GW Email Campaign

[Arch_Bishop]

Greetings fellow hobbyists,

As I'm sure many of you are aware, GW is changing there Terms and Conditions, explicitly forbidding EU retailers from shipping outside of the EU.

This is not a rumor anymore, as we can see from the post of Maelstrom's website, and the post on Wayland Games' facebook page.

I live in Australia, and with the exuberant cost of GW products here, this could well spell the end of the hobby for me.

I have played 40K and Fantasy since I was around 12 years old. I remember picking up a White Dwarf for the first time and being amazed and bewildered by this mysterious world; I was hooked. I had a period where I didn't play during my teenage years, where I got myself into all sorts of trouble. One of the things that got me out of said trouble, was getting back into this hobby, as it gave me something to focus on, and a new reality to craft. I have gotten many friends into the hobby, including my lady, and Warhammer is now something we all love and share together. I'm sure many of you can relate to all of this....

I am urging all of you who are about to be affected by this change, and are finding yourselves in similar situations, to take the time to write an email to GW, outlining your grievances. Speak from the heart. Tell them your story, make them understand your love for their world, and how much it will pain you to have to give it all away as you are 'priced out of the market' as it were.

I know a lot of people will dismiss this as being pointless, but so is just complaining. If you are going to lose something you love so dearly, the least you can do is fight for it just a little! It won't take more than 10-20 mins to write a thoughtful letter to GW.

How will they know our pain unless we tell them?

This may all seem rather tragic and dramatic to a lot of people, but to me, this is all very real. If I can no longer order online, I can no longer afford to play this game, and that will be a massive lose to me. I love this hobby, and I will mourn its lose, so I am at least going to try to save it for myself.

You can contact GW at: '[email protected]'.

This is the only email address I could find, so if anyone else has a more direct email address, please post it.

Please, get behind this, and do what you can to defend the hobby!

We all fight on imaginary battlefields, so now fight on another one (i.e. the internet)!


Thank you for taking the time to read this,

- Bishop

[Skragger]

Hey Arch! I've E-mailed my GW rep with your story (and mine as well). With a bunch of questions about the resin switch, the price increase, and the southern hemisphere/EU shipping hullabaloo. I can't give out her E-mail address to anyone here (that would be very unfair to her), but when I get a reply, I'll let you all know! :D

[DadExtraordinaire]

Greetings fellow hobbyists,

As I'm sure many of you are aware, GW is changing there Terms and Conditions, explicitly forbidding EU retailers from shipping outside of the EU.

This is not a rumor anymore, as we can see from the post of Maelstrom's website, and the post on Wayland Games' facebook page.

I live in Australia, and with the exuberant cost of GW products here, this could well spell the end of the hobby for me.

I have played 40K and Fantasy since I was around 12 years old. I remember picking up a White Dwarf for the first time and being amazed and bewildered by this mysterious world; I was hooked. I had a period where I didn't play during my teenage years, where I got myself into all sorts of trouble. One of the things that got me out of said trouble, was getting back into this hobby, as it gave me something to focus on, and a new reality to craft. I have gotten many friends into the hobby, including my lady, and Warhammer is now something we all love and share together. I'm sure many of you can relate to all of this....

I am urging all of you who are about to be affected by this change, and are finding yourselves in similar situations, to take the time to write an email to GW, outlining your grievances. Speak from the heart. Tell them your story, make them understand your love for their world, and how much it will pain you to have to give it all away as you are 'priced out of the market' as it were.

I know a lot of people will dismiss this as being pointless, but so is just complaining. If you are going to lose something you love so dearly, the least you can do is fight for it just a little! It won't take more than 10-20 mins to write a thoughtful letter to GW.

How will they know our pain unless we tell them?

This may all seem rather tragic and dramatic to a lot of people, but to me, this is all very real. If I can no longer order online, I can no longer afford to play this game, and that will be a massive lose to me. I love this hobby, and I will mourn its lose, so I am at least going to try to save it for myself.

You can contact GW at: '[email protected]'.

This is the only email address I could find, so if anyone else has a more direct email address, please post it.

Please, get behind this, and do what you can to defend the hobby!

We all fight on imaginary battlefields, so now fight on another one (i.e. the internet)!


Thank you for taking the time to read this,

- Bishop
Why not for all globally? Surely, other peeps are fed up with the 5 price increases in 3 years? I wouldn't mind but the books keep rising in cost when it is now far cheaper to print and publish a book than it ever has been. I wouldn't mind but even on the histrocial side people seem to think a rule book should cost £30 / $65 - why? I can get a dozen decent books from amazon for that price........

There was a successful campaign against Coke Cola by the consumer in the states a couple of decades ago, that saw Coke Cola be forced into making a U - turn, and they didn't even have the internet then.

So, why not start an internet campaign against GW, like boycotting shops, no purchase of any GW product for 2 months. That will bring them to the table to discuss our concerns........

[wittdooley]

I wouldn't mind but even on the histrocial side people seem to think a rule book should cost £30 / $65 - why? I can get a dozen decent books from amazon for that price........



I'll disagree a bit here. For the amount of book you get in the rulebooks, the price point is fairly standard for publishing. The biggest difference is that Amazon is going to give you their discount on the book, as opposed to selling it at MSRP.

You're still paying a bit more, but their pricing isn't that far off if you conside the rulebook for what it is: either an Art Book or a Text Book:

Some examples:
Art Books
Jay-Z Decoded (http://www.amazon.com/Decoded-Jay-Z/dp/1400068924/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305646003&sr=8-1)

Marvel Art of Marko Djurdjevic (http://www.amazon.com/Marvel-Art-Marko-Djurdjevic/dp/0785139621/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1305646183&sr=1-1)

Text Books
Phtography Textbook (http://www.amazon.com/Photography-10th-Barbara-London/dp/0205711499/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1305646253&sr=1-4)

Public Speaking textbook (http://www.amazon.com/Public-Speaking-Strategies-Success-5th/dp/0205504051/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1305646302&sr=1-4)

The page numbers for each aren't exactly at the 320 pages of the BRB, but they're close enough to make a valid comparison. Just as much work goes into the Warhammer Rulebook as any of these books, so the pricing isn't that off for me.

[Gotthammer]

The email for Australia is:

[email protected]

I'd also consider emailing the "What's New" guys, as I emailed GW a couple of days ago and got a very form letterish non-response:


Thanks for your enquiry. We charge a price we believe is appropriate for the products we sell. Each year we review our prices to ensure we continue to charge what is appropriate. We may raise prices on some products at this time and this can be done to increase revenue, however is more commonly done to offset inflationary pressures such as rising staff costs, rising freight costs and the like. Thus, each year we don’t necessarily raise prices on all products, only those we determine are needed.

Might even send Jervis a letter. Definately going to bring this up at Games Day if it isn't adressed in some manner.

[Arch_Bishop]

The email for Australia is:

[email protected]

I'd also consider emailing the "What's New" guys, as I emailed GW a couple of days ago and got a very form letterish non-response:



Might even send Jervis a letter. Definately going to bring this up at Games Day if it isn't adressed in some manner.

These are fantastic ideas! Thanks for getting involved.

I will email the what's new guys and Jervis, and I will forward my email to the address you provide.

Spread the word!

[Arch_Bishop]

Hey Arch! I've E-mailed my GW rep with your story (and mine as well). With a bunch of questions about the resin switch, the price increase, and the southern hemisphere/EU shipping hullabaloo. I can't give out her E-mail address to anyone here (that would be very unfair to her), but when I get a reply, I'll let you all know! :D

Of course you can't print her email! That is just common sense.

Let us know the outcome.

Thanks for getting behind this.

[Arch_Bishop]

Why not for all globally? Surely, other peeps are fed up with the 5 price increases in 3 years? I wouldn't mind but the books keep rising in cost when it is now far cheaper to print and publish a book than it ever has been. I wouldn't mind but even on the histrocial side people seem to think a rule book should cost £30 / $65 - why? I can get a dozen decent books from amazon for that price........

There was a successful campaign against Coke Cola by the consumer in the states a couple of decades ago, that saw Coke Cola be forced into making a U - turn, and they didn't even have the internet then.

So, why not start an internet campaign against GW, like boycotting shops, no purchase of any GW product for 2 months. That will bring them to the table to discuss our concerns........

I can totally understand your viewpoint, but for me right now, this is about keeping in the hobby AT ALL.

We are getting charged ludicrous prices here, and without Wayland, Maelstrom, and others, I can't afford to play anymore.

I agree that the price hikes are ridiculous, but that is another issue.

Maybe if we get somewhere with this, the next step is pushing that issue?

For me, personally, I want to address the impending doom about to befall Australia and other countries. If prices here stay the same, and EU retailers can't send stock here, I can't play at all.

GAME OVER.

[Regnir]

I'm thinking this announcement and the price hikes are just the first step in GW announcing the formation of the GWFC(Games Workshop Financing Corporation).

Clearly we're all going to need it sooner or later, but why not test the waters in NZ/Aus/Japan and the like?

[Wildeybeast]

We are getting charged ludicrous prices here, and without Wayland, Maelstrom, and others, I can't afford to play anymore.

So don't play then. Why the big internet whinge? Gw is a company, they can charge whatever they like. If people think it is too much, they won't buy it and GW will either go out of business or lower prices, just like everyone other company. And they are well within their rights to stop 3rd party retailers from undercutting their profit margin. I could undertsand if this was food, or petrol or electricity that was being massively jacked up in price, but seriously, it's little plastic men. Either pay what they ask or don't, but stop wasting their time and yours by spamming them with emails.

[wittdooley]

So don't play then. Why the big internet whinge? Gw is a company, they can charge whatever they like. If people think it is too much, they won't buy it and GW will either go out of business or lower prices, just like everyone other company. And they are well within their rights to stop 3rd party retailers from undercutting their profit margin. I could undertsand if this was food, or petrol or electricity that was being massively jacked up in price, but seriously, it's little plastic men. Either pay what they ask or don't, but stop wasting their time and yours by spamming them with emails.

Careful, Wildeybeast.

Logic and reasoning has no place on the internet.

[eldargal]

Right, because charging double what we pay here to Australians and then preventing them from paying our prices by altering the trade terms is totally reasonable.

[Guidebot]

Can't seem to post on the actual news thread itself, so this seemed like the best place for this to go. Apologies if I was wrong.

Honestly:

Games Workshop are absolutely entitled to charge whatever they want for their (excellent) products. Their models are awesome, their games are great and the background to them is epic.

I've been playing GW games for well over a decade (nearer two!) and I've had many, many good times with GW products.

However, it's reached the point now where I simply cannot justify paying this much for these objects, for a number of reasons.

This means that I won't be buying any more GW products. I can't tell you how much this saddens me.

Worse still, a number of my friends, whose main concerns were the prices, have recently decided to take the plunge and start their first armies, largely thanks to my encouragement. I hope they don't feel at all soured by this further increase in price (haven't spoken to them yet), but I find it hard to see them seeing it through in the face of these increases.

With all the other costs of life taking their toll, most of my hobbyist friends have now thrown in the towel as well. It's impossible to justify paying £46.50 for a trio of hive guard when that could easily be food for two weeks or a large chunk of the rent.

I felt somewhat sheepish when, having told my friends that I don't have the cash to go out with them (which is true; drinks are damn expensive) they come over and see on my desk a squad in the process of being painted and sprues littered about the place.

So, here I am. A very long time player, admirer and even employee of GW, finally beaten out by the price increases.

I wish GW nothing but the best, and have nothing but gratitude for all the good times. I'll still pop my head in the door every so often when I pass a GW store, but this hobby is now too expensive for me to maintain as a consumer.

One last thing; to all those in the southern hemisphere, I wish you good luck in trying to get by this heavy embargo - if I'm finding it hard, I have no idea how you guys do it.

-Guidebot

[TheRise]

I've had enough of GW... in everything they do... they can't even send deliviried to the local indy i work at within a week. I am sending this e-mail to the whats new and ordering. i am also sending letters in post. I am getting a petition gonan be signed. I am gonna buy a games day ticket and then show them the letter, not disrupt the day full of selling crap from gw.
There is also a facebook page here: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_109577025797447&notif_t=group_activity

And for thos of you in the southern hemisphere I realy feel for you. GW aren't playing fairly at all. Lets just go use alternative minis from toher ranges and use them in GW sotres. I don't care if they tell em I have to leave I won't!
And anyway I have a nice local indy which i much prefer. And they are feelign it too. but I can't imagine what its like for you in the sotuhern hemisphere.... Damn you GW!

[Wildeybeast]

Right, because charging double what we pay here to Australians and then preventing them from paying our prices by altering the trade terms is totally reasonable.

I never said it was reasonable. Its probably not. However, capitalism won the war against communism, and fair or not, that's the way (most of) the world works. I'm just annoyed with people moaning about GW doing something they are perfectly entitled to do and making out like a company owes them some sort of moral obligation when they clearly don't.

[wittdooley]

And the fruition of participation trophies in kids sports rears its ugly head.

Not everyone gets everything they want in real life. Sorry.

If it's too expensive for you, or if you deem it not worth the cost, then you're perfectly entitled not to buy it. We're planning kids soon. I'll probably make one (if any) Forge World order the year leading up to our first, and the year following our first, as opposed to the traditional 3-5.

I don't drive a BMW not because I can't afford it, but because the cost isn't justified in the value to me. People need to start making these same reasonings for themselves and quit blaming it on the companies.

[lattd]

I never said it was reasonable. Its probably not. However, capitalism won the war against communism, and fair or not, that's the way (most of) the world works. I'm just annoyed with people moaning about GW doing something they are perfectly entitled to do and making out like a company owes them some sort of moral obligation when they clearly don't.

But they aren't you see there's consumer laws that state what they can and cannot do, restrict where a company can sell or how much they can charge is anti competitive practise which is illegal. As well as this a the justification that its to keep in line with inflation is bull when your adding double the rate of inflation.

[Skragger]

well.. GW is still climing the Laffer's Curve.

Its an economic theory, we work with it all the time and never really notice it: How much can I charge for my product before people stop buying it because the price? It can be described in graph form, but I cant get a decent one put together.

Is GW at the top of the curve maybe? Or are they starting to tip over the other side where revenue will be lost because its now outside the spending range of most buyers?

[wittdooley]

But they aren't you see there's consumer laws that state what they can and cannot do, restrict where a company can sell or how much they can charge is anti competitive practise which is illegal. As well as this a the justification that its to keep in line with inflation is bull when your adding double the rate of inflation.

Cite it. And be specific.

Have you read the new contract for EU retailers? I haven't. If you have, and can thusly cite some specifics that none of us seem to be privy to, it could really help to sell your argument.

How is it anti-competetive. If anything, it could be justified as a move by GW to HELP LGSs in the Southern Hemisphere that are surely losing profits due to the present practice.

[TheRise]

Allright maybe we should make evrybody go and charge double than what its worth in other countries and misuse the foreign exchange system.And charge over 200% more than what its worth and make hundreds of percent of profit...

[Gotthammer]

And you can compare it to sailing, or motorbikes, or fast cars, all you want, but it's not a valid comparrison. Look at how much you earn as an adult working full time, then look at a 14-18 year old kid's income, and how big the price rises seem in relative scale. I do that and wonder what the Australian hobby is going to look like in a few years when all the young players drop off due to it not being worth it money wise.

If you want to say something about independant retailers, forget it - I live in western Sydney, one of the most populous regions in Australia, and one of the fastest growing but choked by our state's lousy infrastructure. There are five GW's within fifteen minutes to an hour of me by car.
By bus I can get to three, taking around half an hour to the closest, over an hour at the longest (which would only take twenty minutes to drive to - thanks NSW Labour!).

If I want to go to an independant stockist of wargames, I know of two, both in the centre of the city, almost an hour away by bus (and I live right near one of the few public transport options to get there), or I could pay ten dollars in toll each way, plus parking, to drive in. Or I could drive around half an hour to take a train.

So most wargamers here play GW games. The local meta is infantryhammer for anyone under 20 because the kids can't afford vehicles. Black Reach, the starter set costs $150 - the starter paint set costs $80.


Now this is me, with a full time job, a car and living right near the M2 for easy transport finding the hobby a hassle. Imagine what a kid on $10-$20 a week in Stanhope or Quakers Hill (public transport? Lol, good one) feels like. Even one earning a hundred bucks a week at Woolies would need to save for a fortnight to buy the basic starter set - no glue, no knife, no snips, no paints, no brushes. You need close to $300 to even start the game (don't forget your $50 codex!), and I hope you like Marines or Orks.


Moral obligation to us? No. Going to hurt them and piss off their customers? Most certainly. Not what a smart business does.
Australian retailers are trying everything to cut prices, the recent Wollies vs Coles price war is a sign of that, as the cost of living here (especially NSW) is skyrocketing. We're looking at a 40-70% increase in electricity prices, grocery prices went up 10% in one month alone, etc.
Like you guys say, GW is not a necessity, and people will drop it in the face of these economics. Without customers stores will close, there won't be anywhere for new gamers to learn the trade or even to play, and the hobby will be crippled in Australia.

That's what we don't want to see happen.

[lattd]

Cite it. And be specific.

Have you read the new contract for EU retailers? I haven't. If you have, and can thusly cite some specifics that none of us seem to be privy to, it could really help to sell your argument.

How is it anti-competetive. If anything, it could be justified as a move by GW to HELP LGSs in the Southern Hemisphere that are surely losing profits due to the present practice.

Section 2 competition Act 1998, states a company will breach this law if it the through abuse of a dominant position by a firm who it uses the following practices, predatory pricing, excessive prices, refusal to supply, vertical restraints and price discrimination to maximise profit, gain competitive advantage or otherwise restrict competition.

I can see two breaches from GW in that one paragraph. So tell me how GW isn't breaking the law?

May I also add that due to GW having its headquarters in the UK it follows UK law so you Australian gamers feel free to complain to the office of fair trading, even if your dealing with the Australian company.

[Gotthammer]

And I'll add that a lot of this could be fixed by GW being more transperant in its dealings. By this I mean if they actually explained the price differential, or there is a rumour I've read that they will be comparing prices in June and adjusting to reflect reality, or the supposed local plant opening might make things cheaper.

If Australian customers actually got some feedback it would go a long way IMO.

[wittdooley]

I just skimmed the first two sections, so I won't claim to have read it all. However, in that skimming, the following phrase occurred quite often:

"within the United Kingdom"

My geography isn't as up to date as it could be, and I admittely can't tell you which former Yugoslavian state is which geographically, but I'm fairly certain none of the Southern Hemisphere is "within the United Kingdom."

Gotthammer-- I really appreciate your positioning, but it boils down to this: Australia's state of affairs isn't GWs problem. If cost of living is increasing as you indicate in your post, why should the price of commodities go down? That doesn't make sense. Hell, in the US, based on the expense of living, the cost of a Big Mac at McDonald's varies greatly.

If people continue to order online in the southern hemisphere, won't that as adversly affect the business of the local shop as well?

I agree that the Aussie prices are out-of-line with the rest of their product based on the value of the dollar, but GW is under no obligation to make their product cheaper as a base line.

TheRise -- Your inane ramblings really aren't adding anything of value to the conversation. Your latest post is ignorant in its premise, as worth is determined by what the consumer is willing to pay. Nothing we consume is "worth" the cost if you base it solely on cost of materials and production. Companies make a profit by increasing the product cost over their production costs. Besides, if every company did that, and people still paid for the product, the company shareholders would be ecstatic.

[Baranowito]

One thing that people might be forgetting here is GW's stance on going to a brick and mortar store to purchase their products. As everything around the world is going up in price, the more expensive it is for final products, including shipping. GW has additional costs to stock their shelves in any country that doesn't have a manufacturing facility. Not to mention import taxes in the country that it is shipped to. I wouldn't be surprised if these have gone up too.

Anyway, if GW needs to raise prices overseas, the cost difference of buying a product in store versus online becomes that much greater. People will not buy as much (or any) in store and purchase online. With nobody going to the stores, the local GW's (and other indy retailers) take a huge hit and could potentially go out of business. Now in this case GW has zero presence in these overseas markets.

So this is a logical move by GW and is not unprecendented. Just look at the video game industry and how much more expensive everything is in Europe versus the US or Japan. I'm sure there are other examples at it all relates to profits in this overseas markets.

I'm not saying I completely agree with GW in this action, but from a business standpoint and GW's stated business plans in the past it makes sense to me. Living in the US this doesn't affect me, but I would be very incensed if this did as I've spent a lot of money at GW and would be forced to give up a hobby that I've had a lot of investment in.

In the end it is all supply and demand and GW will only listen when the money stops rolling in.

[Skragger]

*mumbles* took my models away.. burn the GW down...

[lattd]

I just skimmed the first two sections, so I won't claim to have read it all. However, in that skimming, the following phrase occurred quite often:

"within the United Kingdom"

My geography isn't as up to date as it could be, and I admittely can't tell you which former Yugoslavian state is which geographically, but I'm fairly certain none of the Southern Hemisphere is "within the United Kingdom."



Both maelstrom and wayland HQ's are UK based so restricting where they can and cannot sell does apply. Also UK members should flood OFT with complaints about GW pricing as well.

[wittdooley]

Both maelstrom and wayland HQ's are UK based so restricting where they can and cannot sell does apply. Also UK members should flood OFT with complaints about GW pricing as well.

I understand that, but without knowing the particulars of the import policies and taxes that are being circumvented, it's ignorant of us both to make further comment.

One could argue that, by selling the product to Southern Hemisphere consumers at the UK prices, that Maelstrom and Wayland are the offenders, as GW is being adversely affected due to the difference in pricing. Can Aussies or other internationals buy product from GWs UK website for those prices? I doubt it.

We can agree that the solution is for the Australian product prices to be more in line with their base, but the AUD is at historical highs right now. What happens when/if the AUD falls back to more historically in-line rates? There are so many economic issues here at play that everyone seems to forget.

So lets say GW adjusts the prices to mirror the present state of the AUD. They reduce prices. The peasants rejoice. Then when/if the AUD plunges to it's historically normal value, GW will be forced to raise the prices again, and there will be another uproar.

The only "perfect" solution is for the product to have a fluctuating cost, and that isn't going to happen. It's a logistical impossiblity that doesn't occur with any product.

[lattd]

I would be happy with a fall in price globally, i have not brought direct from GW in years i only buy from maelstrom when they have sales on. If maelstrom and wayland can sell at below GW prices with free shipping, then GW are making a killer profit on their plastic crack, £6 million for a niche luxury company to make during a recession you know they are sitting comfy on those prices.

[wittdooley]

I would be happy with a fall in price globally, i have not brought direct from GW in years i only buy from maelstrom when they have sales on. If maelstrom and wayland can sell at below GW prices with free shipping, then GW are making a killer profit on their plastic crack, £6 million for a niche luxury company to make during a recession you know they are sitting comfy on those prices.

GW sells to independent retailers at around 45% off MSRP. They're still making money, regardless of what an independent retailer sells it at. Once the independent retailer has paid for it, GW has the cash. Anything sold direct from GW is 100% profit (beyond production costs of course). The retailer is under no obligation to have any discount. Retailers like Wayland, Maelstrom, Miniaturemarket, etc., can afford to discount because the lower overhead required by maintaining an online store. No rent. No electric bill. (Likely) less employees to pay. It's the very premise Amazon.com is built upon.

Wayland and Maelstrom have decided that the 10-15% profit they make on GW product (figuring another 10-15% cost of the free shipping) is enough. And that's fine. The issue is that they're charging the UK prices for a product in which GW and Australian retails charge a different cost based on the AUD.

[lattd]

Retailers like Wayland, Maelstrom, Miniaturemarket, etc., can afford to discount because the lower overhead required by maintaining an online store. No rent. No electric bill. (Likely) less employees to pay. It's the very premise Amazon.com is built upon.
.

GW requires stores who sell their products to have a brick and mortar store, maelstrom's HQ is around the corner from GW's in Nottingham, so is mantic games HQ as well.

[Gotthammer]

Gotthammer-- I really appreciate your positioning, but it boils down to this: Australia's state of affairs isn't GWs problem. If cost of living is increasing as you indicate in your post, why should the price of commodities go down? That doesn't make sense. Hell, in the US, based on the expense of living, the cost of a Big Mac at McDonald's varies greatly.

True, but Privateer Press and Battlefront have taken action - PP is priced about 10-20% over parity with the US dollar, and Flames of War minis have had two price reductions in the last year or so (I dont' follow the game to know how much).
GW doesn't have to, but it's making them look really bad by comparrison.



If people continue to order online in the southern hemisphere, won't that as adversly affect the business of the local shop as well?


I'm actually against buying from overseas for that reason, and have argued against it. However I'm against the policy that causes people to buy from overseas, so in a way am aligned with the pro-overseas buying people.
When a tactical squad is a cup of coffee away from being double the Uk price, I can't really blame people for trying to save money - I just wish they didn't have to! Even if prices dropped by 20%, it'd be a huge difference as it'd get a lot of kits down to 'impulse buy' levels.

Many is the time I've considered a model from another army just to paint up or for a conversion, but not gone with it because it was just that little too much to justify. It'd also generate a huge amount of goodwill.



I agree that the Aussie prices are out-of-line with the rest of their product based on the value of the dollar, but GW is under no obligation to make their product cheaper as a base line.

No obligation, I agree, but when a Warmachine starter box is $50, and the 40k one is $150 it's something GW should, as a sensible business practice, really look at adressing.



Can Aussies or other internationals buy product from GWs UK website for those prices?

Just as an experiment I logged in on the UK site and put a tac squad in my cart. They wanted twenty quid for shipping. Mind you they also wanted £18.33 for shipping a single pot of paint, so I think they've thought of that one already...
For the record I've had a dozen minis shiped small packet signature express from the UK for £8.

[wittdooley]

First, really appreciate the thoughtful response. This is the kind of dialogue that is important to have on these forums, IMO.


True, but Privateer Press and Battlefront have taken action - PP is priced about 10-20% over parity with the US dollar, and Flames of War minis have had two price reductions in the last year or so (I dont' follow the game to know how much).
GW doesn't have to, but it's making them look really bad by comparrison.

I have to think the public vs. private nature of these companies makes a difference. I don't know for certain, but it's possible that, due to their size (significantly smaller) there is flexibility with their pricing.




No obligation, I agree, but when a Warmachine starter box is $50, and the 40k one is $150 it's something GW should, as a sensible business practice, really look at adressing.

I actually had heavy participation in a thread about this very subject. The problem lies in the difference in the size of the game; its a trickier proposition to build a "play out of the box" starter for 40k than it is for Privateer's games. The GW starter boxes would also have a much greater impact on other GW product sales than it does for Privateer.



Just as an experiment I logged in on the UK site and put a tac squad in my cart. They wanted twenty quid for shipping. Mind you they also wanted £18.33 for shipping a single pot of paint, so I think they've thought of that one already...
For the record I've had a dozen minis shiped small packet signature express from the UK for £8.

This is intersting to me: do you suppose as many international customers would order from Wayland/Maelstrom/etc if they didn't offer free shipping?

[DadExtraordinaire]

I'll disagree a bit here. For the amount of book you get in the rulebooks, the price point is fairly standard for publishing. The biggest difference is that Amazon is going to give you their discount on the book, as opposed to selling it at MSRP.

You're still paying a bit more, but their pricing isn't that far off if you conside the rulebook for what it is: either an Art Book or a Text Book:

Some examples:
Art Books
Jay-Z Decoded (http://www.amazon.com/Decoded-Jay-Z/dp/1400068924/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305646003&sr=8-1)

Marvel Art of Marko Djurdjevic (http://www.amazon.com/Marvel-Art-Marko-Djurdjevic/dp/0785139621/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1305646183&sr=1-1)

Text Books
Phtography Textbook (http://www.amazon.com/Photography-10th-Barbara-London/dp/0205711499/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1305646253&sr=1-4)

Public Speaking textbook (http://www.amazon.com/Public-Speaking-Strategies-Success-5th/dp/0205504051/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1305646302&sr=1-4)

The page numbers for each aren't exactly at the 320 pages of the BRB, but they're close enough to make a valid comparison. Just as much work goes into the Warhammer Rulebook as any of these books, so the pricing isn't that off for me.
Sorry Wittdooley maybe I wasn't clear in what I wrote. I wasn't talking about the pricing of the GW BRB I was talking /writing about the pricing of historical rules such as Black Powder and others like Republic to Empire and FoW all of which IMHO not worth the £30 price tags, that clearly followed GW's pricing (they thought if GW can milk the fat cow so can we...).

Back in the days when WRG had the largest following in historical gaming the rules did not cost more than a half decent book. Given today you can get colour photographs and what not, the pricing is still vastly cheaper to print and publish, with the added bonus of automatically having a global shop window (internet). I disagree that rules book should be in the order of $65+ - they do not have to be that price because of the costs have considerably dropped (China, SE Asia, ex eastern bloc euro). We (me, you and everyone) have made the mistake though of buying the books at these highly inflated prices.

You can get incredibly detailed and informative books for the same MSRP one example that will blow you away for the price of £30 / $50 to $65 - Passchendaele by Peter Barton. This is not only a piece of historical art (in terms of photography, scale drawings, paintings, maps, etc) but it is also a factual book worthy of any histrocial thesis. Buy it you will not make a better purchase, ever.

Ok another is Frederick the Great's Army by Christopher Duffy.

Irrespective of the price on Amazon the publisher and belatedly the writer will get the monies.

Now, don't get me wrong I like what GW prints particularly art work and fluff (except some rather annoying mistakes in GK latest 'dex) I love The Collected Images of the Horus Heresy, the thin The Inquisition book, and I bought and still read today the GW game of the Inquisition (superb book, rules and fuff), and I do keep justifying to myself that the 'dex are worth it just about.....

[DadExtraordinaire]

So don't play then. Why the big internet whinge? Gw is a company, they can charge whatever they like. If people think it is too much, they won't buy it and GW will either go out of business or lower prices, just like everyone other company. And they are well within their rights to stop 3rd party retailers from undercutting their profit margin. I could undertsand if this was food, or petrol or electricity that was being massively jacked up in price, but seriously, it's little plastic men. Either pay what they ask or don't, but stop wasting their time and yours by spamming them with emails.
As a paying customer (big assumption) Arch_Bishop is allowed to complain to GW whether you like it or not, and he is allowed to express his views freely and without bullying on this forum.

You are correct about what GW can and cannot do all of course within logical reason and legislation.

However, sending any company an email stating your not happy is NOT a waste of time, trust me, as the consumers in the UK have won a massive victory of the banking system for redress on mis-sold PPI, and that came about through unhappy customers sending emails and letters to banking corporations considerably larger than GW will EVER be.

[Wildeybeast]

I have a question. Does anyone know where the stuff that is sold in places like Australia is manufactured? Because I've seen several people complain that GW is charging double the value over there as it does to say EU customers. If it is manufactured over there, then that complaint has some weight to it. If, as I suspect, the stuff is manufactured over here in the UK (due to a smaller customer base Down Under) and then shipped out (as is the case with the rest of the EU) that price differential starts to look a lot more reasonable when you include export and import taxes, not to mention substantial shipping costs. Please correct me if I am wrong on this, but I doubt GW can justify the cost of manufacturing facilities in a country with a population a third of that in the UK when they can't in a country such as Germany.

Dead extraodinaire are you seriously comparing a price increase on little plastic men to the systematic, illegal and deliberate misleading of customers and misrepresentation of a financial service? That was because the banks broke the law and got tkaen to court over it, not because a bunch of people sent them some angry but polite emails. GW has not only done nothing illegal, it has done nothing wrong. Lets say you want to buy my car. I say the price is £5000, even though you and I both know that its probably only worth £2000 on the open market. So you have a choice. Pay me the £5000 I want and get a car or don't and go get one from soemwhere else. Simplez. I have done nothing wrong or unfair, I haven't forced you to buy it. I'm not profiteering during wartime, I'm just conducting my business as I see fit. Same with GW. And it is for this reason that GW will politely respond to, but actually ignore, your emails. Do you honestly think they haven't considere negative customer reaction in making this decision. They have a captive who need thier plastic crack and always will, so they can charge whatver the hell they want, safe in the knoweldge that people will buy it. "Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it".

Oh and I resent the accusation of bullying. I did not insult or offend Arch Bishop (at least not intentionally) I simply disagreed with him and expressed my frustration that people seem to think that GW owes them a favour and should never increase its prices, depsite the increasing costs of raw materials, manufacture, taxes and distrubtion. Oh, and I should point out the significant increase in the quality and standards of GW products over the last 6-12 months, something which has been totally overlooked in this debate on pricing.

[DadExtraordinaire]

I can totally understand your viewpoint, but for me right now, this is about keeping in the hobby AT ALL.

We are getting charged ludicrous prices here, and without Wayland, Maelstrom, and others, I can't afford to play anymore.

I agree that the price hikes are ridiculous, but that is another issue.

Maybe if we get somewhere with this, the next step is pushing that issue?

For me, personally, I want to address the impending doom about to befall Australia and other countries. If prices here stay the same, and EU retailers can't send stock here, I can't play at all.

GAME OVER.
See my reply to WildeyBeast - Consumers do have power (see examples in the US, UK) - send GW an email stating you are not happy. No company worth it's salt will ignore unhappy customers. That doesn't mean they will make a u-turn like in Coke Cola and the UK banks and stop their current business decision, but it may make them think twice in the future, they may engage the consumer through product testing and business litmus tests.

Remember GW is a business it has shareholders (the product of capitalisim) and they are as important as customers (or even more so if you need extra cash guess where they go first after flagging sales..), and they cannot be ignored just like customers (well they could ignore customers but would not always be wise to do so, however, they will never ignore shareholderss they could face a shareholder revolt).

It may well be that GW had to make a very difficult decision (losing profit) on the trade situation with southern hemisphere knowing it may cause them issues with customer satisfaction. There is no harm in sending a nicely worded email / letter explaining your concerns, GW are NOT naive.

As for the pricing well that is a different situation altogether and will require mass simultaneous action.....a bit like a flash mob but on a global scale.... ;)

[Xas]

I hope you guys good luck in your quest for cheaper plastics.

Still there is something I haven't come to understand yet! How can it be that the price of buying new modells can realistically make it impossible for someone to stay in the hobby and continue useing their allready accquired gear?

wargaming is not a hobby that in any serious way consumes they equippment you use or requires any money to actually use said equipmment (compare it to skiing or skuba where you usually have to travel big distances, pay for a hotel and access to the locations). Even if a single space marine suddenly costed 2000$ nothing would stop you from useing your army (ies) to play with.

If you really love the hobby and it is as important to you as you say why not keep the monthly investment the same and accept that your army will just grow slower? Ya know 100$ is as well spent on "surviving" regardless if you get one rhino or a battleforce. If you are in a situation where you really cannot AFFORD to pay GW's prices anymore then it prolly is better for you if they increase their prices. Why? Because then you will not be tempted with cheaper stuff when in reality you need all your money for food, housing and general expenses...

[Wildeybeast]

I hope you guys good luck in your quest for cheaper plastics.

Still there is something I haven't come to understand yet! How can it be that the price of buying new modells can realistically make it impossible for someone to stay in the hobby and continue useing their allready accquired gear?

wargaming is not a hobby that in any serious way consumes they equippment you use or requires any money to actually use said equipmment (compare it to skiing or skuba where you usually have to travel big distances, pay for a hotel and access to the locations). Even if a single space marine suddenly costed 2000$ nothing would stop you from useing your army (ies) to play with.

If you really love the hobby and it is as important to you as you say why not keep the monthly investment the same and accept that your army will just grow slower? Ya know 100$ is as well spent on "surviving" regardless if you get one rhino or a battleforce. If you are in a situation where you really cannot AFFORD to pay GW's prices anymore then it prolly is better for you if they increase their prices. Why? Because then you will not be tempted with cheaper stuff when in reality you need all your money for food, housing and general expenses...

Well said that man (or woman). It's nice to know there are other voices of reason shouting in the face of the gale of over-reaction.

[Gir]

Well said that man (or woman). It's nice to know there are other voices of reason shouting in the face of the gale of over-reaction.

Okay, this really pisses me off. Why is it always the UK people who seem to say "Stop over-reacting" and "If you can't afford it, don't play it!". It seems like you people just don't grasp how expensive this stuff is in Aus.

[Wildeybeast]

Okay, this really pisses me off. Why is it always the UK people who seem to say "Stop over-reacting" and "If you can't afford it, don't play it!". It seems like you people just don't grasp how expensive this stuff is in Aus.

You're quite right, we probably don't. I don't live in Australia so I have no idea what the cost of living is over there, or what average wages are like. However, that doesn't affect my point of 'if you can't afford it don't buy it'. That applies to everyone in the world. No doubt if/when I start a family I won't be able to afford much new stuff and so won't buy it. I'm sure there are plenty of people around the world who can't justify spending £20 on a box of plastic, so they don't, why are people in Australia, Borneo or Timbuktu a speical case?

[Gir]

You're quite right, we probably don't. I don't live in Australia so I have no idea what the cost of living is over there, or what average wages are like. However, that doesn't affect my point of 'if you can't afford it don't buy it'. That applies to everyone in the world. No doubt if/when I start a family I won't be able to afford much new stuff and so won't buy it. I'm sure there are plenty of people around the world who can't justify spending £20 on a box of plastic, so they don't, why are people in Australia, Borneo or Timbuktu a speical case?

My only problem is the price difference, as I'm sure it is with most people in Aus. If UK paid the same price we did, or vice-versa, there would be no issue.

[Arch_Bishop]

Firstly, I'm glad this thread generated so much debate.

But, as I assumed would happen, we got the same old arguments, and the same old viewpoints.

I reply to those they say 'suck it up', 'they haven't broken the law', etc. I know. I am well aware that GW has not broken a law. I know they can legally do this. That is not my point at all. My point is that by doing this, they are effectively destroying a large and significant part of a lot of people's lives.

I know I don't need to eat models, I'm not going to die, but hell, I really enjoy this hobby, we all do, so why not fight for it? I don't subscribe to this "bend over and take it" mentality. If your government made a ruling which you didn't agree with, totally legally, would you say, "don't complain, they haven't broken the law. If you don't like it, live somewhere else!". Well, not me, pal.

I'm not just whining because I don't have enough money. I have money. I just can't justify paying double what you guys pay overseas; end of story. For example, I cannot start a Tyranid army on Australian prices (my next planned army). I cannot convince a friend to fork out $500 just to start playing. Look, if the prices were at least relatively similar, I would suck it up, and just buy a few less squads, etc. But this is almost DOUBLE what you pay overseas. Let that sink in. Would you pay that to play?

It seems that if you complain about something, people rush to defend GW saying, "if you don't like it, don't play, no one's forcing you'. Fair enough. No one is making me play Warhammer. But shouldn't I let GW know why I will no longer be buying their products? In business, I like to know why a customer is not returning to me, as I take a pride in the product and work I provide, so if anything, I am merely giving constructive feedback. It is the least I can do for a company that has been so dear to my heart for so long.

As an example of this, I have played World of Warcraft. When you have any dealings with Blizzard, they ask for feedback. If you cancel your account, they ask for feedback about why you aren't playing anymore. They value that feedback, as it helps them improve their product, and their profits.

In the end, these are just first world problems. No, I'm not starving, I have a roof over my head, etc. But, this is an important part of my life, and if I'm going to lose it, I'm going to let the person (or entity) responsible know. That is all.

Someone mentioned that this shouldn't spell the end of the hobby for me. I agree, I will still play with the armies I have, and I will proxy the hell out of them. I will not buy new models, and I will most likely take up a new game (Warmachine, Malifaux, or Infinity).

This is not about a small price rise. This is about paying a MUCH more.

Example: Arakchnarok Spider: AUD $96
Arakchnarok Spider: GBP 36 pounds
After exchange: $55 AUD

Can you really tell me that I should pay that much more? Even taking into consideration shipping, tax, etc, there is no way to justify this difference in price. Also, this doesn't even include the discount that online retailers were providing (that same kit is 28.80 GBP from Wayland, $43.99 AUD).

I'm all for capitalism, and a global economy, but this is a move against that.

Anyway, I've said my bit.

Send them an email.

[Blarg D Impaler]

Hi everyone. I normally don't read through the BoLS but I happened upon this thread and I just activated an account because I think a point needs to be brought up:

Inherent within this discussion is the underlying assumption that the Australian gamers must still play WH40K, WHFB, or whatever GW game they play after this price increase.

I encourage our Australian friends to really re-evaluate their relationship with GW products and figure out where they are going to go from here in light of unreasonably high prices. Are you going to keep buying and playing GW games, or are you going to quit buying and playing the GW games? Better yet, think of it this way: Do you need to keep buying and playing GW games, or are you willing to give up GW games for a better alternative?

What are the better alternatives? That depends on you. You could quit wargaming and do something else for fun, like sports, watching TV, or work around the house. Aww, who is kidding who? You don't want to give up wargaming, do you?

Well, you can try to fight GW on this. Good luck.

My suggestion is to not fight it. Why? Because in the end GW will not have heard, or cared about, your lettters and petitions. And you will have gotten yourself worked up and angry for no return on your effort. This is not the first stupid move that GW has done in their history, nor will it be their last.

Ask all of the WH40K 2nd edition players what they thought of 3rd edition. Yeah, some players stayed with the game, and a lot came in later, but a lot of them left when they saw the new rules were not a tweeking of the pretty good old 2nd ed. rules, but a complete revamp. And not a good one at that.

How about Epic?!? Epic used to be GW's third game of the big three games. It was a fantastic game! A lot of the vehicles that are common in WH40K now were in Epic for a couple of years before they showed up in WH40K. It was Nirvana for me and my friends. Then they went to a new edition of the rules, Epic40K, that completely wrecked the fan base. Players were selling off their figures for pennys on the dollar. The fan base for the game had so deserted the game that GW never went through the re-release of figures for all of the races. And they never admitted they screwed up - it was the player's fault for not better understanding the game! The newer Epic Armageddon is a good rules set, but there is still little support for it from GW or a large fan base. I was really angry with GW for ruining what had been a fantastic experience for me. Livid! Spitting mad! Most of that anger is gone now, but not all of it.

You know what helped me a lot? I moved on. I put GW behind me.

I was looking for alternate models to use as titans in Epic when I started to see warjacks from Warmachine. I approached a local that I knew had a lot of Warmachine sitting around and asked him if he would be willing to trade me for a couple of his warjacks. He said no, he wanted to trade for a big pile of WH40K figs. Since I had all of my old 2nd edition figs, which he was fine with, I traded my WH40K Space Marines for Warmachine. I then did the same thing with his friend - my Eldar for his lot of Warmachine figures. It was the best thing I ever did in wargaming.

Warmachine and Hordes are fantastic games. They have been nothing but a joy for me to play and I have been happy ever since getting into Warmachine. Even better, the makers of Warmachine and Hordes, Privateer Press (PP), have done almost everything right in my opinion. (A couple of small mistakes here or there, nothing to quit the game over.) Whenever there was a change that was announced Privateer Press has not just done the right thing, they have exceeded my expectations.

And if Warmachine or Hordes is not for you, then look at other games. There are tons of them out there. The glossy production values of the books might not be quite as good as GW (I personally think the PP books are better) and the miniatures may not be what you are used to seeing, but you will be surprised at how much better the rules are than the GW games.

The important thing is to move on. It's OK, you'll be much better, soon. Sell your GW stuff to someone to get some of your money back, and just turn around and walk away. Explore the other games that are out there and get the happiness back that GW took from you with their prices increases. And don't worry, you won't be alone.

Thanks for reading this my friends in Australia, I hope that you guys see the light of leaving GW.

[Bung]

Why shouldnt an EU based company charge more for their products outside europe?

Espacially companies from US do the same here.
Why do i have to pay twice the price of some jeans here in Germany which are produced in the US?
Why does an apple computer cost me 400 Euro more than compared tu US?
Some goes for a Sony Play Station which was around twice the price in the US as they have been introduced?

Sry, i dont feel any charity for anyone affected, cause such things happen more to EU than to other countries.

[Arch_Bishop]

On a related note, Kirby, over at 3++ is the New Black, has started a Facebook group for all you Australians and New Zealanders who want to get behind this.

http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/2011/05/dice-dice-bags-facebook-group-and-games.html

He has also started an email campaign, so I will leave it up to him.

Go over and show your support!

[Denzark]

This is a luxury item. When we got a mortgage, the wife put me on a ban from going to lapdance clubs. I have in the main adhered to this direction.

The point of interest here is some of the same old arguments coming out. You see people type:

"Land Raiders are now $100. If they were $50 I would buy 3!" Hang on, that = $150! So surely you can afford 1 at $100 if you have $150 to spend on wargames!

Also the PP fanboys. They're tedious! Is it cheaper or isn't it? Look we all know you would prefer to be in the 90% rather than the 10% - makes it easier to get a game, to get your FLGS to stock it etc. But don't wave PP as the panacea to all GW ills because its tosh. I have played WM several times and after game 2 worked out it is all about kill the warcaster. No tactical diversity. Fun but not quite so good.

GW wins by being better on average across fluff and models and depth of range. This is what you are buying into. Most people ebay or go to internet companies. Well, has GW stopped ebay? No. You pay a little extra for postage but less for 2nd hand - probably less for new unboxed in a lot of cases. Also bear in mind that, while you complain that the post costs means you are paying more, even though the minis cost the same, somebody pays shipping! Maybe Maelstrom etc were taking a loss to subsidise your shipping, now its down to you!

I have encountered loads of people emmigrating to OZ/NZ saying how crap the UK is. Now our antipodean colleagues are telling us the cost of living is up - surely not, the grass isn't greener down there? I go to hell.

Luxury import items cost more than those from in country. I sympathise I really do but this ain't the end of the world. Ebay and use what you have.

I care not about new users. The thing about new users is that, if all the 'veterans' who moan about GW actually did leave, it would be down to new users. And if they are being priced out of the market, GW will have no customers and will have to put prices down! Winner!

Maybe a mass exodus in Oz will get universal prices down!! Take one for the team guys.

Simple equation. GW = wrong their business plan will eventually lead to losses requiring price cuts or death of company. GW = right they will carry on regardless so, someone must be affording this.

[Col.Gravis]

As much as I love 40k, to be honest GW are taking the piss somewhat. I'm increasingly venturing into other companies products which are cheaper but just as good quality these days, I've spent maybe £10 on GW product this year, but at least £100 on other companies with plans for more spend because they represent better value for money and equal quality.

[Denzark]

Don't get me wrong, I do feel GW are taking the piss but this is neither new nor, for me, the last straw.

As I have sufficient to keep me playing and painting without buying a single new item for probably 40000 years.

This year i have spent around £10 on paint in GW, and around £100 off ebay for GW product second hand.

There is a lesson coming for GW but I don't think they'll be overturned just yet.

[Col.Gravis]

Don't get me wrong, I do feel GW are taking the piss but this is neither new nor, for me, the last straw.

Your right its not a new trend, and everyone has their own personal limit whatever the reasons for it. Mine is starting to be breached, and clearly many of our fellow gamers in the south hemisphere have just been rocketed past theirs, though equally many are still quite happy to pay for GW product.

This is'nt aimed at your Denzark, but it gets my goat when some people here seem to think that others dont have the right to complain about GW and its prices. They have every right, just as much right as GW have to raise them infact. If someone does'nt like to see GW critisied they either need to ignore it or man up and take it on the chin that their opinion is not the only valid one.

[Arch_Bishop]

Your right its not a new trend, and everyone has their own personal limit whatever the reasons for it. Mine is starting to be breached, and clearly many of our fellow gamers in the south hemisphere have just been rocketed past theirs, though equally many are still quite happy to pay for GW product.

This is'nt aimed at your Denzark, but it gets my goat when some people here seem to think that others dont have the right to complain about GW and its prices. They have every right, just as much right as GW have to raise them infact. If someone does'nt like to see GW critisied they either need to ignore it or man up and take it on the chin that their opinion is not the only valid one.

Word.

I also find it rather amusing that someone can say that you don't have a right to complain, whilst complaining about the fact that you are complaining.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

I don't actually have a problem with GW raising prices, it's a business after all. What i DO have a problem with is that if your going to charge a price for a box of miniatures, then taking into account your countries exchange rate it should be the same price.
Sounds simple to me.

I don't get how we in Aus are paying nearly twice the cost than everyone else. Sure i can understand shipping, but they just don't ship one box of miniatures at a time, they ship a whole container case full. Fact, to hire a container to fit a car only costs around $3,000 Aus from Malta.
Now how much product would you fit in a shipping container?? Lets take that container of say LR's. How much do you think that was worth?? I'm pretty sure they make there money there..

What we are argueing down here is WHY we have to pay twice as much, will that mean the death of GW stores in Australia now, what happens to say local Gaming stores, are they allowed to stock GW products anymore??
Can a local hobby store stock them too?
Is it worth me still buying from direct sales from the UK, is it cheaper and can i still do that also or do i have to go to my local GW store or direct sales AUS and pay double the cost of other countries.
Trust me tomorrow during the day Sydney are going to get a phone call from me, and i'm going to want answers..

[Freefall945]

We're coming across this interesting notion where all complaints are taken as suggestions of crimes, and all apologetics are taken as defense of said criminals.

Here is a friendly reminder that this isn't about illegal, or about players demanding, in some legal action, that they have a right to products the same price as elsewhere. It's about displeasure with corporate performance.

As an Australian, I've endured GW prices as they ascend like some grim, fiscal rocket skyward, myself and my comrades clinging to the skull-encrusted dorsal protrusion. Ebay has become my main supplier at this point, though I make periodic purchases from GW directly when I just need to vomit up a hundred and fifty dolleridoos for three war walkers the night before the tourney.

Will this additional curtailing of my ability to purchase less mind-wrackingly priced plastic crack? Probably. I also recommend getting a friend you can trust in the northern hemisphere, purchasing goods and having them shipped to your third party - and then having your chum mail them to you at postage cost. In return, you can, like, send them some of our fabulous Australian chocolate. Or record their voice-mail greeting in your Aussie drawl. Really, it's a matter of being creative.

The boot's being put in, my fellow Australians, but if our choices are bear the pain, or abandon the hobby... I'm sticking with it. My pointy eared refugees are counting on me. I'm committed to the story on some etheric level now. It MATTERS to me that the 41st millennium we have come to love - through our lens of revulsion and horror - continues, progresses, and that I represent a tiny portion of its fictional grandeur through the elan my tiny painted army displays, and I enjoy vicariously.

I'm sure most won't feel the same way. Leave if you must. But whatever happens, the hobbyverse is a big place, and you will not be missed...

[Denzark]

Your right its not a new trend, and everyone has their own personal limit whatever the reasons for it. Mine is starting to be breached, and clearly many of our fellow gamers in the south hemisphere have just been rocketed past theirs, though equally many are still quite happy to pay for GW product.

This is'nt aimed at your Denzark, but it gets my goat when some people here seem to think that others dont have the right to complain about GW and its prices. They have every right, just as much right as GW have to raise them infact. If someone does'nt like to see GW critisied they either need to ignore it or man up and take it on the chin that their opinion is not the only valid one.

Fair one. I have trouble sometimes wondering why this is such an emotive subject for some on both side of the fence. Just in case I have made myself misunderstood, of course I support people's right to complain about GW, and also the right of people who say deal with it - its a luxury item.

GW are typically greedy business types now, but they ain't the anti christ and if PP got as big as GW they would become exactly the same.

[lobster-overlord]

Here's a question from someone who is not affected by the Southern Hemisphere thing...

Have you all in AU thought about buying from the US and not UK, now that GW has put these new rules into place? The prices are still much cheaper than the AU price. What, if any, are the downsides of buying from a US based seller?

[Col.Gravis]

I have trouble sometimes wondering why this is such an emotive subject for some on both side of the fence.

I think that ones fairly easy to cover really, both sides really enjoy the product and worlds created by GW, but one side no longer feels that it represents value for money, regardless of if they can actually afford it, the other does not share this view.

And of course on both sides are the die-hard fan boyz of both GW and their competition, to whom GW can either do no wrong or no right. But they can be ignored from reasonable discussion, that is kinda like arguing with a drunk or druggy who is dosed up on their favourite high.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

And of course on both sides are the die-hard fan boyz of both GW and their competition, to whom GW can either do no wrong or no right. But they can be ignored from reasonable discussion, that is kinda like arguing with a drunk or druggy who is dosed up on their favourite high.

This.

[Skragger]

GW requires stores who sell their products to have a brick and mortar store, maelstrom's HQ is around the corner from GW's in Nottingham, so is mantic games HQ as well.

This is very correct. In order for someone to apply as a stockist and get the 45% off discount/free shipping/etc the rules are as follows:

Must be a brick and mortar store in a commerically zoned area
Location must be opened a minimum of 20 hours/week
Must have valid business license
Completed and approved Trade Account Application and Reseller Certificate in your province/state

*this is taken direct from correspondance with my GW rep


(And Freefall.. I enjoy the cut of your jib! I havn't found myself smiling at a post like that in a while now!)

[Daemonette666]

Someone mentioned on the RSS chat section that we can still order from the U.S. The postage from America to Australia is as much as the product itself sometimes. Add in the cost of insurance for larger orders i.e. for when a group of friends get together to make one really huge order to decrease the overall postage cost, and you have a product that cost about the same price as in a GW shop.

Sometimes I prefer buying and playing games in a local gaming shop, rather than a GW only shop. You are free to talk about any subject, be it DR.Who, Star gate, etc without being told to keep the subject to GW official sponsored games only. You also get exposed to other gaming Genre'. I had a game of Warhammer invasion board game today, painted a few Battletech Omni-mechs and and had a game of 40K - my Chaos Marines against a Necron army 1750 pints.

I also got to see some new games this week including playing a game of Talisman. I also watched a couple Flames of War battles, played a few battles with my Battletech miniatures and had 2 more games of 40K, with plans next week to face off against an old Russ Void Puppy opponent of mine, and maybe even against a local Grey Knight army.

Next thing you know, GW with be all out to make it illegal to put pictures of model conversions using parts from other companies and gaming systems on the internet. Even though you might mention it has parts from other models in order to convert it.

I may have to get out of 40K again, and just play Battletech, Warmachine and FOW.

Oh, the ancients, gunpowder and WW I/WW II games are a large part of the gaming market in Australia. I may have to convert over to the tried and tested gaming systems of old. Thanks Wildeybeast, I guess I am not buying GW products anymore. There should be other companies that make product that can be used to count as the relevant chaos marine, etc, with a small conversion.

[Wildeybeast]

My only problem is the price difference, as I'm sure it is with most people in Aus. If UK paid the same price we did, or vice-versa, there would be no issue.

Where do the models sold down under come from? Are they manfactured out there? Or are they, as I suspect, manufactured in the UK and then shipped out there? If so then it is perfectly reasonable that Ozzie customers pay more as GW will have to pay export tax to get them out of the EU, substantial shipping costs to fly/ship them halfway across the world and then import tax to get them into Oz. Which probably explains why I don't pay the same as you when the models are made a half hour drive away from me.

[Gotthammer]

First, really appreciate the thoughtful response. This is the kind of dialogue that is important to have on these forums, IMO.

Thanks, I don't think the crazy rhetoric does anyone any favours.



I have to think the public vs. private nature of these companies makes a difference. I don't know for certain, but it's possible that, due to their size (significantly smaller) there is flexibility with their pricing.

Yes, while it certainly would be harder for GW to change their pricing, being a (comparatively) huge multi-national, the exchange rate they're working on (assuming a direct exchange, not taking into account tarrifs etc) is quite literally from last century.
Aside from a spike in October 2008 at the height of the GFC, the Pound has been declining against the dollar at a steady rate since 2007. This has meant an average rate of around $2.30 to the pound, which is about what we're paying now. But it hasn't been above that since December 08, I think two and a half years is enough time to do at least some adjustment.

I'm not even advocating parity here - a 20% drop in prices would take a lot of pressure off and restore some sense of fairness to it.



I actually had heavy participation in a thread about this very subject. The problem lies in the difference in the size of the game; its a trickier proposition to build a "play out of the box" starter for 40k than it is for Privateer's games. The GW starter boxes would also have a much greater impact on other GW product sales than it does for Privateer.

It is comparing apples and oranges a bit (or rockmellons and watermellons perhaps) and there are a lot more factors than are relevant to the discussion here. But from a purely financial standpoint, if someone with little to no miniature/gaming experience wants to start a game and the options are $50 or $150 one is immediately more attractive. As was discussed in Skragger's thread on the subject, balancing them with the current bigger game oriented ruleset is much harder too.

I will admit bias in this as I started mini painting when my brother and I were each given a set of Rafm AD&D minis (best pic I could find (http://www.frothersunite.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13803&sid=3752c696e5506d752af215993e9bd659)) and one of the nine-pot citadel paint sets. The boxes came with stats and background for each of the minis, some maps and part of the adventure (so you needed to buy all the boxes to get the whole thing!). Now, at the time I was around seven, so it was somewhat incomprehensible, but I could understand the groups, their story and the quest and being weird managed to figure out roughly how AD&D worked without loking at the rulebook...
I could also paint seven dudes and be proud of finishing them in a reasonable time (still got them too!).

With that in mind, when I look at the WM starter box I see something very similar - a starter into the hobby, not just the game - while Black Reach is more a starter into 40k than miniature painting, collecting and gaming (there's next to no background in the box!). It just seems so much to lay on a new player at once to me, but again, it's possibly just personal preference.
Now, I haven't seen inside the PP kits, and they probably don't have much in the way of background, but if the minis are cool enough when has that ever stopped anyone (I had around seventy or so Zoids before I knew of any official story)?




This is intersting to me: do you suppose as many international customers would order from Wayland/Maelstrom/etc if they didn't offer free shipping?

I doubt it, but it is hard to say. The one thing about local indie suppliers is they almost invariably have terrible webstores - hard to navigate, hard to tell what is and isn't in stock (and when it will be again) and odd selections of what you want. With that in mind the lazy (or nightworkers like me who can't really get to stores much) may still shop overseas to get what they want at once rather than piecemeal.
Maybe it's just been my bad luck, but the indie wargaming stores (as opposed to nerd stores that sell wargames) have all been rather dire places to deal with.

[Freefall945]

I had heard some time ago they were setting up a manufacturing facility in Australia, and there was much rejoicing. It was at that point that all of the arm flapping and wailing associated with the GFC began, and such a noble expansion became a laughably risky prospect. Better to clutch their gilt treasure to their chests and hiss angrilly at even the most well meaning passer by than scatter it around them in the hope of attracting friends, then starving for lack of wealth. I must imagine their products are freighted here.

I must also imagine the vessel they are freighted here in is a jet black barge with twisting spires jutting skyward from its spine, each emblazoned with the livery and embossed likeness of a different imperial saint who perished in some seaborn conflict. Upon its prow is a bust of the noble Dominica - it is her radiant likeness which parks the demon-fog which guards this cursed island and allows the precious cargo to be delivered without tampering by unnatural aggressors.

When it is docked, anchored by the few remaining magnetic calipers still functional and rope braided from lion hair where these are insufficient, a silver gangplank descends, its ribs and bolts rubbed into smooth lumps from innumerable feet. In the highest spire, a bell sounds twice, and then stops. At the third tone, much later, the ship will depart into the mists again.

From the plank now come teams of shuffling, hunched men, backs irreparably curved by their burdensome toil. Their skin is tattooed with slip-shod blessings and rites as though the author no long believed they really protected. Their gate is slow and unsteady, calloused feet pawing at the deck before them before each step. They are blind, it seems - but it is more sinister still. The scars around their hollow sockets cry of surgical intrusion - they are not just blind, but blinded for this holy task.

The work takes six hours to unload thirteen crates of aquila stamped cargo at their crippled, but blessed pace. The dock workers stand at a fearful distance, allowing the shambling seamen to take the thirteen crates of freshly minted golden dolleridoos in their place, before retracting slowly in their ghastly procession into the ship like a fat serpent withdrawing its tongue.

The bell tolls a third time. The ship is gone. The crates remain.

Blessed is the Emperor who provideth such things by his righteous conveyance. All glory and wealth to him.

[Gir]

Where do the models sold down under come from? Are they manfactured out there? Or are they, as I suspect, manufactured in the UK and then shipped out there? If so then it is perfectly reasonable that Ozzie customers pay more as GW will have to pay export tax to get them out of the EU, substantial shipping costs to fly/ship them halfway across the world and then import tax to get them into Oz. Which probably explains why I don't pay the same as you when the models are made a half hour drive away from me.

Not sure out EU export tax, but AU import tax is 10% (GST) + 0% tariff. Actual shipping costs a negligible (As stated earlier/another thread, a car is only $3k to ship). Hell, Maelstrom can not only afford to ship to Australia for free, but offers a 10% discount as well.

Your arguments seem logical, until you actually look at them in depth.