Do GKs have a chance against a Leaf Blower list

[Lucian Kain]

I'm not a fan of tailoring lists but if Grey Knights had to tailor a list against anyone it would be the IG Leaf Blower.My basic logic behide doing so is that if a GK list can beat the Leaf Blower it can compete with anything.My personal taste is slanted toward a pure GK list but that dosn't help the matter.

What would you consider to be an appropriate list to get any sort of competion going against that IG build?

What style/approach would it take:-
-Rapid Assault,getting amongst enemy lines?
-trying to out shoot with bulk Rifle Dreads?
-mass Infintry?

What adverse effects would the build incur to achieve such a list?

I've got ideas about a list designed around supressing one half of the army(or the centre of the parking lot) and scouting in on a refused flank/Flank-march approach trying to sever the enemy in half and dealing to one side at a time.Trying to use a small mass of enemy wrecks in the centre as a barrier to divide the field as much as possible.

WHAT SAY YOU...

[DarkLink]

People who know what they're doing stopped caring much about garden appliances a while ago. The long range firepower in the list is centered around a handful of artillery units (which are vulnerable to psyrifle dreads as they're on chimera chassis) and vendettas (which can be shot down even more easily). If you can shake those, the only long range fire left is multi-lasers, which are far less scary. You then just have to open up some of the Chimeras and kill the dudes inside.

GKs aren't necessarily the best list to do all this, but they are fully capable of doing it, with good take-all-comers lists to boot.

[Lerra]

The best way to counter Leafblower is to make heavy use of reserves if they are going first. If you're going first, you should have no problems.

Most GK lists are ace with reserves considering how many units can deepstrike/infiltrate/teleport.

[Lucian Kain]

Agreed but destroying 2-3 vehicals a turn is hard enough let alone all game and while Grey Knight units have Psycannon goodness it leaves them open to return fire from Infintry resently relieved of thier safe armoured box putting them on the back foot.Trying to negate that loss of Initiative is what I'm interested in.

I guess when I say win I realy mean crush/Table the opponent

[Timbo]

So what you're saying is you just want a list that can reliably table one of the consensus toughest lists in 40K? Let me know how that turns out! :rolleyes:

[TheBitzBarn]

How many infantry are actually in a Leafblower list 20 to 30 Guard not too hard to withstand that firepower.

[Iceman]

People who know what they're doing stopped caring much about garden appliances a while ago. The long range firepower in the list is centered around a handful of artillery units (which are vulnerable to psyrifle dreads as they're on chimera chassis) and vendettas (which can be shot down even more easily). If you can shake those, the only long range fire left is multi-lasers, which are far less scary. You then just have to open up some of the Chimeras and kill the dudes inside.

GKs aren't necessarily the best list to do all this, but they are fully capable of doing it, with good take-all-comers lists to boot.
I don't agree with what you are saying. I don't want to get into the specifics of what qualifies as a leafblower list, but I find that a few standard Leman Russes have the range, firepower and armor to wreak havoc against anyone that shows up in the open. Against Marines in cover, it at least forces them to take the cover save instead of their superior armor save.

In my (admittedly limited) experience, small, elite armies struggle against the firepower of the IG.

[DarkLink]

What is it with people and blasts? Spread out, seriously. And since GKs have this thing called 'the Shrouding', you ought to be smiling as your opponent looks all proud about his ap3 large blasts. Not that Leman Russes aren't good against Gks or Marines in general, but they don't somehow make it impossible to beat IG.

Basically, the idea that list that hasn't been that big a deal for, what, two years, is somehow impossible to beat just because it's infamous on the internet is defeatist thinking. It's a pointless exercise. Instead of bemoaning how the fates must hate you for making it impossible to win, you should be spending that energy figuring out how to do so. In the case of Grey Knights, we have the ability to shake/stun an entire parking lot of vehicles because every squad has psycannons (you are taking psycannons everywhere, right?). If you can silence the IG's big guns, you have a shot at victory. There's other things you need to do as well, but that's step one and it is perfectly possible.

[Lemt]

3 Psyfleman Dreads go a long way into making victory possible. They're great against mostly anything (except Tyranids maybe), so I'd always include them. Add a Vindicare Assassin, and you have a good amount of anti-tank firepower for a little over 500 points.

[Denied]

What is it with people and blasts? Spread out, seriously. And since GKs have this thing called 'the Shrouding', you ought to be smiling as your opponent looks all proud about his ap3 large blasts. Not that Leman Russes aren't good against Gks or Marines in general, but they don't somehow make it impossible to beat IG.

Basically, the idea that list that hasn't been that big a deal for, what, two years, is somehow impossible to beat just because it's infamous on the internet is defeatist thinking. It's a pointless exercise. Instead of bemoaning how the fates must hate you for making it impossible to win, you should be spending that energy figuring out how to do so. In the case of Grey Knights, we have the ability to shake/stun an entire parking lot of vehicles because every squad has psycannons (you are taking psycannons everywhere, right?). If you can silence the IG's big guns, you have a shot at victory. There's other things you need to do as well, but that's step one and it is perfectly possible.

Okay, although I don't disagree with the stop QQing about IG leafblower I can see how frustrating it is for people (actually I have experienced how frustrating it is specifically for GK). Even with shrouding (which only effects units within a 6" ranges of the Librarian) you're going to have to sacrifice a significant portion of your list to a non shrouded fate, since you have to spread out to avoid blasts. This is the trade off you make, either keep people grouped closer together to maximize the shrouding affect or only shroud a potion of your army and spread out to limit how many units a blast can hit at once. Secondly if a list is heavy on Russes then your in deep sh!t because psycannons are a joke against Russ's. The best chance you have against them is to get up close with a Librarian and Warp Rift them (yes please I would love my auto pens!)


Your best bet against a IG army fielding heavy Russ Demolishers is to get up close and personal so they don't risk dropping the template on their own units.

There is a way to beat leafblower with smaller elite armies it's just not pretty, but for that fact I have seen the counter to leafblower as daemons because they just deepstrike right into the line and start tearing it up and leafblower crumbles. Taking a hint from this I am going to see how deepstriking my GKSS and terminators into them goes, grab a couple of servo skulls and make it a good time. This is the best option I see at the moment for handling IG. drop in shoot them up when you arrive, pop a couple vehicles and then charge them next turn.

[DarkLink]

Right, Russes are much nastier against IG than the leafblower list, which is build around the chimera chassis artillery units, and they're mainly scary because they're tough to kill. The rest of the IG army GKs can deal with pretty reasonably.

[Denied]

Right, Russes are much nastier against IG than the leafblower list, which is build around the chimera chassis artillery units, and they're mainly scary because they're tough to kill. The rest of the IG army GKs can deal with pretty reasonably.

I completely agree.

[Mr.Pickelz]

you could also have 3 shunting dreadknights with swords and/or flamers (Hellhound shots):D:D

That should cause him some alarm...i know it would me.;)

[Denied]

you could also have 3 shunting dreadknights with swords and/or flamers (Hellhound shots):D:D

That should cause him some alarm...i know it would me.;)

Yeah that works if you want a list strictly to make IG piss their pants, but they aren't very good against other elite armies.

This is why I don't like tailoring list to a foe, I mean sure its easy to go "If you have the advantage and foresight to grab X, Y ,and Z they don't stand a chance" but then what about every other army out there that will tear your face off and feed it to your family.... probably with a nice red wine to accent its flavors >_>

The best thing is to build a good army list in general for your unit and then learn how to play it against different armies.

[DarkLink]

Well, one problem with Dreadknights is that all those chimeras are filled with a bunch of melta/plasma guns. Normally you have a couple turns to deal with them, but if you just shunt your dreadknights then you give them a target to kill when they would otherwise just be sitting there doing nothing. You also have to have more expensive Ven psyrifle dreads. Add in a couple Interceptor squads, though, and you can keep spread out to minimize blast damage while overwhelming his close range fire support. Shunting is kind of an all or nothing thing. You have to achieve critical mass to threaten your opponent enough to overwhelm them.

[Lucian Kain]

I was more worried about 12 Chimeras+contense,2 Vendettas+contense and 2 more armour Heavy support options witch may be different but essentially play the same roll.

[Hive Mind]

WTF is a 'Leaf Blower List'?

[DarkLink]

Two years ago, Darkwynn took this list (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html) to 'ard boyz. His dice were on fire and it was a very different list from what most people had experience fighting (the IG codex was very new), and he tabled all of his opponents.

Naturally, the internet freaked out, and even two years later there are still plenty of people who think that the 'leafblower' list (which has been expanded to refer to pretty much any mech guard army) is the most overpowered thing to ever exist in 40k or something.