be getting a marginally lower volume, it would appear. With that being said, I'm so entrenched in the hobby I'm rarely buying anything in a huge bulk anyway.

[Denzark]

Why do women wear makeup and perfume? Cos they're ugly and they smell.

Ha!

But OT...

There is a bit of damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Did they just ignore everyone? No.

Did they say they're deleting everything? No, they are keeping those threads with comments on open to ALLOW the discussion, and they will delete further off topic comments.

Is it reasonable to leave a place to comment but keep new topics OT and without swearing in front of 'lil Timmah!' ? Yes I would say so.

I think the comment on this being corporate level decisions affecting the harmless geeks is correct and the webdudes are hardly the people to get angsty at - don't shoot the messenger after all they are kindly passing the mesage on when they could have just deleted whilst telling Kirby et al that all is well in internet land.

[Wildeybeast]

That's not entirely the case either. Shareholders care about the customer because they know their feelings affect said bottom line. People get pissed, what happens? Sales drop, their next dividend shrinks, and generally they have twice as much work to do to fix that. A good businessman doesn't wait for sales to drop before acting, they act sooner because letting it fester means more work later and a smaller next paycheck. Why wait? The CEO certainly won't, because if the next dividend check is smaller because someone let sales drop, guess whose getting blamed? He'll try to stop it before it makes the next quarterly say "Sales took a nosedive."

This makes the assumption of competence mind, and that they follow the company more than just reading what their last dividend check was.

So what does that mean for us?

Uhh.

Actually it means all this complaining and threatening sales is exactly what we should be doing to make something happen. Carry on.

You are mixing up the role of the shareholders and the management of the company. Shareholders only interaction with the company is when they get their money or the periodical reports/profit forecasts that GW send to the FTSE. The CEO will, as you say try to anticipate falls in sales (or at least his underlings will), but I'm guessing GW has already factored this into their pricing model and they aren't going to change it. They are gambling that people may complain but ultimately most of them will swallow the price rise because they still want the models. Only a mass boycott will have any affect.

[DarkLink]

What's with all this "businesses and capitalism are evil" bull? You are choosing, of your own free will, to spend money on GW's product. GW has created a game that you can go have fun playing. Had they not done so, then no one could have fun playing 40k at all, expensive or not. And if it becomes to expensive, then go find something else to have fun doing. GW is not stealing your money. The shareholders are not stealing your money. You, and you alone, have the ability to either continue to spend your money, or to just walk away.

Not to say that the implications of denying online sales probably makes it a poor business decision, but whatever. As far as hobbies go, 40k really isn't all that expensive.

[DadExtraordinaire]

I wonder if the disconnect isn't between GW and the fanbase, but rather between the Creative entities at GW (the ones responsible for actually making and designing the products) and the Corporate entities at GW (the ones in charge of the money and, therefore, the business decisions.)

I think this acknowledgement supports that, but that's just me.
IMHO I think so too. I think you got it spot on.

[DadExtraordinaire]

I really think that the only way that GW will listen is if somehow the customer discontent makes it way to the mainstream media (and then to its shareholders).

Remember the only constituency that Kirby answers to are the shareholders. When they start asking "why are customers so pissed off?" then perhaps you'll start seeing some action.
Spot on.

[DadExtraordinaire]

You are mixing up the role of the shareholders and the management of the company. Shareholders only interaction with the company is when they get their money or the periodical reports/profit forecasts that GW send to the FTSE. The CEO will, as you say try to anticipate falls in sales (or at least his underlings will), but I'm guessing GW has already factored this into their pricing model and they aren't going to change it. They are gambling that people may complain but ultimately most of them will swallow the price rise because they still want the models. Only a mass boycott will have any affect.
Incorrect on the shareholders. If there are executive shareholders on the board then they DO have a say and a powerful one at that too!

[DadExtraordinaire]

What's with all this "businesses and capitalism are evil" bull? You are choosing, of your own free will, to spend money on GW's product. GW has created a game that you can go have fun playing. Had they not done so, then no one could have fun playing 40k at all, expensive or not. And if it becomes to expensive, then go find something else to have fun doing. GW is not stealing your money. The shareholders are not stealing your money. You, and you alone, have the ability to either continue to spend your money, or to just walk away.

Not to say that the implications of denying online sales probably makes it a poor business decision, but whatever. As far as hobbies go, 40k really isn't all that expensive.
So you telling me that you would be happy if the price of gas went up by 25%? If your place of work was an hour and half drive away with no public transportation to speak of, your telling me you would lump it and like it without expressing unhappiness?

I think you would.

However, I hear what you are saying DL with the hobby point, but people are allowed to be unhappy, it's not nerd rage it's people expressing their unhappiness, and sharing it with us all.

I can empathise with the Aus, NZ and so forth as for some people it could be their only joy and that is being hit massively in their eyes, through no fault of their own.......let them have a blast, no harm in not letting them...is there?

[wittdooley]

So you telling me that you would be happy if the price of gas went up by 25%? If your place of work was an hour and half drive away with no public transportation to speak of, your telling me you would lump it and like it without expressing unhappiness?


Haha, Hasn't it though in the US? At this time last year, the average cost of a gallon in the states was $2.80; today it's at $4.00. That's a 43% increase.

[Psychosplodge]

Polite nothing reply.

not much more to say really...

[Drew da Destroya]

So you telling me that you would be happy if the price of gas went up by 25%? If your place of work was an hour and half drive away with no public transportation to speak of, your telling me you would lump it and like it without expressing unhappiness?

I think you would.

However, I hear what you are saying DL with the hobby point, but people are allowed to be unhappy, it's not nerd rage it's people expressing their unhappiness, and sharing it with us all.

I can empathise with the Aus, NZ and so forth as for some people it could be their only joy and that is being hit massively in their eyes, through no fault of their own.......let them have a blast, no harm in not letting them...is there?

Gas isn't a luxury item, so that argument is void.

That isn't to say that people can't complain about the prices, but at the end of the day, it's a hobby. You can choose to buy models from GW or not. If enough people choose not to buy models, then it may make an impact, but that's unlikely to happen. A large percentage of players probably aren't even aware of the price increase, and may not even notice once it goes live. Granted, I don't have numbers on that, so this is probably a strawman argument, but the "dedicated" followers of the forums and blogs likely don't make up the majority of GW's playerbase.

I mean, somebody has to be buying those LOTR minis!

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

I wonder if the disconnect isn't between GW and the fanbase, but rather between the Creative entities at GW (the ones responsible for actually making and designing the products) and the Corporate entities at GW (the ones in charge of the money and, therefore, the business decisions.)

I think this acknowledgement supports that, but that's just me.

I have to agree; thought that the divide has been around for a while.

[Mobynick]

For what it is worth I think we as a gaming community actually stung GW when we hit their FB page. Lets face it their FB page is a marketing tool and we used it (very effectivly by the looks) to send a clear message. I'm of two minds as to how to deal with them now. Do we continue hitting the FB page until managementresponds or do we wait and see. If we do the first, posts will get deleted and start to slow which may be seen as acceptance....and the 2nd option may be seen as acceptance too. What we as a community need to do is decied on a course of action, agree to it, and apply some pressure.

Why, because if we don't next year there will be more price hikes and sooner or later even the truely stupid will have to agree the the hobby has become over priced.

So generals of the WWW what is our next move?

[BrokenWing]

I look at GW prices kind of like this:

1. I don't have to buy it if I don't want to. This is really important, because I *hate* gas price increases, but not GW price increases. Why? Because GW is trying to make more money and adjust for inflation (raising prices 2-3% a year =adjusting for inflation). Oil companies are trying to make more money and typically price gouge in times of heightened need. They are also clearly all in it together, because their prices all increase by exactly the same amount at the same time. When wargaming companies increase their prices they do so at different times and different rates. Also, I can say "You know, I like my army as is for now, maybe later when I have more money I'll buy more models" but if gas goes up, I just have to suck it up and take it, because I don't have a viable alternative.


2. 40k/Fantasy and other wargames are expensive hobbies, but they are far from the most expensive. To play 40k you can spend about $200-300, give or take. To play say..>Golf...you're looking at $200...per club, for a good one. Not to mention buying balls when you eventually run out (and you will) plus the shoes, the gloves, the golf bag, course expenses, fuel to drive to the course, etc. If you want to water ski, all you need to do is buy yourself a boat. If you buy a crappy boat, that's still going to cost a bare minimum of $1,000 and if you buy a new one you're looking at upwards of 65,000. Then you need the skiis (averaging between 90-200 a pair), rope ($60), fuel costs (about as much as filling up a truck's gas tank), food (because you're usually out around one or both meal times). If you want to really get into the hobby, there's a ton more equipment to buy and I haven't even brought up a life vest ($60 for a bad one) or a wetsuit ($100+).

If you want to play Magic, you're looking at $4 per pack, several dollars or more per individual card, $35 for a fat pack, $10-15 for a play mat, $8 or so for card sleeves. Oh and then a new edition or new set will come out and you have to spend that money all over again...and again...and again.

I doubt I need to go into how much it costs to buy and fix up old cars as a hobby. Stamp collecting is cheap, I'll give you that. Mountain climbing requires alot of equipment costs and licensing.

Now back to 40k. Lets say you want to play Space Marines in 2,000 point games. That's $35 for the codex, about $200 for the army, $10 for dice, a crappy tape measure you probably already have in a drawer some where and if you don't know anyone with the rulebook, $57 for the rulebook.

After that? If you're really into the hobby, it will become fairly expensive over time. Though it won't even come close to some of the other hobbies I mentioned. If you just enjoy the games and are set with 1 army at 2,000 points (those people do exist) then what? Well, every 5-6 years you need a new codex and new rulebook. Unless you break all your dice or have a dice fetish (like me) you never need to buy dice again. You'll probably have to replace your crappy tape measure with another crappy one.

3. One of the big complaints is "other companies don't charge as much." Well...they do. On average, game companies with high quality models charge as much as Games Workshop, close to as much or actually *more.* Other companies, like Reaper, don't. But Reaper has crappy games and only about %50 of their miniature range approaches anything close to GW quality. This complaint stems from alot of people who play the game, but for some reason hate the company.

4. GW models increase in quality almost every year now. The Dark Eldar models may be the single greatest non-Forge World models ever produced anywhere. I'm willing to pay for that.


Ultimately, if you don't like the prices, stop buying. Most of the people who rage about the prices talk a big game, but keep right on buying.

[xxvaderxx]

Actually, I took that to be the most friendly form of "go screw yourselves" I've heard in a long time.

Translation:
"We're going to move all your complaint comments into their own specially little place where you can all scream and vomit bile to your hearts content. Meanwhile, if you bother to post any complaints anywhere where they can actually be seen, we're going to smack them down like a redheaded step child. Have a nice day."



Actually i thought the same.

[Deadlift]

Just been reading the FB thread, not sure how accurate one comment is but the general thrust of his post was to say buying some Forgeworld equivalent models is actually cheaper than buying the GW model in Australia, LR and Dreads were mentioned. If this is the case I am sure it wont be for long.

[Wolfshade]

So you telling me that you would be happy if the price of gas went up by 25%? If your place of work was an hour and half drive away with no public transportation to speak of, your telling me you would lump it and like it without expressing unhappiness?

I think you would.


I have experienced petrol prices that are now almost double what they were so a 25% increase isn't too bad, granted most of that is owing to duty rises rather than the manufacture increasing prices... but at then end of the day with your car, if you can no longer afford to run it you find an alternative, I cycle now instead of driving my car for 30 mins, my other option is to lump it. The petrol company knows if I want fuel I will pay those prices as there is no alternative. Similarly, if GW increase their price people will still pay it if they want it. It just takes longer to save up for it ;). As for GW destroying their sales IIRC the total sales were down but profits were up so if mass selling a lower prices isn't working lower volume with greater profits might. It sucks because its our plastic crack and I am fortunate enough to be within the UK so the prices aren't that uncomfortable.

[Mobynick]

Just been reading the FB thread, not sure how accurate one comment is but the general thrust of his post was to say buying some Forgeworld equivalent models is actually cheaper than buying the GW model in Australia, LR and Dreads were mentioned. If this is the case I am sure it wont be for long.

Just so you know if I was to buy a Valkerie in Aust from GW it will cost me $103 with free post.
From GW UK with 20 pounds shipping added on it cost me $89.40
From Malstrom I could get 2 valks for $110 with free postage.

While the have stopped Malstrom and the likes I can still order from GW UK and save a packet, so what really was the point. I'm not buying from GW again but if I was going too I'd still not order from GW Aust.

[HsojVvad]

Lets see, to get to a GW store, it's an hour away, and with the price of gas it will cost alot to get there and get home, and the increase of a GW increase, yeah, GW will be loosing out this time.

Before it was high gas price and go to GW store now it's high gas prices and higher GW prices. Guess who misses out for me? I need gas to get around, I don't need GW.

It's funny GW needs us but they do everything to push us away or at least not buy from them but by other means.

Before I would always buy brand new, now, just like how I buy a car, previously used :P

[MarneusCalgar]

Thankfully they finally answered on their FB page but... The angry nerd rage against them is now unstoppable...

5 price increases within the last 3 years, just after they told us that in 4 years they wouldn´t increase them...

Hope they reconsider this piece of crap and **** and keep these prices for a year or so

[dragoon161523]

I just have something simple to say, unlike gas prices, the fact that our votes really don't mean anything, or the fact that unions are losing their footing because someone is always willing to do the job cheaper and no one cares about quality anymore.

All of you do realize that the one thing we as consumers can affect is a LUXURY item right???

This is the WORLD WIDE WEB, is it really so difficult for everyone to get together worldwide and boycot GW's prices for just 1 week or 1 month. Do you really have so little self control that you cannot go 1 month w/o buying a new GW product?

If the whole world stopped for 1 week or better 1 month I do believe GW's (LUXURY) product will have a price drop.

Join together and say enough is enough, or is humanity so self absorbed that we truly cannot come together on anything?

[wittdooley]

I just placed my pre-order for the new Fine Cast miniatures I want today. Hoorah.

[Mobynick]

I beleive that the month of July was the boycott month? Perhaps we need a fresh "Boycott" thread?

[Gir]

Just been reading the FB thread, not sure how accurate one comment is but the general thrust of his post was to say buying some Forgeworld equivalent models is actually cheaper than buying the GW model in Australia, LR and Dreads were mentioned. If this is the case I am sure it wont be for long.

It is very much the case, and has been for quite a while.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

I just laugh that GW Aus will be finding themselves in all sort of trouble now again. I mean who is going to pay lots of money for a product that cost less in other countries. Add to that, end of year financing and sales reports will show that GW Aus isn't as good as other countries like the UK...wonder why that is.
Could it be we have to pay more, or is it that the hobby down here isn't as popular?

I can tell you that we have gaming stores in every state, hundreds of gaming clubs all over the country, and so many gamers in each state we could fill stadiums with us. The point is GW will just see that at the end of the day our consumption of their products are down, but won't blame that it's there overpricing as their fault.
"hey i guess they just don't play 40k down there that much"
Maybe if they got the prices in line with other countries, it may just put consumption up and sales up as well. But i guess thats GW for thinking there.

Smart tip for any business:
Dont raise prices and watch veteran customes drop out and new ones walk away because its too expensive now, you lower the prices so you keep everyone in the market and attract new customes. End result...lots of new customers make more money for your company than no new customers and veterarans who don't need to spend.

[addamsfamily36]

I just have something simple to say, unlike gas prices, the fact that our votes really don't mean anything, or the fact that unions are losing their footing because someone is always willing to do the job cheaper and no one cares about quality anymore.

All of you do realize that the one thing we as consumers can affect is a LUXURY item right???

This is the WORLD WIDE WEB, is it really so difficult for everyone to get together worldwide and boycot GW's prices for just 1 week or 1 month. Do you really have so little self control that you cannot go 1 month w/o buying a new GW product?

If the whole world stopped for 1 week or better 1 month I do believe GW's (LUXURY) product will have a price drop.

Join together and say enough is enough, or is humanity so self absorbed that we truly cannot come together on anything?

I'm sorry, and this has nothing to do with the fact i think a boycott is a silly idea, but it just simply wouldn't work. reasons to name a few:

- Only a small portion of GW customers are online as part of BOLS and other wargamimg communities. so organising a web boycott will only get you so far.
- Not everyone agrees with the idea of a boycott as they just choose to buy when they can afford. and the ones who are hating GW and their prices already shop elsewhere or not at all anyway.
- kids don't give a crap about economics, buisness etc. So they are going to continue spending their pocket money on plastic
- parents for birthdays and presents and general treats will continue to buy GW products
- retailers will continue to replenish their stock
- new people to the hobby, starter box sets sold etc

the list goes on

[daboarder]

Just so you know if I was to buy a Valkerie in Aust from GW it will cost me $103 with free post.
From GW UK with 20 pounds shipping added on it cost me $89.40
From Malstrom I could get 2 valks for $110 with free postage.

While the have stopped Malstrom and the likes I can still order from GW UK and save a packet, so what really was the point. I'm not buying from GW again but if I was going too I'd still not order from GW Aust.

Can't do that anymore, as of may minimum GW shipping from uk to aus is 70 pounds. That's why this action is illegal according to Australian trade law

[Lane]

That's not entirely the case either. Shareholders care about the customer because they know their feelings affect said bottom line.

A while back I saw a list of major GW shareholders, the largest ones were IIRC investment firms.
I seriously doubt that type of shareholder would give a rat's A-- what GW did until it caused stock value to drop, then they would just sell before they took a loss.

I have also heard that the Shareholders told GW management they felt GW was not doing enough to maximize profits.


... but at then end of the day with your car, if you can no longer afford to run it you find an alternative, I cycle now instead of driving my car for 30 mins, my other option is to lump it.

Wish I had a reasonable alternative to driving to work. I live 20 miles from work, 15 of that is highway and takes 12 minutes, the other 5 takes 23 minutes. If I rode a bike I could not take the highway which would add 30+ minutes driving. That means I would spend 3 hours+ round trip. Public transportation would take as long or longer. Since I work 10-12 hours per day I would have almost no free time.

[Mobynick]

@adamsfamily....no a web boycott proberly won't work but word of it might filter through and throw a switch at GW HQ. Beside being english they proberbly think a web boycott is Geoffery signing laptops. (cricket...you yanks proberbly missed the joke). There is a facebook page set up though if any of you are interested....550 members last time I looked.

[Wolfshade]

... Beside being english they proberbly think a web boycott is Geoffery signing laptops. (cricket...you yanks proberbly missed the joke)...

"I've seen more brains in my pork pie" - G Boycott OBE

(Boycott bingo http://www.flickr.com/photos/testmatchspecial/4910566798/)

[Mobynick]

deleted 2xpost :eek:

[Harry]

Just want to chime in and say that the web team are good guys.

[addamsfamily36]

@adamsfamily....no a web boycott proberly won't work but word of it might filter through and throw a switch at GW HQ. Beside being english they proberbly think a web boycott is Geoffery signing laptops. (cricket...you yanks proberbly missed the joke). There is a facebook page set up though if any of you are interested....550 members last time I looked.


To be fair I'm english and that joke skipped me. But i' not a cricket fan. shameful i know.

As to the facebook page, i shall have to stay clear. I don't welcome a price increase etc but I can't boycott my hobby either.

As a student i have little enough cash as it is so i am very specific as to when i can afford to indulge in my hobby.

Unfortunetly as much as i wish things were cheaper, i have jsut come to accept it. When i first started Uni i could buy a loaf of bread ( a decent quality loaf) for under £1. Now it's more like £1.50. I could buy Value range from tesco etc but i would rather pay that little bit more and enjoy the whole oaf of bread instead of buying cardboard quality bread that i can barely force myself to eat. The same goes for my hobby. I would rather pay for the quality of the product than change system or product. If that means waiting a few extra weeks to gather the money to buy a box of marines, i'm ok with that. If anything it makes me value the stuff i already own even more.

[DadExtraordinaire]

I beleive that the month of July was the boycott month? Perhaps we need a fresh "Boycott" thread?
Why July?

[dragoon161523]

I'm sorry, and this has nothing to do with the fact i think a boycott is a silly idea, but it just simply wouldn't work. reasons to name a few:

- Only a small portion of GW customers are online as part of BOLS and other wargamimg communities. so organising a web boycott will only get you so far.
- Not everyone agrees with the idea of a boycott as they just choose to buy when they can afford. and the ones who are hating GW and their prices already shop elsewhere or not at all anyway.
- kids don't give a crap about economics, buisness etc. So they are going to continue spending their pocket money on plastic
- parents for birthdays and presents and general treats will continue to buy GW products
- retailers will continue to replenish their stock
- new people to the hobby, starter box sets sold etc

the list goes on

Don't want to poke a nerve or anything but, I can create a long list detailing why I should not try or do anything.....ever. Just because its difficult you say give up before you even try?

Facebook-mass emails-word of mouth-everyone knows someone who visits forums or facebook, its really not that complicated. You go ahead and just quit before you try though that seems to be the way most people deal with things these days.

As before don't want to bicker, but saying its too hard and making a list why is a very lame excuse, although a lot faster and easier then actually trying to make a difference.:rolleyes:

[Mobynick]

Dad ... No idea that was the general consensis.

Too hard, blind acceptance, don't rock the boat...these things are fine, some people fight injustice others live with it. I live by the motto "Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees".c I'm not poking fun at anyone who accepts the price change I'm just looking to recruit like minded gamers :)

[flekkzo]

Now back to 40k. Lets say you want to play Space Marines in 2,000 point games. That's $35 for the codex, about $200 for the army, $10 for dice, a crappy tape measure you probably already have in a drawer some where and if you don't know anyone with the rulebook, $57 for the rulebook.


$200 for a space marine army? How? Are you getting better prices than what I get? :)

[addamsfamily36]

Don't want to poke a nerve or anything but, I can create a long list detailing why I should not try or do anything.....ever. Just because its difficult you say give up before you even try?

Facebook-mass emails-word of mouth-everyone knows someone who visits forums or facebook, its really not that complicated. You go ahead and just quit before you try though that seems to be the way most people deal with things these days.

As before don't want to bicker, but saying its too hard and making a list why is a very lame excuse, although a lot faster and easier then actually trying to make a difference.

Nerve picked

my point wasn't that it was hard in fact where did i ever say it was too hard? If i want to fight for something i will. so don't suggest that i'm some sort of quitter when you have no idea who i am.

the point i was making was that a web arranged boycott will have no impact for reason's listed. but again someone hasn't been reading have they? My list was in response to a boycott of buying, not to spamming the net with protest through emails and over forums.

As to making a difference. Go up to GW HQ and protest outside with banners and chants. That might get some attention.

As a student i've had a lot to get wound up about the past year. We tried and what did it get us?

Sometimes protesting/uproar from a community can work, but you have to be realistic sometimes. And thats what i'm being, realistic. A web boycott won't work for said reasons. That doesn't mean you have to give up. If you want to make your voice heard make it heard, but think big.

I have nothing to protest against. So i'm not producing any lame excuses or giving up over anything. I was however pointing out flaws in a planned scheme and as a result, maybe a new better plan could be suggested or developed by those wishing to protest.

Fighting for what you think is right is great, but you have to have a decent plan.

In future read everything first

[dragoon161523]

Nerve picked

my point wasn't that it was hard in fact where did i ever say it was too hard? If i want to fight for something i will. so don't suggest that i'm some sort of quitter when you have no idea who i am.

the point i was making was that a web arranged boycott will have no impact for reason's listed. but again someone hasn't been reading have they? My list was in response to a boycott of buying, not to spamming the net with protest through emails and over forums.

As to making a difference. Go up to GW HQ and protest outside with banners and chants. That might get some attention.

As a student i've had a lot to get wound up about the past year. We tried and what did it get us?

Sometimes protesting/uproar from a community can work, but you have to be realistic sometimes. And thats what i'm being, realistic. A web boycott won't work for said reasons. That doesn't mean you have to give up. If you want to make your voice heard make it heard, but think big.

I have nothing to protest against. So i'm not producing any lame excuses or giving up over anything. I was however pointing out flaws in a planned scheme and as a result, maybe a new better plan could be suggested or developed by those wishing to protest.

Fighting for what you think is right is great, but you have to have a decent plan.

In future read everything first

I read quite well thank you and I've read every post.

I never said anything about protesting...actually if you had READ my post you would have seen that I believe its pointless to just yell and wave hands and signs in the air.
As far as the facebook thing with 500+ on it, thats only a small fraction, hell I don't even use facebook, but I heard about it.

If you really think not buying product for a month worldwide won't make a difference,even with the tiny small 60% we could reach, then I really have nothing else to say.

[dawnofthedead]

GW needs a wake up call. I think we should email their websites (not facebook) telling them what we don't like. Maybe not buy anything GW for a month or two. If they got hit with say 10,000 emails or so I bet it would get their attention. Or if they started losing money. Just a suggestion:)

[addamsfamily36]

I read quite well thank you and I've read every post.

I never said anything about protesting...actually if you had READ my post you would have seen that I believe its pointless to just yell and wave hands and signs in the air.
As far as the facebook thing with 500+ on it, thats only a small fraction, hell I don't even use facebook, but I heard about it.

If you really think not buying product for a month worldwide won't make a difference,even with the tiny small 60% we could reach, then I really have nothing else to say.

so ranting on facebook or going on a "buying strike" Isn't considered protesting?

I also think you've missed my point entirely. Yes if everyone worldwide didn't buy for a month then wow that would really hit home, but it won't happen. i have no idea where you have gotten 60% from, but nowhere near 60% of GW's customer base will partake in a "no buy" protest for reasons listed previously. Kids will buy what they want and will not be phased by things they don;t really understand yet. Parents will continue to buy. Hobbyist's, veterans, regulars will also not agree with he boycott and will just ignore it and those are the ones that even here about it. At my local GW at home, only 3 of us out of about 30 are on any online forums or in frequent touch with topics such as this. Also, I have noticed that a fair few people that are for the boycott idea, have stated previously in the past that they buy from the discount stockists or even from ebay. This being the case, if they jumped on board there would be no noticable effect at GW's end.

Waving banners isn't necessarily any better "hence my student protest reference", but a smart plan could be devised. But a "no buy" boycott just seems to have too many flaws for it to work.

[Gir]

Anyone else notice an eerie similatry between GW and Telstra (Of about 5 years ago)?

[Psychosplodge]

Anyone else notice an eerie similatry between GW and Telsra (Of about 5 years ago)?

What's a telsra?

[Gir]

What's a telsra?

A typo. I meant to say Telstra.

For thoughs who don't know:
Telstra was the main telecom in Aus. They owned the entire Australian network, and where huge pioneers in the telecom market. They had really really high prices because "They where a premium brand and had the best product", but they had the worst customer service in Australia because they just expected people to deal with it and buy their products anyway. People rapidly started leaving and joining smaller, better priced telecoms, causeing Telstra's share price to fall in half.

It eventually got to the point where they had to get a new CEO in, who made EVERYTHING customer centric. This saw prices fall (while still being slightly more expensive then others to maintain the premium brand), and customer sataisfaction drastically increase, and the shareprice has started to climb back up again.

(Disclaimer: I work for Telstra, and the opinions expressed in this post are not of those of Telstra)

[Psychosplodge]

Thanks, I wouldn't have known without the typo but the google search might have meant more lol

[daboarder]

A typo. I meant to say Telstra.

For thoughs who don't know:
Telstra was the main telecom in Aus. They owned the entire Australian network, and where huge pioneers in the telecom market. They had really really high prices because "They where a premium brand and had the best product", but they had the worst customer service in Australia because they just expected people to deal with it and buy their products anyway. People rapidly started leaving and joining smaller, better priced telecoms, causeing Telstra's share price to fall in half.

It eventually got to the point where they had to get a new CEO in, who made EVERYTHING customer centric. This saw prices fall (while still being slightly more expensive then others to maintain the premium brand), and customer sataisfaction drastically increase, and the shareprice has started to climb back up again.

(Disclaimer: I work for Telstra, and the opinions expressed in this post are not of those of Telstra)

wasn't there a government "bailout" type arrangement in there at some point? might be a different case though because Telstra was government owned.

[dragoon161523]

so ranting on facebook or going on a "buying strike" Isn't considered protesting?

I also think you've missed my point entirely. Yes if everyone worldwide didn't buy for a month then wow that would really hit home, but it won't happen. i have no idea where you have gotten 60% from, but nowhere near 60% of GW's customer base will partake in a "no buy" protest for reasons listed previously. Kids will buy what they want and will not be phased by things they don;t really understand yet. Parents will continue to buy. Hobbyist's, veterans, regulars will also not agree with he boycott and will just ignore it and those are the ones that even here about it. At my local GW at home, only 3 of us out of about 30 are on any online forums or in frequent touch with topics such as this. Also, I have noticed that a fair few people that are for the boycott idea, have stated previously in the past that they buy from the discount stockists or even from ebay. This being the case, if they jumped on board there would be no noticable effect at GW's end.

Waving banners isn't necessarily any better "hence my student protest reference", but a smart plan could be devised. But a "no buy" boycott just seems to have too many flaws for it to work.

O.K. last post response...good golly miss molly

My facebook response was referring to communication not protest....woosh went right over your head...so only 3 out of 30 of you use forums huh...are your lips stapled shut, are you not allowed to speak to these 27 people...geez guy give me a break. If your neighbor is blind are you just going to stand there and not tell him the cars coming...let me know when any of this sinks in. I'm not saying they have to take your side, but if you tell them....at least you have given them a choice.

My point was about communication, something very lacking these days.

1st a boycott is a boycott it has a different definition then protest, the only word in the definition of protest to link my statements the way you want them linked is (action). Where boycott is VERY specific thus NOT a protest, but.....a......boycott.

A boycott is a form of consumer activism involving the act of voluntarily abstaining from using, buying, or dealing with a person, organization.

A protest is an expression of objection, by words or by actions, to particular events, policies or situations. Protests can take many different forms, from individual statements to mass demonstrations. Protesters may organize a protest as a way of publicly making their opinions heard in an attempt to influence public opinion.

Once again your right though, don't express your opinion to those 27 people at your shop....then maybe they won't have a discussion with 27 people they may know etc. etc. etc. thats my 60%, but you are my prime example of whats stopping this from happening, or at least your frame of mind is.

I could be wrong, but from your responses I have drawn my conclusion about you. I'm very much a realist and I don't see this as difficult as long as everyone discusses it with someone else. Of course conversation is lacking these days.

Well I have enjoyed this and maybe our discussion has convinced a few people to speak to someone they know who may not be informed about this....and that means I have done my part, have you done yours?

Nice chatting with you, I bid you.....good day:)

[addamsfamily36]

O.K. last post response...good golly miss molly

My facebook response was referring to communication not protest....woosh went right over your head...so only 3 out of 30 of you use forums huh...are your lips stapled shut, are you not allowed to speak to these 27 people...geez guy give me a break. If your neighbor is blind are you just going to stand there and not tell him the cars coming...let me know when any of this sinks in. I'm not saying they have to take your side, but if you tell them....at least you have given them a choice.

My point was about communication, something very lacking these days.

1st a boycott is a boycott it has a different definition then protest, the only word in the definition of protest to link my statements the way you want them linked is (action). Where boycott is VERY specific thus NOT a protest, but.....a......boycott.

A boycott is a form of consumer activism involving the act of voluntarily abstaining from using, buying, or dealing with a person, organization.

A protest is an expression of objection, by words or by actions, to particular events, policies or situations. Protests can take many different forms, from individual statements to mass demonstrations. Protesters may organize a protest as a way of publicly making their opinions heard in an attempt to influence public opinion.

Once again your right though, don't express your opinion to those 27 people at your shop....then maybe they won't have a discussion with 27 people they may know etc. etc. etc. thats my 60%, but you are my prime example of whats stopping this from happening, or at least your frame of mind is.

I could be wrong, but from your responses I have drawn my conclusion about you. I'm very much a realist and I don't see this as difficult as long as everyone discusses it with someone else. Of course conversation is lacking these days.

Well I have enjoyed this and maybe our discussion has convinced a few people to speak to someone they know who may not be informed about this....and that means I have done my part, have you done yours?

Nice chatting with you, I bid you.....good day

Ok i agree that your point was about communcation, but the fact remains that it would be almost impossible to arrange an organised boycott to the scale of which it would make a difference. Yes i talk to the other 30 or so people i know down at my local GW but i also know them as a group. There are those who don't really care other than where there next plastic fix is coming from. there are those who enjoy the social side more and just play with what they already own, and then there are a few of us who do debate and talk about the business side of the hobby, but the fact of the matter is we all love the hobby and as a group we all enjoy the fact we can meet up once or twice a week and use our store free of charge. Practically no other hobby offers that service. Hell i would even be willing to pay a membership fee if it helped to contribute to my local GW, instead I am happy to pay that price through the price of the product.

So i will spread the news, but i am also a realist and am aware what my local response will be. In fact i've already had a chat with a fair few of them on the topic already and the percentage of those interested was minimal. And that group of 30 represents the veterans the regulars the older kids etc, the ones who are educated enough to care about a boycott or not. so if only say 3 of them join the boycott thats 10% of a small portion of our local shops overall customer base. And as a long time customer, i am perfectly aware that my and many other older players spend-age tends to be greater in lump sums, but also less frequent. It's been a month since i last brought anything because i have had more important costs in my life. The kids who spend weekly sometimes daily (if they are spoilt) however will continue to fuel GW's weekly average sales and as long as those figures remain consistent then they won't flinch.

All i'm trying to point out is that the percentage of the community that will join the boycott will be far less than those that won't. And on top of that, a lot of forum users that are proposing a no spend boycott also don't buy direct from GW in the first place. so if anything the discount stockists will be more effected, which i hardly see as a good thing if people want to keep the discount stores about. A boycott could hurt more than just GW , and thats a factor people are overlooking.

As to the protest/boycott definitions, you state that a protest is an expression of objection by words or actions. A boycott is an action. you can dress it up as much as you like, but its a direct response to an event. So it is an action of expressing an objection to the current situation, therefore a protest. It might not be a lets wave banners and march definition of a protest, but it is a form of protest. The dictionary even uses the word protest:

-to refuse to have dealings with (a person, organization, etc.) or refuse to buy (a product) as a protest or means of coercion.



I could be wrong, but from your responses I have drawn my conclusion about you. I'm very much a realist and I don't see this as difficult as long as everyone discusses it with someone else. Of course conversation is lacking these days.

This is my main problem with you. You ask for a break but it was you who attacked my original offering which was if anything only trying to point out that a boycott might not be the best idea, i by no means said to just give up. You also draw conclusions of the type of character i am yet didn't ask about my initial post, just presumed my intent and twisted it. If after every post i make you are going to make a new presumption or conclusion of who i am or what my intent is based upon how you are choosing to read my offerings, then yeh it's been nice chatting to you too. have a good weekend.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

Anyone else notice an eerie similatry between GW and Telstra (Of about 5 years ago)?

Given that Telstra dominates the communication market here, absolutely.

[Gir]

wasn't there a government "bailout" type arrangement in there at some point? might be a different case though because Telstra was government owned.

It used to be government owned, but it was then sold off. There was no bailout as far as I remember.