fast moving eldar transports

[davel]

I have played eldar for some time

After a conversation at a local tournie something came that caused me some concern.

I have always played if you move flat out and are brought down models inside recive a st4 hit and survivors bail and have to take pinning check

They told me if you move flat out then models can not legally disembark so there fore are wiped out

if it is true then it stuffs my eldar and probably dark eldar as well.

Dave l

[Nungunz]

They told me if you move flat out then models can not legally disembark so there fore are wiped out
Dave l

This only happens if the fast transport is Destroyed if it moved flat-out in your turn (due to ramming, etc).

[Count Fenring]

I play Eldar too.

Rule book states, skimmer is destroyed (wrecked) if moved flat out and shot down. So they would not get a S4 hit per model. Since you moved flat out, they could not disembark normally, so die, as it states on P67 sadly.

I think it is good balance to the speed. I try to be sure to land behind cover if possible. Only getting a mediocre obscured save is enough reason to be cautious.

[DrLove42]

Nungunz is correct, fenring is not.

It does say what he says it says, but as Nungunz says...thats in your player turn, not in the game turn. If you ram, you're guys all get twisted up in the debris and are screwed. If you boost, then get shot next turn, out they hop.

If Fenring was correct DE as an army would be generally screwed. As would the Valk and Stormraven. And GW would never sacrifice their beloved cash cow models in the Guard and BA/GK lineup

Also "only getting a mediocre obscured save". You can tell you don't play DE. A 4+ save on AV10 is a lifesaver.

[Count Fenring]

Nungunz is correct, fenring is not.

It does say what he says it says, but as Nungunz says...thats in your player turn, not in the game turn. If you ram, you're guys all get twisted up in the debris and are screwed. If you boost, then get shot next turn, out they hop.

If Fenring was correct DE as an army would be generally screwed. As would the Valk and Stormraven. And GW would never sacrifice their beloved cash cow models in the Guard and BA/GK lineup

Also "only getting a mediocre obscured save". You can tell you don't play DE. A 4+ save on AV10 is a lifesaver.

This would be great and I would like for it to be true (as I play Eldar). Can you please reference it in the rule book?
Someones opinion (which is about all I have to go by here) does not change my local gaming scene as this is how we play, same with the OP.

Thanks

[Archon Charybdis]

I'm AFB so I don't have the exact page references, but I can give you the general rundown. In essence, it's a matter of understanding the difference between game turns and player turns. In the first few pages of the book it defines "player turn" and "game turn", and tells us that unless otherwise noted each mention of "turn" throughout the book references the player turn. The flat out rules only restrict your ability to disembark in the same turn (i.e. player turn) that you moved flat out. By the time you come to your opponents shooting phase, it's no longer the same turn, and your models are free to disembark normally.

Sometimes people get a little mixed up with the fast skimmer immobilized = wrecked thing, because that rule specifically says it applies the turn after the skimmer moved flat out (once again, AFB, so I can't recall the exact language.)

So if your fast moving skimmer gets shot at in your opponent's subsequent shooting phase and is immoblized, your vehicle becomes a wreck automatically, but your passengers are free to disembark because it's no longer the same turn in which they went flat-out.

[Nungunz]

This would be great and I would like for it to be true (as I play Eldar). Can you please reference it in the rule book?
Someones opinion (which is about all I have to go by here) does not change my local gaming scene as this is how we play, same with the OP.

Thanks

Page 9. Turn always means player turn unless otherwise specified.

[DrLove42]

This would be great and I would like for it to be true (as I play Eldar). Can you please reference it in the rule book?
Someones opinion (which is about all I have to go by here) does not change my local gaming scene as this is how we play, same with the OP.

Thanks

You made me go get my rulebook out :p

OK firstly i'm using the min rule book, your pages may be different. On page 67 "Effects of damage results on passengers" it says that for a Wrecked result the passengers must DISEMBARK. But for an explode result the models are simply wounded then placed where the vehicle was. At no point do they disembark, the vehicle just dissapears around them and they land on the ground. So it doesn't matter that flat out they can't disembark. Because they're not disembarking.

I know this needs a little reading to get so I also went onto the GW website to read the full FAQ.

It states

"Q: What is meant when the term ʻturnʼ is used? (p9)
A: Whenever the word turn is used it means player turn.
Otherwise it will clearly state game turn. In a complete
game turn both players get a player turn.

So a "turn" is your turn. Your opponents move is then the following turn.

Reading down the FAQ it then says



Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in the same turn as it
moved flat out what happens to any embarked models? (p70)
A: They are removed as casualties.


So again a little inference required. But if you are destroyed in your turn (eg the turn you went flatout in) then everyone is dead. However your opponents next turn is a different turn, and this no longer applies. No where does it say they are destroyed because they can't disembark. They are destroyed because their Falcon/Raider is a twisted piece of metal

ERGO - If you move flatout and are destroyed by your own actions (ramming, dangerous terrain tests) your dudes be dead
If you move flat out, end your turn and are destroyed by enemy fire in the next turn then your dudes land on the ground, take the S4 hit (S3 for open topped vehicles), take a pinning test, and if they pass are free to move next turn. However they are placed in the vehciles crater if you place one, giving them a difficult terrain test and a 4+ cover save.

Generally 5th edition is much safer for vehicles and passengers

[Culven]

OK firstly i'm using the min rule book, your pages may be different.
FYI - the page numbers for the basic rules (up through the standard missions) are the same for both rulebooks.

[Count Fenring]

Good ammo to take to my gaming group, so:

In my player turn, my troops can't disembark when their transport goes flat out of course.

then,

The opposing player turn (same game turn, or otherwise), I somehow have this "can't disembark penalty" reset even though it is technically not my turn. Even though I have exhausted the things I can do in my turn, it is okay to say that I get a reset from this penalty.

Yes DrLove42, I can see what you mean by having to infer and fenagle quite a bit to get this point across. ;)

[Nungunz]

Good ammo to take to my gaming group, so:

In my player turn, my troops can't disembark when their transport goes flat out of course.

then,

The opposing player turn (same game turn, or otherwise), I somehow have this "can't disembark penalty" reset even though it is technically not my turn. Even though I have exhausted the things I can do in my turn, it is okay to say that I get a reset from this penalty.


Pretty much. It's also what allows some psychic powers to be used in the opponents turn as well as yours (force weapons, hammerhand, sanguine sword, etc for instance)

[EnglishInquisition]

Wasn't this FAQ'd earlier in the year. Pretty sure it's on GW's website.

[Archon Charybdis]

The opposing player turn (same game turn, or otherwise), I somehow have this "can't disembark penalty" reset even though it is technically not my turn. Even though I have exhausted the things I can do in my turn, it is okay to say that I get a reset from this penalty.

That's kind of a weird way of phrasing it, but yes. The disembarking restriction expires at the end of the turn, which is to say, at the end of your player turn. Your opponent's subsequent player turn is not the turn you went flat out, and so you can disembark as normal.


Yes DrLove42, I can see what you mean by having to infer and fenagle quite a bit to get this point across. ;)

Yeah, it's a bit convoluted, but it's only because most people are unaware of the distinction between player turn and game turn. If you realize the difference between the two, the rule isn't that complicated, plus it's further restated in the FAQ.