Citadel Fine Cast

[eldargal]

A list of kits coming out in resin on the 28th of May:

Starting from the 28th of May 120 products that were Games Workshop direct only items will be coming back on the shelves as resin or resin Hybrids. This new range “Citadel Fine Cast” range will be limited in number for the first few months, so we will be taking advance orders for them.

Here are the new recast products at the full RRP;

41-60 COMMANDER DANTE £10.50
53-60 LOGAN GRIMNAR £14.50
55-61 THE EMPERORS CHAMPION £9.50
48-63 SPACE MARINE CHAPLAIN WITH JUMP PACK £10.50
44-60 DARK ANGELS COMPANY MASTER £10.50
48-61 SM LIBRARIAN IN TERMINATOR ARMOUR £14.50
53-61 NJAL STORMCALLER £14.50
41-61 ASTORATH THE GRIM £12.50
43-60 ABADDON THE DESPOILER £14.50
43-61 HURON BLACKHEART £10.50
50-61 ORK WARBOSS WITH ATTACK SQUIG £14.50
50-63 ORK BIG MEK £14.50
50-65 ORK PAINBOY WITH GROT ORDERLY £10.50
46-61 ELDAR AUTARCH WITH POWER WEAPON £10.50
46-62 THE AVATAR OF KHAINE £22.50
46-63 HARLEQUIN DEATH JESTER £10.50
46-64 HARLEQUIN SHADOWSEER £10.50
47-61 COMMISSAR YARRICK £10.50
47-63 IMPERIAL GUARD LORD COMMISSAR £9.50
51-61 TYRANID ZOANTHROPE £15.50
51-63 TYRANID TYRANT GUARD £15.50
51-64 TYRANID HIVE GUARD £15.50
51-65 TYRANID BROODLORD £15.50
57-61 BROTHER CAPTAIN STERN £14.50
57-60 LORD KALDOR DRAIGO £14.50
57-62 CASTELLAN CROWE £10.50
57-63 INQUISITOR COTEAZ £10.50
45-60 DARK ELDAR ARCHON £9.50
45-64 LELITH HESPERAX £10.50
45-63 URIEN RAKARTH £10.50
45-61 DARK ELDAR SUCCUBUS £9.50
56-60 TAU ETHEREAL WITH HONOUR BLADE £9.50
83-62 CHAOS EXALTED HERO £9.50
83-63 CHAOS KHORNE EXALTED HERO £10.50
86-60 EMPIRE CAPTAIN WITH HAMMER & PISTOL £9.50
92-60 WOOD ELF HIGHBORN WITH GREAT WEAPON £9.50
84-60 DWARF LORD WITH HAMMER & SHIELD £9.50
84-61 DWARF RUNELORD WITH GREAT WEAPON £9.50
90-60 SKAVEN WARLORD £9.50
90-61 QUEEK HEADTAKER £10.50
90-62 DEATHMASTER SNIKCH £10.50
91-61 VAMPIRE LORD £9.50
89-60 GRIMGOR IRONHIDE £10.50
89-62 BLACK ORC BIG BOSS £10.50
87-60 CARADRYAN £10.50
85-61 DARK ELF ASSASSIN WITH TWO HAND WEAPONS £9.50
81-60 MALAGOR THE DARK OMEN £12.50
10-61 URUK-HAI WITH CROSSBOWS £14.00
10-62 URUK-HAI BERSERKERS £14.00
08-61 GOTHMOG (PELENNOR) £20.50
05-60 ELROND AND GIL-GALAD £15.00
10-60 SARUMAN AND GRIMA £15.00
02-60 GANDALF THE WHITE £20.50
04-60 ARAGORN (THE BLACK GATE) £20.50
04-62 THEODEN (HELM’S DEEP) £20.50
04-61 BOROMIR (ITHILIEN) £20.50
09-60 SULADAN THE SERPENT LORD £20.50
08-62 THE DARK MARSHAL (RINGWRAITH) £20.50
05-61 DAIN AND BALIN £15.00
97-60 SKULLTAKER £14.50
48-40 MARNEUS CALGAR AND HONOUR GUARD £36.00
48-41 SPACE MARINE TECHMARINE WITH SERVITORS £25.50
55-40 BLACK TEMPLARS SWORD BRETHREN SQUAD £25.50
48-42 SPACE MARINE STERNGUARD VETERAN SQUAD £25.50
48-43 SPACE MARINE VANGUARD VETERAN SQUAD £25.50
53-40 CANIS WOLFBORN £30.00
43-40 NURGLE DAEMON PRINCE £21.50
43-41 CHAOS SPACE MARINE RAPTORS £25.50
43-42 DEATH GUARD PLAGUE MARINES £25.50
50-43 BOSS ZAGSTRUK £14.50
50-40 GHAZGHKULL THRAKA £22.50
50-41 ORK TANKBUSTAS £25.50
50-42 ORK BIG MEK WITH SHOKK ATTACK GUN £23.00
46-41 ELDAR RANGERS £20.50
46-42 ELDAR DARK REAPERS £23.00
46-44 ELDAR STRIKING SCORPIONS £23.00
46-40 ELDAR FARSEER AND WARLOCKS £20.50
51-42 TYRANID LICTOR £15.50
51-40 TYRANID HIVE TYRANT £36.00
51-41 TYRANID PYROVORE £21.50
45-40 DARK ELDAR INCUBI £23.00
45-41 DARK ELDAR MANDRAKES £20.50
56-40 TAU SNIPER DRONE TEAM £23.00
83-42 ARCHAON THE EVERCHOSEN £30.00
83-43 CHAOS LORD ON DAEMONIC MOUNT £22.50
83-41 CHAOS DRAGON OGRE SHAGGOTH £36.00
86-41 LUDWIG SCHWARZHELM £22.50
86-40 KURT HELBORG £22.50
82-41 THE GREEN KNIGHT £22.50
82-40 KING LOUEN LEONCOEUR £30.00
92-42 WOOD ELVES TREE KIN £30.00
92-40 ORION KING IN THE WOODS £22.50
92-41 WOOD ELVES TREEMAN £36.00
84-40 THOREK IRONBROW £36.00
84-41 DWARF GYROCOPTER £23.00
84-42 DWARF BOLT THROWER £23.00
90-40 SKAVEN WARPLOCK JEZZAILS £30.00
91-40 VAMPIRE COUNTS VARGHULF £21.50
91-42 COUNT MANNFRED £22.50
91-41 VAMPIRE COUNTS BLOOD KNIGHTS £61.50
88-41 KROQ GAR £40.00
89-44 GOBLIN SPEAR CHUKKA £18.50
89-43 SAVAGE ORC GREAT SHAMAN ON WAR BOAR £15.50
89-41 ORC WARBOSS ON WYVERN £40.00
89-42 GOBLIN ROCK LOBBER £23.00
89-45 GORBAD IRONCLAW £30.00
89-40 AZHAG THE SLAUGHTERER £55.00
85-41 DARK ELVES REAPER BOLT THROWER £18.50
08-40 THE DARK LORD SAURON £25.50
08-42 GULAHVAR THE TERROR OF ARNOR £30.00
08-43 MORDOR TROLL CHIEFTAIN £25.50
02-40 THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING £37.00
97-42 FLAMERS OF TZEENTCH £15.50
From here (http://www.giftsforgeeks.org.uk/blog/?p=570&sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4dd1185cd45d3132%2C0).

Price increases ranging from 30p to a few pounds in general, or 2.5-25%. :rolleyes:

[Lancel]

Seems to be just as expected really. Material change, price hike to go with it. Who wants to be our guinea pig and buy some to see how the resin quality is? :D

[LostInTheDark]

Queue price increase outrage.

At least this outrage will take everones mind of the other 3 threads worth of price outrage.

I wonder what the prices will be in Australia? ;)

You have to feel GW have missed the chance to win back some goodwill.

Ah well, maybe next time...

[daboarder]

ANNND GW have probably just priced themselves out of Australia, I know that I was one of the last baring the "kiddies" who would by from the Sydney store, lets just say thats done now.

[isotope99]

Presumably this will take the place of the normal annual mid year price increase but there are some pretty hefty increases in there e.g. 26% for Tyranid Hive Guard and 28% for Urien Rakarth.

:mad:

[Skragger]

Mmm yaaay. Resin time. Well.. someone better get out there and buy something and tell us what happens. I wonder if the casts will be any good, or if we have to watch out for bubbling?

[lattd]

To some of those prices all i can say is ouch my wallet glad i only buy when maelstrom are doing deals or i can get the item off ebay. Guess the Dark eldar army will wait until i have room and money and nothing left to paint.

Incubi up £5 Mandrakes up £2 basically if its popular big increase if its not small increase. Im guessing the price increase is to cover the initial cost of the material and any changes to process or machinery required to make them compatible with product or it could be GW being GW.

[DrLove42]

I thought the idea of resin was to reduce the costs? If the cost is just going up why change?

Hope this new materials good

[Lexington]

Yikes. Price increases like woah. Still, good to have this matter put to bed. Think we'll see any apologies from the group that seemed to pop up in every thread on every forum (you know who you are) claiming definitively that there was no move to resin in the works, and snidely belittling anyone who suggested otherwise?

[eldargal]

Reduce GWs costs, which were significant, they were nearly making a loss on some metals, at least according to others in the casting business who couldn't believe how cheap GWs metals were. Of course there are significant costs involved in this switch even though resin is cheaper, they have to retool every mould, drilling new vents and perhaps some other modificatiosn depending on the resin injection equipment they use.


I thought the idea of resin was to reduce the costs? If the cost is just going up why change?

Hope this new materials good

[Lockark]

So I wounder now if bitzbarn and others will apologize for insulting the intelligence of anyone who gave the resin rumor credit.

:rolleyes:

Edit:

Yikes. Price increases like woah. Still, good to have this matter put to bed. Think we'll see any apologies from the group that seemed to pop up in every thread on every forum (you know who you are) claiming definitively that there was no move to resin in the works, and snidely belittling anyone who suggested otherwise?

So I'm not the only one who noticed that...

[isotope99]

Looking at this a bit closer, tyranid midzilla (warrior size) are getting shafted big time.

I can see lots more plastic conversions to deal with the cost increases using the warrior, ravener and genestealer kits. Off the top of my head:


Hive/tyrant guard: Tyranid warriors with genestealer heads (GS over the eyes) and converted weapons (e.g. deathspitters + flesh hooks for hive guard weapons)

Broodlord: Tyranid warrior with genestealer head and ravener hands.

Lictors: tyranid warriors with ravener hands, genestealer tentacle head + carnifex claws

Zoanthropes: Raveners with no/tiny arms and GS brain/no eyes conversion to heads

Not perfect, but fairly minimal conversion required ;).

[DrLove42]

Any info on why these kits in particular? Seems to be a complete switch on some lines (the DE one looks like a 100% switch to me) and not on others...

Like in eldar theres no wraithguard there, but some other, less frequent kits are.

Is it just to do with the age of moulds? Newer moulds are easier to convert (or where designed to) work in resin?

Cos in that case why is the Jokaero not making the change?

Is it popularity? Cos if its more popular getting an overhaul, i'm sure theres more popular kits than some that are being changed?

[Lockark]

Looking at this a bit closer, tyranid midzilla (warrior size) are getting shafted big time.

I can see lots more plastic conversions to deal with the cost increases using the warrior, ravener and genestealer kits. Off the top of my head:


Hive/tyrant guard: Tyranid warriors with genestealer heads (GS over the eyes) and converted weapons (e.g. deathspitters + flesh hooks for hive guard weapons)

Broodlord: Tyranid warrior with genestealer head and ravener hands.

Lictors: tyranid warriors with ravener hands, genestealer tentacle head + carnifex claws

Zoanthropes: Raveners with no/tiny arms and GS brain/no eyes conversion to heads

Not perfect, but fairly minimal conversion required ;).

Eh? For us Canadians if this pricing increase carries over, It's a $4-$7 increase CAD. It sucks, but the price for thows models REALLY sucked anyway and was "getting shafted" before anyway.

I don't think we're going to see a sudden shrug in conversions. Their will always be people who buy the models, thows who convert their own because they want there's to be unique, and thows who convert their own to save money. That's what is great about this hobby after all.
;)

[isotope99]

Eh? For us Canadians if this pricing increase carries over, It's a $4-$7 increase CAD. It sucks, but the price for thows models REALLY sucked anyway and was "getting shafted" before anyway.

I don't think we're going to see a sudden shrug in conversions. Their will always be people who buy the models, thows who convert their own because they want there's to be unique, and thows who convert their own to save money. That's what is great about this hobby after all.
;)

You're probably right.

On the other hand, I can't remember the last time I saw an official obliterator model on the table top when there are options for plastic terminator conversions.

[Deadlift]

Unless my eyes have deceived me there are no Necrons in that list at all, no wraiths no flayed ones no tombspiders etc etc. No ctan either. Not sure if that actually means anything but thought I would point it out.

[lattd]

Would this new material also include better detail on the model as well? if so ill consider paying a bit more for that benefit.

[fuzzbuket]

hmm i know we have heard rumors about GW changing materials however could 'fine-cast' be a finer casting e.g. super detailed versions of the sculpts, or something else?

also if it is hopefully it will be as durable as metal, sure that dread WILL break your windscreen but then again if it was resin itd be in a zillion bits.

[Cyberscape7]

:eek:Those prices!
Still I reckon they'll go down a fair bit once GW start making back some of the money they've lost on the transition. Best thing I can see there; plastic eldar rangers :) One of the only things I don't like about the current eldar is the metal troops... not any more;)

[DrLove42]

Well i don't know about resin being "more detailifiable (not a word but i'm gonna use it)" than other things.

You only need to look at the DE line, the GK Terminators and definently the Space Hulk stuff and you can see plastic is capable of being good if not better than metal, and approaching FW resin standards.

New detail would be nice, but won't happen, as the models would need to be redesigned really.

Of course it is possible they scanned the old models in in 3D, resculpted them digitally, remade large scale moulds, carved new detail, remade all the masters and then new moulds.

But I doubt it :P

[billytwix]

looks like that 2nd army is def out of the question for 5 more years. Where did the $20 box of 10 marines go? or the $80 battle force that came LOADED? or the $75 dollar starter box that came with the BFB?

I'm sure the new stuff will be awesome. by the time i have kids - i won't be able to afford anything like this for them. unless they change the game to warhammer one thousand. where your army consists of one mid sized titan that costs $1500. you may as well go do something outside. sad face. guess its time to go paint stuff i have so i can go broke on necrons.

[DAPHEEL]

Damn some of them are pricey, I'll be having one of those emperor's champions. My condolancies to the overseas fans - with the extra mark-up it's going to wreck their gaming budget.

[DAPHEEL]

P.S. Check the G.W. main site in the what's new "citadel finecast announced"

[lattd]

I swear GW site keeps having problems as they post news but it takes a while before the article appears.

[Drew da Destroya]

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=16400050a

I see the title, but the article hasn't loaded yet... probably because GW servers aren't prepared to handle news of this magnitude.

[yrdetraxe]

They've just posted the headlines. There is no article yet. ;)

Dang, now there is a article....
But there is hardly any real information apart from the date.. :(

[Gotthammer]

It's up now:


http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1780673a_CFCHeader.png


Games Workshop's quest to create the best quality miniatures in the world is about to take a huge step forward...

On 28th May we are launching Citadel Finecast miniatures to the world.

Don't miss the full announcement on games-workshop.com on the 23rd May to find out more.

Be sure to be at your local Hobby Centre to experience this unique, once-in-a-lifetime launch day! This will be your first chance to see, touch and buy Citadel Finecast miniatures.

In the meantime, there's only one question you need to ask yourself:

"What will my first Citadel Finecast miniature be?"



TL;DR: We are announcing there will be an announcement! Blah, blah, blah...

[lattd]

There is one thing that really stood out in that announcement and that was the suggestion the models are more detailed.

[Legoklods]

NOOOOOOOO THOSE HEARTLESS *******S!!!!!!

how... could... they... do... this... this... CRIME!

Dont ever change "The Green Knight"! It is supposed to be a universal constant:eek:

[Necron2.0]

Reduce GWs costs, which were significant, they were nearly making a loss on some metals, at least according to others in the casting business who couldn't believe how cheap GWs metals were.

See, this I don't believe. I mean, we've all heard it time and time again. Every time GW raises prices, official apologists come out wringing their hands, tears streaming down their face, claiming, "Oh, poor pitiful me, I can barely make a profit."

:|

Here is the problem. Looking at this black box, I can go to my local game store right now and buy a miniature from a different manufacturer of equal (or more often superior) quality to any comparable mini in the GW line, and it will be cheaper. Some of these people have been in business since well before Citadel miniatures came into being. If these people can stay profitable offering mini's at sometime half the price of GW, what's GW's problem?

[lattd]

Here is the problem. Looking at this black box, I can go to my local game store right now and buy a miniature from a different manufacturer of equal (or more often superior) quality to any comparable mini in the GW line, and it will be cheaper. Some of these people have been in business since well before Citadel miniatures came into being. If these people can stay profitable offering mini's at sometime half the price of GW, what's GW's problem?



Superior to quality maybe to marines but have you seen the Dark Eldar range? Which has the cheapest troops with the highest quality minis in the GW range.

[Rusty Nail]

:eek:Those prices!
Still I reckon they'll go down a fair bit once GW start making back some of the money they've lost on the transition. Best thing I can see there; plastic eldar rangers :) One of the only things I don't like about the current eldar is the metal troops... not any more;)

Really when was the last time GW dropped prices on anything?

Tom

[DadExtraordinaire]

The new DE are possibly the best plastic figures out tthere at the moment....can't wait for Jes and Phil on the new Eldar dex and figs!

[lattd]

GW drops prices once due to a tax cut in the UK

[DadExtraordinaire]

oops

[wittdooley]

Here is the problem. Looking at this black box, I can go to my local game store right now and buy a miniature from a different manufacturer of equal (or more often superior) quality to any comparable mini in the GW line, and it will be cheaper.

You're full of it if you're claiming this. To get a similarly quality miniature, you're paying the same prices. Comparable Privateer models are $17.99. What other miniature lines are you claiming are of equal or better quality, yet cost less? I'd really like to know, because I'm calling BS.

[DadExtraordinaire]

See, this I don't believe. I mean, we've all heard it time and time again. Every time GW raises prices, official apologists come out wringing their hands, tears streaming down their face, claiming, "Oh, poor pitiful me, I can barely make a profit."

:|

Here is the problem. Looking at this black box, I can go to my local game store right now and buy a miniature from a different manufacturer of equal (or more often superior) quality to any comparable mini in the GW line, and it will be cheaper. Some of these people have been in business since well before Citadel miniatures came into being. If these people can stay profitable offering mini's at sometime half the price of GW, what's GW's problem?



Greed?

[A HUGE BLUNT]

Who need competitors when Games Workshop does a fine job of being its own worst enemy?

[MrGiggles]

Depends on what you're going for. There are some very nicely done miniatures out there for some very attractive prices. There are also some very poorly done ones out there for a wide variety of prices. It all comes down to: "Was the Plastic Dudething you bought worth the price you paid as you see it?"

If the answer is "Yes.", then you're good. If the answer is "No.", well, then I'm not sure why you made the purchase.

I can't say I'm particularly happy about a price increase either, but GW is, for better or for worse, a 'for profit' company. They're in the game to make money. As annoying as the practice is, it's probably going to help to ensure that we've support for the game in the years to come.

In terms of the actual minis, I suppose we'll see what the level of detail is like on them. It's definitely going to be different to work with for me since I do most of my prep work indoors. I guess I'll learn to file and cut wet rather than dry.

[Skragger]

Would this new material also include better detail on the model as well? if so ill consider paying a bit more for that benefit.

I wouldn't get my hopes too high for a noticable jump in quality. Remember: higher quality = higher price. A lot of GWs sculpts are already pretty decent quality, and to get better would get closer to stepping on Forge World toes. I'd rather have the scupts at the current quality if it means lowered prices.

Forgeworld is generally a rare sight mostly because of the price, I don't want to see normal GW prices hitting those levels because of the quality of the sculpt. That'd shut a lot of us out of the hobby (imho).

[eldargal]

It was not GW who said it, it was another miniature producer who said he couldn't believe GW was still able to offer metal blisters at nine pounds each.

[Count Fenring]

The amusing thing about these earlier rumors included the fanciful idea that resin would allow GW to give a price decrease...:D

GW can do this because they honestly don't have much in the way of competition. The biggest shortcoming of their competitors, is that they seem to think since they are approaching GW quality, they can charge GW prices. If I worked for GW, I would be laughing my hind end off as this basically keeps GW competitors exactly where they are now, far behind.

GW knows exactly how far they can push you (us) all with price hikes. They have plenty of cheer leaders on this forum alone who will cry on about the cost of doing business, hurf, blurf, etc. You will take it as per usual. They are basically the only game in town.

Look to ebay in the coming days for addicted junkies who have the mental conviction to kick the habit.

[Calypso2ts]

Of course the price increase could be smaller than it would have been with the recent increases in the price of metal. For example, one of the main ingredients in Pewter is Tin. The commodity price of tin is nearly 3 times as much as it was in Jan 2009. It is 50% higher than its previous 5 year high in April 2008.

Before generically complaining about cost increases be sure to factor in inflation (2%-3% each year for the last 10 years), changes in commodity prices and changes in manufacturing standards and requirements.

In fact, maybe it would be best to get a degree as a manufacturing engineer so you actually understand what goes into creating these minis. I am not 'apologizing' on GW behalf for the increases, I am equally as bummed about the price increase but I also understand it. GW does not post so spectacular of profits that it would seem we are all being grossly taken advantage of. Further, if you are happy with your new DE, GK or that new Fire Prism kit you just picked up...maybe it is worth the cost to you?

I bought 2 Soul Grinders a few months ago - they are expensive, as much as a LR I think - I love the model, I love its overall rules and the hours of enjoyment I have gotten out of painting it, converting it and playing with it has been far cheaper than seeing a movie, going to dinner or drinking beer (not that beer and 40k are mutually exclusive!)

[royalpain88]

Excuse me people. Has anyone noticed the extremely limited number of Tau units like Cm. Shadowsun and our pathfinders and other metal figures are none-existent. Does this coincide with rumors of a summer release?

[eldargal]

It is a rubbish picture but someone spotted this at a GW in Germany:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=110505&d=1305568037

It is one of the Fine Cast models and appears to depict either the Decapitator or a Haemonculi, it could also indicate that the Fine Cast range may include new sculpts.

[wittdooley]

It was not GW who said it, it was another miniature producer who said he couldn't believe GW was still able to offer metal blisters at nine pounds each.

Meaning that GW could be charging more based on the costs of metal?

[Lancel]

I don't know, I wouldn't draw many conclusions from which models are missing, though it does seem to coincide slightly with rumors of upcoming releases. Limited Necron and Tau, and not even a single Sister or Witch Hunter model made the switch so far.

Still, a switch this big will take time, this list is pretty limited in the grand scheme of things, and I suspect GW will want to clear out their metal caches, so metal they still have enough to last a few months on will probably still be metal for a while until GW gets around to making resin of them. They'd do it in batches, so it will take time for them to convert everything over.

The new name is probably just to give it a line name, marketing, rather than a promise of better detail than metal. Not to say it isn't possible, I just mean don't get your hopes up and we shall see what we shall see.

[eldargal]

Yep, this chap had had to increase the cost of his metals considerably and seemed to imply GW could easily have charged a lot more given what they cost to produce.

[wittdooley]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Avatars of War figs (one of the primaries that I consider to be a GW peer in terms of quality & size of mini) are almost identical in pricing structure, are they not? Further, I think it's going to be really interesting to see how nice their plastic berzerker kit comes out. 20 minis for 25 GBP seems to be a great price if the quality is where it appears to be.

[Gotthammer]

You're full of it if you're claiming this. To get a similarly quality miniature, you're paying the same prices. Comparable Privateer models are $17.99. What other miniature lines are you claiming are of equal or better quality, yet cost less? I'd really like to know, because I'm calling BS.

Red Box, Reaper, Studio McVey, Hasslefree, Khurasan, Dark Sword, Wyrd, Enigma, G.O.T., Pulp Minis, Copplestone...

[Cyberscape7]

Really when was the last time GW dropped prices on anything?

Tom

Actually I remember in 2008 near the end of the year, all the aspect warriors were going up in price but for some reason Dark reapers went down.
Besides, GW is bound to decrease their prices- in time. Despite them being a company and wanting to make a profit, their going to keep the prices in a range so that the middle classes can afford them. And, compared to other hobbies (e.g. golf club=£200), I don't think that the prices are that extravegant.
Now... BRING ON THE CRITICISM XD

[eldargal]

Well, I use a lot of Reaper and Hasslefree bits for conversions, I wouldn't say they are s good as GW let alone better. Studio McVey charge similar prices to GW for small resin sculpots (£10-15). Red Box to produce a very nice miniature at a lower than GW price, I'll grant you that. The rest I haven't had much experiene with. I'm not defending GWs prices here, but in general I don't think its fair to say the competition are better and cheaper than GW.

[wittdooley]

Red Box
Have never purchased so can't comment

Reaper

You're joking. They aren't consistently of the quality that GWs metals are.


Studio McVey
Conceded. Though I don't know if they're the same size as a GW miniature of the same cost, as I haven't worked with any of the new metals (I do own 3 of the resins)


Hasslefree
No way. Not even close to the same quality.

Khurasan
Unfamliar with, so I can't comment on.

Dark Sword
Only own one. It isn't close to the quality of my comparable human miniatures from GW.

Wyrd
Own three factions. Love the game. Not even close to GW quality, particularly in their casting.


Enigma
Right on par with GW in terms of pricing per size of miniature. Great minis, but invalid due to the similar pricing.


G.O.T.
Don't have any experience with. Can't comment.


Pulp Minis
No experience with so I can't comment.

Ill also throw in that Freebooter Miniatures, Avatars of War & Tales of War miniatures have metals that are of comparable quality to GW (I think the Tales of War are better than GW) but they all are priced very simiarly for the amount of metal used in the miniature.

As it is, there are very few companies doing similar quality to GW, and there are none doing it for cheaper based on the model size. That's why the Jokaero Weaponsmith is only $13 bucks and Draigo is $22; there is a significant difference in the amount of metal used.

[Lane]

:eek:Those prices!
Still I reckon they'll go down a fair bit once GW start making back some of the money they've lost on the transition.

Right, and the government care about you.



Of course it is possible they scanned the old models in in 3D, resculpted them digitally, remade large scale moulds, carved new detail, remade all the masters and then new moulds.

But I doubt it :P

Metal models were never sculpted at a larger scale.

The molds for metal minis, and most likely the new Finecast minis, were made directly from the greens

[DadExtraordinaire]

Reduce GWs costs, which were significant, they were nearly making a loss on some metals, at least according to others in the casting business who couldn't believe how cheap GWs metals were. Of course there are significant costs involved in this switch even though resin is cheaper, they have to retool every mould, drilling new vents and perhaps some other modificatiosn depending on the resin injection equipment they use.
Ok. But are they the same size as GW these others in the industry?

By reducing one of your biggest costs - raw materials, you would be saving the need for price increase if you can help it. Having worked in manufacturing for around 10 + years and I know a thing or two about introducing new raw materials with different processes requiring new tooling into an organisation of this size for a semi-niche market, however, when a company sets off down this road to reduce one of it's biggest costs then it does so with financial planning as one of the key governance on a project like this, with a plan to reduce or eliminate tail end products (i.e. loss leaders). It does not mean you have to increase price unless you either made a dogs dinner of the financial planning or an unexpected costs occurred (but agaiun financial plannign should have covered for this eventuality), or you wanted to sneak in a new price increase hence GW's none too subtle marketing blurb on their website this afternoon!

Given the world is still climbing / struggling up the long slow road to economic recovery see - Greece, Portugal, Ireland to name but three, putting ones prices up when wages are stagnent, or even falling in real terms (rising food, fuel and energy costs), is serious indeed and doesn't guarentee it will cover losses / costs.

[MarneusCalgar]

Fortunately, I have from that list many of the miniatures on the metal version, so this change won´t affect me so much but...

It doesn´t cease to be a shame either

[Lockark]

In the new blog post on the GW web sight it sounds like it implied some of these figures going into resin are getting new sculpts.
o.o


Ah ha, so that's what they've been up to in the Studio. I had wondered why, when I walked in there, people kept hiding models under their desk. From what I've seen of the new miniatures (I accidentally picked one of them up without realising what it was) they look absolutely stunning. So stay tuned, because next Monday you'll all get to find out a whole lot more about them.

Interesting....

[Necron2.0]

Red Box, Reaper, Studio McVey, Hasslefree, Khurasan, Dark Sword, Wyrd, Enigma, G.O.T., Pulp Minis, Copplestone...

I'd add to that list Dark Sword Miniatures. That and reaper mainly, although they have some dogs in there. Of course, so does Citadel. Dark Sword is consistently better and cheaper than GW, although they don't make any SciFi related minis. Still the issue is quality and price and they have it all over GW.

'Course, there's also Privateer Press (which I've seen $5.00 less for comparable minis).

[Rusty Nail]

Actually I remember in 2008 near the end of the year, all the aspect warriors were going up in price but for some reason Dark reapers went down.
Besides, GW is bound to decrease their prices- in time. Despite them being a company and wanting to make a profit, their going to keep the prices in a range so that the middle classes can afford them. And, compared to other hobbies (e.g. golf club=£200), I don't think that the prices are that extravegant.
Now... BRING ON THE CRITICISM XD

Hmmm, I've had a really good look at my post, and can't find any criticism in there at all - perhaps you could show me?

All sarcasm aside I was genuinely asking when had GW ever brought down prices as I didn't know about it, and I don't really think a tax cut and one set of minis for Eldar really counts as "bringing prices down".
As for being bound to bring down prices I'm afraid I can't follow your logic, as long as people keep buying their stuff at price "x" they'll keep selling it at price "x", I reckon the best we could hope for is the status quo for a while For the avoidence of doubt I'm not criticising GW, they are in this to make a profit for their shareholders, and I'll keep buying their stuff, but not as much as I was going to, and I'll be stripping and repainting minis rather than going for whole new armies as I used to do.

By the way I used to do trackdays at a total cost of several thousand pounds a year so yes I know about expensive hobbies and this isn't one of them.

Tom

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

Given that middle class wages increase yearly I do not think they would cut costs.

[Cyberscape7]

FYI Rustynail, there was no criticism in your first post, I just assumed that that last one would generate some. As for the price possibly decreasing, honest opinion, no idea! Thats just my optimistic nature at play ;) I do notice a pattern with the way things are going with these finecast price increases,
e.g. Oh no! The models have gone up in price! I'm not going to buy as many of them anymore!(p.s. not trying to mock anyone(seriously)) Just saying, if lots of people have this attitude (which I think its safe to say they do) then they're not going to sell many of them, so they will HAVE to lower the prices. Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting them to lower the prices of their models, I'm just hoping they will at some point in the future. =rant end=
Anyway, this price increase might be worth it IMO. That is assuming that the models are as detailed as GW's making them out to be. Guess we'll see in a couple of weeks :)

[Silver_Samurai28]

In the new blog post on the GW web sight it sounds like it implied some of these figures going into resin are getting new sculpts.
o.o

Quote:
Ah ha, so that's what they've been up to in the Studio. I had wondered why, when I walked in there, people kept hiding models under their desk. From what I've seen of the new miniatures (I accidentally picked one of them up without realising what it was) they look absolutely stunning. So stay tuned, because next Monday you'll all get to find out a whole lot more about them.

Interesting....

To me that suggests that the sculpts haven't changed at all, only the materials.

[Skragger]

I don't know, I wouldn't draw many conclusions from which models are missing, though it does seem to coincide slightly with rumors of upcoming releases. Limited Necron and Tau, and not even a single Sister or Witch Hunter model made the switch so far.

Still, a switch this big will take time, this list is pretty limited in the grand scheme of things, and I suspect GW will want to clear out their metal caches, so metal they still have enough to last a few months on will probably still be metal for a while until GW gets around to making resin of them. They'd do it in batches, so it will take time for them to convert everything over.

The new name is probably just to give it a line name, marketing, rather than a promise of better detail than metal. Not to say it isn't possible, I just mean don't get your hopes up and we shall see what we shall see.

Don't forget! They may have their eyes on making Sisters/WH in the works, they just dont want to tell us yet! Everything in that list has either been released, or GW has almost confirmed their upcoming release. Nothing spoilerish about this list sadly

[reynor]

I for one am pretty excited about a resin-like Azhag the Slaughterer. I never bought the metal one because it seemed like it would be sheer hell to pin together. (Of course the resin one could be as well).

It would also be neat to see some missing-in-action metal models return such as Sisters of Battle (even though they aren't on the list).

Otherwise MOST armies won't need too many Finecast models. Most things will already be plastic aside from your HQ, General or BSB. (Cringe. I know... there are armies with waaay to much metal. Dwarfs, I'm looking at you).

[lobster-overlord]

.

Is it just to do with the age of moulds? Newer moulds are easier to convert (or where designed to) work in resin?


Oh yeah, because Dante is a new model for sure.

It looks to be a list of popular models (from a retail sales point of view, not a "I think these are cool" models from any one person's point of view)

[lobster-overlord]

. If these people can stay profitable offering mini's at sometime half the price of GW, what's GW's problem?



Shareholders. GW is one of, if not the only all game company that is publicly traded. Thus they are responsible not only to customers and employees, but to the shareholder, and that makes a huge world of difference from what a smaller company might have.

(WOTC doesn't count, as they sold their soul to Hasbro after they screwed themselves on limiting who could sell Magic cards and thus lost market share and any profit margin)

[Xas]

Again I cannot understand all those complainy people....

I will start complaining about GW prices when starting a new army from scratch costs you as much as a scuba or skiing equipment + bi-yearly vacations to make use of said equipment.


Assuming the quality is right this might be the spark to reignite my tyranid love (prolly will get a docen warrior boxes before the may price increase just to be shure ^^) and I'll replace my metal nids with resin ones in one fell swoop (meaning my bag will be half as heavy and paint will actually stay on a hiveguard that tips slightly over or even a zoantrope!)

[DrLove42]

It is a rubbish picture but someone spotted this at a GW in Germany:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=110505&d=1305568037

It is one of the Fine Cast models and appears to depict either the Decapitator or a Haemonculi, it could also indicate that the Fine Cast range may include new sculpts.

I gonna dig out the one useful piece of info in this thread :P

I think i like as a hemon...hes too energetic for the decapitator...I want him skulking like in his codex artwork.

[daboarder]

Again I cannot understand all those complainy people....

I will start complaining about GW prices when starting a new army from scratch costs you as much as a scuba or skiing equipment + bi-yearly vacations to make use of said equipment.


Actually you know what....I CAN get a new snowboard for HALF the price of a new army, and I know what I will be doing.

[Necron2.0]

Again I cannot understand all those complainy people....

I will start complaining about GW prices when starting a new army from scratch costs you as much as a scuba or skiing equipment + bi-yearly vacations to make use of said equipment.

I sincerely hope you're not suggesting that collecting minis for a game in any way equates to going on vacation. If you are ... you need to get out more. ;) The difference in scale between this game and those things you mentioned is equivalent to the difference between making love and looking at a girlie magazine in the book store. If one group of friends asks me do I want to game, while another asks me do I want to go to Cancun, and there's no difference in cost. I'll be selling my game stuff to go to Cancun.

[TheRise]

Its not Resin... its "Citadel Fine Cast"... **** off! Its Resin. Its poisonus. Less kids are going to start the hobby now, and its at the near teens age when they start to get hooked. kids will have to wear protective masks, and its a significant price increase when you think about it, especialy on the younger pocket. They are now going to lose more customers, who will go to other ranges to get alternatives. Also I thought resin was cheaper to do? Yeah but they still gotta get over 200% profit! Damn ****ing GW... one very Ranty e-mail is about to get sent, and I hope it is not the only one!

[eldargal]

Don't be stupid, GWs regular plastic is a resinised plastic (or plasticised resin, I forget), its fine. This new one is like that, they spent quite some time looking for a resin which would do what they wanted and was harmless. They found one.

[TheRise]

Oh and yeah they are putting in restrictions to selling now... GW have gone too far...

[wittdooley]

Don't be stupid, GWs regular plastic is a resinised plastic (or plasticised resin, I forget), its fine. This new one is like that, they spent quite some time looking for a resin which would do what they wanted and was harmless. They found one.

But...But... it's so much easier to complain and post unsubstantiated claims and baseless accusations! Damned be actual information or supported facts! Watch:

Citadel FineCast models are going to kill people! GW wants to poison people! There's a snake in my boots!

[Deadlift]

But...But... it's so much easier to complain and post unsubstantiated claims and baseless accusations! Damned be actual information or supported facts! Watch:

Citadel FineCast models are going to kill people! GW wants to poison people! There's a snake in my boots!

Hell if the kids want to they could have some fun with the aerosols, glue and plug up their arses with green stuff. Forget about the self harming antics that can be had with scalpels and the razor saw. I forgot children don't have responsible parents anymore.

[Malachi]

Don't be stupid, GWs regular plastic is a resinised plastic (or plasticised resin, I forget), its fine. This new one is like that, they spent quite some time looking for a resin which would do what they wanted and was harmless. They found one.

I agree that is most likely the case. I heard on a podcast (Independent Characters?) that if the resin material they were using was harmful, they by law couldn't sell them in a retail store context. The law doesn't allow any company to sell something that can be construed as a "toy" (and the definition of "toy" is pretty broad) that is made of a material that is toxic/harmful. They would literally lose the ability to sell any of those resin models via retail stores.

[MarneusCalgar]

First Citadel Finecast miniatures HERE:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/originalci.jpg/

[Skragger]

But...But... it's so much easier to complain and post unsubstantiated claims and baseless accusations! Damned be actual information or supported facts! Watch:

Citadel FineCast models are going to kill people! GW wants to poison people! There's a snake in my boots!

OH SHART WITTDOOLEY! GET DOWN! THARS A SNAKE IN YAR BOOT! :eek:

To be fair, the fact I can no longer suck on a metal model and get brain damage really does bother me. I was really hoping to use it as an excuse to do all sorts of crazy things :mad:

[lattd]

Im guessing the classified pic next to the DE models is a special character, not too sure what the one near the skaven could be.

[Docmani]

IT'S PEOPLE!!!!

Citadel FineCast is made from PEOPLE!!!!!!!

[The Green Git]

To be fair, the fact I can no longer suck on a metal model and get brain damage really does bother me. I was really hoping to use it as an excuse to do all sorts of crazy things :mad:

So that explains what happened to Gav Thorpe. :D

[Emerald Rose Widow]

IT'S PEOPLE!!!!

Citadel FineCast is made from PEOPLE!!!!!!!

haha, love the soylent green referance


This is normal though, any time a major change happens in any niche, no matter how specialized, there are the change-phobic morons who don't actually look into the actual facts. Its like that stupid "innoculations cause autism" bull****, they don't care about actual facts, they listen to any source that says something is dangerous and rail against it, whether that be true or not. It is kind of sad really

[Lane]

Iif the resin material they were using was harmful, they by law couldn't sell them in a retail store context.

The cured resin is not hazardous, the dust from sanding can be.

They sell car batteries at retail stores but the lead inside is hazardous.

[Kawauso]

The cured resin is not hazardous, the dust from sanding can be.

They sell car batteries at retail stores but the lead inside is hazardous.

You're ignoring the part of Malachi's post which specified that this is with regards to anything that can be construed as a toy...which car batteries are not.

I really, highly doubt that the resin used for these models is going to be dangerous at all. Forge World can do that because they're specialty branch of a niche hobby. I don't think GW itself could/would want to do something like that.

[Gotthammer]

Forge World's pdf guide to using their kits states that they are not toxic. Still wouldn't breathe the dust any more than I'd breathe in dust from sanding a plank of wood though.

[Lockark]

Even if it's "regular resin" it's not that big a deal. It just means that when you sand/file you need a bowel of water to continuously wet your sand paper/files. As loon as everything is wet you keep down the dust and make clean up easier.

[DrifterUK]

Im interested to see what sort of quality these new Finecast figures are.The price increase doesnt really bother all that much to be honest, some of the stuff Ive bought over the years makes GWs stuff seem cheap in comparison

Im also hoping the smell of the resin doesnt give me a headache like resin usually does

[Brass Scorpion]

There's a list of some of the first Finecast models to be released by GW at FTW Games' web page:

http://www.ftwgames.net/2011/05/citadel-fi...-pre-order.html (http://www.ftwgames.net/2011/05/citadel-finecast-model-list-pre-order.html)


Citadel Finecast Model List Pre-Order Now Quantities ARE Limited
Posted by Man Boy Genius Wednesday, May 18, 2011

We are now taking pre-orders for all the Citadel Finecast models coming out May 28th. I trying to make sure everyone that wants them has an opportunity to get them.
I will be able to get a max of 3 of each kit at first, and my re-orders will be severely limited for the first couple of months.

So if you wants, please stop by and pre-order. The list of whats being released is below. Some of them are multiple model kits as well new single blisters.
This is all kinda sudden for all of us, but lets make the most of it and get some sweet new resin minis!!!

FELLOWSHIP OF RING
THE DARK LORD SAURON
GULAHVAR
MRDR TROLL CHIEFTAIN
GANDALF THE WHITE
ARAGORN (BLACK GATE)
ELROND AND GIL-GALAD
SULADAN SERPENT LORD
SARUMAN AND GRIMA
BOROMIR (ITHILIEN)
DAIN AND BALIN
GOTHMOG (PELENNOR)
URUK-HAI W.CROSSBOWS
THEODEN (HELMS DEEP)
THE DARK MARSHAL
URUK-HAI BERSERKERS
COMMANDER DANTE
ASTORATH THE GRIM
NURGLE DAEMON PRINCE
CSM RAPTORS
DEATH GUARD MARINES
ABADDON
HURON BLACKHEART
D.A COMPANY MASTER
DARK ELDAR INCUBI
DARK ELDAR MANDRAKES
DARK ELDAR ARCHON
DARK ELDAR SUCCUBUS
URIEN RAKARTH
LELITH HESPERAX
FARSEER & WARLOCKS
ELDAR RANGERS
ELDAR DARK REAPERS
STRIKING SCORPIONS
AUTARCH W.POWER WPN
THE AVATAR OF KHAINE
DEATH JESTER
HARLEQUIN SHADOWSEER
COMMISSAR YARRICK
I.GUARD COMMISSAR
CALGAR & HON. GUARD
TECHMARINE W.SERVITR
STERNGUARD VETERANS
VANGUARD VETS SQUAD
TERMINATOR LIBRARIAN
SM CHAPLAIN W.J.PACK
GHAZGHKULL THRAKA
ORK TANKBUSTAS
MEK W. SHOKK GUN
BOSS ZAGSTRUK
ORK WARBOSS W.SQUIG
ORK BIG MEK
ORK PAINBOY
TYRANID HIVE TYRANT
TYRANID PYROVORE
TYRANID LICTOR
TYRANID ZOANTHROPE
TYRANID TYRANT GUARD
TYRANID HIVE GUARD
TYRANID BROODLORD
CANIS WOLFBORN
LOGAN GRIMNAR
NJAL STORMCALLER
B.T SWORD BRETHREN
EMPERORS CHAMPION
SNIPER DRONE TEAM
ETHEREAL HONOUR BLDE
LORD KALDOR DRAIGO
BROTHER CAP. STERN
CASTELLAN CROWE
INQUISITOR COTEAZ
MALAGOR DARK OMEN
KING LOUEN LEONCOEUR
THE GREEN KNIGHT
CHAOS SHAGGOTH
ARCHAON EVERCHOSEN
CHAOS EXALTED HERO
KHORNE EXALTED HERO
THOREK IRONBROW
DWARF GYROCOPTER
DWARF BOLT THROWER
DWARF LORD W.HAMMER
DWARF RUNELORD
D/ELVES BOLT THROWR
D.E ASASSIN W.2HWEPS
KURT HELBORG
LUDWIG SCHWARZHELM
CAPTAIN W.HAMMER
CARADRYAN
KROQ GAR
AZHAG T.SLAUGHTERER
WARBOSS ON WYVERN
GOBLIN ROCK LOBBER
ORC SHAMAN ON BOAR
GOBLIN SPEAR CHUKKA
GORBAD IRONCLAW
GRIMGOR IRONHIDE
BLACK ORC BIG BOSS
SKAVEN JEZZAILS
SKAVEN WARLORD
QUEEK HEADTAKER
DEATHMASTER SNIKCH
VARGHULF
BLOOD KNIGHTS
COUNT MANNFRED
VAMPIRE LORD
ORION
WOOD ELVES TREEMAN
WOOD ELVES TREE KIN
HIGHBORN W.GREAT WEP
FLAMERS OF TZEENTCH
SKULLTAKER
LRD ON DAEMON MNT


Some Finecast prices:

http://www.40karmies.com/space-marines/gw-...finecast-prices (http://www.40karmies.com/space-marines/gw-price-hikes-and-updated-citadel-finecast-prices)


The Wraith Gate went ahead and updated the prices to USD from the Pound floating around the net, and calculated the change in cost.

Blood Angels
COMMANDER DANTE £10.50 – $17 – was $17 – hike + $0
ASTORATH THE GRIM £12.50 – $20 – was $17 – hike + $3

Chaos Daemons
SKULLTAKER £14.50 – $23.50 – was $20 – hike + $3.50
FLAMERS OF TZEENTCH £15.50 – $25 – was $22.50 – hike + $2.50

Chaos Space Marines
ABADDON THE DESPOILER £14.50 – $23.50 – was $22 – hike + $1.50
HURON BLACKHEART £10.50 – $17 – was $17 – hike + $0
CHAOS SPACE MARINE RAPTORS £25.50 – $41.50 – was $45 – hike - $3.50
DEATH GUARD PLAGUE MARINES £25.50 – $41.50 – was $35 – hike + $6.50
NURGLE DAEMON PRINCE £21.50 – $30 – was $35 – hike -$5

Dark Eldar
DARK ELDAR ARCHON £9.50 – $15.50 – was $15 – hike + $.50
LELITH HESPERAX £10.50 – $17 – was $15 – hike + $2
URIEN RAKARTH £10.50 – $17 – was $15 – hike + $2
DARK ELDAR SUCCUBUS £9.50 – $15.50 – was $15 – hike + $.50
DARK ELDAR INCUBI £23.00 – $37.30 – was $29.75 – hike + $7.55
DARK ELDAR MANDRAKES £20.50 – $33.30 – was $29.75 – hike + $3.55

Eldar
ELDAR AUTARCH WITH POWER WEAPON £10.50 – $17 – was $15 – hike + $2
THE AVATAR OF KHAINE £22.50 – $36.50 – was $30 – hike + $6.50
HARLEQUIN DEATH JESTER £10.50 – $17 – was $13.25 – hike + $3.75
HARLEQUIN SHADOWSEER £10.50 – $17 – was $13.25 – hike + $3.75
ELDAR RANGERS £20.50 – $33.30 – was $33 – hike + $.30
ELDAR DARK REAPERS £23.00 – $37.30 – was $33 – hike + $4.30
ELDAR STRIKING SCORPIONS £23.00 – $37.30 – was $30 – hike + $7.30
ELDAR FARSEER AND WARLOCKS £20.50 – $33.30 – was $30 – hike + $3

Grey Knights
BROTHER CAPTAIN STERN £14.50 – $23.50 – was $20 – hike + $3.50
LORD KALDOR DRAIGO £14.50 – $23.50 – was $22.25 – hike + $1.25
CASTELLAN CROWE £10.50 – $17 – was $16.50 – hike + $.50
INQUISITOR COTEAZ £10.50 – $17 – was $16.50 – hike + $.50

Imperial Guard
COMMISSAR YARRICK £10.50 – $17 – was $ – hike +
IMPERIAL GUARD LORD COMMISSAR £9.50 – $15.50 – was $15 – hike + $.50

Necrons
None

Orks
ORK WARBOSS WITH ATTACK SQUIG £14.50 – $23.50 – was $20 – hike + $3.50
ORK BIG MEK £14.50 – $23.50 – was $20 – hike + $3.50
ORK PAINBOY WITH GROT ORDERLY £10.50 – $17 – was $13.25 – hike + $3.75
BOSS ZAGSTRUK £14.50 – $23.50 – was $22 – hike + $1.50
GHAZGHKULL THRAKA £22.50 – $36.50 – was $35 – hike + $1.50
ORK TANKBUSTAS £25.50 – $41.50 – was $37.25 – hike + $4.25
ORK BIG MEK WITH SHOKK ATTACK GUN £23.00 – $37.30 – was $30 – hike + $7.30

Space Marines
SPACE MARINE CHAPLAIN WITH JUMP PACK £10.50 – $17 – was $15 – hike + $2
SM LIBRARIAN IN TERMINATOR ARMOUR £14.50 – $23.50 – was $19.75 – hike + $3.75
MARNEUS CALGAR AND HONOUR GUARD £36.00 – $58.50 – was $41.25 – hike + $17.25
SPACE MARINE TECHMARINE WITH SERVITORS £25.50 – $41.50 – was $41.25 – hike + $.25
SPACE MARINE STERNGUARD VETERAN SQUAD £25.50 – $41.50 – was $35 – hike + $6.50
SPACE MARINE VANGUARD VETERAN SQUAD £25.50 – $41.50 – was $35 – hike + $6.50

Space Marine – Dark Angels
DARK ANGELS COMPANY MASTER £10.50 – $17 – was $15 – hike + $2

Space Marine – Black Templars
THE EMPERORS CHAMPION £9.50 – $15.50 – was $15 – hike + $.50
BLACK TEMPLARS SWORD BRETHREN SQUAD £25.50 – $41.50 – was $41.25 – hike + $.25

Space Wolves
NJAL STORMCALLER £14.50 – $23.50 – was $22.25 – hike + $1.25
CANIS WOLFBORN £30.00 – $48.70 – was $41.25 – hike + $7.45
LOGAN GRIMNAR £14.50 – $23.50 – was $20 – hike + $3.50

Tau
TAU ETHEREAL WITH HONOUR BLADE £9.50 – $15.50 – was $15 – hike + $.50
TAU SNIPER DRONE TEAM £23.00 – $37.30 – was $33 – hike + $4.30

Tyranids
TYRANID ZOANTHROPE £15.50 – $25 – was $22.25 – hike + $2.75
TYRANID TYRANT GUARD £15.50 – $25 – was $22.25 – hike + $2.75
TYRANID HIVE GUARD £15.50 – $25 – was $20 – hike + $5
TYRANID BROODLORD £15.50 – $25 – was $20 – hike + $5
TYRANID LICTOR £15.50 – $25 – was $22.25 – hike + $2.75
TYRANID HIVE TYRANT £36.00 – $58.50 – was $49.50 – hike + $9
TYRANID PYROVORE £21.50 – $30 – was $33 – hike - $3

Witch Hunters
None

Fantasy and LoTR
83-62 CHAOS EXALTED HERO £9.50
83-63 CHAOS KHORNE EXALTED HERO £10.50
86-60 EMPIRE CAPTAIN WITH HAMMER & PISTOL £9.50
92-60 WOOD ELF HIGHBORN WITH GREAT WEAPON £9.50
84-60 DWARF LORD WITH HAMMER & SHIELD £9.50
84-61 DWARF RUNELORD WITH GREAT WEAPON £9.50
90-60 SKAVEN WARLORD £9.50
90-61 QUEEK HEADTAKER £10.50
90-62 DEATHMASTER SNIKCH £10.50
91-61 VAMPIRE LORD £9.50
89-60 GRIMGOR IRONHIDE £10.50
89-62 BLACK ORC BIG BOSS £10.50
87-60 CARADRYAN £10.50
85-61 DARK ELF ASSASSIN WITH TWO HAND WEAPONS £9.50
81-60 MALAGOR THE DARK OMEN £12.50
10-61 URUK-HAI WITH CROSSBOWS £14.00
10-62 URUK-HAI BERSERKERS £14.00
08-61 GOTHMOG (PELENNOR) £20.50
05-60 ELROND AND GIL-GALAD £15.00
10-60 SARUMAN AND GRIMA £15.00
02-60 GANDALF THE WHITE £20.50
04-60 ARAGORN (THE BLACK GATE) £20.50
04-62 THEODEN (HELM’S DEEP) £20.50
04-61 BOROMIR (ITHILIEN) £20.50
09-60 SULADAN THE SERPENT LORD £20.50
08-62 THE DARK MARSHAL (RINGWRAITH) £20.50
05-61 DAIN AND BALIN £15.00
83-42 ARCHAON THE EVERCHOSEN £30.00
83-43 CHAOS LORD ON DAEMONIC MOUNT £22.50
83-41 CHAOS DRAGON OGRE SHAGGOTH £36.00
86-41 LUDWIG SCHWARZHELM £22.50
86-40 KURT HELBORG £22.50
82-41 THE GREEN KNIGHT £22.50
82-40 KING LOUEN LEONCOEUR £30.00
92-42 WOOD ELVES TREE KIN £30.00
92-40 ORION KING IN THE WOODS £22.50
92-41 WOOD ELVES TREEMAN £36.00
84-40 THOREK IRONBROW £36.00
84-41 DWARF GYROCOPTER £23.00
84-42 DWARF BOLT THROWER £23.00
90-40 SKAVEN WARPLOCK JEZZAILS £30.00
91-40 VAMPIRE COUNTS VARGHULF £21.50
91-42 COUNT MANNFRED £22.50
91-41 VAMPIRE COUNTS BLOOD KNIGHTS £61.50
88-41 KROQ GAR £40.00
89-44 GOBLIN SPEAR CHUKKA £18.50
89-43 SAVAGE ORC GREAT SHAMAN ON WAR BOAR £15.50
89-41 ORC WARBOSS ON WYVERN £40.00
89-42 GOBLIN ROCK LOBBER £23.00
89-45 GORBAD IRONCLAW £30.00
89-40 AZHAG THE SLAUGHTERER £55.00
85-41 DARK ELVES REAPER BOLT THROWER £18.50
08-40 THE DARK LORD SAURON £25.50
08-42 GULAHVAR THE TERROR OF ARNOR £30.00
08-43 MORDOR TROLL CHIEFTAIN £25.50
02-40 THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING £37.00

[eldargal]

The latest article about Fine Cast is up here (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=16700019a):

I have to say, I can see an improvement:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1820942a_blog230511_2_XL.jpg

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1820952a_blog230511_4_XL.jpg

[wittdooley]

Oh sweet mammy jammy those look nice. I'm 100% sold.

[eldargal]

Me too, I have my unprimed metal winged autarch right in front of me and the difference is significant.

[wittdooley]

Awesome to hear. I know it's going to make some of those cumbersome large metal models infinitely easier to deal with (Gyrocopter, Wyvern, Azhag).

[DrLove42]

Was talking to my manager in store this morning about them

He says they are very nice, and come in the Blisters on a little sprue type thing.

He also says there is a lot of flash, but its so fine it just rubs off in your fingers, and the detail improvement is notable

[pgarfunkle]

I'm looking forward to seeing the new models, while an increase in price on models makes me sad I am glad to see the back of metal as I hate assembling, painting and playing with them!

Not sure what I'll pick up first though

[Defenestratus]

The only difference I can really see in the autarch model is the sash around the midsection has more definition. The blood knight is much better though.

[TheRise]

Haha I love how so much GW bashing has been going on... and now everybody loves them and is talkign about what they are gonna buy...

[DrifterUK]

After seeing these new photos from the blog post, Im definitely looking forward to getting my hands on one

Ive just started a DE army, so Im hoping to get a finecast Hesperax on saturday

[Groat]

So is there any news on if the plastic/resin hybrid will be able to work with plastic glue or is this superglue only?

[Drew da Destroya]

Anybody else think it's funny that the painted "finecast" models showcased in today's post are just the Metal models, with a new background image?

The unpainteds look really cool, but the painted one (at least the Autarch, didn't really check the other 2) is just the same picture we've been staring at everytime we clicked "HQ" under the Eldar section.

[DrifterUK]

So is there any news on if the plastic/resin hybrid will be able to work with plastic glue or is this superglue only?

Pretty sure its superglue only. I vaguely remember the staff at my local GW confirming that when I went in there on Friday

[Lancel]

Me too, I have my unprimed metal winged autarch right in front of me and the difference is significant.

Hey, maybe if you could, you could do up a comparison pic. I'm sure someone will be doing this eventually, but it might help us see the difference.

[harrybuttwhisker]

The crispness of the cast is due to the mechanical properties of resin, any miniature transferred from metal to resin would show a similar increase in crispness.

There is no extra detail the new moulds are created from the original masters used for the metal miniatures.

GW has bought in industry standard equipment to replace ageing soon to be replaced metal casting equipment. There is no R & D cost or huge investment in new tooling, merely a days training for the casting guys.

They brought in resin to replace metal as it is 60-90% cheaper depending on volume to cast in resin, it removes the Market instability of metal prices from there annual costings forecast and because it is lighter it reduces shipping costs.

GW where not the first to start the change from metal to resin in wargaming circles, the big name that did this was privateer press. Privateer press recognised the savings and were able to pass on a price decrease as well as increasing there profit margins.

GW has instead increased the prices on these miniatures by a measure way over inflation.

This is nothing but flagrant profiteering an are trying to use untruthful biased reporting of the change over through media channels it controls (there website, there facebook page, White dwarf and store employs) to hide the truth from there customers.

GW no longer respects it's customers enough to tell them the truth and even worse goes out of there way to hide it.

[wittdooley]

The crispness of the cast is due to the mechanical properties of resin, any miniature transferred from metal to resin would show a similar increase in crispness.

There is no extra detail the new moulds are created from the original masters used for the metal miniatures.

GW has bought in industry standard equipment to replace ageing soon to be replaced metal casting equipment. There is no R & D cost or huge investment in new tooling, merely a days training for the casting guys.

They brought in resin to replace metal as it is 60-90% cheaper depending on volume to cast in resin, it removes the Market instability of metal prices from there annual costings forecast and because it is lighter it reduces shipping costs.

GW where not the first to start the change from metal to resin in wargaming circles, the big name that did this was privateer press. Privateer press recognised the savings and were able to pass on a price decrease as well as increasing there profit margins.

GW has instead increased the prices on these miniatures by a measure way over inflation.

This is nothing but flagrant profiteering an are trying to use untruthful biased reporting of the change over through media channels it controls (there website, there facebook page, White dwarf and store employs) to hide the truth from there customers.

GW no longer respects it's customers enough to tell them the truth and even worse goes out of there way to hide it.

Dude, Privateer didn't reduce the cost of any of their plastic troops. They still cost the exact same as their metal counterparts.

[BrokenWing]

You know for years the elitist attitude in gaming in this area was Warhammer Fantasy players, but now it's the local Warmachine players who try to convince you how stupid you are for not playing Warmachine (I'm sorry, I don't find warmachine appealing at all)and apparently that has carried over to the internet as well. Our local store carries both products and I keep an eye on Warmachine models and pricing, and I have no idea where he's getting this "lower prices" line. When GW starts charging $85 for a metal horse drawn wagon, let me know.

[harrybuttwhisker]

Between buying a khador starter box in metal for myself, then a plastic/resin one for a commission shortly after the change it had dropped by just over a fiver in price. Both were bought from the same retailer a couple of months apart and it was the same for all the starter boxes.

[BrokenWing]

All the starter boxes here are the same price they've always been. I will say they have nicely priced starter boxes (but so does GW these days. They cost more, but you also get more) but after that I don't see much of a price difference.

[harrybuttwhisker]

I can only speak for the price changes I experienced over here. The gun carriage BTW is the equivalent of a bane blade which is what $95 these days.

Personally I'm a huge fan of the GW game systems, I like the models and I like the setting. The prices themselves alone are no real issue you for me, I'm financially comfortable.

The bugbear I have is that they couldn't be honest with there customer base or at least be good liars, they have put out a very thin tissue of misinformation and far too many holes are getting poked into it.

As it stands GW won't even give an official conformation of wether the material is safe to sand and saw. They have only put out a vague statement saying the miniatures themselves are "safe" and have been tested by an as yet unnamed third party.

Every year in the past GW increased there prices ( in fact usually more than once a year ) and we took it on the chin because we liked the game and the miniatures, but they didn't lie to us or try to enforce a dubious restraint of international trade.

There was wriggle room for a price freeze on metals transferred to resin and room to improve the exchange rate for both canadiens and Australians before the embargo. Small token gestures would shown at least some thought for there customer base and would most likely have headed this all off at the pass.

However GW where too greedy (I will accept too stupid as a possibility) to respect customers enough to make even a token gesture. Respect is a two way respect and GW have lost what respect I had for them.

[wittdooley]

The metal PP starter boxes used to be $39.99. The Plastic Starter boxes are $49.99.

Further, the big PP kits aren't even near the size of a Baneblade. The Gun Carriage isn't even bigger than a Land Raider. At least the Baneblade isn't meant to be used in "regular" games; the Gun Carriage, etc, are. Kinda screws people on a budget, much like competetive M:tG.

I guess I don't get what 'misinformation' you're driving at. Even ForgeWorld Resin is safe to sand and saw. It isn't a carginogenic resin; simply, any small particle you're producing can be a throat, nose, or eye irritant. It's the same reason you wear a mask/glasses when sanding wood.

[BrokenWing]

A baneblade is also twice the size.

Price increases don't bother me much for reasons I have explained in other threads in some detail.

I'm not sure why you're surprised by the lack of information so far. GW always releases big news very slowly, it gets people more interested in it and makes sure they can hype it up more. They're *still* telling us about Storm of Magic.

I wouldn't worry about it being safe, common sense dictates the resin will be safe, considering the average age of their customer base and that Forge World resin is confirmed safe by Forge World. If Forge World can do it I have no idea why GW wouldn't be able to.

I take some of what they say about improved detail with a grain of salt. Will we see giant massive superdoom improvements on current models? Not likely. Will we see giant massive superdoom improvement down the road? I would argue yes. One look at the first model made with Finecast in mind and not just copied over from metal (the haemonculus) will show dramatic improvement, at least it does in my mind. That's where the hype about improved model quality is going.

GW isn't lying, they're doing what companies always do, overselling their product.

[Lane]

Every year in the past GW increased there prices ( in fact usually more than once a year ) and we took it on the chin because we liked the game and the miniatures, but they didn't lie to us or try to enforce a dubious restraint of international trade.

They stated that changes in currency values allowed online retailers to unfairly take advantage of AU customers. Half True, the stronger AU $ made buying at UK prices a better deal. It also means that GW makes even more off the AU customers. Assuming that AU retailers pay half MSRP which is twice the UK price then GW makes twice as much profit off them. GW store in AU make even more profit since the GW get's the full MSRP.

[Denzark]

You know for years the elitist attitude in gaming in this area was Warhammer Fantasy players, but now it's the local Warmachine players who try to convince you how stupid you are for not playing Warmachine (I'm sorry, I don't find warmachine appealing at all)and apparently that has carried over to the internet as well. Our local store carries both products and I keep an eye on Warmachine models and pricing, and I have no idea where he's getting this "lower prices" line. When GW starts charging $85 for a metal horse drawn wagon, let me know.

I concur. I like something a bit more complex than 'kill my opponent's warcaster'.

[MarneusCalgar]

Well, I´ll wait until May 28th to see this resin miniatures by hand and then judge them, but now I can tell you that I already have all the miniatures I need for my Space Puppies and Ultramarines´s armies...

[Duke Rich]

Was talking to some GW staff today and heard a few good things.
Over the next week, all their metal stock is being sent back to head office, and then over time they will be replaced with the new finecast models (this includes blister packs, half metal half plastic boxes and the like). Most (if not all, they weren't specific, which was fair enough, more surprises for us) will be released this Saturday, and then the odd few within the next months.
The way the models are made, is very similar to the Warmachine models.
Some of the Finecast stuff is only more expensive than it's original metal release, because they were having a general price increase anyway (Also, paper codecies going to £20 and hardback, £25, roughly).

Oh, one last thing. You've all seen at least some of the finecast models already. The 'Eavy Metal team have been using them for showcase stuff the past couple years. It's taken GW A LOT of time and effort to completely redo their metal stock. That's why it might be a bit more expensive, they've damn well re made half their models.

Also, they bounce...?

[Kawauso]

Bouncing sounds great.

I've dropped tons of plastic models, and they bounce along the floor, picking up a bit of dust maybe...but you know what? They virtually never break (if they do, it's a quick fix) and I've never had paint flake off this way.

I'm tired of metal models being knocked over and shattering into their constituent bitz, requiring a lot of work to fix up again, as well as having the paint flake off.

As far as I'm concerned, bring on the resin! Zoanthropes will be the first thing I try to rotate out of metal, followed by anyone with a jump pack.

I mean, I could do without the price hikes, but...eh, couldn't we all?

[Duke Rich]

Prices raising are only ever fun to the people doing the raising :/ Oh, well, it won't stop me buying anything outright from them. I don't care if I stop playing, I just really want to get some Necron Wraiths that don't break when I walk past them.

And the bouncing is good. Apparently what they did was have the metal and resin version of Mephiston. Dropped the metal one from the top of a ladder and it broke. Dropped the resin one from the same height, and it just bounced and rolled off, no damage done.

[DrifterUK]

Was talking to some GW staff today and heard a few good things.
Over the next week, all their metal stock is being sent back to head office, and then over time they will be replaced with the new finecast models (this includes blister packs, half metal half plastic boxes and the like). Most (if not all, they weren't specific, which was fair enough, more surprises for us) will be released this Saturday, and then the odd few within the next months.
The way the models are made, is very similar to the Warmachine models.
Some of the Finecast stuff is only more expensive than it's original metal release, because they were having a general price increase anyway (Also, paper codecies going to £20 and hardback, £25, roughly).

Oh, one last thing. You've all seen at least some of the finecast models already. The 'Eavy Metal team have been using them for showcase stuff the past couple years. It's taken GW A LOT of time and effort to completely redo their metal stock. That's why it might be a bit more expensive, they've damn well re made half their models.

Also, they bounce...?

I wonder what theyre going to do with all the metal figures. Id love them to sell them all at low prices, but I guess its more likely theyll melt them down and sell the raw metal or something

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

When GW starts charging $85 for a metal horse drawn wagon, let me know.

The Dark Elf War Hydra is $96 Australian, and look at the prices of the Great Daemons.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

The Blood Knights are already $150 Australian, are GW seriously going to ask in excess of that for five finely sculpted knights? Jesus, are people that stupid to pay that amount of money for them?

[Cyberscape7]

The Blood Knights are already $150 Australian, are GW seriously going to ask in excess of that for five finely sculpted knights? Jesus, are people that stupid to pay that amount of money for them?

Yes. Yes they are...

[Duke Rich]

I wonder what theyre going to do with all the metal figures. Id love them to sell them all at low prices, but I guess its more likely theyll melt them down and sell the raw metal or something

I think what they're doing with them is having the old metal stuff only available via their online store and mail order until they're all finally gone.

[eldargal]

There really is no excuse for Australian prices, but I do wonder if their prices will go up? the spreadsheets I've seen for both price rises (resin and the other one) only mention GBP, USD and CAD. It would be niceif they figure Australians are paying enough already.:rolleyes:

[BrokenWing]

I can only go off of prices here, I'm not going to get into an international monetary policy argument.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

I can only go off of prices here, I'm not going to get into an international monetary policy argument.

I assume you were talking about the Khador Gun Carriage, which is - exchange rate aside - still is not too more expensive than the war hydra or greater daemons. Plus, you have neglected to mention that the carriage is pretty damn big.

Nice avatar by the way :) Massive Pertwee fan.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

No SoB miniatures either ......hmmmmmmm

[Maelstorm]

Between buying a khador starter box in metal for myself, then a plastic/resin one for a commission shortly after the change it had dropped by just over a fiver in price. Both were bought from the same retailer a couple of months apart and it was the same for all the starter boxes.

A few thoughts from a long-long-long time 40k player (25+ years of Warhammer 40k, 15k+ points of Space Marines, 10k+ points of Necrons):

I bought a starter box of Warmachine figures at my FLGS last week for $35 US (basic rules included). A Space Marine "Starter Box" is currently over $90US and heading North of $100US next week (same FLGS).

A Warmachine starter box is competitive with any other force of the same points. The lack of Codex balance in 40k is well documented here on BOLS. Imperial Guard Wallet-Hammer for the win, or Space Wolves Long-Fang spam for the win...

The size of a standard 15-25 point Warmachine battle at the shop is 5-15 figures or between $50-$100 in models. Jump up to a "big" 35 point game and you'd have to stretch to hit more than $200 in models in one army.

A typical 40k battle at 1,500 points is around 25-35 models on the table, pushing $300-$400. A "simple" 3,000 point Apoc game can have $500-$1,000 in models on the table for one army.

The new Warmachine Gun Carriage model is one of largest model in Warmachine (think Forge World for 40k) and rolls in at under $60 US. Every single 40k Codex has at least one $66 model (more $$ next week). Buying 3 simple Rhinos will put you at $100US with tax.

I've had a love-annoyed relationship with 40k for so many years. It's great to be able to step away and try something new - and not break the bank. I'm not rushing to ebay to unload my 40k armies, but I'll jump ship for a while and see if Privateer Press treats it's customers as roughly as Games Workshop does.

I think of GW as the little old man runing to the edge of his porch, shaking his cane at the young kids playing new games in his yard. The new kids have some pretty cool toys we didn't have when we were young. I'm ready to take a look at them...

[Lancel]

No SoB miniatures either ......hmmmmmmm

Yep. I wish we could ordain more out of that than we can. The good reason is that they're putting off the Sisters so they can re-release big chunks of the line in plastic/resin. The bad reason is that the Sisters just aren't popular enough to warrant getting made in resin this early and GW has plenty of metal stock on them. I doubt many independent retailers stock them. Either way, it's amazing that the Sisters just got made even more obsolete. Now they're all made of a material that Games Workshop doesn't even use anymore. Nice.

Still, if GW does come out with any resin Sisters I'd buy some just to have them.

[Gotthammer]

The size of a standard 15-25 point Warmachine battle at the shop is 5-15 figures or between $50-$100 in models. Jump up to a "big" 35 point game and you'd have to stretch to hit more than $200 in models in one army.

And a 400pt Combat Patrol game of 40k is only around $150 for 20 or so guys, depending how you build your list. I made a Khador 35pt list with 25 infantry and two jacks, for $312.86.
I grabbed a couple of 35pt lists of this forum and they come out at $238 and $262 each.


A typical 40k battle at 1,500 points is around 25-35 models on the table, pushing $300-$400. A "simple" 3,000 point Apoc game can have $500-$1,000 in models on the table for one army.

And if I was to play a game of Warmachine with 30 odd guys, it's going to cost a lot more than a game with ten guys. And if I wanted to play a game of WarmaHordes with the same number of models as I do in Apoc, I'm sure it'd cost just as much (and aren't they releasing an expansion for 300pt+ games soon anyways?).

Pointing out that a game designed to work with very few minis is cheaper to play than a game designed for larger battles is a poor argument - it's like arguing a Cheeseburger is better than a Big Mac purely because it's less money, and if you get the Big Mac with a drink and chips it's even more expensive!

Sometimes the smaller game is just as good, or better even, and the different playstyles and philosopies behind them create variety in the gaming environment. But cost wise on a model to model basis there's not a huge price differential between the two companies on a per dude basis (PP, with all the metal, can in fact be much worse).
The only difference is in characters, where GW does charge more due to people only needing to buy one or two. But thanks to GW's policy on conversions, counts-as and the wealth of parts from the plastic kits its a fairly easy task to convert chracters as needed to avoid the premium.



The new Warmachine Gun Carriage model is one of largest model in Warmachine (think Forge World for 40k) and rolls in at under $60 US.

It's listed with a RRP of $84.99 on PP's website. You'd need to be getting 30% off rrp to make it $59.49.



Every single 40k Codex has at least one $66 model (more $$ next week). Buying 3 simple Rhinos will put you at $100US with tax.

Buying three heavy 'jack kits costs $105 and they're about the same size. Sure the Rhino isn't as exciting as a big smashy robot, but it's still a reasonably complex and detailed model kit.

[wittdooley]

\

It's listed with a RRP of $84.99 on PP's website. You'd need to be getting 30% off rrp to make it $59.49.



Yeah, let me know where you're getting it for $60. I'll jump on that ship.

People seem to forget how expensive some of the Privateer Units can be, too. The Ogryn Assault Corps, for 5 models, are $75 and in metal. I'm not saying they're not cool or whatever, but these pricing comparisons are silly.

A 35 point Trollbloods list is hella expensive:

Borka Kegslayer5
Troll Axer6
Earthborn Dire Troll10
Krielstone Bearer and 5 Stone Scribes43
Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder1
Trollkin Champions (Leader and 4 Grunts)106
Skaldi Bonehammer3
Fell Caller Hero3
Trollkin Champion Hero3

=$270 MSRP.

It's not super expensive, but it isn't cheap....

[Gir]

It may just be me, but when I compare the UK price of 40k and Warmachine models, they seem to be pretty much the same.

[eldargal]

The new Finecast TK Ushabti are cheaper than the old metals, that is a hopeful sign. Down £3.50 to ten pounds a model in a box of three. Unfortunately it seems Grotesques will be around £12 each.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

It may just be me, but when I compare the UK price of 40k and Warmachine models, they seem to be pretty much the same.

True, but you do need less of Warmachine models.

[Lockark]

The new Finecast TK Ushabti are cheaper than the old metals, that is a hopeful sign. Down £3.50 to ten pounds a model in a box of three. Unfortunately it seems Grotesques will be around £12 each.

Hopefully Oygrn and other large Metals can see similar price drops.
=/

Considering the Hive Tyrant has gone up thow, leaves me hesitant to get my hopes up.

[wittdooley]

I'm interested in some of the new boxes. Skaven Jezzails, for instance, used to be sold as a 1 model blister for like, 12 bucks. Now, it's a $49.50 boxed set. I wonder how many are going to be in there. At that price, I'm hoping 6, as it will allow two squads of Jezzails.

I'm also intrigued regarding the Space Marine Veteran Squads. They went up in price significantly; with that in mind, I have trouble believing that they are staying as a 5-man squad.

[Malachi]

Most people have probably already read this, but just in case you didn't, this is what the GW blog had to say about the resin used in FineCast models:

Safety: Citadel Finecast is made from our own 'secret recipe'; it's absolutely safe and does not require you to wear a face mask. The 12+ on our packaging is about the skill and craft required to do our hobby, not about the material. We make sure that all our products are tested by external professionals and Citadel Finecast is no exception.

I'm sure there's going to be people that don't believe them, but I figured that GW wouldn't redo all those models until they had gotten (or created, by the sounds of it) a material that was indeed safe to be sold as "toys" in retail stores.

[BrokenWing]

At this point I'd believe there are people who think GW is intentionally out to poison their children.

[eldargal]

What amuses me is the people who seem to think we are taking it on trust from GW, like they would release a model that doesn't comply with safety standards, face a total recall (ha) and positive fine+damages.:rolleyes:

[eldargal]

Finecast is up on GW Website (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=&section=&pIndex=0&aId=16600008a&start=1&multiPageMode=true):


If you get a chance to visit a GW store, check out the Eldar Avatar, it looks ridiculously good compared to metal. The old squished up detail seems less cramped.

[BrokenWing]

I wish I could but our local gaming store doesn't intend to bring any blisters in at all. He doesn't sell metal ones very well, so he's decided to only carry Finecast on order...which kind of sucks. He could at least get a display model.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

Finecast is up on GW Website (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=&section=&pIndex=0&aId=16600008a&start=1&multiPageMode=true):


If you get a chance to visit a GW store, check out the Eldar Avatar, it looks ridiculously good compared to metal. The old squished up detail seems less cramped.

The new Zoanthrope looks brilliant.

[daboarder]

Finecast is up on GW Website (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=&section=&pIndex=0&aId=16600008a&start=1&multiPageMode=true):


If you get a chance to visit a GW store, check out the Eldar Avatar, it looks ridiculously good compared to metal. The old squished up detail seems less cramped.

That could just be the paint job, the old studio avatar was painted back in the 90's and EVERYONES painting skills have come along way since then including heavy metal team. Still a nice sculpt, but for roughly 20 bucks more you get the forgeworld one.

[eldargal]

No I handled an unprimed resin one at a store last night, it sees much less cramped and squished together, particularly the torso. I used to really dislike the GW model compared to the FW sculpts, but it really does seem much better in resin. I guess it might have something to do with the resin not shrinking and compressing the detail or something but I didn't think it could shrink that much.

[Wildeybeast]

So, I picked up my first fine cast minis today (Hive Tyrant, Librarian and Empire Captain) and I have to say I'm really impressed. They at least as good quality, if not better than the metals. They are really light (they feel fractionally lighter than a plastic mini of similar size), stick together incredibly well and quickly with superglue and are pretty bendy, which opens up a fair bit of scope for conversions. The only draw back is the they had a fair bit of flashing on them, particularly the captain, but that was cleaned off easily enough. In short, they live up to everything GW has told us about them.

Oh, and the guy in store told me that GW will eventually re-release every metal mini they currently do in finecast, the ones announced so far are just the first wave. I neglected to aks if this included the speicalist games range, but here's hoping. The website now has a list of all the finecast currently avaliable http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=&pIndex=0&aId=16600008a&multiPageMode=true&start=1 Interesting to see that we are currently on rations due to limited stock, hopefully that will change soon enough.

[daboarder]

No I handled an unprimed resin one at a store last night, it sees much less cramped and squished together, particularly the torso. I used to really dislike the GW model compared to the FW sculpts, but it really does seem much better in resin. I guess it might have something to do with the resin not shrinking and compressing the detail or something but I didn't think it could shrink that much.


Oh you'd be surprised how much metal distorts between liquid and solid phases, it alters not just physically but chemically as well.....anyway its nice to hear that there is some improvements in the new medium.....Of course I'm not buying it but you damned well make it tempting.

[Lord Castellan]

My first Finecast model was miscast to the point where the model has no left arm. Much as I love the new models and the switch this does very little to impress.

[warpcrafter]

I picked up a Hive Guard today, and besides the price increase, I was impressed. No air bubbles, no miscasting and all the parts fit perfectly. Now I just wonder how long Forge World has until they are assimilated by Citadel.

[Wildeybeast]

Now I just wonder how long Forge World has until they are assimilated by Citadel.

I'm fairly sure that won't happen. GW has developed a resin that is different from that used by Forgeworld, apparently independently of Forgeworld. Forgeworld caters for specialist models which have a limited appeal, hence the higher price cost for most FW minis, so there would seem little sense in citadel taking them over. GW is by all accounts happy with the work FW is doing and is content to let them get on without any interference.

[Ghost of War]

So I took a look at an Ork Painboy down at our local shop. The 1st FineCast(tm) item to show up. It looks EXACTLY like FW resin. All the way to the fill feed flash and resin block left overs..

Looks a bit fragile and chip prone. Now you can not worry about dropping a metal model and chipping it. It will just shatter :P

Has anyone washed one up (does it require the same rigous washing methods that FW resin does?) and cleaned it up? Does the resin powder when you give it a light sanding? If so.. thats a bad sign. and a health hazard.

Now IF that is true.. It makes me laugh

1. Dumb down rules and point all codex to USRs to invite younger players into the fold
2. Increase prices like clockwork to make it so those kids cant buy the models
3. New books are giving up on USRs in may places and are ripe with special rules ala the previous rules edition.
4. In comes a type of resin - which could be potentially non kid friendly if it powders..

Can you tell there was a couple Re-Orgs and changes in managers over the last few years? Usually this kind of confused chaotic change .. results in a change of hands.. or two

On the plus side.. (provided the new models are not hazardous)... they quality is very very nice.

[Defenestratus]

So I took a look at an Ork Painboy down at our local shop. The 1st FineCast(tm) item to show up. It looks EXACTLY like FW resin. All the way to the fill feed flash and resin block left overs..

Looks a bit fragile and chip prone. Now you can not worry about dropping a metal model and chipping it. It will just shatter :P

Has anyone washed one up (does it require the same rigous washing methods that FW resin does?) and cleaned it up? Does the resin powder when you give it a light sanding? If so.. thats a bad sign. and a health hazard.

Now IF that is true.. It makes me laugh

1. Dumb down rules and point all codex to USRs to invite younger players into the fold
2. Increase prices like clockwork to make it so those kids cant buy the models
3. New books are giving up on USRs in may places and are ripe with special rules ala the previous rules edition.
4. In comes a type of resin - which could be potentially non kid friendly if it powders..

Can you tell there was a couple Re-Orgs and changes in managers over the last few years? Usually this kind of confused chaotic change .. results in a change of hands.. or two

On the plus side.. (provided the new models are not hazardous)... they quality is very very nice.

This stuff is about as far as you can get from FW resin. Its lighter, bendier and softer.

Been breathing it in all morning and I'm still alive.

(the slots need to be filed to fit in the bases I've found)

As for washing them.... none of that either. I was able to brush on foundation right on the resin and it went on just fine.

[wittdooley]

This stuff is about as far as you can get from FW resin. Its lighter, bendier and softer.

Been breathing it in all morning and I'm still alive.

(the slots need to be filed to fit in the bases I've found)

As for washing them.... none of that either. I was able to brush on foundation right on the resin and it went on just fine.

Seconded. If I'm not mistaken, I believe GW made a point to state that you didn't have to wash them.

And FWIW, my Deathmaster Snikch bounced off the floor when I dropped him. I got a kick out of that.

[Kawauso]

I haven't gotten a Finecast model yet, Ghost, so I can't speak from experience...
But from what I understand Finecast models are soft/flexible enough that you can bend pieces/drop them and they will suffer little to no damage; they won't shatter like FW resin.

Hell, just look at the pic on that article on the GW site where they bend the Skulltaker's sword. No way you could do that with FW resin.

[Lemt]

As far as I've heard, you don't have to prime them either. Although I probably will.

Has anyone dropped one yet? I want to know what happens to a dropped mini before the scientific method gets the better of me.

[wittdooley]

Read Above. He bounced. Though, to be fair, it's a small mini. I'm interested to see what happens with a larger one.

[Kawauso]

I think eldargal posted somewhere about her brother or cousin throwing Azhag the Slaughterer out a window or something, and all that happened was a wing came off.

[Gotthammer]

SotonShades has dropped his techmarine (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?p=140924) a couple of times with no ill-effects.

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

I think eldargal posted somewhere about her brother or cousin throwing Azhag the Slaughterer out a window or something, and all that happened was a wing came off.

It's awesome it survived... But what would possess you to do that :|?

[Lockark]

Seconded. If I'm not mistaken, I believe GW made a point to state that you didn't have to wash them.

And FWIW, my Deathmaster Snikch bounced off the floor when I dropped him. I got a kick out of that.


I believe it was suggested that you should wash them, and that primer was not needed, Just slap on foundations and go. The idea being that with out haveing to prim them, you are able to get out more of the details.

[eldargal]

It was my brother, he threw it out of his second storey bedroom window. It did land on lawn to be fair, but it bounced off some of the stonework on the way down. The wings came off and there was a bit of distortion but it was bent back into shape and glued together again with no problems? As to why? Who knows why boys do such things.:rolleyes:


It's awesome it survived... But what would possess you to do that :|?

[Docmani]

I finally got my hands on one of these yesterday.

Air bubbles? Yes, some. A bit of green stuff and they went away.

Mold lines/flash? Yes, but I was able to clean it fairly quickly with an exacto (as opposed to my collection of files).

The detail is definately above the metal counterpart (I got a Terminator Librarian). There are details which are simply washed out on the metal one.

Add to that you don't have to go searching for every little piece of metal vent (You know, those little squiggly pieces of metal you have to trim... the ones you try as you might to find every one, but always see one you missed right after you've primed the model....)

The overall model cleanup time was signficantly less than metal. The resin parts also hold together alot better with super glue than metal with no pinning required.

Price issues aside (which is a seperate issue), I'd have to say I'm sold on these.

For those that still love metal, don't dispair. You'll be able to buy mine on eBay.... :)

[Deadlift]

I have just taken delivery of my 1st finecast, I have bought myself the Libby in TDA. All I can say is wow :). I really can see the finer detail is much crisper and just the ease of which I will be able to convert this model is to my liking.
I will be honest to me the extra cost is worth it to have a far crisper model which will be much easier to work with.
I just need someone to kidnap my kids tomorrow so I can get started on it.

[Demonus]

forgive me if this has been mentioned, but my friend said the new finecast minis do not come with bases. is this true? if so, what kind of marketing genius came up with that? Forrest Gump?

[wittdooley]

All of mine have come with bases...

[StraightSilver]

Lots of the clam packs are missing the slotta bases, this was obviously not intentional but I know of one store whose entire stock had this problem.

This is purely because the new fine cast stock was rushed out to stores so hopefully as things calm down there will be better quality control, but if your fine cast model is missing its base just take it back and you should be able to exchange it.

[Demonus]

excellent. as i had hoped. i will just wait a bit til it gets worked out, then buy some stuff. thanks :)

[eldargal]

Come to think of it, my Succubus didn't come with a base.:rolleyes: Not much of an issue as I have around two hundred spares.

[HsojVvad]

I was finally at a GW store since I was in the area. The 2 closet to me closed down last year and the year before. I looked at the Fine Casts and WoW I am impressed.

The detail is excellent. Mind you I was looking through the packaging so I never got a chance to touch them or hold them and see how brittle or soft they were as others have said.

I didn't really see any deformaties from what I have seen but again through packaging could have easily been missed, but the detail is great.

Just wish the prices were not so high. I have a hard time justifying paying $30 before taxes for one mini while $10 bucks more, I can get 5 minis for almost the same price.

[wittdooley]

I was finally at a GW store since I was in the area. The 2 closet to me closed down last year and the year before. I looked at the Fine Casts and WoW I am impressed.

The detail is excellent. Mind you I was looking through the packaging so I never got a chance to touch them or hold them and see how brittle or soft they were as others have said.

I didn't really see any deformaties from what I have seen but again through packaging could have easily been missed, but the detail is great.

Just wish the prices were not so high. I have a hard time justifying paying $30 before taxes for one mini while $10 bucks more, I can get 5 minis for almost the same price.

Which ones did you look at? It really seems like there have been a disproportionate number of problems with the Terminator Librarian.

Anyone notice any other models that seem to be having more problems than others?

[Lemt]

All I've seen looked fine. I'm probably going to a GW shop tomorrow, so I'll check to see if the Librarians have problems. Maybe it's just that model that came out bad.

[HsojVvad]

I haven't seen the Librian one in person, but saw the horrible ones on the net. I saw the DA chapter master, they Tyranid Tyrant Guard, just looked so sweet.

I looked at another one, then I had to make sure my son wasn't touching anything else so I stopped looking. But the 2 I looked at closely wanted me to buy them, but $60 for 2 minis I just can't justify when I can get 5 or 10 minis for that price.

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

It was my brother, he threw it out of his second storey bedroom window. It did land on lawn to be fair, but it bounced off some of the stonework on the way down. The wings came off and there was a bit of distortion but it was bent back into shape and glued together again with no problems? As to why? Who knows why boys do such things.:rolleyes:

You seem to be a crazy bunch of people (mean't in the nicest possible way :D)... Thats fricking amazing that it bounced, shows my succubus was a bit pathetic, I dropped her from about 2 inches and her Skull bananza thingy/Trophy rack snapped (super glued back on fine)

[Gir]

I bought an autrach yesterday to use as my RT character, and I was very impressed. Took less time to clean up then a metal model, glued in seconds, and it would not come apart. Was very light and flexible. My friends and I ended up throwing it around the room to see what would happen. Nothing. Nothing happened. It was still perfect after 30 minutes of heavy punishment.

This stuff is ******* awesome, and I will be replacing every metal model in my army with it. I also hope forgeworld decide to use it in the future.

[Loken]

We are all clear that RESIN = PLASTIC.

And that Finecast are injection molded, just like every other plastic kit. And that GW has now found a way to charge ridiculous prices for injection molded plastic.

[eldargal]

It is actually a plasticised resin similar to their plastic, that is tue. But it is a different formula with entirely different properties. They are the same in the same way iron and copper are the same.

[addamsfamily36]

We are all clear that RESIN = PLASTIC.

And that Finecast are injection molded, just like every other plastic kit. And that GW has now found a way to charge ridiculous prices for injection molded plastic.

Well, plastic as a material doesn't really exist. Many materials come under the grouping of Plastic by their qualities and structure, but there is no such thing as actual plastic. Only materials, commonly polymers that are defined as plastics due to their plasticity and ability to be moulded etc.

There are also many many different types of resin, this "new fine cast range" for instance uses a secret formula.

These miniatures are clearly not Injection moulded like every other plastic kit beacuse that would cost a fortune!!:eek:

The mould for a GW multi part plastic kit is a considerable cost.

these resin's are cast either from new silicone moulds or modified moulds from the original metals. The technique might be considered "injection due to injecting the resin, but the process's between this and Gw's "plastic" kits are extremely different.

[Loken]

these resin's are cast either from new silicone moulds or modified moulds from the original metals. The technique might be considered "injection due to injecting the resin, but the process's between this and Gw's "plastic" kits are extremely different.

And you know this how?

First, the molds are 100% new and have nothing to do with the old molds. They can't, because the old molds are entirely different and used for different materials and spun-cast.

Second how do you know this is not standard injection molding? It clearly looks like a standard injection mold.

[eldargal]

From what we have heard from a few people in the know on Warseer, the old moulds have been re-tooled for resin injection. It isn't the same as plastic injection as resin behaves differently when liquid. However it seems that new mould have been produced using the original resin master sculpts as well.

Regardless, saying that plastic = resin and that the Finecast miniatures are the same as the plastic miniatures is a gross simplification and downright wrong in some aspects. The moulds for the resin miniatures are rubber/silicon, not tooled steel for a start. The materials themselves are related but very different formulations.

[Necron2.0]

Well, here's a positive thing. A lot of people I've heard use pinesol to strip paint from minis. I've also heard that pinesol can be bad on plastic (never tried it myself, so don't know from personal experience). On a lark, just to see what it would do, I soaked part of a sprue in pinesol for 12 hours. From what I could tell, there didn't seem to be any ill effect on the resin.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

The GW blackshirt dude at my local store, who reckons he's had experience in casting with GW says they are silicone moulds remade from the original master sculpts, which makes sense. I finally got a Castellan Crowe in Finecast yesterday - he has one air bubble out of sight under his arm, so in light of the beasting I took recently on BOLS, I decided that was probably an ok compromise. The Space Marine Term Librarian was still showing lots of defects, and the GW guy opened five clampacks, all showing a lot of detail obscuring bubbles and one fault in common. He reckons they need to put in a few more vents to allow the air to escape on this mould. He says all the Librarians he sold got returned.
I guess it's a good learning curve for GW in terms of sculpting for new Finecast miniatures (I STILL say they have no quality control and should have spent more time mastering the casting before releasing this new range, but hey).
In the meantime, I finally got lucky and have a great model ready to paint.

[addamsfamily36]

And you know this how?

First, the molds are 100% new and have nothing to do with the old molds. They can't, because the old molds are entirely different and used for different materials and spun-cast.

Second how do you know this is not standard injection molding? It clearly looks like a standard injection mold.

I cant give you any 100 percent solid proof, neither can you, but i can share my knowledge on injection moulding and plastics from being a product designer.

Although Resin's can be used in an injection mould process similar to that used to create GW's plastic kits, the die or steel mould used in that process has a considerable cost attached to it.

The process might have changed and new moulds made (like i speculated earlier either in this thread or another one), but they are (and i would happily bet my own house on this) definitely not cast using the same method or types of moulds associated with their plastic kits.

The type of resin used, probably a polyurethane blend (or similar) is not a common material seen in injection moulding. It is however common with silicone moulds and casting.

[wittdooley]

The GW blackshirt dude at my local store, who reckons he's had experience in casting with GW says they are silicone moulds remade from the original master sculpts, which makes sense. I finally got a Castellan Crowe in Finecast yesterday - he has one air bubble out of sight under his arm, so in light of the beasting I took recently on BOLS, I decided that was probably an ok compromise. The Space Marine Term Librarian was still showing lots of defects, and the GW guy opened five clampacks, all showing a lot of detail obscuring bubbles and one fault in common. He reckons they need to put in a few more vents to allow the air to escape on this mould. He says all the Librarians he sold got returned.
I guess it's a good learning curve for GW in terms of sculpting for new Finecast miniatures (I STILL say they have no quality control and should have spent more time mastering the casting before releasing this new range, but hey).
In the meantime, I finally got lucky and have a great model ready to paint.

Again, it seems a vast amount of the problems that are being reported are with said Terminator Librarian. I blame his psychic acumen for messing up the mold process.

[Daemonette666]

ANNND GW have probably just priced themselves out of Australia, I know that I was one of the last baring the "kiddies" who would by from the Sydney store, lets just say thats done now.
daboarder has it right. Resin miniatures, apart from the supposed health risks GW employees used to spout everytime I went into their shop in Macarthur NSW with a Forge World miniature I wanted to work on, have a reputation for being very brittle and having trouble with air bubbles and mould defects.

If they were supposed to reduce costs, as the resin was supposed to be cheaper than white metal as I was told in a GW store a month ago (did not buy any miniatures then either), then why the sudden change of tact by staff who now say it is because the quality is better and the resin cost more? An Abaddon in Metal at the local gaming shop costs $29.00. In Resin it costs $39.00 at both the local store and at GW shop. The Tyranid Hive Tyrant is £36.00 which is $96.00 in Australia. Working on the fact that the Vrock daemon from Ultraforge is 50% larger than the Tyranid Hive Tyrant, and cost $100.00. A GW model of similar size would roughly cost $150.00.

I have a picture of my recently painted Ultraforge miniature to show the quality of their product. I am not the best painter out there, but you can see the casting is as fine a detail at the new GW range.

http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy251/Daemonette666/DaemonSorcerorLord.jpg

This took me about 8 hours to build and paint. The base was finished off after this photo was taken, and grass, and flowers were put on and the model spray varnished to protect it. All in all, I do not think GW could provide a better product for the same low price tag of AU$100.00. Certainly not at their current inflated prices.

[Denzark]

I had my first look today. I had a look at that axe wielding BA looney (sanguinor?) as people said the armour was 'crisp' on the msucles. It was admittedly. One of the 2 sprues in the shop, the hands had not materialised on the bottom of the axe.

The infamous Librarian seemed to have buckets of flash and little bits and bobs on it. The closest thing i can relate it to is my 10-year old Staffordshire Bull Terrier who seems to be getting allsorts of fleshy attachments in her old age (she smells like a nurgle spawn when she farts so it may be some bolt of change or other).

I liked the Abaddon although whilst yes the detail was clearER on the chains, other bits had far mor dangly add-ons and flash that would need to be trimmed.

Admittedley there seemed to be less moulding lines, but far more off shoots and danglies.

I concede there may be initial QC issues but they should have boxed them off before the release in my opinion. Rersin may be easier to clean than metal but if there is twice the cleaning to do its no benefit.

Jury still out with me.

[eldargal]

Via Warseer, I've emboldened the more interesting statement (in my opinion):

Hi All,
So here is the update as promised.
I met with the GW Australia General Manager and GW Australia Senior Regional Manager today. Both guys were generous with their time and generous in travelling out from Ingleburn to see me in Hornsby.
At the outset of the meeting I was fairly certain that ultimately these guys were not directly responsible for the prices of GW products here in Australia and by the end of the meeting I was completely certain that this was the case. In reality it is GW UK headquarters that sets the prices for each country/region. They do this based on the numbers provided to them from the previous year. These numbers take into account wages, store rental (which seems to be a pretty big cost as long as GW stay in Westfield-esque shopping malls), cost of shipping etc.
The yearly price increase of approx. 5% is based on the annual increase of rental/wages etc going up by 5%. Now I stated that I understand that prices need to go up sooner or later (I am not too sure too many of us wouldn’t have a wage increase each year?) but what my/our main issue is the price disparity between us and the UK & US. I used the example of Vampire Count Blood Knights costing $165AUD here in Oz and only costing $99USD in the US. Clearly the US would have the same costs of wages, store rental, shipping etc so why the price difference?
This was the question that the guys really couldn’t answer and ultimately they can’t, as it is the UK people that set the price.
They were however, completely aware of how we are currently feeling and aware of the “hard pill we have had to swallow” (their words) in what is an essential 45% increase in price with the switch off of Maelstrom/Wayland and the regular 5% annual increase. Which I thought was a nice way to sum up what has happened for us. We were able to get GW products at Maelstrom prices and now because we can’t them anymore and have to pay Australian/New Zealand prices we have had a 45% increase overnight.
In light of what they were saying about the cost of running stores, I didn’t want to just come with complaints but suggestions for ways forward as well. One suggestion I did make was to have less stores, and bigger ones that are offsite from shopping malls. Essentially, stores with more floor space to play/paint etc. I believe that it is mainly hobbyists that grow the hobby and not foot traffic into a store and therefore I think that if they build it, we will come (and bring our mates with us!).
They did also explain to me that the stores are mainly there to introduce people into the hobby and not necessarily providing as much for the established gamer. Hence, us being able to quite happy buy our products from Maelstrom etc as we are only needing minis at our stage and not advice on how to play/build/paint etc. However, they were also aware of the need to not ignore the established gaming community (particularly when I added the point of established gamers recruiting new gamers).
My response to this was that most new gamers I know have come into the hobby through their friends (ie us!) and that if we are no longer in the hobby then their biggest recruitment stream will be gone.
I was also able to gain some insights into the price increase for the Finecast range and it would seem clear that it has cost GW tens of millions of pounds to remake the moulds, develop the technology to mix resin and plastic etc. There is about 2000 employees at GW HQ, many of whom are involved in the production of miniatures.
Despite the reasons they offered me (all of which were legitimate to a greater or lesser degree) I ultimately made the point that the hobby is becoming unaffordable for many of us here due to the current prices and that if something isn’t done one way or another, many of us will have to find something else to do with our time/money (even though many of us don’t want to find something else to do with our time/money!).
One of the points that I made which did have some impact was the simple maths of 1200 people each spending $1000 somewhere else each year (I was conservative in my estimate) equals $1.2 million dollars. A significant amount of sales I am sure you will agree!

I might add that throughout the meeting they were both polite, courteous and helpful. They only offered reasons when it was appropriate and helpful to shed light on things and when they didn’t have a response to issues I raised because they were fair points or because they were unable to answer them, they diligently noted them down to pass them higher up the chain.
All in all I felt I was able to represent our plight, be heard and appreciated and ensure that dialogue will continue into the future. The GM will be meeting with his boss from the UK in a couple of weeks and be talking a lot about our concerns and I look forward to hearing back from him about that meeting.
I would also add that they have been reading our little group here on FB so I would ask people to keep that in mind and remember that they are people trying to do a job too. It was disappointing to hear about how some of the gaming community have treated GW staff these pasts couple of weeks and I would hope that this great bunch is above that kind of stuff.

I am sure I have forgotten some things we discussed and I am sure you have a bunch of questions out of what I have written. Please keep in mind that I have a family and fulltime job and am not chained to FB all day, so please be patient in waiting for a response etc.

In other news, I am not sure I am going to be able to meet with Mark Wells in July as the cost is prohibitively high for myself and my wife to get to the UK (about $2800 each just for the flight). Therefore I will have to meet with him in October when he comes out here for Games Day.
Thanks everyone. Keep voicing your opinions in clear, objective and civilised ways and keep up the good fight!

[wittdooley]

I had my first look today. I had a look at that axe wielding BA looney (sanguinor?) as people said the armour was 'crisp' on the msucles. It was admittedly. One of the 2 sprues in the shop, the hands had not materialised on the bottom of the axe.

The infamous Librarian seemed to have buckets of flash and little bits and bobs on it. The closest thing i can relate it to is my 10-year old Staffordshire Bull Terrier who seems to be getting allsorts of fleshy attachments in her old age (she smells like a nurgle spawn when she farts so it may be some bolt of change or other).

I liked the Abaddon although whilst yes the detail was clearER on the chains, other bits had far mor dangly add-ons and flash that would need to be trimmed.

Admittedley there seemed to be less moulding lines, but far more off shoots and danglies.

I concede there may be initial QC issues but they should have boxed them off before the release in my opinion. Rersin may be easier to clean than metal but if there is twice the cleaning to do its no benefit.

Jury still out with me.

From experience working with them, the "flash and little bits and bobs" are, or at least should be, a non issue. They're really easy to clean up (the flash, quite frankly, comes off with a fingernail). It's the miscasting that's more of the issue. Again, I've yet to have any that had any bubbling (a minor issue to me, apparently a huge issue to others) or miscasting, but I've seen plenty of the Librarian in particular that had problems.