Raider and Webway Question

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

If I give my troops a raider can I stick them in reserve to come out of the webway and then deploy my raider with the rest of my army? I know that the troops dont have to be embarked on the vehicle but can one be in reserve and the other deployed? because raiders cant come out of webway.

[Archon Charybdis]

Absolutely. A dedicated transport is a completely independent unit unto itself, it can be deployed or held in reserve as you would any other unit. The only restriction on a dedicated transport is that nobody but the unit it was bought for can begin the game deployed in it. So for example, you could buy a raider for a squad of Warriors, put them in reserve, and after the game begins have a squad of Harlequins hop into it.

[thecactusman17]

Nope. Dedicated Transports are a sort of weird situation. Basically, think of a dedicated transport in the same way you think of a Combat Squad unit. They don't have to start together, but when it comes to purchasing them and determining when they come onto the board they are a single unit choice. So in this case, your units could come on at the same time with the infantry walking on through the webway portal, but the raider would have to come in at the exact same time off the appropriate board edge.

PS: This issue was settled in several FAQs, including the main one.

[somerandomdude]

That's incorrect, cactusman. In no way, shape, or form is a transport the same unit as the passengers in it. Several rules make this clear, and nothing in the deployment rules says that you must deploy them simultaneously. In fact, if you tried to separate them after you roll for them as a single choice, then you would be breaking the rules.

The real question that needs to be asked is, if you roll successfully for the unit on board the transport to come on, can they THEN choose to come in differently i.e. separate from the transport using the WWP rules.

[Culven]

The real question that needs to be asked is, if you roll successfully for the unit on board the transport to come on, can they THEN choose to come in differently i.e. separate from the transport using the WWP rules.
No, you cannot. The Reserves rules require that all Unit combinations and method of entering play be defined when the Units are placed in Reserves. So, if the Unit is embarked in their Transport, they must enter play aboard it. This would prevent them from using the WWP.

[wkz]

The ONLY rule dedicated transport have is this: If it is carrying anything onto the table from reserve/turn zero, it is carrying ONLY the unit it is dedicated to. Otherwise, it counts as a separate unit.

So:
a) Unit declared into d.vehicle during deployment. Both are either deployed together, or enters together from the table edge (or webway if allowed). When entering in this manner, unit MUST be transported by said d.vehicle, unit CANNOT disembark "before entry" and walk onto the table separately.

b) Unit not declared into d.vehicle during deployment. They are now considered 2 different units, so Roll reserves for d.vehicle and unit separately... For example: the unit may enter at turn 3, the vehicle turn 4 because of separate reserves dice rolls... or Tactical squad already on the table at "turn zero" seeing their dedicated droppod land in the distance in turn 1.

Other units still cannot enter the d.vehicle to enter the table... they may hitch a ride immediately after vehicle have entered, but they cannot ride it onto the table.

[somerandomdude]

No, you cannot. The Reserves rules require that all Unit combinations and method of entering play be defined when the Units are placed in Reserves. So, if the Unit is embarked in their Transport, they must enter play aboard it. This would prevent them from using the WWP.

Right, the question is if entering embarked on a transport falls under one of the ways that WWP allows you to change. The WWP specifically says that they may enter through the WWP no matter how they were said to enter play, whether outflanking, deepstriking, and so on.

The question is, if coming on board embarked on a transport falls under the "so on". Not that you actually bring the vehicle through the WWP.

[Nabterayl]

The question is, if coming on board embarked on a transport falls under the "so on". Not that you actually bring the vehicle through the WWP.
An ingenious question. I'd be inclined to say no ... doing so would require disembarking from the transport, and I don't see how you can disembark before you're on the table, as the disembarkation rules require the transport to be situated in space.

[wkz]

The unit may enter play via any method available to them... the problem is that they are technically NOT the unit entering play, and the actual unit entering play (the transport) is NOT allowed by the WWP.

And as Nabterayl said, there isn't really a chance to disembark from the Raider before it enters the table, as (a) You declared them to be together, so they must be embarked at the start, and (b) They cannot disembark while off the table...


... However, during "Turn zero", you CAN declare them to be in reserves, BUT disembarked. That way, they become 2 different units for the purposes of reserve rolls, but will enter as their own separate units. Thus, you might have: Raider enters in turn 2 via table edge, troops from WWP in turn 3... (basically, case "b" in my previous post above)

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

the question is can my raider start deployed on the board and the wyches or warriors be held in reserve. the raider is not coming thru the webway. Essentually if buy 6 squad choices at minimum cost can i litter the field with empty raiders while the infantry come thru webway?

i have just scoured the rulebook, DE Codex and FAQ and no where does it say that I cant do what im asking.

The rule book under the reserves rule states" a dedicated transport can only be deployed, and consequently can only be kept in reserve, either empty or transporting the unit was selected with plus IC's"
But the dediacted transport isnt in reserve

plus the fact that a dediacted transport is a seperate kill point solidifies that it is a seperate entity.

the only restriction i see is that you cannot deploy the transport with other infantry than the dedicated squad.

In this scenario I am purchasing a riader with my wyche squad un-embarked on the raider(this is legal as anyone with orks and burnaboyz or lootas"borrowing" a truck knows:)). I then deploy the raider on the field while wyches are held in reserve. I then would use my raider as disposable cover or taxi services

A good tactic for any army really. the old rhino wall but the rhinos are empty and the space marines come from the board edge blasting at anything that gets thru

I think this is totally legal. please try to prove me wrong

[Archon Charybdis]

Yes, that is perfectly legal. As has been brought up, and you mentioned yourself, the ONLY restriction on a dedicated transport is that only the unit it was purchased for may begin the game embarked on it. That's literally the only connection between the dedicated transport and the unit it was bought for. There isn't even a requirement that they must be deployed embarked, or deployed at the same time, or anything of the sort. They are still two totally separate units.

[Cheese]

I'd allow it and I think your right in doing so. Unless someone comes up with some solid rules-based evidence against it, then I don't think there's any real case against it.

[wkz]

Yes, that is perfectly legal. As has been brought up, and you mentioned yourself, the ONLY restriction on a dedicated transport is that only the unit it was purchased for may begin the game embarked on it. That's literally the only connection between the dedicated transport and the unit it was bought for. There isn't even a requirement that they must be deployed embarked, or deployed at the same time, or anything of the sort. They are still two totally separate units.

This.

This is also the main reasoning behind Razorback spam entering the table empty, and empty droppods on turn 1...

[darthken]

ive been using them that way since the dex came out, only with venoms. my two 5 man elite squads come on through the portal leaving the venoms as great mobile fire support.