New to the game, and am putting together GK lists

[bknesal]

Hey everyone, I just recently picked up WH40k, and I decided to go with Grey Knights. I have put together a few army lists, but I have no idea if they would be effective or not, so I was hoping for some critiquing. My general strategy (in order of priority) is to have Draigo with paladins, interceptors, Coteaz with warband, and dreadknights (although I'm not sure if the warband or the dreadknight should be of higher priority). Please note that I will most often be battling an Ork army with a Tyranids army as a close second. Anywho, here are the lists I've put together so far:



1000 Points:

-HQ-
Draigo@275

-Troops-
5 Paladins@295 w/ 1 Psycannon and 1 Hammer
5 Paladins@295 w/ 1 Psycannon and 1 Hammer

This puts me at 865 points, but honestly I don't know what else I should add to it.



1500 Points:

-HQ-
Draigo@275
Coteaz@100

-Troops-
10 Paladins@680 w/ 1 Incinerator, BH Banner, Apothecary, and Psybolt Ammo
Inquisitorial Warband@121 w/ 3 Multi-Melta Servitors, 8 Storm Bolter Warrior Acolytes, and 1 Jokaero Weaponsmith

-Fast Attack-
10 Interceptors@320 w/ 2 Psycannons, 1 Hammer, Psybolt Ammo, and 2 MC weapons on the Justicar

This comes to 1491 points. It took me a while to think of something that worked at 1500 points for some reason.



2000 Points:

-HQ-
Draigo@275
Coteaz@100

-Troops-
10 Paladins@680 w/ 1 Incinerator, BH Banner, Apothecary, and Psybolt Ammo
Inquisitorial Warband@121 w/ 3 Multi-Melta Servitors, 8 Storm Bolter Warrior Acolytes, and 1 Jokaero Weaponsmith

-Fast Attack-
10 Interceptors@320 w/ 2 Psycannons, 1 Hammer, Psybolt Ammo, and 2 MC weapons on the Justicar

-Heavy Support-
1 Dreadknight w/ Heavy Incinerator, Hammer, and Teleporter
1 Dreadknight w/ Heavy Psycannon, Hammer, and Teleporter

This comes out to 1991 points. I was trying to figure out if it would be better to drop the second dreadknight in exchange for more interceptors, but didn't come to any conclusion. As a result, I just left it as 2 dreadknights.



I welcome all comments for what I have presented above and appreciate any advice.

EDIT: I would like to point out that although I'm just starting, I have read all the rules and such, so that shouldn't be an issue (admittedly, I don't have experience using the rules). One question though: in the GK Codex it says that the decision to combat squad, as well as which units go into each squad, must be made when the unit is deployed. Does this mean that the squad must be split when they are deployed, or that the allocation of each member into each sub-squad must be decided when they are deployed?
EDIT2: I removed the MC on the incinerators as I realized it does nothing. I also know I should add some Halberds in there. I intend to do this, but I haven't figured out where or how many yet...

[DarkLink]

Paladins get halberds for free. They're too expensive on Strike Squads and Interceptors to be worth it.

Combat squads are done during deployment as far as Gks are concerned. This means both physically placing them as two separate units and deciding which members go in which squads.

Driago is a decent way to go, but only in larger games. I would just play him and the Paladins as a normal GM and Terminators in the 1000pt list, then use the points you saved to fit in another unit.

Coteaz is also only really worth it for multiple henchmen squads, and the one you have listed isn't great. Those henchmen are very very fragile, especially with no vehicle, and honestly it's not worth the points to upgrade them to be tougher. Take smaller squads and hide them in a Razorback or a Rhino, depending on whether or not you need to shoot out of fireports.


Beyond that, you can do some pretty decent lists with a core of Driago, Paladins (get more than 10 in larger games, though), Interceptors and Dreadknights. I would also get a couple Dreadnoughts with 2 TL Autocannons, because they are an amazing fire support unit and exactly what every GK army needs, literally. Buy that and you'll have enough flexibility with your models that you can play around with different lists without too much trouble.

[bknesal]

Paladins get halberds for free. They're too expensive on Strike Squads and Interceptors to be worth it.

Combat squads are done during deployment as far as Gks are concerned. This means both physically placing them as two separate units and deciding which members go in which squads.

Driago is a decent way to go, but only in larger games. I would just play him and the Paladins as a normal GM and Terminators in the 1000pt list, then use the points you saved to fit in another unit.

Coteaz is also only really worth it for multiple henchmen squads, and the one you have listed isn't great. Those henchmen are very very fragile, especially with no vehicle, and honestly it's not worth the points to upgrade them to be tougher. Take smaller squads and hide them in a Razorback or a Rhino, depending on whether or not you need to shoot out of fireports.


Beyond that, you can do some pretty decent lists with a core of Driago, Paladins (get more than 10 in larger games, though), Interceptors and Dreadknights. I would also get a couple Dreadnoughts with 2 TL Autocannons, because they are an amazing fire support unit and exactly what every GK army needs, literally. Buy that and you'll have enough flexibility with your models that you can play around with different lists without too much trouble.

Okay, so maybe I'll just make like half (maybe more?) of the paladins have halberds.

The comments about the henchmen squad are what's concerning me. Are you saying I should drop the henchmen altogether and take something else (such as a strike squad)? Or maybe you mean to split it into 2 squads and throw them each into a vehicle?

I'll probably end up removing one of the dreadknights for a dreadnought based on what you said there for the 2000 point army. I hadn't even considered dreadnoughts for some reason.

[bknesal]

Okay, so I've found some time to revamp the 1500 points army. 1500 will be the primary points level I'll likely be playing at for at least a little while, so I'm going to focus on that for now. Basically I feel like I have 2 options: dreadknight or interceptors. I'm leaning toward interceptors as that gives me 6 more wounds than the knight in addition to the obvious additional firepower associated with 10 models compared to 1. Here are the two lists so far:


List 1

-HQ-
Draigo@275

-Troops-
10 Paladins@590 w/ 2 psycannons, 2 hammers, 1 sword, and 7 halberds
10 GKSS@ 2/ 1 psycannon

-Fast Attack-
10 Interceptors@290 w/ 2 psycannons and 1 hammer

-Heavy Support-
1 Dreadnought@135 w/ 2 TL Autocannons and Psybolt Ammo



List 2

-HQ-
Draigo@275

-Troops-
10 Paladins@590 w/ 2 psycannons, BH Banner, Psybolt Ammo, 2 hammers, 1 sword, and 7 halberds
10 GKSS@ 2/ 1 psycannon

-Heavy Support-
1 Dreadnought@135 w/ 2 TL Autocannons and Psybolt Ammo
1 Dreadknight@245 w/ heavy incinerator, hammer, and teleporter


I figured I was simply trying to just do too much with too few points available by adding Coteaz and his henchmen. I felt like I was spreading my focus by doing so, and ultimately reducing the synergy of my army.

I decided that going from 5 GK in the SS to 10 by dropping all the fancy upgrades on the paladins was probably the better move (correct me if I'm wrong on that one). I also decided that the hammer on the interceptors was probably more important than the second psycannon on the GKSS, however, I could move 1 pyscannon from the interceptors to the GKSS.

Like I said, I'm leaning towards having the interceptors over the DK, but the only downside to that is the slightly weaker paladins. Slightly weaker paladins are still paladins, so that might not make too much of a difference.

The only thing still bothering me is the lack of a BH Banner on the paladins in list 1...

[Denied]

I think the point really being made is to drop Draigo and Paladins in favor of a Grand Master and Terminators. This is significantly cheaper and will allow you to add additional psycannons to your GKSS.

The semi standard lists I am starting to see from GK players, in my local scene at least, consist of either a GM or Librarian for HQ ( with grenades and psychic powers respectively), 2-3 rifle dreads, 3ish 10 man GKSS with 2 psycannons a piece and between 7-10 terminators.

There is a reason for this, namely Paladins and Draigo are not worth the points your dumping into them when you can get a better set up with the GM and terminators (if you want grand strategy).

[Splug]

You should probably try to fill out the special weapon capacity in those squads. Paladins can carry two heavy weapons per 5 models in the squad; you probably want to take advantage of that if you're using them. They can also take master-crafted psycannons. Strike Squads can take one per 5.

Interceptors are an interesting unit. I have used them a couple games and I'm not really sold on whether I like them or not. They are probably better served as a platform for delivering incinerators than psycannons though - the infantry squads can get in range for psycannons just fine. Use the jump infantry to lurch in and set things on fire (remember - cover saves can't be taken against template weapons, so at S6/AP4 you have a weapon that will outright kill most eldar/dark eldar/tau/guard models on 2+. Tyranid/Ork infantry isn't exactly a fan of the incinerator either).

[Major Shultz]

Howdy!
Here are some thoughts...
Use your Draigo mini as a Grand Master....
1,475 pt Grey Knights with 25 more points to spend on whatever
HQ
210 Grand Master, Blind, Rad & Psychtock Grenades
Troops
475 10x Terminators, 2x Psycannon, Banner
260 10x GKSS, 2x Psycannon, Rhino
260 10x GKSS, 2x Psycannon, Rhino
Heavy
135 PsyRifle Dreadnought
135 PsyRifle Dreadnought

[DarkLink]

Henchmen units require a transport, as they're too fragile to stay out in the open. That's the only reason why 7pt storm bolters aren't really that great. Since henchmen are cheap and fragile, take small squads in vehicles with a couple plasma/melta. Either that, or stick DCA in a land raider/storm raven and kill stuff.


Interceptors are interesting. They're pretty good, but don't provide a rhino chassis to draw anti-tank fire and provide cover and protection. And since they're exposed outside of transports, they're only really good in large units due to their relative fragility, and a 300pt unit is a big investment in an already expensive army. I feel you need to design a list around them, they don't work too well just shoehorned into a GK list.

[bknesal]

Henchmen units require a transport, as they're too fragile to stay out in the open. That's the only reason why 7pt storm bolters aren't really that great. Since henchmen are cheap and fragile, take small squads in vehicles with a couple plasma/melta. Either that, or stick DCA in a land raider/storm raven and kill stuff.


Interceptors are interesting. They're pretty good, but don't provide a rhino chassis to draw anti-tank fire and provide cover and protection. And since they're exposed outside of transports, they're only really good in large units due to their relative fragility, and a 300pt unit is a big investment in an already expensive army. I feel you need to design a list around them, they don't work too well just shoehorned into a GK list.

Hmm. Maybe I'll have to make 2 lists: a paladin list and an interceptor list. The large point sink for them shouldn't be a big deal if they aren't fielded with paladins. We'll see how it goes though.

[DarkLink]

You don't necessarily have to do a pure Interceptor list, but you're right in that they don't quite mesh with Paladins. If your opponent has two targets, Interceptors and Paladins, guess which one all of his anti-infantry guns are shooting at? Taking Interceptors with lots of Paladins is just giving him an easy target.

[bknesal]

You don't necessarily have to do a pure Interceptor list, but you're right in that they don't quite mesh with Paladins. If your opponent has two targets, Interceptors and Paladins, guess which one all of his anti-infantry guns are shooting at? Taking Interceptors with lots of Paladins is just giving him an easy target.

Good point. Well this is just a preliminary list to get something together that can work with interceptors, but here goes:

-HQ-
GM@205 w/ Psycho & Rad Grenades

-Troops-
10-man Strike Squad@260 w/ 2 Psycannons and Rhino
10-man Strike Squad@280 w/ 2 Psycannons, Rhino, and Psybolt Ammo

-Fast Attack-
10 Interceptors@310 w/ 2 Psycannons, 1 Hammer, and Psybolt Ammo
10 Interceptors@310 w/ 2 Psycannons, 1 Hammer, and Psybolt Ammo

-Heavy Support-
Psyrifle Dreadnought@135


It's probably kind of cookie cutter, but it has much more raw manpower than my other lists. Also, this would probably do well to control where my opponent deep strikes considering there are 40 models with Warp Quake. Maybe Coteaz and a couple henchmen squads would be better than one of the strike squads? I'm not sure... Let me know what you think.

[DarkLink]

I think it depends on how your GM performs in that list. He might not fit in as well with strike squads as with terminators on foot. If you don't get too much benifit from him, then drop him and one GKSS. That gives you 500pts for Coteaz and 3 Rhino/Razorbacks filled with Acolytes, plus a second Psyrifle Dread. If you want to keep the GM, then your list looks fine as is.

[bknesal]

Okay, the purpose of the GM was because I felt like Grand Strategy could work well with interceptors, but trading that for simply more firepower probably wouldn't be a bad idea. Thanks for the help.

[DarkLink]

Yeah, it's an one or the other thing. I'd try both and see which one you like best, if you get the opportunity.