GW about to commit Hemisphere suicide.

[xxvaderxx]

GW is forbidding online retailers from selling to the southern hemisphere. This is an attempt not only to try and undermine free market but to force us to buy from our local redshirts who sell this products at no less than 50% mark up from the advertised prices.

In fact, the people that has the licence here in Argentina, are well known for not delivering in time, not delivering at all, and not issuing reimbursements when this happens. I know for a fact that this is also the same with the Brazilian counterpart. If you could do a little segment on the issue, all of us southern players would really appreciate it, this move if it really goes through will absolutely kill the hobby in the region, you need only to look at local forum to find out that people are already discussing alternatives (models and games).

I sent an email to Maelstrom yesterday about this, and this was their answer:



Hi,

Any orders this month will not be effected by the affair,
And its all European stockists not just us,
Sadly I cannot comment on the situation until GW announce it publicly, Which should be Monday,
Sorry,
Many thanks,

----------------------------------------------------------------
On 14 May 2011 17:03,
Subject: sales
Telephone:
Query: There have been rumors going around that you will not be able to sell GW products to my country Argentina any more.

As a long time customer i think i have the right to know if my next purchase planed for the 20th of May, will be possible or if i need to take my business some where else.

Please do not answer a run around i will take that as a confirmation of the rumors.

MAELSTROM GAMES


It would seem that GW has learnt nothing from the last decade+ when their local licence holder has struggled to stay in business. People will simply not pay mark ups to advertised prices, there is a reason we choose to wait over a month for our purchases to arrive over taking a 30 minute trip downtown and getting them back home with us, and it is not people skills on the part of the red shirts (as lousy as they are).

It is sad, 40k is the only game i know of that involves sizable armies and vehicles (in the 28mm scale), but if this does indeed go through it will kill the hobby or it will become "Clones" high time again, as it already happened last decade.

[eldargal]

It is rumoured to be Argentina and Brazil, not the southern hemisphere and it has more to do with Argentinian and Brazilian taxes than GWs profit motive. We don't know the specifics either, GW are also opening a new Asian production facility possibly in Australia in the next 18 months we don't know how that will affect the situation.

You would be better of waiting until the announcement and being in posession of some of the facts before launching an over emotional campaign like this. You know nothing at this point, Maelstrom have told you nothing other than that something is happening and they cannot commend on it until Monday. Get angry then, not now.

[xxvaderxx]

It is rumoured to be Argentina and Brazil, not the southern hemisphere and it has more to do with Argentinian and Brazilian taxes than GWs profit motive. We don't know the specifics either, GW are also opening a new Asian production facility possibly in Australia in the next 18 months we don't know how that will affect the situation.

You would be better of waiting until the announcement and being in posession of some of the facts before launching an over emotional campaign like this. You know nothing at this point, Maelstrom have told you nothing other than that something is happening and they cannot commend on it until Monday. Get angry then, not now.

In that email Maelstrom has pretty much confirmed the rumor with out saying YES. I would rather not have to wait 1 or 2 years to GW get convinced they have shot themselves in the foot, eroding the player base in the region in the meantime, to have the situation normalized.

Internet is Here to stay, So is globalization, it is about time GW gets used to it.

[eldargal]

No they didn't confirm it, they said nothing is affecting sales for the next month, they said something is happening but they did not say whatt. And yes, something is happening with sales to Brazil and Argentina due to taxes (rumoured), not the entire southern hemisphere. We don't know what GW is going to do about it, we don't know anything other than that something is happening. Maelstrom confirmed nothing, they said current orders and orders placed soon won't be affected (so you won't go not ordering thinking they won't arrive) and that they couldn't say what is happening until monday.

[DarkLink]

I don't think you quite understand how the free market works, xxvaderxx. A company (GW) produces a good/service (models, paints and rules), and they sell it to whoever they want. They are under no obligation to let other people in on their products. They don't have to sell through middlemen, they aren't required to allow other people to sell their stuff for them, and they can charge whatever they want for it. It's not like people are going to starve to death if they can't get their plastic dudemen.

The consumer, on the other hand, can just go play warmachine if they don't like GW's prices. It's literally as simple as that. If you think GW's stuff is too expensive, go play a different game and stop complaining about how you think GW is trying to rip you off.

[Necron2.0]

If you think GW's stuff is too expensive, go play a different game and stop complaining about how you think GW is trying to rip you off.

Or use some other minis to represent your army (I've seen at my local shop ... it's an indi GS so GW can go screw), or buy knock-offs and recasts (I've heard tell of people doing that). As mentioned, it's a free market, and free will abounds (be it technically legal or not).

++++

You know, I'm not sure how this whole thing would work, really. Let's say I'm an independent shop owner. GW tells me not to sell to XYZ country. I say, "Right you are, GW," and then turn around and sell anyway. How are they going to prevent it? Once it leaves their production facility and is in my grubby little paws, it's not theirs anymore, it's mine. GW's customers (excusing direct online sales) are the shops, not the individual gamers, and just as individuals can resell their stuff willy-nilly, so too can the shops.

Now, you may say GW's secret police will pick up on that right away and stop selling to me if I don't comply with their wishes, and you would be right ... IF I sold directly, under my own shop's identity. If, however, I set up a front (say, like an Ebay store front), and sold through that, then what can they do? Sure, they'll complain, my shop would get shut down, and I'd immediately open another one. This isn't anything new, I've heard of this happening already. So, again ... I'm not sure this would work.

[Denzark]

Don't cry for me Argentina...

[Spy_Smasher]

ebay?

I'm being serious. Buy from other gamers.

[Lane]

A company (GW) produces a good/service (models, paints and rules), and they sell it to whoever they want. They are under no obligation to let other people in on their products. They don't have to sell through middlemen, they aren't required to allow other people to sell their stuff

However if they allow some people to resell their product and not others they may violate local laws.

Also, if GW were to make radical changes to who they allow to distribute/ sell their product it could affect their business in other ways. IIRC GW classifies their stores as advertising, same with White Dwarf magazine, if the changes in their sales policy forced them to count the stores as retail they may be liable for more taxes.

[xxvaderxx]

Or use some other minis to represent your army (I've seen at my local shop ... it's an indi GS so GW can go screw), or buy knock-offs and recasts (I've heard tell of people doing that). As mentioned, it's a free market, and free will abounds (be it technically legal or not).



I could get knock offs, thats not the point, the point is that for the better part of 2 decades i ve stood behind the company and product instead of buying knock offs or other switching games, and this is the thanks i get, a forced 50-80% price hike. I honestly take this as an issult to their consumer base, sadly this is nothing new for this company.

[wittdooley]

I could get knock offs, thats not the point, the point is that for the better part of 2 decades i ve stood behind the company and product instead of buying knock offs or other switching games, and this is the thanks i get, a forced 50-80% price hike. I honestly take this as an issult to their consumer base, sadly this is nothing new for this company.

You could always move if your plastic dudemens are that important.

[xxvaderxx]

You could always move if your plastic dudemens are that important.

Yeah god forbid a company to limit my options and i complain about it, how inapropiate. Where is this world going to end, the consumer base complains when they get screwed...

[Verilance]

Yeah god forbid a company to limit my options and i complain about it, how inapropiate. Where is this world going to end, the consumer base complains when they get screwed...

if what Eldargal posted as rumour is true


Oh and to quote a reliable rumourmonger that works at GW:


its to do with tax i have it on authority that its trying to be resolved but tax laws to certain countries means gw can be hit with import fines

the japan thing should be sorted when the aus thing is sorted

it seems GW will be forced to pay a tax penalty every time you import your cheaper models, I would try my best to stop it as well

complain to your government as they are the real villains (if there are any) here

[Gotthammer]

What about countries like Australia, where there are no tax penalties, yet we pay 70% more for the same stuff? The Aud is currently at parity with the USD, but prices in the US are in line with the exchange rate. So Australians are paying far more than anywhere else, for no explainable reason.

Exchange rate as of right now:

£1 =

$1.61usd
$1.53aud

thus

£15.50 =

$25.10usd

$23.76aud


Scourges on GW's website:

£15.50
$25usd

$41aud

US prices are in line with the exchange rate, but Australian are jacked up through the roof. It's that disparity that makes no sense. Even if the supposed 15% price cut happens, the set would still be $10 more expensive than the US.

[DadExtraordinaire]

Yeah god forbid a company to limit my options and i complain about it, how inapropiate. Where is this world going to end, the consumer base complains when they get screwed...
If I were you I would stop now before you dig that almighty hole beneath your feet. Seriously, get a grip and stop griping! Brazil will be the next power house after China.

Oh, and the quote about "redshirts" if it is an actual GW store then if they get told to sell a product at a price, they do so, I would be very surprised to see a GW shop sell something not at the corporate price for that region.

[DadExtraordinaire]

What about countries like Australia, where there are no tax penalties, yet we pay 70% more for the same stuff? The Aud is currently at parity with the USD, but prices in the US are in line with the exchange rate. So Australians are paying far more than anywhere else, for no explainable reason.

Exchange rate as of right now:

£1 =

$1.61usd
$1.53aud

thus

£15.50 =

$25.10usd

$23.76aud


Scourges on GW's website:

£15.50
$25usd

$41aud

US prices are in line with the exchange rate, but Australian are jacked up through the roof. It's that disparity that makes no sense. Even if the supposed 15% price cut happens, the set would still be $10 more expensive than the US.
I suspect mate it has something to do with a ship that takes your lovely toys to Oz. Ships cost, and the further they travel the greater the cost........

[Verilance]

A comparable gripe that I have is the cost of books in Canada where I live, despite the fact that the Canadian dollar is worth about $1.03 us we pay at least 3-4 dollars more for books.

it comes down to the fact that I have the option not to buy the books or play the game

case in point Orcs and Goblin Book Can $44.75 US $37.25

[xxvaderxx]

A comparable gripe that I have is the cost of books in Canada where I live, despite the fact that the Canadian dollar is worth about $1.03 us we pay at least 3-4 dollars more for books.

it comes down to the fact that I have the option not to buy the books or play the game

case in point Orcs and Goblin Book Can $44.75 US $37.25

10 state troop box: US 25 dollars, Argentina sold by the licence holder to retailers only 50 dollars.

[Verilance]

10 state troop box: US 25 dollars, Argentina sold by the licence holder to retailers only 50 dollars.

and if the romours were true and you were GW you would happily pay a tax penalty of however much it is every time someone bought imported miniatures from an online store.

You don't have to buy them, no one is forcing you

and where are your models made because that could also factor into the costs as pointed out above

[daboarder]

If they do include Australia and New Zealand in this then yes they can expect a class action they WILL loose.

[xxvaderxx]

If they do include Australia and New Zealand in this then yes they can expect a class action they WILL loose.

You can be sure of it, the cono sur market is nothing compaired to Aus and New, this maneuber is aimed at those markets, we are collateral damage.

[Gir]

I suspect mate it has something to do with a ship that takes your lovely toys to Oz. Ships cost, and the further they travel the greater the cost........

And yet Maelstrom can offer free shipping.

[xxvaderxx]

And yet Maelstrom can offer free shipping.

I am quite sure GW can come up with a "logical" explanation for it. After all logic is only a given set of rules, nowhere is stated that they have to be reasonable or even reality based.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

I am quite sure GW can come up with a "logical" explanation for it. After all logic is only a given set of rules, nowhere is stated that they have to be reasonable or even reality based.

Actually by its very definition logic has to be reality based and reasonable, otherwise it isnt logic.

I mean big companies drive me about as nuts as the next girl, but your freaking out here over a RUMOUR, many of which are often wrong. Methinks you need to calm down, wait for the announcement, see the reasons why, and maybe look to your own government other than the corporation itself. GW is a niche company and doesn't have the lobbying forces to control governments, and I am willing to bet GW would continue to sell the way they have been to you if it wouldn't cost them more than its worth investing in an area. A company has to pay a lot of overhead when it comes to shipping a product, and if they cannot meet the overhead it makes no sense for them to sell to an area under those conditions. They are a company, they are there to provide a product and make a profit off of it, if they cannot do that in an area they will not sell their product there. This is basic economics and you cannot blame a company for trying to make a profit, because if they cant make a profit they will soon go down, and then you can no longer get your plastic dudemen from them.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Hey if that means they are going to start a production facility in Australia, would that mean for us who live there (downunder) that costs could drop slightly??
If the rumour is true.

[Gotthammer]

Here's the reply I got from GW AU about the price differential:


Thanks for your enquiry. We charge a price we believe is appropriate for the products we sell. Each year we review our prices to ensure we continue to charge what is appropriate. We may raise prices on some products at this time and this can be done to increase revenue, however is more commonly done to offset inflationary pressures such as rising staff costs, rising freight costs and the like. Thus, each year we don’t necessarily raise prices on all products, only those we determine are needed.

So basically it's "well, sometimes we don't raise prices".

Awesome.


And comparing some nearby countries to UK prices Japan gets a 70% markup (same as here), while NZ only gets a 50% markup.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

This is quite disturbing. However, if Maelstrom 'Gift' the order, then they can get around the tax issue. This - well something similar - has been in the news for a while. Some Australian companies are complaining that they are losing out to online stores. Despite the fact that they have been rorting us for years. In Australia, the customer always loses. Seriously, if GW do this I'll be majorly pissed off.

[Asuron]

I don't think you quite understand how the free market works, xxvaderxx. A company (GW) produces a good/service (models, paints and rules), and they sell it to whoever they want. They are under no obligation to let other people in on their products. They don't have to sell through middlemen, they aren't required to allow other people to sell their stuff for them, and they can charge whatever they want for it. It's not like people are going to starve to death if they can't get their plastic dudemen.

The consumer, on the other hand, can just go play warmachine if they don't like GW's prices. It's literally as simple as that. If you think GW's stuff is too expensive, go play a different game and stop complaining about how you think GW is trying to rip you off.

Ohh look the guy who lives in America and who doesn't have to pay the INSANE markup we Australians do, is telling us to just get over it

Live in Australia for a while and try see if you can buy locally, you'll be ****ting bricks by the end of the first month

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Ohh look the guy who lives in America and who doesn't have to pay the INSANE markup we Australians do, is telling us to just get over it

Live in Australia for a while and try see if you can buy locally, you'll be ****ting bricks by the end of the first month

****ting bricks or not, it doesn't change the fact of how things are in a free market economy, this is how profit works. Sure I can save 50% buying online, but I support my local economies and local game shops out of my own personal choice. Does this slow down my hobby, yes, but hey, you pay the price for supporting your local areas.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

but hey, you pay the price for supporting your local areas.

So, a massive mark up covers the cost of supporting local areas? Sorry, but that's simply not the case. Paying 50 pounds for a battleforce sounds reasonable, charging three times that amount is simply not the case. Especially so given the strength of the Australian dollar. We're simply being ripped off, and as customers we are entitled to a competitive market.

[eldargal]

There is rumoured to be a price decrease for Australians, 15% at least, in fact, probably just 15% but maybe 20%. Its not great but its better than nothing. If it happens.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

There is rumoured to be a price decrease for Australians, 15% at least, in fact, probably just 15% but maybe 20%. Its not great but its better than nothing. If it happens.

I could live with that.

[Gotthammer]

There's also the fact that Privateer Press and so many others manage to be reasonable here:

Plastic 'jack kit: $34.99usd
$36.55 at Tin Soldier in Sydney.

[eldargal]

Quite, I'm not defending GWs antipodean prices, they are stupid. I'm just saying there is more to this announcement than just punitive action against 'the southern hemipshere', when it may just be South America.

For example, the switch to resin has been confirmed via GW Stuttgarts facebook page. We now have Cital Finecast incoming:

Wie versprochen, für alle die noch wach sind. ;-) Am 28. Mai beginnt die Revolution: Wir bringen "Citadel Finecast" raus. Achtet morgenauf den Newsletter. Wir sehen uns.
http://de-de.facebook.com/GWStuttgart

For all we know this is it, there may be no terms of trade changes at all.

[LostInTheDark]

There is rumoured to be a price decrease for Australians, 15% at least, in fact, probably just 15% but maybe 20%. Its not great but its better than nothing. If it happens.

When I arrived in Australia 10 or so years ago you got 3 dollars to the pound. Prices were much closer to parity with the exchange rate than now. GW chose not to adjust its pricing structure as the exchange rate shifted. Perhaps going for profit over growth?

As it stands now I haven't bought anything from an OZ retailer other than spray paint for several years, which is sad for local retails as I know I'm not the only one.

If prices are going to fall that might be good for the local area but even with large % discounts from local online stores to counter the exchange rate shift, I still buy from the UK because it’s cheaper and I have an established relationship with the company I buy from.

It’s hard to see how GW could enforce a don't sell to X part of the world; it’s not like restriction on EBook sales to Australia which is based on a ridiculous local law. Only time will tell I suppose.

[Asuron]

****ting bricks or not, it doesn't change the fact of how things are in a free market economy, this is how profit works. Sure I can save 50% buying online, but I support my local economies and local game shops out of my own personal choice. Does this slow down my hobby, yes, but hey, you pay the price for supporting your local areas.

Please, don't embarrass yourself further
You either don't want to understand how things work in Australia or you just didn't bother looking into it

Paying three times what you pay to support them, especially now when our dollar is so strong is stupid
Its a waste of money, especially when I can get more for less overseas, even when our dollar wasn't as strong as it is now

You know how you get a profit? By treating consumers with respect and pricing objects fairly across the world at a reasonable price, it gives people incentive to make continual purchases
I know I would buy far more reguarly if buying that box of FIVE terminators didnt cost me seventy dollars.

What you don't do is make people pay $180 dollars for a Tomb King Battalion that only adds eight skeletons, with the orginal product being vastly overpriced at $150 dollars
This is not good business sense, it doesn't encourage buyers new or old to get anything locally and pushes them away.

But hey your not the one paying the prices so why should you care?

[faolan]

GW's been using Australia, etc, so help subsidise the UK, basically. They charge more here because they can, and bring in a good portion of the overall profits.

If they're forbidding the sales to S Hemisphere, it's to protect that, no other reasons. Most of the guys at GW-Aus know the pricing is ******, but the UK offices won't allow anything to be done.

[Denzark]

GW's been using Australia, etc, so help subsidise the UK, basically. They charge more here because they can, and bring in a good portion of the overall profits.

If they're forbidding the sales to S Hemisphere, it's to protect that, no other reasons. Most of the guys at GW-Aus know the pricing is ******, but the UK offices won't allow anything to be done.

Hardly - this seems a bit histrionic to me.

I recently sold a 3rd ed Space Hulk on ebay, and sent to Australia. On weight it cost £50+ to send on SURFACE mail spending 6-8 weeks on a ship. Air mail would have been worse.

Now I appreciate on scale of economy a company will get better shipping ratios but even so Aus/NZ etc are a little excessive to ship to.

A closer dist hub/ manufactorum will obviously cut those costs down.

As to South America, having spent a pleasant 6 months in the Falklands where prices are massively inflated because of argentine restrictions on direct air travel, I couldn't give tinkers cuss if the boot is on the other foot for a change.

[daboarder]

Hardly - this seems a bit histrionic to me.

I recently sold a 3rd ed Space Hulk on ebay, and sent to Australia. On weight it cost £50+ to send on SURFACE mail spending 6-8 weeks on a ship. Air mail would have been worse.

Now I appreciate on scale of economy a company will get better shipping ratios but even so Aus/NZ etc are a little excessive to ship to.

A closer dist hub/ manufactorum will obviously cut those costs down.

As to South America, having spent a pleasant 6 months in the Falklands where prices are massively inflated because of argentine restrictions on direct air travel, I couldn't give tinkers cuss if the boot is on the other foot for a change.

Considering what I've just ordered from Europe this last week I'm going to have to call BS on this. Either that or congratulate you for ripping of someone by overcharging their shipping costs.


EDIT: To clarify a 9 kilo battery from the UK cost 25 to ship by air.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

Hardly - this seems a bit histrionic to me.

I recently sold a 3rd ed Space Hulk on ebay, and sent to Australia. On weight it cost £50+ to send on SURFACE mail spending 6-8 weeks on a ship. Air mail would have been worse.

Now I appreciate on scale of economy a company will get better shipping ratios but even so Aus/NZ etc are a little excessive to ship to.

A closer dist hub/ manufactorum will obviously cut those costs down.

As to South America, having spent a pleasant 6 months in the Falklands where prices are massively inflated because of argentine restrictions on direct air travel, I couldn't give tinkers cuss if the boot is on the other foot for a change.

They are hardly equivalent, Denzark. Sending stuff overseas using post offices is always expensive, whilst shipping from companies is always cheaper because they do it en masse. Hence, why amazon etc don't charge that much to mail products. Further, when I was last in the UK (to be specific, Edinburgh), I was able to send GW stuff back to me for less than 15 pounds - and we're talking a battleforce, some other boxes, a book and some metal blisters.

[Mobynick]

Hardly - this seems a bit histrionic to me.

I recently sold a 3rd ed Space Hulk on ebay, and sent to Australia. On weight it cost £50+ to send on SURFACE mail spending 6-8 weeks on a ship. Air mail would have been worse.

Now I appreciate on scale of economy a company will get better shipping ratios but even so Aus/NZ etc are a little excessive to ship to.

A closer dist hub/ manufactorum will obviously cut those costs down.

As to South America, having spent a pleasant 6 months in the Falklands where prices are massively inflated because of argentine restrictions on direct air travel, I couldn't give tinkers cuss if the boot is on the other foot for a change.

And yet maelstrom games can do it post free?

I was going to buy a Valk...$110 and I thought ...hell no too dear, nice model but I'm not paying $110 for it. A week later I found maaelstrom and for the same price I can get 2. Even ordering from GW UK and paying 30 pounds postage it is still cheeper than buying from a Aussie retailer or GW Aust.

Now if a company wants to play on the global market fine, but take the good with the bad. If they ban independant retails sending stuff to Australia I will finally kick my GW hobby habit out of spite.

[Gotthammer]

Considering what I've just ordered from Europe this last week I'm going to have to call BS on this. Either that or congratulate you for ripping of someone by overcharging their shipping costs.

No, it'd be legit, but Space Hulk 3rd ed weighs a ton - something like 4 kilos. Most stuff isn't that expensive though.

Also note that Privateer Press, Reaper and others are available here for prices either equal or very close to the exchange rate.

[eldargal]

Not to mention if you are a business sending enough packages you should get a bulk discount, thats how Wayland and Maelstrom do it (or so I've heard). If they can GW could, GW prices are stupid. No question of that, but we should still wait for the facts before we assume GW are going to stop independents shipping to the southern hemisphere. Bear in mind GW manufacture the product, they sell it on to indepednents at the price which makes them a profit. Anything they sell in their stores is a bonus, they think of the stores as advertising. The idea that GW would risk violating numerous countries trade laws to stop independents buying kits from them to sell to anyone is just silly in my view.

[Skragger]

So, a massive mark up covers the cost of supporting local areas? Sorry, but that's simply not the case. Paying 50 pounds for a battleforce sounds reasonable, charging three times that amount is simply not the case. Especially so given the strength of the Australian dollar. We're simply being ripped off, and as customers we are entitled to a competitive market.

Well, its an interesting picke for sure. Stores purchase the product from GW at a 45% mark down from the MSRP, and GW covers the cost of shipping to the retailer. If the retailer chooses to mark up above the MSRP then its their choice, but remember that you're paying a minimum of 45% more than it cost the store to get it for you.

Because GW offers the no-miminum size, free shipping deal to all its stockists, sometimes it reaches the point where it costs so much to ship an order that they lose money - depending on distance and taxes - so they offset that by jacking up the price of the unit. So I guess it becomes free-ish shipping then hmm.

I still do, and always will support my local stockists. They're people like you and me just trying to make a living and pay the bills.

Edit: Sorry if this doesn't make much sense as I think it does - I'm stuck at work and feeling sick/tired. So.. nyah!

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

Oh Games Workshop . . . what have you done. From Maelstrom:


Games Workshop's new Terms and Conditions
Firstly, Games Workshop's new Terms and Conditions, which come into force on the 31st of May 2011. These, among other things, restrict the sale of language products - i.e., rulebooks and codices that are not in English - and, most crucially of all, restrict the sale of all of their products to the European Union, although there are a couple of countries (such as Norway and Switzerland) that are geographically within Europe but not in the EU that we can still sell to.

The full list of countries that we can sell GW products to is as follows:

Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom

Obviously this means that all of our faithful Games Workshop customers from the Anglosphere - Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States - as well as those from Brazil, Chile, Peru, Russia, Japan and South Korea (apologies for those countries I have missed out) will now miss out on our superb service and cheap prices, but I'm afraid the terms and conditions of our contract with Games Workshop mean that we have to say goodbye.

[lattd]

I took that as saying good bye to the customers they had from outside Europe not to GW whos products probably help maelstrom survive.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

I took that as saying good bye to the customers they had from outside Europe not to GW whos products probably help maelstrom survive.

Yeah, agreed; misread that. Hey, it's 6am here :rolleyes:

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

I still do, and always will support my local stockists. They're people like you and me just trying to make a living and pay the bills.

Edit: Sorry if this doesn't make much sense as I think it does - I'm stuck at work and feeling sick/tired. So.. nyah!

Skragger, but come and live in Australia and tell me how you feel about the hobby. Regardless, we are still being charged too much, and now have no option but to pay the prices.

By the way, yes, you made sense :)

[lattd]

They are doing a lovely deal atm though with the 18% off, i just looked at a DE battle box voidraven venom ravager talos and scourges for £120 thats a ruddy good bargain 9 units think its about £15 each.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Please, don't embarrass yourself further
You either don't want to understand how things work in Australia or you just didn't bother looking into it

Paying three times what you pay to support them, especially now when our dollar is so strong is stupid
Its a waste of money, especially when I can get more for less overseas, even when our dollar wasn't as strong as it is now

You know how you get a profit? By treating consumers with respect and pricing objects fairly across the world at a reasonable price, it gives people incentive to make continual purchases
I know I would buy far more reguarly if buying that box of FIVE terminators didnt cost me seventy dollars.

What you don't do is make people pay $180 dollars for a Tomb King Battalion that only adds eight skeletons, with the orginal product being vastly overpriced at $150 dollars
This is not good business sense, it doesn't encourage buyers new or old to get anything locally and pushes them away.

But hey your not the one paying the prices so why should you care?

Embarrass myself? please... this is how the world works right now, this is how big companies do their practices. They know that people who want their product will buy it, they know that there are thousands of people out there who want instant gratification and will pay those exorbitant costs. Why do they know this, because they have been doing so for a long time, and yet they can still have successful business with rising prices because people keep buying. When they realize they aren't being successful, they will either cut ties, or cut prices down.

Is that fair? no
is that reasonable? no
will they keep doing it and succeed as they have been for decades? yes
will they eventually change prices just to keep a market? of course, its just a matter of time

And especially with a new manufacturing plant in the area, the prices are bound to drop, and they have already talked about a price cut.

I'm not saying I like it, I'm not saying its fair, and sure, it sucks for you guys in australia (among other countries with similar issues) but sitting here whining on a forum about how bad you have it gets you nowhere.

I in no way ever said that you buying from those companies was bad, and I never said buying locally was morally better in any way, I say that is what I choose to do, and I have seen my fair share of price hikes in local stores because they are the only non online source and can get away with it. My local store decides it likes to hike up the prices because its the only place in the area that sells Warhammer and they get away with it.

GW is a large corporation, and unless you change your own trade laws in your countries, that is how things will be because GW owns the product and the rights to produce it, and they can charge what they want. It sucks, it costs a lot, but your choice is to buy or not buy, go ahead and complain about it all you want, but trying to say to everyone else that you have it SO much worse (whether true) is annoying. We know it sucks for you, we are aware, but you need to have a basic understanding of the free market and how it works. In this world, whether it sucks or not, you are entitled to what you pay for, and ONLY what you pay for, stop acting like the company owes you some kind of favor, they do not.

[wittdooley]

And especially with a new manufacturing plant in the area, the prices are bound to drop, and they have already talked about a price cut.

This


We know it sucks for you, we are aware, but you need to have a basic understanding of the free market and how it works. In this world, whether it sucks or not, you are entitled to what you pay for, and ONLY what you pay for, stop acting like the company owes you some kind of favor, they do not.

And this.

There's a reason they're putting a factory over there. I had to pay $37 bucks to have a book shipped from Black Library. It irritated me. I got over it. If I didn't want to pay, I didn't have to. Cost of getting what you want sometimes.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

Who has talked about a price cut? All I've seen are rumours. I'd love it to be true, but where is the evidence of a price cut?

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Who has talked about a price cut? All I've seen are rumours. I'd love it to be true, but where is the evidence of a price cut?

sorry, my mistake in wording, i was referring to us more or less with this one. I am really hoping for your guys sake it is true, I know that would make it a lot easier on you all.

[daboarder]

OH those stupid *******s. well guys it was fun but I'm out GW litterally has just killed the hobby, what a bloody crock.

[xxvaderxx]

Well to no ones suprice it happened. Its hard to consider that the only way GW is going to learn from this situation is by eroding their sales and player base, i dont give a crap about the company but they finally manage to put the last nail on the hobbys coffin down here. So its a loose loose situation for them and us.

[wittdooley]

Well to no ones suprice it happened. Its hard to consider that the only way GW is going to learn from this situation is by eroding their sales and player base, i dont give a crap about the company but they finally manage to put the last nail on the hobbys coffin down here. So its a loose loose situation for them and us.

...

[xxvaderxx]

Embarrass myself? please... this is how the world works right now, this is how big companies do their practices. They know that people who want their product will buy it, they know that there are thousands of people out there who want instant gratification and will pay those exorbitant costs. Why do they know this, because they have been doing so for a long time, and yet they can still have successful business with rising prices because people keep buying. When they realize they aren't being successful, they will either cut ties, or cut prices down.

Is that fair? no
is that reasonable? no
will they keep doing it and succeed as they have been for decades? yes
will they eventually change prices just to keep a market? of course, its just a matter of time

And especially with a new manufacturing plant in the area, the prices are bound to drop, and they have already talked about a price cut.

I'm not saying I like it, I'm not saying its fair, and sure, it sucks for you guys in australia (among other countries with similar issues) but sitting here whining on a forum about how bad you have it gets you nowhere.

I in no way ever said that you buying from those companies was bad, and I never said buying locally was morally better in any way, I say that is what I choose to do, and I have seen my fair share of price hikes in local stores because they are the only non online source and can get away with it. My local store decides it likes to hike up the prices because its the only place in the area that sells Warhammer and they get away with it.

GW is a large corporation, and unless you change your own trade laws in your countries, that is how things will be because GW owns the product and the rights to produce it, and they can charge what they want. It sucks, it costs a lot, but your choice is to buy or not buy, go ahead and complain about it all you want, but trying to say to everyone else that you have it SO much worse (whether true) is annoying. We know it sucks for you, we are aware, but you need to have a basic understanding of the free market and how it works. In this world, whether it sucks or not, you are entitled to what you pay for, and ONLY what you pay for, stop acting like the company owes you some kind of favor, they do not.

Complaining about how a company misstreats its customers is ALSO part of free market, mouth to mouth is the most basic tool and most appreciated to expand sales, so it is to shrink them.

If you are so bothered by this post, then simply dont post and dont read it, last i checked nobody is putting a gun to your temple forcing you to type.

[DarkLink]

xxvaderxx, since you've made plenty of claims that "GW is eroding it's player base", why don't you show us your evidence? Or are you just making stuff up?

Remember, your opinion of a company does not reflect the demand of the general public for said company's products.

[Mobynick]

OH those stupid *******s. well guys it was fun but I'm out GW litterally has just killed the hobby, what a bloody crock.

I'm with you mate. Up yours GW !! I won't pay 2x what everyone else does. I have watched boxes of impy guard go from $35 aussie for 20 to $45 aussie for 10. :mad:

I make my own bows. For $35 I can make a bow with flemish twist string, or 12 very good arrows. So if any of you are into archery I may see you on the ranges some time. I'll be the one with the home made gear and the I hate GW t-shirt.

[Arch_Bishop]

I'm in Australia, and I buy exclusively from Wayland.

I have looked at their site and there is nothing to say that they aren't shipping here anymore. I have emailed asking them about this, so if I get confirmation, one way or the other, I will post it up.

I have read this whole thread, and it seems as though these are all just rumours and nothing has actually been confirmed yet.

I have looked at Maelstrom's website, and they have indeed confirmed that they are no longer shipping here, but this does not mean that all online retailers are stopping.

As for ebay, stores seem to spring up and shut down that offer discounts on GW stuff, so I'm sure that will continue. I had great dealings with a few stores, all of which can't ship here now (one even offered 3 pack discounts!).

If anyone has some evidence, please post.

If it's true, I guess my armies go unfinished, and it's Warmachine or Malifaux for me!

[Arch_Bishop]

I make my own bows. For $35 I can make a bow with flemish twist string, or 12 very good arrows. So if any of you are into archery I may see you on the ranges some time. I'll be the one with the home made gear and the I hate GW t-shirt.

Just sent you a PM.

Very interested.

[fuzzbuket]

hmmm is anyone else thinking that it cold be because MOST people are buying from say malstrom or wayland but NOT the local GW, so the choice for GW is A)close the shops and lose a lot of monies B) stop the other shops and make lots of monies!'

simple!

[daboarder]

hmmm is anyone else thinking that it cold be because MOST people are buying from say malstrom or wayland but NOT the local GW, so the choice for GW is A)close the shops and lose a lot of monies B) stop the other shops and make lots of monies!'

simple!

I'd say the regularity of these price rises and the fact that GW still makes a profit on maelstrom sale means this is not the case.

[Arch_Bishop]

hmmm is anyone else thinking that it cold be because MOST people are buying from say malstrom or wayland but NOT the local GW, so the choice for GW is A)close the shops and lose a lot of monies B) stop the other shops and make lots of monies!'

simple!

C) drop prices?

[Seregon]

I'm in Australia, and I buy exclusively from Wayland.

I have looked at their site and there is nothing to say that they aren't shipping here anymore. I have emailed asking them about this, so if I get confirmation, one way or the other, I will post it up.

I have read this whole thread, and it seems as though these are all just rumours and nothing has actually been confirmed yet.

I have looked at Maelstrom's website, and they have indeed confirmed that they are no longer shipping here, but this does not mean that all online retailers are stopping.

As for ebay, stores seem to spring up and shut down that offer discounts on GW stuff, so I'm sure that will continue. I had great dealings with a few stores, all of which can't ship here now (one even offered 3 pack discounts!).

If anyone has some evidence, please post.

If it's true, I guess my armies go unfinished, and it's Warmachine or Malifaux for me!

Wayland Games posted on their facebook profile that they and their lawyers will look through these changes before they announce their next move.


WaylandGames
Guys and girls, we are not ignoring you by not making a formal response to GW's trade terms changes that were released today. We need some time to properly study them, as do the lawyers. So please bear with us until tomorrow when we will be able to elaborate.

[Arch_Bishop]

^^ Thank you you posting that, Seregon.

On another note, I urge all of you to write GW an email, outlining your concerns and future intentions, given this move. This has already started on Reddit.

I know it sounds ridiculous, "what will they care", etc, etc. But it is the least we can do. How do they know our grievances unless we tell them?

Just write an email, politely outlining your problems (e.g. paying too much in Australia, not allowing retailers to ship outside the EU, etc). I'm sure you are all smart enough to know how to write such an email, so I will leave it up to you.

The main thing is, if you do email them, don't just rage and saying you're going to PP; that won't help. Speak from the heart. Tell them your story. Explain your love for the hobby. Let them know.

Will this solve the problem? Who knows. All I know is, it is the least we can do, as sitting around whining is not good enough.

Fight for your right to hobby!

[Wildeybeast]

Wow Bishop, you're spamming two threads with this nonsense? I don't normally like picking arguments, but the tripe you are spouting is starting to annoy me.

You have no RIGHT to your hobby. You have a RIGHT to not be killed. You have RIGHT to own property without it being unfairly taken from you. You have a RIGHT to come on the internet and spout your views to anyone that will listen (however much I wish you wouldn't). You do not have a RIGHT to buy plastic wargames figures at a price that you deem to be reasonable (I know, came as a surprise to me too, but I double checked the UN Declaration of Human Rights and its definitely not there). GW owes you no moral, ethical, legal or any other type of obligation to sell its products at a price that suits you. Its only obligations are to its employees and it shareholders. It fulfills both of these obligations by making a healthy profit and it does this by charging more money for its products than it costs to make and supply them. It also does this by preventing other companies from selling its products cheaper than they do. If you can't afford it, tough. That's capitalism for you. Don't buy plastic crack, go invest the money you would have spent in another hobby, or pay more off your mortgage or save it for your kids university fees or whatever else you want to do with it. The world won't come to an end if you have to give up GW.

So please, please stop this foolhardy campaign that will achieve nothing other than frustrating the poor guy that has to respond to your emails (and I assure you he will not be passing them onto anyone higher up), and stop encouraging others. And please stop filling the forums up with this non-issue.

[TheRise]

Wildeybeast you realy are friendly ain't ya?
So you think that even after exchanching the money through currency exchange and then doubling the price is fair?
Oh don't tell me you're Jes Goodwin, phil kelly or soembeody from the marketing high order of gw? Now that makes perfect sense "lets rip everybody off, who cares that its unfair, and that we are as bad as politicians and bankers. lets go make 300% profit!"
And non-issue? How is it not an issue?

[Skragger]

So please, please stop this foolhardy campaign that will achieve nothing other than frustrating the poor guy that has to respond to your emails (and I assure you he will not be passing them onto anyone higher up), and stop encouraging others. And please stop filling the forums up with this non-issue.

For once, I have to agree on this one. I work in a similar position to the blokes in GW - I take customer calls and assist them with their products. I cannot speak on policy/pricing for our services, and when I get a call or E-mail asking about these things, all I can do is say/write a prewritten script.

Its better to call them and ask "who can I talk to to get more information on this?", then they can give you the contact information of someone who actually can help you rather than just write "we appreciate your concern but..."

[wittdooley]

Wildeybeast you realy are friendly ain't ya?
So you think that even after exchanching the money through currency exchange and then doubling the price is fair?
Oh don't tell me you're Jes Goodwin, phil kelly or soembeody from the marketing high order of gw? Now that makes perfect sense "lets rip everybody off, who cares that its unfair, and that we are as bad as politicians and bankers. lets go make 300% profit!"
And non-issue? How is it not an issue?

I have to ask: Do you realize how ignorant your posts read? They obviously read "angry," but they're so ill-informed that I almost want to think they're a joke...

I doubt Jes Goodwin (a sculptor/artist) or Phil Kelly (a designer/writer) have anything to do with GW's marketing policy. Remember that GW is no longer a mom n' pop shop. They're a multi-national, publicly traded corporation, and surely have a marketing department with varying levels that determine how the product is going to be marketed to the public. This would include a team of math/economics-minded individuals that are tasked with determining the viability of their pricing structure.

Further, your comment about politicians and bankers is downright ignorant, and if GW was making 300% profit, then they'd be doing exactly what their purpose and responsiblity to their shareholders dictates: to make money.

[lattd]

This would include a team of math/economics-minded individuals that are tasked with determining the viability of their pricing structure.


These marketers obviously don't understand a recession or advertising. The only why i heard about GW was word of mouth, im sure they could afford a TV commercial they made £6 million last year.

[wittdooley]

These marketers obviously don't understand a recession or advertising. The only why i heard about GW was word of mouth, im sure they could afford a TV commercial they made £6 million last year.

I dunno, I'd say the video games GW produces do a fair amount of marketing for them. And if word-of-mouth is garnering them $6MM profit, and the shareholders are happy with that profit, why should they pay for a television commercial in the age of DVR?

I don't know what some people expect. The gas prices didn't decrease during the recession. They went up. Why would the price of a luxury, non-essential commodity lower during the same recession?

[lattd]

It would lower to attract sales, that economics 101 if your a luxury you should watch income levels like a hawk and act to make sure you maximise sales.

Ironic in an area with gamers looking for minimum cost for maximum potential the company that makes the game is not doing a fantastic job of it.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

It would lower to attract sales, that economics 101 if your a luxury you should watch income levels like a hawk and act to make sure you maximise sales.

Ironic in an area with gamers looking for minimum cost for maximum potential the company that makes the game is not doing a fantastic job of it.


Welcome to the world of publicly traded multimillion dollar corporations.

[Wildeybeast]

Wildeybeast you realy are friendly ain't ya?
So you think that even after exchanching the money through currency exchange and then doubling the price is fair?
Oh don't tell me you're Jes Goodwin, phil kelly or soembeody from the marketing high order of gw? Now that makes perfect sense "lets rip everybody off, who cares that its unfair, and that we are as bad as politicians and bankers. lets go make 300% profit!"
And non-issue? How is it not an issue?

I'm sorry, I'm clearly not expressing myself well enough. Did I ever say this practice was fair? I don't think I did. If so, please quote me and I will stand corrected. My point is not that this is a fair practice, I'm in no position to judge that and neither is anyone else since we don't know the cost break downs of GW. But, no it probably isn't fair. My point is SO WHAT? Thats the way the whole damn world works. What's not fair is the price of wheat tripling in year so people can't afford to buy bread. What's not fair is an aids epidemic in Africa. What's not fair is the western nations arbitarily intervening in some conflicts whilst turning a blind eye to repression and genocide elsewhere. The world is so damned messed up because people would rather campaign about the price of stupid plastic little men and worry about their own narrow definitions of 'fair'. And no, this is not a personal attack of the moral fibre of BoLS members, I'm just saying that there is something fundamentally wrong with our society and I'm trying to point out that perhaps there are more important things in life to worry and moan about.

If I'm coming across as confrontational then that is not my intent and I apologise, but I just get so ticked off with people moaning about percieved injustices, when actually there is nothing really wrong in the big scheme of things. I joined this forum to discuss the positives of my hobby and share my love of it with like minded individuals, but in the last month there must have been at least 6 different threads about price increases. The threads should consist of 'GW put prices up, here is what your next fix will cost you'. End of conversation, move on, talk about something else. You don't want to pay it fair enough, but do you really need to tell the whole world about it?

[xxvaderxx]

xxvaderxx, since you've made plenty of claims that "GW is eroding it's player base", why don't you show us your evidence? Or are you just making stuff up?

Remember, your opinion of a company does not reflect the demand of the general public for said company's products.

Dont take my word for it, take mister`s Tom Kirby year reports.

Report July 2010
"Sales are down on last year on a constant currency basis despite strong growth from the new Games Workshop Webstore. We increased the number of Hobby centres by 27 stores during the year, but the growth from these was not able to offset the decline in existing store"

You can of course consider that from July last year to the date, GW has managed to revert the situation and due to their awesome marketing tactics they reverted the sales tendencies they reported.
On my side, i rather remember their "not meeting sales expectations" reports of last Christmas, so i consider it rather difficult.

But you are right, i have no hard proof and the financial statements of GW are very careful to talk $$$ instead of sales volume. So while their net profit might be increasing, there is not way to tell about their actual sales numbers.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Dont take my word for it, take mister`s Tom Kirby year reports.

Report July 2010
"Sales are down on last year on a constant currency basis despite strong growth from the new Games Workshop Webstore. We increased the number of Hobby centres by 27 stores during the year, but the growth from these was not able to offset the decline in existing store"

You can of course consider that from July last year to the date, GW has managed to revert the situation and due to their awesome marketing tactics they reverted the sales tendencies they reported.
On my side, i rather remember their "not meeting sales expectations" reports of last Christmas, so i consider it rather difficult.

But you are right, i have no hard proof and the financial statements of GW are very careful to talk $$$ instead of sales volume. So while their net profit might be increasing, there is not way to tell about their actual sales numbers.

And this is exactly why people have been arguing against you, because you have zero evidence and yet you are making some very stunning arguments. Anecdotal evidence is worthless and meaningless, and is useless in any logical discourse. And of course GW won't tell you volumes, it isn't included along side their profit reports, volume is only important in so much as that it is for inventory sake. They would not include that in their profit reports because from a profit standpoint (when you compare to previous years) volume is unimportant, money is. If the company made 10% higher profit than the previous year, but only sold 70% of the volume of the previous year, they would still be successful, because to a company the profit is all that matters. Volume comes in to how much money you make obviously, but for a profit report, which is what a company has to report to its shareholders, all the shareholders care about are the actual monetary volume, not product volume.

[daboarder]

ummm emerald, that letter he quoted is directly from tom kirby the chairman of GW?

that evidence is as strong as it gets, so strong in fact that what he says in the statement is legally binding as a report of GW's finance's.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

ummm emerald, that letter he quoted is directly from tom kirby the chairman of GW?

that evidence is as strong as it gets, so strong in fact that what he says in the statement is legally binding as a report of GW's finance's.

The problem is that statement cuts short the next sentence which has an important context to it (reading the report myself now).

"Sales are down on last year on a constant currency basis despite strong growth from the new Games Workshop Webstore. We increased the number of
Hobby centres by 27 stores during the year, but the growth from these was not able to offset the decline in existing stores. Although there was some
improvement in the second half, achieving consistent like for like (‘LFL’) growth in Hobby centres is currently our main focus. More on this later."

Sure by this you can tell the sales aren't what they expected, but looking at the chart directly above that statement, it shows that GW has had growth between 2009 and 2010. Reading on you can tell they are not satisfied with certain markets, Australia being one of them, but overall the company has growth despite price increases.

A partial quote is just that, partial, and meaningless as it is pulled out of context.

And just a few paragraphs later it is stated they had to pay back many debts in that same year, so despite having to repay debt they are still growing, if slower than the company previously expected.

But don't take my word for it, read the report yourself, and see the charts around that statement which are on page four.
http://investor.games-workshop.com/downloads/results/results2010/2009-10_FinalFullYearReport.pdf

[Arch_Bishop]

Wow Bishop, you're spamming two threads with this nonsense? I don't normally like picking arguments, but the tripe you are spouting is starting to annoy me.

You have no RIGHT to your hobby. You have a RIGHT to not be killed. You have RIGHT to own property without it being unfairly taken from you. You have a RIGHT to come on the internet and spout your views to anyone that will listen (however much I wish you wouldn't). You do not have a RIGHT to buy plastic wargames figures at a price that you deem to be reasonable (I know, came as a surprise to me too, but I double checked the UN Declaration of Human Rights and its definitely not there). GW owes you no moral, ethical, legal or any other type of obligation to sell its products at a price that suits you. Its only obligations are to its employees and it shareholders. It fulfills both of these obligations by making a healthy profit and it does this by charging more money for its products than it costs to make and supply them. It also does this by preventing other companies from selling its products cheaper than they do. If you can't afford it, tough. That's capitalism for you. Don't buy plastic crack, go invest the money you would have spent in another hobby, or pay more off your mortgage or save it for your kids university fees or whatever else you want to do with it. The world won't come to an end if you have to give up GW.

So please, please stop this foolhardy campaign that will achieve nothing other than frustrating the poor guy that has to respond to your emails (and I assure you he will not be passing them onto anyone higher up), and stop encouraging others. And please stop filling the forums up with this non-issue.


Wow.....just wow.

Yeah, I got passionate about all of this, so I posted a few thoughts. Sorry it offended you so much. It was like 1am, and I got a little into it.

In terms of reality, I don't have a right to ANYTHING, EVER. Power and its use is all that exists. If I want something, and I am powerful, I can take it. Total Sadist mentality. I agree with this.

I'm not some sort of socialist, left-wing extremist; you really have no idea.

GW does not owe me anything. I am FULLY AWARE OF THAT.

The world will not end if I have to stop playing Warhammer. It would be a shame though.

What astounds me is your totally lack of empathy. You are basically saying, that they can do what they want, and I should either take it or leave it? Well fine, but I will give them some feedback before I go, as I feel I at least owe them that.

I'm just amazed that GW can ban retailers sending stuff overseas. In this day and age of internet business and a global economy (apparently).... Internet business is my business, and I don't like to see it restricted.

Stop taking it all to heart, mate. I'm saying we should all hold hands and sing until they give it to use for free.

I expect to pay a price for a product, and I expect to pay more the the top product, with GW has. What I don't expect is to be told who I can buy from. I don't expect to be charged SUBSTANTIALLY more than the next person.

I find it funny that most people here (who aren't from the Southern Hemisphere) are tell me to go away, yet on Reddit, everyone is getting behind it.

I do not expect this to do anything. I just think it is worth letting them know. END OF STORY.

(p.s. If you don't like my opinion, don't read it. No one is forcing you. You have no right to complain. I don't owe you anything, and neither does the internet).

[addamsfamily36]

I have a question/suggestion for Australian customers and for anyone who might be included in this restriction on shipping to the south etc.

Could, if you knew someone in the UK, you not get them to order any GW products you may wish to purchase and get that person to then ship them to you once they had received them? Delivery to stores in the UK is free and i think free if you spend over a certain amount to your house as well so you would only need to pay the shipping charge from that UK resident to you (wherever you may be).

Better still, get that person to order from wayland games or dicebucket and save 20-35% on the actual product. then spend the saved money on the shipping and if you bulk buy or club together when you order say with another friend, then the shipping costs might not be too bad, and the end price will be similar to the UK price or close too.

just an idea, as its a shame to ditch a hobby

[Arch_Bishop]

I'm sorry, I'm clearly not expressing myself well enough. Did I ever say this practice was fair? I don't think I did. If so, please quote me and I will stand corrected. My point is not that this is a fair practice, I'm in no position to judge that and neither is anyone else since we don't know the cost break downs of GW. But, no it probably isn't fair. My point is SO WHAT? Thats the way the whole damn world works. What's not fair is the price of wheat tripling in year so people can't afford to buy bread. What's not fair is an aids epidemic in Africa. What's not fair is the western nations arbitarily intervening in some conflicts whilst turning a blind eye to repression and genocide elsewhere. The world is so damned messed up because people would rather campaign about the price of stupid plastic little men and worry about their own narrow definitions of 'fair'. And no, this is not a personal attack of the moral fibre of BoLS members, I'm just saying that there is something fundamentally wrong with our society and I'm trying to point out that perhaps there are more important things in life to worry and moan about.

If I'm coming across as confrontational then that is not my intent and I apologise, but I just get so ticked off with people moaning about percieved injustices, when actually there is nothing really wrong in the big scheme of things. I joined this forum to discuss the positives of my hobby and share my love of it with like minded individuals, but in the last month there must have been at least 6 different threads about price increases. The threads should consist of 'GW put prices up, here is what your next fix will cost you'. End of conversation, move on, talk about something else. You don't want to pay it fair enough, but do you really need to tell the whole world about it?

So, what are you going to do about Africa then?

If there are more important issues, what are you doing about them?

So, if you are telling me to shut up and take it, can I say that to Africa?

"Hey Africans, I don't care that you are starving and dying of AIDS, that's Capitalism baby, deal with it".

[Arch_Bishop]

I have a question/suggestion for Australian customers and for anyone who might be included in this restriction on shipping to the south etc.

Could, if you knew someone in the UK, you not get them to order any GW products you may wish to purchase and get that person to then ship them to you once they had received them? Delivery to stores in the UK is free and i think free if you spend over a certain amount to your house as well so you would only need to pay the shipping charge from that UK resident to you (wherever you may be).

Better still, get that person to order from wayland games or dicebucket and save 20-35% on the actual product. then spend the saved money on the shipping and if you bulk buy or club together when you order say with another friend, then the shipping costs might not be too bad, and the end price will be similar to the UK price or close too.

just an idea, as its a shame to ditch a hobby

This is exactly what I am trying to hook up at the moment.

Hell, I might even buy a whole bunch over there and sell it all here.

Make money, money! Take money, money!

[Emerald Rose Widow]

So, what are you going to do about Africa then?

If there are more important issues, what are you doing about them?

So, if you are telling me to shut up and take it, can I say that to Africa?

"Hey Africans, I don't care that you are starving and dying of AIDS, that's Capitalism baby, deal with it".

Wow, did you seriously just compare the suffering of AIDS victims in africa to your luxury hobby? There is a big difference, capitalism isn't why they are suffering, its because of their lower economic standing as well as a lack of a genetic resistance to HIV that Europeans and those of European decent have. I mean even if you are just kidding, that isn't funny, people are dying, millions and millions of people, due to that disease. Your just losing your ability to play a bloody game.

[daboarder]

Wow, did you seriously just compare the suffering of AIDS victims in africa to your luxury hobby? There is a big difference, capitalism isn't why they are suffering, its because of their lower economic standing as well as a lack of a genetic resistance to HIV that Europeans and those of European decent have. I mean even if you are just kidding, that isn't funny, people are dying, millions and millions of people, due to that disease. Your just losing your ability to play a bloody game.


Did you seriously just compare the aids pandemic in africa to white supremacy........?


See we can do this too.

[Arch_Bishop]

Wow, did you seriously just compare the suffering of AIDS victims in africa to your luxury hobby? There is a big difference, capitalism isn't why they are suffering, its because of their lower economic standing as well as a lack of a genetic resistance to HIV that Europeans and those of European decent have. I mean even if you are just kidding, that isn't funny, people are dying, millions and millions of people, due to that disease. Your just losing your ability to play a bloody game.

He made the comparison, not me.

I think it is absolutely awful what is happening there, and I was not making light of the problem. We should also include pharmaceutical companies and the Vatican into your equation too though, but that's another story...

It was said that I have nothing to whine about, as there is greater suffering in the world. I asked what said poster is doing about it, as I am not allowed to complain about this, due to that.

The poster also said that I have no right to complain, so why not make a comparison? Granted, it was in poor taste, but why bring something like that up in the first place?

I'm having a little cry about my toys becoming more expensive. He compared my grief to Africa; why?

Stupid comparisons call for equally stupid responses.



My point is SO WHAT? Thats the way the whole damn world works. What's not fair is the price of wheat tripling in year so people can't afford to buy bread. What's not fair is an aids epidemic in Africa. What's not fair is the western nations arbitarily intervening in some conflicts whilst turning a blind eye to repression and genocide elsewhere. The world is so damned messed up because people would rather campaign about the price of stupid plastic little men and worry about their own narrow definitions of 'fair'. And no, this is not a personal attack of the moral fibre of BoLS members, I'm just saying that there is something fundamentally wrong with our society and I'm trying to point out that perhaps there are more important things in life to worry and moan about.

His words, not mine.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Did you seriously just compare the aids pandemic in africa to white supremacy........?


See we can do this too.

-facepalm- how does stating a fact about European genetic resistance to HIV due to exposure to the bubonic plague lead your mind to white supremacy? I was commenting on his comment that was in excessive poor taste, somehow equivocating aids in Africa on the same level as his hobby, or thinking someone was comparing at that level (i could be wrong as to my interpretation). There is a difference between commenting on someone's poor taste thus calling them out on it, and making a complete non-sequitur.

[daboarder]

-facepalm- how does stating a fact about European genetic resistance to HIV due to exposure to the bubonic plague lead your mind to white supremacy? I was commenting on his comment that was in excessive poor taste, somehow equivocating aids in Africa on the same level as his hobby, or thinking someone was comparing at that level (i could be wrong as to my interpretation). There is a difference between commenting on someone's poor taste thus calling them out on it, and making a complete non-sequitur.

Probably the fact that while the gene you are talking about DOES exist, it is in no way limited to europeans or their descendents and the fact that after a litte argument that happened in 1914 and again in 1939 that particular gene is at most only in 1% of the population.


edit: all that aside you clearly missed the point of my post

[Arch_Bishop]

-facepalm- how does stating a fact about European genetic resistance to HIV due to exposure to the bubonic plague lead your mind to white supremacy? I was commenting on his comment that was in excessive poor taste, somehow equivocating aids in Africa on the same level as his hobby, or thinking someone was comparing at that level (i could be wrong as to my interpretation). There is a difference between commenting on someone's poor taste thus calling them out on it, and making a complete non-sequitur.

Read my post above.

I merely was pointing out the ridiculous comment made in the first place.

Also, let's not getting started on the African Aids epidemic; thread is about to be derailed.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Read my post above.

I merely was pointing out the ridiculous comment made in the first place.

Also, let's not getting started on the African Aids epidemic; thread is about to be derailed.

Yes, sorry back on topic, i'll drop the aids thing.



edit: all that aside you clearly missed the point of my post

No, i got your point, i wasn't dignifying it by actually acknowledging it.

[wafflecakes]

It is rumoured to be Argentina and Brazil, not the southern hemisphere and it has more to do with Argentinian and Brazilian taxes than GWs profit motive. We don't know the specifics either, GW are also opening a new Asian production facility possibly in Australia in the next 18 months we don't know how that will affect the situation.

You would be better of waiting until the announcement and being in posession of some of the facts before launching an over emotional campaign like this. You know nothing at this point, Maelstrom have told you nothing other than that something is happening and they cannot commend on it until Monday. Get angry then, not now.

OMG that would be win if they opened up a production facility here in Aus.

[Gotthammer]

You're assuming that would mean they actually drop the prices. The way things have been lately I wouldn't be surprised if they raised prices to pay for building it :rolleyes:

[Billyjoeray]

-facepalm- how does stating a fact about European genetic resistance to HIV due to exposure to the bubonic plague lead your mind to white supremacy? I was commenting on his comment that was in excessive poor taste, somehow equivocating aids in Africa on the same level as his hobby, or thinking someone was comparing at that level (i could be wrong as to my interpretation).
Pardon my rant, but I just couldn't resist.

First off, I'm sorry, to bring it back up, and I will drop it after this, but the AIDs thing is the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life. You can't seriously believe that is the reason that there is an AIDs epidemic in Africa and not in Europe. It couldn't possibly be because some people in Africa don't know how HIV is spread and habitually engage in high risk behaviors (unprotected sex etc.) more often than Europeans. That wouldn't make any sense. It must be because Europeans have super genes and are somehow super human! Don't take a couple of study done by a few people and published in Wired magazine as undisputed scientific fact. You will end up saying silly things.

But to address this topic. To all those who are spouting this "GW is a company that can do whatever it wants. Welcome to capitalism" nonsense, I have to bring up the fact that the reason that we aren't living in a horribly post-apocalyptic distopia is because people stood up to things that they considered injustices. I don't think that believing in protesting this or that believing this is unfair is an affirmation of naivety, I think that it is the right mode of expressing discontent. If everyone just accepts the fact that GW is essentially discriminating against Australians by denying them the right to purchase products from who they choose, then there is nothing holding them accountable. Pretending like capitalism is some sort of inexorable mystical machine guiding all action unfortunately seems to be a tenet that is readily accepted by Western Capitalist society. However, saying that "You have no rights. GW can do whatever they want. There is nothing you can do about it, it's capitalism" is the kind of pessimistic garbage that I am tired of seeing around. Is that really your opinion? Do you really believe that? Or are you just saying that because you think it makes you sound profound and educated? If you truly believe that, I respect that, but I feel bad for your pessimism and I have to disagree and I think you would too if you looked at history. However, if you are just regurgitating something you heard or read somewhere, please take the time to think it through and consider the fact that many good things arose from people who stood up for what they consider injustices.

/end rant

[wittdooley]

Oh jeeze billyjoeray...so you're considering this pricing disparity (and that's ALL it is) an injustice?

Are you kidding me?

Genocide in Libyia is an injustice. Inequality of rights for women in many middle eastern countries is an injustice. Worker standards in many 3rd world countries is an injustice.

A pricing disparity for a non-essential luxury commodity that is effectively a TOY is not an injustice.

As for your inane resuscitating of the AIDS topic: part of the "super gene" phenomenon you so ignorantly speak to is due to the vast breadth of immunities European peoples have built up over the course of history living in large, filty cities. European disease killed a great deal of the Incans and Aztecs. European disease killed a great deal of the American Indians. European disease is helping to kill folks in Africa. Sure, ignorance and intolerance are doing their fair share, but to claim that the simple number of people having unprotected sex is to blame, then HIV should be running rampant in the United States, as clearly shows like Teen Mom and 16 and Pregnant prove there are plenty of people failing to do the same here.

[Wildeybeast]

Oh jeeze billyjoeray...so you're considering this pricing disparity (and that's ALL it is) an injustice?

Are you kidding me?

Genocide in Libyia is an injustice. Inequality of rights for women in many middle eastern countries is an injustice. Worker standards in many 3rd world countries is an injustice.

A pricing disparity for a non-essential luxury commodity that is effectively a TOY is not an injustice.

As for your inane resuscitating of the AIDS topic: part of the "super gene" phenomenon you so ignorantly speak to is due to the vast breadth of immunities European peoples have built up over the course of history living in large, filty cities. European disease killed a great deal of the Incans and Aztecs. European disease killed a great deal of the American Indians. European disease is helping to kill folks in Africa. Sure, ignorance and intolerance are doing their fair share, but to claim that the simple number of people having unprotected sex is to blame, then HIV should be running rampant in the United States, as clearly shows like Teen Mom and 16 and Pregnant prove there are plenty of people failing to do the same here.

Thank you, glad someone got my point.

1) I never mentioned white supremacy. I was pointing out how the west/first world/developed nations (delete as appropriate) feels capable of intevening in some countries whilst ignoring similar problems in other. (E.g. bomb Lybia/ignore Syria and invite them to the royal wedding).
2) I did not equate the things I mentioned, I simply used them as examples of proper injustice in our world to illustrate how much people are overreacting to a price increase and/or differential.
3)I'll make point as simply as I can so people don't misunderstand me. [Gets out metaphorical big crayon and adopts best teacher voice] If you really want to bombard GW with emails venting your anger, go nuts. They won't do anything/care, but what the hey, knock yourselves out. But please stop coming on here, and moaning about this being unfair (across mulitple threads) when you clearly have no idea of what the word even means.

[Gotthammer]

I'm just going to put a link in to Hitler (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXVKj0KcbIQ&feature=fvwrel) to get Godwin out of the way early the way this thread is going...

[addamsfamily36]

Oh come on guys really?

plastic toys and AIDS?

I can safely say i would rather pay a bit more for my hobby or just give it up entirely, than have to deal with something as serious as having HIV/AIDS or Cancer.

A price hike might be an "injustice" or "insult", but comparing it to a terminal illness is ridiculous.

I am all for voicing opinions (i do it enough myself), but (and excuse the matrix reference) its a matter of choice. You can choose to the leave the hobby or maybe even change the game system you play or you can choose to pay more for something you enjoy or look into ways around the problem, (see my last post).

It's the same with if you feel passionate about the wrongs in the world, you have a choice. Join a charity. Volunteer to go and give aid in Africa. Here in the UK our foreign Aid budget has risen over the past years to support amongst other things vaccines abroad which are saving millions of lives. Ok things are not going to happen overnight, but it is not like things are not being done at all.

unfortunately the reality of things is , **** happens. people catch aids. natural disasters happen etc and a lot lower down the serious chart, Plastic toys go up in price. The important thing that we can do is make a choice.

[addamsfamily36]

I know i'm going to regret that last post, but we need to get this thread back on track and away from two topics that should never have been brought together

[wittdooley]

I think at this point, it would behoove GW to release some information about their production facility product in Asia and how it will impact their Aussie consumers.

The problem continues to be that GW plays things so very close to the vest; were they to open up the lines of communication better to their public, perhaps the upheaval would be less.

[Wildeybeast]

I think at this point, it would behoove GW to release some information about their production facility product in Asia and how it will impact their Aussie consumers.

The problem continues to be that GW plays things so very close to the vest; were they to open up the lines of communication better to their public, perhaps the upheaval would be less.

I agree that they could do more to communicate, but I think that is deliberate on their part. Think how much fun we all have speculating on what the next release will be and the hype and anticpation it generates. And what happens if they say they will do something (like open a new plant) and are then forced to change those plans? They get hammered for what they DO, how much flak will they get for saying they are going to do something and then not? I guess they have to find a careful balance between keeping us in the loop and not giving away too much info. I wouldn't like to be the guy in charge of making that decision.

[addamsfamily36]

I agree that they could do more to communicate, but I think that is deliberate on their part. Think how much fun we all have speculating on what the next release will be and the hype and anticpation it generates. And what happens if they say they will do something (like open a new plant) and are then forced to change those plans? They get hammered for what they DO, how much flak will they get for saying they are going to do something and then not? I guess they have to find a careful balance between keeping us in the loop and not giving away too much info. I wouldn't like to be the guy in charge of making that decision.

I think this is a very good viewpoint/perspective.

GW relies on the hype sometimes for weaker armies to sell well. I recall several releases where images were leaked ages in advance or GW just posted them too early and by the time release day came around the interest was gone.

sometimes it can work to leak, but not always.

In regards to opening a plant, as you say, they could say yeh sure we are planning to do it etc. *The internet cheers*. then for some unforeseeable reason it can't happen or it falls through, *internet attacks*.

Rock, hard place

[wittdooley]

Good points, both.

I'm perfectly fine with them keeping the mini releases hidden to allow for that hype to foster and swell. I'm suggesting that perhaps that with the release of a minimum amount of information to sate their customer base: ("We presently have plans to open an Asian factory that could potentially have positive benefit for our Pan-Pacific customer base").

Imagine the impact that very ambiguous statment would have. It's non-commital, but offers some insight.

[Wildeybeast]

Good points, both.

I'm perfectly fine with them keeping the mini releases hidden to allow for that hype to foster and swell. I'm suggesting that perhaps that with the release of a minimum amount of information to sate their customer base: ("We presently have plans to open an Asian factory that could potentially have positive benefit for our Pan-Pacific customer base").

Imagine the impact that very ambiguous statment would have. It's non-commital, but offers some insight.

Sounds reasonable to me, maybe you should work for GW:)

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Pardon my rant, but I just couldn't resist.

First off, I'm sorry, to bring it back up, and I will drop it after this, but the AIDs thing is the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life. You can't seriously believe that is the reason that there is an AIDs epidemic in Africa and not in Europe. It couldn't possibly be because some people in Africa don't know how HIV is spread and habitually engage in high risk behaviors (unprotected sex etc.) more often than Europeans. That wouldn't make any sense. It must be because Europeans have super genes and are somehow super human! Don't take a couple of study done by a few people and published in Wired magazine as undisputed scientific fact. You will end up saying silly things.
/end rant

-facepalm- i never said that was the only reason, it was merely one reason i had mentioned, it happened to be on my mind due to recent discussion about the same topic. When did i ever say they had super genes, they have a resistance, big difference. And it has a bigger impact than you would imagine, and of course there are other things affecting it, such as poor access to healthcare and proper education on safe sex, etc.



Good points, both.

I'm perfectly fine with them keeping the mini releases hidden to allow for that hype to foster and swell. I'm suggesting that perhaps that with the release of a minimum amount of information to sate their customer base: ("We presently have plans to open an Asian factory that could potentially have positive benefit for our Pan-Pacific customer base").

Imagine the impact that very ambiguous statment would have. It's non-commital, but offers some insight.

I have a feeling while that would create an uproar in and of itself, its enough to create at least a little more goodwill in the customer base in that area. I mean the people who feel entitled are still going to rail against them, but hey, gotta start somewhere.

[daboarder]

So now we are "entitled" for expecting companies to obey the trade laws of the countries in which they do business?

I humbly draw your eminence's attention to the Sony Vs Eddy Stevens court case.

The crux? Sony was found to be illegally forcing trade restrictions on Australian customers therefore it was deemed acceptable action for said customers to both install Mod chips AND market them.

but then I must be ignorant of capitalism to expect the laws of my country to mean anything on the international stage right? After all we all know the only law that matters is the law that governs Cedar Falls right?

[Billyjoeray]

Wittdooley you are probably the most ignorant troll I have seen in a while. Your ridiculous cliched straw man arguments about the fact that there are greater social injustices in the world doesn't mean that this is any more fair. I agree that it would be a stretch and preposterous to call it a real "social injustice" however, it is still pretty lame of GW to charge so much more for pretty much no reason and then try and tell other companies that they cant sell their product to a certain group of people. Your argument is like saying because some people murder other people, it's perfectly alright to steal a bag of chips. While it's not nearly as bad, it's still wrong. And please, from your arguments, I can tell you know next to nothing about science or medicine, so don't try and pretend like you know what you are talking about.


So now we are "entitled" for expecting companies to obey the trade laws of the countries in which they do business?

I humbly draw your eminence's attention to the Sony Vs Eddy Stevens court case.

The crux? Sony was found to be illegally forcing trade restrictions on Australian customers therefore it was deemed acceptable action for said customers to both install Mod chips AND market them.

but then I must be ignorant of capitalism to expect the laws of my country to mean anything on the international stage right? After all we all know the only law that matters is the law that governs Cedar Falls right?

I agree with you. However, I think it's pretty much impossible to change people's minds at this point. This thread is pretty much full of trolls and people who just want to sit around and have a little intellectual circle jerk and pretend like they know what they are talking about. I think I'm done with this. Have fun people.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

Billyjoeray, that's a bit harsh: take at a look at your own post before calling someone a troll. Whilst I disagree with Wittdooley, let's maintain a civil argument; anything else won't help us, and I think we need support from our Northern Hemisphere gamers.

Anyway, this is what I am on about (how we're being screwed over):

10 Ork Boy £15.50(UK) $24.75(USA) $41(Aus)
Battlewagon £38.50(UK) $62(USA) $103(Aus)
Blood Angel Battalion £60(UK) $100(USA) $160(Aus)
Beastmen Battalion £56.50(UK) $90(USA) $151(Aus)
Island of Blood £61.50(UK) $99(USA) $165(Aus)
Orc & Goblin Army Book £22.50(UK) $37.25(USA) $ (Aus)
Dreadknight £33(UK) $53.75(USA) $90(Aus)
Realm of Battle Boards £155 (UK) $290(USA) $450(Aus)
Ex.com 19/5/11 10.23am (London time)
$1 (Aus) = $1.064(US)
$1 (Aus) = £0.658(UK)

[DarkSphere]

As a UK based independent webstore we do a large amount of our business to Australia and that will all have to cease when the new terms and condition come in to effect (we will still be able to send other products such as Warmachine, Malifaux, etc).

Not only will Independents such as ourselves be restricted to just Europe but from the 1st June we won't be able to get releases in foreign languages until 3-8 weeks after they are officially released thanks to GW's new policy...

We will of course still have our shop in central London so if any of you guys are ever near the London Eye then pop in, say 'hi' and save some money!

[wittdooley]

Wittdooley you are probably the most ignorant troll I have seen in a while. Your ridiculous cliched straw man arguments about the fact that there are greater social injustices in the world doesn't mean that this is any more fair. I agree that it would be a stretch and preposterous to call it a real "social injustice" however, it is still pretty lame of GW to charge so much more for pretty much no reason and then try and tell other companies that they cant sell their product to a certain group of people. Your argument is like saying because some people murder other people, it's perfectly alright to steal a bag of chips. While it's not nearly as bad, it's still wrong. And please, from your arguments, I can tell you know next to nothing about science or medicine, so don't try and pretend like you know what you are talking about.



You should probably read both my posts again, in addition to your own. You're the one that called this GW pricing discrepancy an injustice. I pointed out that it is NOT an injustice. While the dictionary definition allows that unfairness plays a part in injustice, it's fairly widely accepted that when we use the term today it is in regards to the infringements on one's human rights. I'm fairly certain there is no "right to buy plastic men at a price I deem fair" covered under the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

You yourself admit that it's simply "lame." Their "lameness" in this instance stems from UK retailers severely undercutting their business overseas. Further, that undercutting would seem to be infringing more on the UK fair trade laws that people keep addressing more than GW dictating the pricing structure for their own product.

I think you also need to recheck your definitions of both "troll" and "ignorant." Bringing up reasoned counter-arguments isn't trolling. I don't belittle people. I don't call people names. I provide thoughtful responses and admit areas and points that I either A) don't know about, or B) am wrong about; these previous qualities are the antithesis of both a "troll" and someone that is "ignorant." On the contrary, you provide very little in terms of reasoned thought, name call, and claim to know what I do and do not know anything about.



I agree with you. However, I think it's pretty much impossible to change people's minds at this point. This thread is pretty much full of trolls and people who just want to sit around and have a little intellectual circle jerk and pretend like they know what they are talking about. I think I'm done with this. Have fun people.

Well that's a relief for all of us. You've added nothing to this conversation that many of us have tried to keep civil and thoughtful. If you don't come back I'm sure we'll all miss your lovely colloquialisms and flair for in-depth social commentary.

[daboarder]

To Whitdooley,


You mention that we keep talking about GW violating UK fair trade laws.....PLEASE learn some geography before typing. despite being part of the commonwealth Australia IS NOT part of the UK.

[wittdooley]

To Whitdooley,


You mention that we keep talking about GW violating UK fair trade laws.....PLEASE learn some geography before typing. despite being part of the commonwealth Australia IS NOT part of the UK.

Very aware. But a UK based company undercutting another UK based company by selling to Australia would seem to violate those UK fair trade laws--unless I'm mistaken and Maelstrom and Wayland are not in the UK. I'm not sure where you got the impression that I thought Australia was part of the UK; never have I even remotely alluded to that.

Let's also be clear. I've no problem with either Wayland or Maelstrom. I've ordered from Wayland before and I plan on making a BaneLegions order from Maelstrom. But in selling to International Customers (and in particular Aussies) at UK prices, when GW has a different pricing structure (regardless of how unfair and out of touch it may presently be) for Australia, would seem--and notice I use seem; I always have. I don't know enough about the specifics of the UK/EU fair trade laws to be positive, despite having read through both-- to violate those very same Fair Trade laws that people keep claiming GW is violating. I'd love for someone that has that specific knowledge to chime in to better inform us.

Despite what many seem to think or want, we're not all the ugly, ignorant, entitled Americans that it seems very popular to paint us out to be.

[addamsfamily36]

The subject of breached UK fair trade law is bit of an iffy one.

The office of fair trading or OFT's main job is to make markets work well for consumers. However it has to do it/enforce it in a way which ensures vigorous competition between fair trading buisness's and competitors.

GW might feel that by allowing discount stockists to sell to Australia and other southern countries that they are allowing their Australia business to be undercut by independant stockists.

Now technically these stockist's are both customers and competitors of GW which causes a bit of a grey area.

If GW and the independent stockists agreed on a Cartel ( a fixed selling price ), then the pricing would level out across GW and the Independant stockists.

As it's not in the interest of the discount stores to agree to a fixed overseas price, GW possibly (i say possibly as i have no idea) have decided to limit oversea sales as a means to balance the market.

So in an odd way, they could ( again im speculating) be of the opinion that they are losing out and are using a method to make the southern market more balance which is "technically" in line with the purpose of Fair trade.

However i agree it looks dodgey and they could have discussed the matter first with discount stockists and made a proposed agreement. But again i can't specify enough how this is just a proposal and is by no means a "I am 100 percent right statement". I'm just providing information on my understanding of the fair trade laws and how this situation could be a result of competitive trading.

[Daemonette666]

It is rumoured to be Argentina and Brazil, not the southern hemisphere and it has more to do with Argentinian and Brazilian taxes than GWs profit motive. We don't know the specifics either, GW are also opening a new Asian production facility possibly in Australia in the next 18 months we don't know how that will affect the situation.

You would be better of waiting until the announcement and being in posession of some of the facts before launching an over emotional campaign like this. You know nothing at this point, Maelstrom have told you nothing other than that something is happening and they cannot commend on it until Monday. Get angry then, not now.
I was told that GW is already producing some miniatures and boxed sets being produced in limited runs in Sydney, as part of the process to start production on a larger scale in OZ. It has not had any effect, such as reducing the coast of miniatures, and I do not think ever will. It might make them even more expensive as GW could use the excuse that the expense incurred in setting up the manufacturing facility has to be passed onto "us" the consumers, and they are sure to blame the expense of transporting the raw materials (most of which can be bought here) to Australia as well.

[TheRise]

I'm sorry, I'm clearly not expressing myself well enough. Did I ever say this practice was fair? I don't think I did. If so, please quote me and I will stand corrected. My point is not that this is a fair practice, I'm in no position to judge that and neither is anyone else since we don't know the cost break downs of GW. But, no it probably isn't fair. My point is SO WHAT? Thats the way the whole damn world works. What's not fair is the price of wheat tripling in year so people can't afford to buy bread. What's not fair is an aids epidemic in Africa. What's not fair is the western nations arbitarily intervening in some conflicts whilst turning a blind eye to repression and genocide elsewhere. The world is so damned messed up because people would rather campaign about the price of stupid plastic little men and worry about their own narrow definitions of 'fair'. And no, this is not a personal attack of the moral fibre of BoLS members, I'm just saying that there is something fundamentally wrong with our society and I'm trying to point out that perhaps there are more important things in life to worry and moan about.

If I'm coming across as confrontational then that is not my intent and I apologise, but I just get so ticked off with people moaning about percieved injustices, when actually there is nothing really wrong in the big scheme of things. I joined this forum to discuss the positives of my hobby and share my love of it with like minded individuals, but in the last month there must have been at least 6 different threads about price increases. The threads should consist of 'GW put prices up, here is what your next fix will cost you'. End of conversation, move on, talk about something else. You don't want to pay it fair enough, but do you really need to tell the whole world about it?

Sorry if i came across rude and ignorant. But trust me I do know what unfair means. Having my Mother die when I was 2 was unfair, my Dad havign anger management problems and getting arested every toher week is unfair, getting Ostracized from my family because of my sexuality is unfair, me having to provide food for myself and pay off my rent at the age of 17 is unfair, my brother leaving to go to ireland and we haven't spoken in ages is unfair, getting beaten up a fair amount of the time is unfair. But then I look at those poor kids out in Africa and remember how lucky I actualy am. I do know what unfair is. Wargaming is one of the only things that I can do to take my mind away from these things, to have a safe haven. But these costs are gonna make it more difficult than it already is, and I will ahve to quit it, and go back to the nightmare world that we live in.
yes maybe it isn't as unfair as those things, and i wasn't trying to compare it to that. I just now have nothing that i can saty with and just forget about everythign else. Now this probably isn't just me, I know loads of other gamers who have had fairly ****ty lives due to buullying, deaths etc. and Gaming was there place to think about something else. Now these costs are makign it harder on everybody, and for some people it is harder than it is for others.

[Wildeybeast]

it is still pretty lame of GW to charge so much more for pretty much no reason

Reason 1 - GW has to pay export tax to send products out of the EU.
Reason 2- GW has to pay substantial shipping costs to send said products half way round the world.
Reason 3 - GW then has to import tax to get said products into Australia/NZ/Brazil etc.
You can also add any extra point of sale taxes (do Australia have VAT for example?)

Now whether all that adds up to double the price it costs to sell things in the UK is anyone's guess. GW are certainly still making a profit in there somewhere, no doubt, but it does explain why products cost considerably in other parts of the world than they do in the UK.

Also, people seem to keep quoting UK/EU trade laws and forgetting these do not apply outside of said areas. The OFT has no jurisdiction in Oz. Also, I don't see there being much illegal in preventing someone from selling a product that you own copyright for cheaper than you are. Clearly there is some issue with overseas sales as if GW really wanted to they could just stop selling to independent retailers altogether, rather than just forbidding them from exporting out of the EU.

[Wildeybeast]

Sorry if i came across rude and ignorant. But trust me I do know what unfair means. Having my Mother die when I was 2 was unfair, my Dad havign anger management problems and getting arested every toher week is unfair, getting Ostracized from my family because of my sexuality is unfair, me having to provide food for myself and pay off my rent at the age of 17 is unfair, my brother leaving to go to ireland and we haven't spoken in ages is unfair, getting beaten up a fair amount of the time is unfair. But then I look at those poor kids out in Africa and remember how lucky I actualy am. I do know what unfair is. Wargaming is one of the only things that I can do to take my mind away from these things, to have a safe haven. But these costs are gonna make it more difficult than it already is, and I will ahve to quit it, and go back to the nightmare world that we live in.
yes maybe it isn't as unfair as those things, and i wasn't trying to compare it to that. I just now have nothing that i can saty with and just forget about everythign else. Now this probably isn't just me, I know loads of other gamers who have had fairly ****ty lives due to buullying, deaths etc. and Gaming was there place to think about something else. Now these costs are makign it harder on everybody, and for some people it is harder than it is for others.

Look dude, I'm sorry your life sucks, really I am. But you can't expect a multinational to lower/not increase prices because it will negatively impact on a few people's lives. They just don't care that much. Rather than see this as a negative, look for the positives. You are going to save a whole bunch of money you can actually use to better your life. And there are plenty of escapist things you can do for next to nothing. Reading for example, or a sport like football. And you can still play with what you already have.

[TheRise]

Look dude, I'm sorry your life sucks, really I am. But you can't expect a multinational to lower/not increase prices because it will negatively impact on a few people's lives. They just don't care that much. Rather than see this as a negative, look for the positives. You are going to save a whole bunch of money you can actually use to better your life. And there are plenty of escapist things you can do for next to nothing. Reading for example, or a sport like football. And you can still play with what you already have.

I do lots of Martial Arts, but I still get beat up. I don't realy like footbal... load of fallign on the floor, more running. I know I will save money... but there is no harm in trying to make GW see sense. If we get our message through I'm sure they may not do as mnay increases. I may just stick with Warmachine and Infinty for now.
But I hope you can see why some people are getting rather annoyed about this. There may be some reason in there, but I can see that there is not too much reason, perhaps if they were too lower thier prices more people will get into and enjoy the game. Trust me it is early-late teens when they buy all thier stuff. To build thier army. But now they cant afford it. And not very mnay 30+ year olds are going to start in the game.
For the Aussies however... thier is E-bay, but that is sometimes not the best option. But me and some amtes of mine, who know Aussie gamers, are thinking of buying the boxes ourselves, then shipping them over to people over there. (Half and half shipping cost) But maybe more details once we work out if it will possible or not.
But Wildeybeast... truce? I forgive you... sorry, but I juts don't want to go back to this world, that at the moment is in one of the biggest messes I have heard of.

[addamsfamily36]

Also, people seem to keep quoting UK/EU trade laws and forgetting these do not apply outside of said areas. The OFT has no jurisdiction in Oz. Also, I don't see there being much illegal in preventing someone from selling a product that you own copyright for cheaper than you are. Clearly there is some issue with overseas sales as if GW really wanted to they could just stop selling to independent retailers altogether, rather than just forbidding them from exporting out of the EU.

But the OFT can have power outside of the UK and the EU. The OFT regularly work alongside international organisations such as the International Competition Network (ICN), the International Consumer Protection Enforcement Network (ICPEN), the OECD, the CPC to name a few. If there was a fair trade problem which originated in the UK (due to it being a UK based company) that effected international trade, then the OFT could work with an Australian body as a collaboration to enforce or come to an agreement to a Fair trade agreement.

Quoting that GW have broken any Fair trade laws or that the OFT have direct power overseas is wrong i agree, But it doesn't mean that the OFT have no input or voice outside of the UK or EU. And if they felt that fair trade was not in place, then they could work alongside a foreign body to establish fair trade.

[Wildeybeast]

I do lots of Martial Arts, but I still get beat up. I don't realy like footbal... load of fallign on the floor, more running. I know I will save money... but there is no harm in trying to make GW see sense. If we get our message through I'm sure they may not do as mnay increases. I may just stick with Warmachine and Infinty for now.
But I hope you can see why some people are getting rather annoyed about this. There may be some reason in there, but I can see that there is not too much reason, perhaps if they were too lower thier prices more people will get into and enjoy the game. Trust me it is early-late teens when they buy all thier stuff. To build thier army. But now they cant afford it. And not very mnay 30+ year olds are going to start in the game.
For the Aussies however... thier is E-bay, but that is sometimes not the best option. But me and some amtes of mine, who know Aussie gamers, are thinking of buying the boxes ourselves, then shipping them over to people over there. (Half and half shipping cost) But maybe more details once we work out if it will possible or not.
But Wildeybeast... truce? I forgive you... sorry, but I juts don't want to go back to this world, that at the moment is in one of the biggest messes I have heard of.

There is no harm in trying, I never had issue with that. Best of luck to you. After all, if you do get prices reduced I benefit too! I just got annoyed with people making out that GW owed them something and filling up half the forums with it. No need to call a truce, as far as I'm concerned this is only a heated exchange of opinions in an adult evnovrionment. I never let internet debate get personal, life is too short for that right?

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

Just found out that GW will be preventing the US to ship to Australia.

[Uncle Nutsy]

Well, since somehow I can't leave a comment on GW's facebook page, i'll stick it here.


Quite the excuse, GW. So when an independent store doesn't invest in growing the hobby overseas, how does that affect you?

There are on orders of magnitude other online retails that sell overseas, and they don't invest in the areas that buy from them. That course of action has not affected growth in their respective hobbies one iota, and the small communities that have spawned from this have created their own growth.

In the recent time i've been watching, the behaviour of GW has become more and more restrictive towards everyone.

[Aldramelech]

Oh look, GW F&%$ing people over again, there's a surprise...............

And look, Fan Boys on BOLS sticking up for them, shocking............

I feel for you guys abroad, I really do, but there's no point complaining here. There are people on this forum that would stick up for GW if they trippled their prices and only sold to white people.

[daboarder]

I honestly cannot believe some people think the disparity in GW pricing between Australia and America is SOLELY due to import taxes?

I mean come on people Australian import taxes don't cause GW to double their [rices in OZ. If that were the case I'm pretty sure the government wouldn't be in dept and ANY importer would refuse to import into this country. Pull your head in people.

EDIT: perhaps I should put it in terms they'll understand. It is NOW CHEAPER to buy a FW krieg army than a GW cadian one......How many of you can actually believe that import taxes and wages in a dozen stores justify that price?

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Also don't forget its more cost saving for GW to pay staff in Australia as the Pound is worth more than the AUS $$$.
It's not about the Taxes people, it's not about there staff either..red shirts are expendable. How many red shirts have a last name on there name tags???

GW is just greedy thats all. As Aldramelech mentioned, its sad to see so many fan-boys of GW stomping there feet and turning blue over supporting GW.
Makes you really laugh at them. Sad

[Jive Tyrant]

I honestly cannot believe some people think the disparity in GW pricing between Australia and America is SOLELY due to import taxes? ... How many of you can actually believe that import taxes and wages in a dozen stores justify that price?[/B]

Well if you factor in the smaller potential market size, then I do. Economy of scale is quite important to profitable business, you know.

[daboarder]

Well if you factor in the smaller potential market size, then I do. Economy of scale is quite important to profitable business, you know.

Really? please explain to me why then this wasn't an issue when the prices were first established?

[Uncle Nutsy]

I don't see GW being greedy.

I do however, see them as being utterly short sighted and just plain RETARDED.

They're trying to protect the old model of business, and that is the brick and mortar joints. I've seen every explanation under the sun regarding this and it's all stemming from willful misunderstanding.

A lot of online only places are going to disappear and so will their customer base. Sure, some might turn to the established stores but I doubt they're going to get much business when the (new) potential customers see the price difference.

I forecast a lot of full army sales on ebay within the next few weeks.

[Necron2.0]

Just a thought, but for those here who have Ebay seller accounts, anyone else see an opportunity here to make some change at GW's expense (especially if you happen to have a whole sale account)?

[eldargal]

Yep, buy from Wayland/Maelstrom with their 40% discount (or even regular UK RRP), stick it on eBay at say 25% RRP/a little over UK RRP+ shipping. I'm sure it will happen a lot.

[DarkLink]

How many red shirts have a last name on there name tags???


I don't think I've ever seen a last name on an employee name tag:p

[daboarder]

Yep, buy from Wayland/Maelstrom with their 40% discount (or even regular UK RRP), stick it on eBay at say 25% RRP/a little over UK RRP+ shipping. I'm sure it will happen a lot.

You know thats really really tempting.......

[Uncle Nutsy]

Just a thought, but for those here who have Ebay seller accounts, anyone else see an opportunity here to make some change at GW's expense (especially if you happen to have a whole sale account)?



I'm already looking there for my next DE addition.

[Necron2.0]

Yep, buy from Wayland/Maelstrom with their 40% discount (or even regular UK RRP), stick it on eBay at say 25% RRP/a little over UK RRP+ shipping. I'm sure it will happen a lot.

Hmm. For now, I'll probably limit it to divest myself of some armies I was planning to build. With what GW has been doing, I kinda made that decision already, but now I'll wait until they have implement their draconian rules - more money to me that way. I'll probably just keep enough to play the odd game from time to time, but I certainly won't go beyond the basics. The bloom is definitely off the rose for me towards this game system.

[bodhimind]

I'm not sure if this plays into GW's decision or not, but in Brazil, you cannot legally do business there without having at the very least an office with employees in the country. Our company just had to open an office there for the very reason that we want to do business there... and we make internet games.