Bloodbries vs Incubi

[oldone]

As the title suggests i was wondering what people thought of the 2 dark eldar elite combat squads.
I love both of the models (coverted ones obvs for bloodbreis) so this is going to be purely for effectiveness in game terms
so thoughts?

[eldargal]

Incubi kill things with good armour saves, Bloodbrides trap death star units in combat while the rest of your forces kill other things. At least that is how I use them.

[isotope99]

Personally a lot of what bloodbrides do well, wyches also do well plus are cheaper and scoring so I'd keep the wyches as troops and use incubi as elites (just make sure to run them with someone with a phantasm grenade launcher like an archon or the baron).

[Cheese]

I don't think you can compare them at all. They both excel at very different roles. Incubi are for killing Marines and non-storm shield termies and other things like that. Bloodbrides are for holding up big nasty units and slowly thinning them down while the rest of your army goes about their jobs or for escorting an anti-IC/MC Archon to keep him alive.

I think that Bloodbrides are better than wyches for smaller squads, allowing for more special weapons but still packing a decent punch. I run 7 Bloodbrides with 2 Shardnet and Impalers and a Syren with a Venom Blade to join my Archon. If I were to run wyches I would need 10 to get that all important 2nd special weapon, but this would mean that my Archon would no longer fit in the Raider, thus, eliminating my need to take any wyches/bloodbrides.

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

Personally a lot of what bloodbrides do well, wyches also do well plus are cheaper and scoring so I'd keep the wyches as troops and use incubi as elites (just make sure to run them with someone with a phantasm grenade launcher like an archon or the baron).

Yeah I agree isotope, the only real benefit of Wych's is one more attack and greater number of Wych weapons... Oh i didnt think of that Cheese :L

For Incubi:
Power weapons
High initative (against marines and other such armies, quite standard for Deldar/Eldar though)
Incubi Suits... Power armour is awesome for Deldar (especially with a pain token)
Klaivex (great WS, BS, A, and I for only 10 points)
Klaivex powers (I only see the need to take Onslaught myself)
Bloodstones (never used them, but an AP 3 flamer is pritty awesome... Shame it's Str 3 :L)
Demi-Klaives

Against Incubi:
No access to Grenades (compared to Wyches/Bloodbrides)
Grey Knight Halberds/Hammerhand combo... = Incubi fail
No shooting (minus a Bloodstone)... But thats not really a problem
10 points more than a Bloodbride and 12 more points than a wych
No Agonisers/Venom blades... But that makes sense and fits the fluff (compared to Wyches/Bloodbrides)
No Combat drugs (compared to Wyches/Bloodbrides)

There are probably other things that are For and Against, but thats all I can think of :P

[Necron_Lord]

I pretty much agree with what has been said.

Pros for Incubi - WS 5, S 4 power weapon, 3+ armor save, made for killing MEQ Troops, can glance RA 10 vehicles, good against units with good armor saves and no invulnerable saves

Cons for Incubi - no invulnerable saves, expensive, no plasma grenades, suck against MCs with T 6+ (need a 6 to wound), no real ranged weapons

Pros for Bloodbrides - I 6, 4++ save in CC, combat drugs, syren with agoniser or venom blade, plasma grenades, good tarpit against units with CC attacks which ignore armor saves, pretty good against horde due to high number of attacks, wych weapons, splinter pistols

Cons for Bloodbrides - T 3 Sv 6+ when not in CC, S 3 normal attacks

Bloodbrides are good anti-horde, anti-MC/IC tarpit, and anti-CC death star tarpit, but are more vulnerable to exploding transports, and getting shot in the open, and need haywire grenades to be effective against vehicles.

Incubi are meant for killing MEQ, Sanguinary Guard, Meganobz and such, but are not as good (as in surviving CC) against CC death stars, MCs, ICs, high T (6+) units, and need an IC with phantasm grenade launcher to attack first against units in cover. They survive exploding transports and bolter fire better though, especially with a pain token.

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

How'd I forget WS: 5 and S: 4 :L

[darthken]

im a big fan of incubi now, time and time again they have proved their usefullness in my games, though they usually end up dead, they more than make their points back

ive not had any luck with bloodbrides or wyches, ive watched them bounce hopelessly off IG, eldar guardians, tau fire warriors, and heaven help them if they get anywhere near something resembling a space marine.

[thecactusman17]

They are both fairly good units. The primary difference is what they are supposed to do in the game. Incubi are great for being a wrecking ball unit but can't manage finesse. You don't throw them into combat, you throw them through a combat so that you don't take any wounds back from powerfists or other big nasty things. Then you get them into cover and hide until they can get into CC again.

Bloodbrides are the opposite--you put them into combat, and by The Dark Suns that's where you want them to stay until they get a pain token or two. Bloodbrides are going to be like Wyches, but where Wyches should come in to mop a unit up over the course of two turns, Bloodbrides come in to really lay it down on a big tarpit unit.

So between these, which unit is the best?

Neither. The answer is C: 20 Hellions with the Baron and a Haemonculus attached at the start of the game. They are jump infantry, are S4 standing and possess combat drugs, have grenades, can wreck light armor and overwhelm Space Marines and Guard. They also get a 3+ cover save. Most importantly, they get Hit and Run so when you don't crush through the first time, you jump back out and slam back in especially if you manage to get that Furious Charge token.

This isn't quite as jokey as it sounds. With careful positioning you are easily capable of killing 85%-90% of units that could be put on the table against you with this setup.

[Cheese]

Incubi should not have the shooting. You should never take the Bloodstone. It's an expensive weapon and more often than not it will take you out of assault range, leaving the unit mostly alive and denying you a Pain Token.

Another thing, Haywire Grenades are not good. They are wasted points for something your Bloodbrides should not be doing; assaulting tanks. What if a Dreadnought assaults you? Well how tdid the Dreadnought catch you? You are Dark Eldar, if they're assaulting your troops with their Dreadnoughts, then you've probably lost anyway. But, just in case they do and you are actually winning, then fine. Their Dreadnought is now stuck in CC with your 2-3 Shardnet and Impalers dropping his attacks to like 1 or 2 and you have a 4++ save, so you should keep him there for the rest of the game, away from your other units and allowing your Dark Lances to be fired elsewhere.

I agree with Cactus, sort of (I run 2 units of 10), Hellions ftw.

[Necron_Lord]

Neither. The answer is C: 20 Hellions with the Baron and a Haemonculus attached at the start of the game. They are jump infantry, are S4 standing and possess combat drugs, have grenades, can wreck light armor and overwhelm Space Marines and Guard. They also get a 3+ cover save. Most importantly, they get Hit and Run so when you don't crush through the first time, you jump back out and slam back in especially if you manage to get that Furious Charge token.

This isn't quite as jokey as it sounds. With careful positioning you are easily capable of killing 85%-90% of units that could be put on the table against you with this setup.

Rock, paper, scissors, man!! Hellions suck vs mech that doesn't have RA 10 (assault is their only way to deal with mech) and you have to be in range to assault them as well. Any army with mobile or deep striking templates can hose them and negate their 3+ cover save awesomeness.

That is the beauty of Dark Eldar, there is no auto-pick and each unit can be useful or not depending upon the circumstances.

[helvexis]

That is the beauty of Dark Eldar, there is no auto-pick and each unit can be useful or not depending upon the circumstances.

except the Dias of destruction >< that piece of badly worded *** pancake will never be fielded! ... Maybe apocalypse where nobody cares and it's fluffy :-)

But yeah incubi and bloodbrides/wytches have different roles depends what your going for ;-) but this does mean your not taking a truborn squad with 2 S.cannons 3 shard carbines and a venom ;-) lol

[Necron_Lord]

except the Dias of destruction >< that piece of badly worded *** pancake will never be fielded! ... Maybe apocalypse where nobody cares and it's fluffy :-)

You got me. That thing is so overpriced for what you get, it never enters into my thoughts for DE units to pick.

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

I have only played 2 games so far with my DE but in both games my Incubi have slain about 40-50 space marines by themselves. I run 8 of them with a full squad of wyches but the wyches never get to swing a knife cause the Incubi just rip the whole squad apart.

Wyches or Bloodbrides just dont have the punch to wipe out squads like the incubi, but as mentioned thats not what they are ment to do. wyches and bloodbrides are ment to hold up(or tarpit) a squad till another squad comes to help.

I think you have to have Incubi to support the wyches or brides or they will eventually die especially against powerarmor

good question

[eldargal]

What this thread illustrates is one of the beauties of the Dark Eldar codex, nearly all the units are effective it comes down to personal choice and gamestyle regarding which to take. I for example would take Wyches and Incubi over Hellions, I've not had much luck with Hellions. The other DE players in my group have different opinions, one never touches Wyches, the other swears by Hellions etc.

As to the Dias of Destruction, it isn't poorly worded, it is just expensive.

[Necron2.0]

[Off Topic]

Bloodbries? Isn't that some form of ... cheese?

Sorry, couldn't resist. Tried for days, but just couldn't.

[/Off Topic]

[Ghoulio]

What this thread illustrates is one of the beauties of the Dark Eldar codex, nearly all the units are effective it comes down to personal choice and gamestyle regarding which to take. I for example would take Wyches and Incubi over Hellions, I've not had much luck with Hellions. The other DE players in my group have different opinions, one never touches Wyches, the other swears by Hellions etc.

As to the Dias of Destruction, it isn't poorly worded, it is just expensive.

This is exactly how I feel as well and why this is my Fav Codex GW has put out to date.

As for the question in hand for some reason my Incubi do a whole lot of nothing almost every game I use them. For some reason they do nothing other then under-preform. Don't know why, maybe it's my horrible rolling for them (which, other then saves and feel no pain, I DO roll terribly for them). I find my regular unit's of wyches ALWAYS out preform them every last game, so I can only assume the bloodbrides would do even better. Once I finish painting my 1500pt army (just finishing off 3 Ravagers and 10 wyches to go!) they are a unit I totally plan on trying out.

[w7west]

Haywire grenades.

Bloodbrides > Incubi

Venoms kill everything anyway I prefer to stack anti tank. haywires = best antitank in the book.

[Kawauso]

Haywire grenades are really good, but I can't see them helping against walkers, what with needed 6s to hit and only getting 1 attack per model.

Not trying to say walkers have any bearing on how Incubi function comparatively, as they don't. :)

More on topic, I have to agree with some of the earlier posts saying it really comes down to preference.
I don't have a DE army, but I'm planning on starting one when I can, and I'm having one hell of a time trying to figure out what units I want. The DE codex really, truly seems like one of the most interesting books in 40k right now, and one of the most balanced. Coupled with the new model range and...damn.

[thecactusman17]

Haywire is one of the better anti-walker CC options, actually. Especially considering that you don't have any strength doubling or 2D6 armor pen in CC units outside of your MCs and Archon. Get a unit of 10 Wyches into a combat with a walker, they will have one turn of semi-difficult combat and then the opponent's combat phase will likely go your way, freeing them up to go against something else.

Also, Hellions with the Baron have a potentially S7 weapon in addition to any drugs upgrades.

[helvexis]

Haywires are good way to slow up those walkers and with wytches you make half the saves and just keep on dropping bits off till the walker is scrap :-)

Yes Deldar are definitely one of the most balanced codex to come out recently all the gw fan**nkery went into the model range :-)

Personally I play them as a medium-close shooting army with access to amazing melée support but then I'm not too into griblies :-p

[ursvamp]

I just dropped by to join in on spreading the love over the DE codex :D

In the old codex I used to run incubis against Chaos Space Marines, and they Never let me down ;) and they only got better and cheaper in the new codex (Exempting access to grenades). And I've slain a couple of trygons with them (and lord) in my days too ;), mind you, so they're not useless on T6+MegaCritters either!

Well. Bye! =D

(PS: also wyches are really good! Haven't used BBs so much as to give any experience worth of them. Well..)

[ShotDownMind]

haywire grenades Are good!

I dont run blood brides but rely on wych squads with haemonculus to do most of the heavy lifting of most situations. Haywires are an absolute must.

I agree that wych squads shouldent necessarily target walkers, but they do well against them. Haywires are priceless vs heavy mech armies, IG in particular. One well placed wych squad can force newb generals onto the board edge or even into reserve.

:(

[ShotDownMind]

also neither wyches or bloodbrides really tear through MEQ, and incubi are much scarier in general. I use incubi/archon to just rip the troops right out of peoples lists, while wyches can tie up whole armies, and score.

:eek:

[Anggul]

I use Incubi because I love them and I can basically point them at a unit and say: 'Kill' and it has to go really badly for me for it to fail.

My friend's Bloodbrides work very well too, they put out a lot of attacks and can have a lot of special weapons, and combined with combat drugs throw down so many wounds, especially with a Syren with Agoniser. They can also be considerably more capable of surviving the returning strikes than Incubi if you're up against a few power weapons, not to mention shardnets lessening the number of attacks made in the first place. I'd say the Bloodbrides are much more flexible, but the Incubi are super-efficient at what they do.

[w7west]

I feel like dark eldar can already destroy most things on foot simply by fielding 6 venoms. This is why I don't really see a need to incubi in my army. It is much simpler for me to unload 70 poison shots into something than to move out there and get into assault without being smashed the following shooting phase.

Bloodbrides may not 1shot squads the way incubi do, but they will tie up crucial squads for as long as you want, take out most troop squads easily, haywire grenades, haywire grenades, haywire grenades, are amazing at multiassault, haywire grenades, they are pretty cheap for what they do, haywire grenades.