WH40K Starter Sets

[Skragger]

(121 views, and only 8 votes: 17% voter turnout! yay!)

OKAY! So I had a brilliant idea in another post (Decline of 40K by our resident Fuzzbuket). I know, every now and then I get a flash of brilliance! :D

The idea was that of a "Warhammer 40,000 starter set". The starter set is designed to be a low cost alternative to people looking to get into the game over general starter sets like Black Reach. The way it works is thusly:

1) Each army has a starter set, this allows new players to find an army that they like, rather than just Space Marines vs Xenos-of-the-month

2) Each starter set has 250 points worth of models in it, 5D6, some cheap templates (maybe just on plasticard or something), and a minirulebook.

3) Each starter set contains at least 1 HQ and 1 troop choice. This way if players like the army and the game after buying the starter for their army, they just need to add 1 more troop choice and they're good to go.

So, we're all ultramasters of our chosen armies. Help me put together some 250 point starter sets! Our friend Whittdooley came up with a few in the other post, so I'll be dropping those here for your considerations!

Edit: If some of these actually work out to be cost effective, I may incorperate some into my store to help bring new players into the hobby rather than hukking a $100+ starter set at them =)



250 Blood Angels--

5 man Assault Squad 100
1 Sanguinary priest 50
5 Death Company 100

Total Model Count 11

250 Nids--

10 Termagaunts -- 50
10 Genestealers -- 140
10 Gargoyle - 60

Total Model Count 30

250 Dark Eldar--

10 Wyches - 100
10 Warriors - 90
1 Archon - 60

Total Model Count 21

250 Grey Knights --

10 man Strike Squad - 200
1 Paladin - 55

Total Model Count 11

These are the only Dexes I have availble right now, but as you can see, there are some big discrepancies. I tried to keep each 250 point box so that they retained the unique flavor of the army (hence Sanguinary Priest, Death Company with BA) while maximizing the product you get. The Dark Eldar one is the only box out of the 4 with an HQ slot; personally I think it'd be better served to NOT include an HQ with any of the boxes, so you could swap the Archon with either a Succubus for +5 points, or a Homonculus for -5 points. I don't know enough about the army to make a better judgement.

At 250 points, it is going to be IMPOSSIBLE for any MEQ codex to get more than 20 models. I think that's okay, but it is certainly something of note.

With the Grey Knights, you could very easily do a mixed Inq/Grey Knights Box that would fill out a bit more depending on load out, looking like this:

GK/Inq 250

5 Man - GK SS 100
Ordo Malleu Inq in Termi Armour - 65
Retinue w/
Crusader 15
Mystic 10
Banisher w/ Eviscerator - 30
4 Boltgun Acolytes - 20
MM Servitor - 10

Total Model Count 14

[Ssyrie]

I like the idea of an inexpensive starter set. Better than shelling out for the current boxed set unless you actually want both armies.

[TheRise]

What you're proposing is a bit like the Warmachine Battleboxes.
I think it is a great idea. A great way for new players to get into the game.
Perhaps if each Starter Set where to have 2 Troops and a HQ instead. So all that you and your friend have to do is pick up a set each. Build them (perhaps they are push fit or some glue is included) and then you can play.
Then if they are interested in the game they can start building there armies.
Oerhaps so they knwo the basic rules for the armies they have in thier box they have stat cards for each unit, and a card for the other rules. Or they have a double sided page that has the rules and stats?
This way the newcomer and his friend can get playing in an hour or 2. They have a legal army, that are the saim points cost.

[Skragger]

I really like the idea of stat cards and the like! I remember back in pre-5th ed the boxed sets used to come with a two sided boxboard page with all the charts for wounds and BS and S vs T on it. A quick reference sheet deal. Push would be a good call, but probably glue would be better as it gets them into the habit of fighting with super glue/testors/epoxy.

[wittdooley]

What you're proposing is a bit like the Warmachine Battleboxes.
I think it is a great idea. A great way for new players to get into the game.
Perhaps if each Starter Set where to have 2 Troops and a HQ instead. So all that you and your friend have to do is pick up a set each. Build them (perhaps they are push fit or some glue is included) and then you can play.
Then if they are interested in the game they can start building there armies.
Oerhaps so they knwo the basic rules for the armies they have in thier box they have stat cards for each unit, and a card for the other rules. Or they have a double sided page that has the rules and stats?
This way the newcomer and his friend can get playing in an hour or 2. They have a legal army, that are the saim points cost.

HQ's make this a really tricky proposition. If you want to keep the point level at 250ish, it would be nearly impossible to put an HQ in all of them and still have a decent amount of models. If we base it on Black Reach, and Assume that GW is willing to do 500 or so points for $50 bucks (which I think would be perfect.. Hell, I think $60 would be reasonable, as it's the same price as a video game), then that really opens things up and prices it competetively with Privateer (not that GW needs to).

That way, I'm almost certain you could put together a 500 point force that would be a good basis for a future army with 1 HQ, 2 Troops, and then another slot (be it the most flavorful from each codex).

Example at ~500 points:

Blood Angels

Reclusiarch w/ Jump Pack 150
5 Man Assault Squad 100
5 Man Death Company100
Furioso Dreadnought 125

Est Retail -- $115

Tyranids

Hive Tyrant 170
15 Termagaunts -- 75
10 Genestealers -- 70
10 Gargoyle -- 60
3 Shrikes -- 105

Est. Retail -- $170

The problem now becomes cost. Would have to be commited to losing money on some of their product at this point cost. While 500 points would give you a better starting point, I think that 250-300 points would have to be the spot they went with with in order to keep it cost effective (I mean, who wouldn't buy 10 sets of those boxes at $60).

[TheRise]

Well talking to new younger aspiring gamers they just want to get playing with a legal army as quickly as possible. instead of having to buy sperate boxes.
if you look at warmachine what they are doing is perfect for new gamers. Put the models together and you can play a game. Perhaps if GW were to do that thier profits might come up. realy it is in thier early teens when the new people to carry on the hobby will get hooked. They need to be aiming for that range, and making it easier on the pocket.
In AoBR you are getting 2 armies of around 500 points and the rest for £55 so half that and you get roughly £30 so theoreticaly that is £30 for a legal army. whereas for a legal Space marine army, 1 HQ and 2 Troops, from scratch is roughly £50. It realy doesn't make sense.

[Skragger]

While 500 points makes more sense, its not too cost effective compared to the current sets. Maybe 300 points would be better, as you mentioned. For most armies this gives a bit more room for a HQ slot.

The Rise, I've always looked at Warmachine thinking it'd be fun, but the models are metal, and I loathe working with metal. I think if PP could get some plastics out, it would be a really nice draw for new players. My first model for Warhammer was a chaos dragon (Egrimm, the two headed one to be precise, cause it was cool) but when I'm 12, putting a solid pewter model together is verty frustrating and you don't have the patience to work with it. I know I scrapped the model and tried again with some plastic Chaos Warriors and loved it.

[Forever_Bunny]

I was wondering if you add the codex for free to the starter set and kept the 500pts and price. If that would be better since the codex would be a $40 loss, or you could half price the book if the $40 loss is to high.

[Skragger]

I was wondering if you add the codex for free to the starter set and kept the 500pts and price. If that would be better since the codex would be a $40 loss, or you could half price the book if the $40 loss is to high.

Good question, remember though, if this were something that was to be sold in stores, it needs to turn a profit, including a full dex might double the cost.

I think a better idea would be to include just a tiny mini dex that has the stats for the units included in the starter set, and maybe a small bit of fluff about the army as a whole. Then if they like what they see they can buy the full dex, and a few extra ladz and they'll have an army

[Brosef Stalin]

It's funny, I think this is an excellent idea, but mathematically speaking, it's impossible to do this for the current Necron 'dex. :D

With:
1x Necron Lord - 100 points
10x Necron Warriors - 180 points

Minimum we could throw in the box is 280 points. Definitely time for that new codex...

[Lemt]

Nice idea, here are some alternative armies you could use, all exactly 250 points:


Hive Tyrant with 2xDevourers
10 Termagants

Tyranid Prime with 2 Boneswords and Regeneration
5 Tyranid Warriors

Inquisitor
5 GK Teminators with a Psycannon

[SotonShades]

I think the idea in general is pretty good, but a lot of younger kids getting in to the hobby are either going to a) just go for space marines because they are space marines, so might as well go with the full boxed game so they have something to play against, or b) going to buy the box with the most models in it because more models is a better army (obviously they aren't going to tink of value or anything :P). At least thats my experience of kids starting out.

In addition quite a few of these kids aren't paying for the boxes themselves. Mummy and daddy are paying, or its from their christmas/birthday cash (topped up a little by dotting parents), so having a slightly higher price isn't quite so much of an issue. Most parents who'd be against paying that higher price have all ready assumed that this is going to be too expensive a hobby for little timmy anyway.

My final point against would be that 250 points of one army doesn't always equal 250 points of another. I'm fairly certain some strong armies won't do as well at such low points. We all know that list writing is one of the most important factors in competitive 40k, but to some extent it would be even more important here. Not only do you need to create lists that fit as neatly as possible in to 250 points, but they would have to be fairly balanced with each other. If not, the kid with the weakest starting box is going to be fairly discouraged by losing most/all the time and possibly end up quitting before they even get in to the hobby. At least with the boxed game you only have to balance two lists.



On the more positive side, I can very much imagine these kind of sets flying off the shelves on release day for the army, and on new edition releases. I'm certain Vets would use it as a great, cheap way to expand exhisting armies, as well as start new ones. That said, how many points do you get in a battleforce box? Other than the dice, how different are they going to be?

[Charistoph]

I have to agree with most of the points that people have made. It's a good idea, but a logisitical nightmare. My LGS has a weekly 40K in 40 Minutes mini-tournament every week that is 500 points, no 3 wound HQs, no vehicle over 34, and no TEQ. This would be perfect for this set up.

Problem is when I'm starting Chaos, I don't have a non 3 wound HQ, and my Tau are even worse! New HQs will have to be created for some of the armies so that they can participate in this without being broken one way or the other (Tau have Ethereals, but you'd be foolish or ignorant to take one, and currently you're still required to take a Crisis Suit Commander).

As for the codex, just put in a mini-dex. A page for each of the models included, then a few pages of color pictures that shows more of the full codex models, just like the AoBR. The rulebook would be the same way. Just provide the minimum needed for this level of play, i.e., basic infantry rules, maybe Jump Infantry (Blood Angels), or include the special rules of the unit types in with the mini-dex itself (like Tau Jet Packs).

The question then is, at what point can every army put in, and it still be an interesting fight?

[wittdooley]

The question then is, at what point can every army put in, and it still be an interesting fight?

Yeah, this is a huge issue. I think model count wise they'd be able to work within those realms because most of the low model count armies will be Marine armies. I think, because of sheer volume, that some of the otherwise very good marine armies would have trouble competing at the battle box level.

[wkz]

The big gaping hole in the OP's original idea is this: 200/300 pts is "only" combat patrol.

Take Warmachine's starter as a comparison. It gives you 2 jacks and 1 warcaster, and "you can pretty much start playing immediately". Good fun times?

Note the quotes: most people don't play at that level/points in Warmachine, just as most people don't play "combat patrol" in 40k. To truly jump into the game, our budding new player will have to fork out more $$ to get 3 or 5 jacks, maybe an infantry squad or three, an optional solo or two, perhaps another HQ... and viola, we're done.

That's around 15~30 models worth of investment, and it grants you HQs, infantry, heavy hitting stuff, and "shenanigans creators". After all, Warmachine is a skirmish game.


Now back to GW. Lets randomly grab someone's suggestion:


...Example at ~500 points:
...
Reclusiarch w/ Jump Pack 150
5 Man Assault Squad 100
5 Man Death Company100
Furioso Dreadnought 125
(Note: I went with BA because that's one of my armies...)
Looking quite good, isn't it.

Here's the thing: how many things would the new guy buy to pad his forces out to a "standard" tabletop army. Lets count the ways...

He'd need more troops, AND the options: that's at least 1 more Assault squad box and one more DC box (10/10 Assault/DC)

He'd need more support: that's at least 2 Devastator boxes (or better: 1 Devastator, 1 Tactical), Sang Priests (and if you want Sang Priests with a JP, that's one direct order to GW for jumppacks...), maybe a different HQ (Chappy, Libby?). Or perhaps even more troops (Assault/DC/Tacticals) or Elites (bling'ed up Assault/DC/Tacticals)?

He'd need mobility and "metal bawxes!!" for those support element (that is if he's not going for a full JP theme): that's 2 Razorbacks at least (free cheap turret weapons if you want Rhinos!), and at least a Predator/Vindicator/LandRaider/etc.

....
That's already 10 or so units listed, with most of them multiple model squads (each probably running around 5~10 models) or large models (vehicles), to pad 500pts to a playable army (instead of the OP's original 250pts). Compare that to Warmachine's 30 or so models (much less if you're playing a full-jack army)...

The above is why I don't think the Starter Sets would work, even though I think it is a good idea: IF our budding new player is buying the "Starter set" to play combat patrol to LEARN the RULES... then yes, this is a very good thing to have... oh wait, we have already have such things: Orkz vs Space Marine starter box, complete with easy-assembly models and a mini-rulebook.

Unfortunately, I also think the army boxed sets wouldn't work: it USED to, but now it is a bit cost-ineffective, and quite frankly having a newbie see so much plastic at one go will more likely turn him off the hobby than anything.


...
How about: Multiple "Tutorial boxes" per edition. Or, better, simply continue producing the models in "Battle for Black Reach" (Orkz vs Marines) even after the next edition is upon us, and have different factions for each subsequent Edition's tutorial box (IG vs Tau perhaps? SistersOBattle vs Chaos? Yadda vs Yadda, etc...). That way, our new budding player can choose a Tutorial box with his faction of choice...

It'd be as the starter boxes, but you buy these to LEARN the rules. Getting the army boxes choked full of models would be a better choice for "getting a newbie's army up to par", IMO (just need GW to improve the content of those army boxes...)

[Brosef Stalin]

...
How about: Multiple "Tutorial boxes" per edition. Or, better, simply continue producing the models in "Battle for Black Reach" (Orkz vs Marines) even after the next edition is upon us, and have different factions for each subsequent Edition's tutorial box (IG vs Tau perhaps? SistersOBattle vs Chaos? Yadda vs Yadda, etc...). That way, our new budding player can choose a Tutorial box with his faction of choice...

It'd be as the starter boxes, but you buy these to LEARN the rules. Getting the army boxes choked full of models would be a better choice for "getting a newbie's army up to par", IMO (just need GW to improve the content of those army boxes...)

I like that idea!

Maybe, in addition, GW could offer a "custom" option for every army they have available. Allow people online to select two armies, and you get some of them plastic snap-together dudes at the same quality/point val. as Black Reach, templates, rulebooks and all that other stuff. Instead of the Black Reach booklet, just include a generic quick start guide, with maybe a photocopied page talking about the models for each army selected.

Shouldn't be too difficult to implement, gives the people a bit more choice in their starting army, and honestly they could probably charge a bit more than Black Reach and get away with it. I would've certainly considered that, I mean, my first army was Space Marines, if only because the friend I bought Black Reach with wanted Orks.

[Charistoph]

How about: Multiple "Tutorial boxes" per edition. Or, better, simply continue producing the models in "Battle for Black Reach" (Orkz vs Marines) even after the next edition is upon us, and have different factions for each subsequent Edition's tutorial box (IG vs Tau perhaps? SistersOBattle vs Chaos? Yadda vs Yadda, etc...). That way, our new budding player can choose a Tutorial box with his faction of choice...

It'd be as the starter boxes, but you buy these to LEARN the rules. Getting the army boxes choked full of models would be a better choice for "getting a newbie's army up to par", IMO (just need GW to improve the content of those army boxes...)


I like that idea!

Maybe, in addition, GW could offer a "custom" option for every army they have available. Allow people online to select two armies, and you get some of them plastic snap-together dudes at the same quality/point val. as Black Reach, templates, rulebooks and all that other stuff. Instead of the Black Reach booklet, just include a generic quick start guide, with maybe a photocopied page talking about the models for each army selected.

Shouldn't be too difficult to implement, gives the people a bit more choice in their starting army, and honestly they could probably charge a bit more than Black Reach and get away with it. I would've certainly considered that, I mean, my first army was Space Marines, if only because the friend I bought Black Reach with wanted Orks.

Actually, they're all the same thing, when you boil it down. The main differences being 2 army kits vs 1 army kits, and the former getting a full rulebook, and the other just getting a basic rulebook and codex.

And it's not like any of the starter kits have actually been balanced up to now as it is.


Personally, they should have 5 categories of items for every army launch:
1) Codex.
2) A set of models for a new unit or two created.
3) A set of models for a remade classic unit or two.
4) A new Battleforce involving a least one of each of the above two, but something that can be used as an expansion set.
5) A Tutorial kit as described above, reasonably balanced within 5-10 points or each other.

Right now, they have 1-4 down (mostly). If they did #5, it would be easier to get people into the hobby, and possibly keep them in the hobby. It would help people get into the door of the game. It is one reason that WarmaHordes has taken off so well.

And as for the Battlebox games, they happen all the time for new people wanting to try out new models or are just getting into the game, whether vet or noob. True, many of the tournaments are for a much higher point tally, but you don't bring someone who has never played a game and just got his models into a bloodthirsty tournament, either.

[fuzzbuket]

10 dire avengers, twinpult exarch (bladestorm) 152
farseer,guide,mindwar 95
10 guardians (starcannon) 105
2 war walkers (2x2 scatter lasers) 120
shadow weaver platform. 3o pts
23 infantry, 2 walkers ( price: £90)

= 502pts not overly comp but can put out a decent amount of shots and the WW's+guardians can hunt light tanks. and the seer can kill charecters and buff the avengers/guardians/WW's

Grey knights

strike squad (psycannon, , 1 hammer ,3 halbards) = 135
terminators = 2 halbards 1 hammer, incinerator 205
libby, 2 powes. 160
£50, 500pts
11 infantry


some armies will cause problems... it would probably be better to do AOBR type models and possibly change the design, a little bit.


still this is what the battle forces were meant to be... what would be good to keep people saving too much would be to do say 10 AOBR style boxes, including terrain and a rollout mat?

[Skragger]

It's funny, I think this is an excellent idea, but mathematically speaking, it's impossible to do this for the current Necron 'dex. :D

With:
1x Necron Lord - 100 points
10x Necron Warriors - 180 points

Minimum we could throw in the box is 280 points. Definitely time for that new codex...

Yes, I know this pain! My first 5th ed army was a necron army, and I was holding a 500 pointer tournament. Everyone dropping tanks and dreads and I'm going "fear my lord with a res orb and 20 warriors!"

[Charistoph]

She's passing the idea up to next time there's a dev meeting and while there's no time for 6th ed (mysterious - maybe they already have an idea?), its something they may look into for the future. Keep posting! :D

There is a rumor floating around that 6th Edition is going to be released summer 2012. Obviously a significant dose of sodium chloride is needed, but usually these types of rumors do start floating around about a year in advance.

If 6th Edition is being planned for 2012, they probably don't have design teams able to do anything else, what with all the Fantasy and 40K books that need to be brought up to 7th and 5th Edition standard (yes, I know Fantasy is 8th, I'm talking about the basic codex design that started with Empire and Dark Angels).

[TheRise]

Battleforces are saving you roughly £20 and the AoBR box set is saving you loads!
i don't thinkign adding the codex would be good. But perhaps if it came with stat cards, and such as the normal unit boxes and blisters came with stat cards, woudl be useful as well.
I wan not saying to buy Warmachine, I was saying that this is liek thier idea, and i think it is great for getting new players started.

[Brosef Stalin]

*+++EVERYONE MAY BE INTERESTED TO KNOW+++*

I have passed the link to this thread onto my GW rep, and she thinks its a fantastic idea. She says closer to 350-400 points may be a better range, but its a very careful balance between keeping costs relativly low, and still giving a valid play. As many people have mentioned, it would take a lot of fine tweaking to ensure the armies are fair.

She's passing the idea up to next time there's a dev meeting and while there's no time for 6th ed (mysterious - maybe they already have an idea?), its something they may look into for the future. Keep posting! :D

That's awesome! Be sure to let us know if you hear more!



Yes, I know this pain! My first 5th ed army was a necron army, and I was holding a 500 pointer tournament. Everyone dropping tanks and dreads and I'm going "fear my lord with a res orb and 20 warriors!"

Ugh, you too? Just played in a 1000 point tournament with my Necrons and came in last. At least there was a consolation prize...:p

[Lemt]

*+++EVERYONE MAY BE INTERESTED TO KNOW+++*

I have passed the link to this thread onto my GW rep, and she thinks its a fantastic idea. She says closer to 350-400 points may be a better range, but its a very careful balance between keeping costs relativly low, and still giving a valid play. As many people have mentioned, it would take a lot of fine tweaking to ensure the armies are fair.

She's passing the idea up to next time there's a dev meeting and while there's no time for 6th ed (mysterious - maybe they already have an idea?), its something they may look into for the future. Keep posting! :D

That's pretty awesome!

One way to make sure this stays as an intro product at a cheap price and not just "I'll buy 5 of these when I want a new army" would be to make sure it always includes an option you'd usually only want 1 of in an army. That way it's a great place to start, but even if you don't have as big as profit margin on it as you would otherwise, you know people that buy it are going to buy other, more profitable, stuff.

As an example, including an HQ means you can start playing right away, but you can't really use more than two boxes of any one army (apart from Space Wolves).

[Charistoph]

Battleforces are saving you roughly £20 and the AoBR box set is saving you loads!
i don't thinkign adding the codex would be good. But perhaps if it came with stat cards, and such as the normal unit boxes and blisters came with stat cards, woudl be useful as well.
I wan not saying to buy Warmachine, I was saying that this is liek thier idea, and i think it is great for getting new players started.

Agreed that the full codex should not be included, however, a mini-dex that gave brief blurbs on the models that came in the army's starter box, and full color picts of the rest of the army options wouldn't be too much.

[DarkLink]

They had a quickstart rules package for the AoBR kit, didn't they?

[GrenAcid]

@Up
Yes and template with tape.

Im also think that 350-400 pt are spot we should aim with this starter box, cuz most people dont play patrol(i do, alot). So hq, 2 troops, and unit/s that siut theme of army.
For DE:
archon-60//haemonculus-50
10 warriors-90
10 wyches-100
Raider-60
Raider-60//Ravager-105//5-scourges-110/5 reavers-110
Imo things we need most, troops and transports all in flavour of army. I would by tons of boxes like that if I could save on it.

[Daemonette666]

I think 500 points is a better option. Many of the armies are really expensive, and to get a 250 point force for Chaos Marines is not easy. The HQ without any upgrades is 90 points.

The minimum unit size for a squad of Chaos Marines is 5 and at 15 points each that is 75 point a squad. Icon and weapon upgrades are more expensive for Chaos, and if you want to include anything worth while it costs a lot more.

Whitdooley has the right Idea.

So for Chaos Marines a Starter:

Chaos Lord with Power Weapon + Combi Melta - 115 points

5 Chaos Marines, Aspiring Champion, Melta Gun - 100 Points

5 Chaos marines, Aspiring Champion - Power Weapon, Flamer - 110 Points

3 Chaos Marine Bikers, Aspiring Champion, Flamer - 99 Points

1 Obliterator - 75 Points

Total = 499 Points

[Wolfshade]

I always thought that it was a shame that you couldn't pick and choose your army in the game box. You can see why with the introductory games included.
I do very much like the idea of the starter boxes suggested above, but I can't help feeling that there is some overlap between those and the battle force boxes.

[Skragger]

500 points would be a very nice goal, but remember, thats also going to be pushing prices up. We'd want to keep these cheap (by 40K standards at least) to bring newer players into the game, I could see a 500 point army pushing $100-125(CDN) and thats a bit too high imho. Maybe 400 points?

To give an idea: Black Reach is listed at MSRP (CDN): $120. An Ork starter set containing, say, 15 boyz, a warboss, and.. 5 lootas (roughly 250 points with some wargear on the boss) would cost ~ $80 CDN. You get more of what you want for your buck. And when you're a younger feller (which this targets, afterall, new players keep our hobby alive), its much less of a kick to the teeth than getting the AoBR

Wolfshade, there is some overlap between the battleforces and my starter set ideas, but the idea is that the battleforces are great at supplimenting an army, so they're fine once you know what you want. But the starter sets are designed to bring people into the game, or vets who want to try out a new army. Plus, some of the Battleforces are utter silliness, and certainly not balanced. This gives you enough models for you to play a game (assuming your opponent buys one too, or has an existing army), and all the tools you need as well.

So imagine it like this: you take half a battleforce, and mix it with the black reach gubbinz (mini-rulebook, some dice, templates, etc).

[Lemt]

I'm honestly not sure if adding mini-rulebooks and such into the pack is such a good idea. It makes it slightly more expensive, and a worse vale if you just want to start a new army. I'd leave that for AoBR type boxes, since the rules are only any good if you have another player anyhow.

Or another idea: make a mini starter kit: mini-rulebook, templates, some dice, and perhaps a small publicity sheet showing off some minis from each army. And keep it cheap. The instead of having AoBR boxes, give it for free (or at a discount) if you buy 2 or more Starter Sets, so people can build their own AoBR sets.

[wittdooley]

Also of note:

I think one of the keys to making this boxes, if GW were to do it, is to limit the amount of armor in the box. Think AoBR. The armor pieces need to Dreadnought sized or smaller if they're even included. The largest pieces would drive the price up, simply due to the amount of plastic.

Again, the issue here becomes a equitable pricepoint that will give you good value in terms of game points vs. cost. Footsloggers would seem to be the best way to do this. Another HUUUUUGE selling point would be if the HQ they include is a unique plastic guy. This would instantly make your vets/collectors buy at least 1 box.

Another thing I think GW is missing out on with their marketing is unique terrain. I personally believe every BattleBox should come with a piece of terrain unique to the army. Why? It gives me a reason to spend that larger chunk of money, as the battleboxes aren't THAT great a deal without (and do I really need more Space Wolves scouts?). Unique pieces in bigger boxes = vets/collectors buy the boxes while still appealing to the new player; otherwise, your vets/collectors aren't going to be buying the battleboxes at all, and you need a good balance between your entrenched hobbyists and your new players.

If there is any place where I think GW really lacks, it's in their marketing opportunities. Here's a list of things I would purchase from GW if they made them:

Posters -- (I already buy, and love, the ones from Black Library) -- You're telling me they couldn't market some of the fantastic art that is in the universe?
T-Shirts/Apparel -- The fact that they don't do this already blows my mind. T-shirts are cheap to make and can be sold reasonably for $20. Even if they did it though an online shop, GW would be making at least 300% profit on these. My wife would even wear one because, though she isn't a huge fan of the game, she loves Geek Chic apparel (she's never played WoW but loves her WoW t-shirt).
Keychains/Chotchkies-- Citadel is a miniatures company. They used to make a Bolter Keychain. Why not anymore????!??! I'd love to have one on my keys. What about a Chainsword bottle opener? Yep, I'd buy one of those two.

That's just off the top of my rambling head. I know it's a bit divergent, but is anyone else on the same page as me?

[Skragger]

Posters -- (I already buy, and love, the ones from Black Library) -- You're telling me they couldn't market some of the fantastic art that is in the universe?
T-Shirts/Apparel -- The fact that they don't do this already blows my mind. T-shirts are cheap to make and can be sold reasonably for $20. Even if they did it though an online shop, GW would be making at least 300% profit on these. My wife would even wear one because, though she isn't a huge fan of the game, she loves Geek Chic apparel (she's never played WoW but loves her WoW t-shirt).
Keychains/Chotchkies-- Citadel is a miniatures company. They used to make a Bolter Keychain. Why not anymore????!??! I'd love to have one on my keys. What about a Chainsword bottle opener? Yep, I'd buy one of those two.

That's just off the top of my rambling head. I know it's a bit divergent, but is anyone else on the same page as me?

Its not you, I would LOVE to buy some shirts and the like! A star of chaos necklace or Aquila would be awesome. Dog tags for the Imperial Guard too! I remember they used to make T-shirts. I got one forever ago at Games Day Canada. It was a horrible, horrible design. It was a black Tshirt, with a black Adeptus Mechanicus logo on it. Not centered, the logo was bigger than the T-shirt so it looked like only half made it on. Since it was a black on black it looked like a really dirty shirt. Some people asked me if it was a dirty shirt, nope! Its a GW shirt!



Again, the issue here becomes a equitable pricepoint that will give you good value in terms of game points vs. cost. Footsloggers would seem to be the best way to do this. Another HUUUUUGE selling point would be if the HQ they include is a unique plastic guy. This would instantly make your vets/collectors buy at least 1 box.

Another thing I think GW is missing out on with their marketing is unique terrain. I personally believe every BattleBox should come with a piece of terrain unique to the army. Why? It gives me a reason to spend that larger chunk of money, as the battleboxes aren't THAT great a deal without (and do I really need more Space Wolves scouts?). Unique pieces in bigger boxes = vets/collectors buy the boxes while still appealing to the new player; otherwise, your vets/collectors aren't going to be buying the battleboxes at all, and you need a good balance between your entrenched hobbyists and your new players.

Very yes on the plastic HQ. Plastic is much easier to work with over pewter, and we want the best possible experience for new players. I mentioned my challenges with my first metal model earlier in this post (I think). So a plastic HQ would be as very good choice.

And you're right about the terrain too. I know the ork battleforce is useless to me. Its got a trukk (good), 40 boyz (good), a warboss (got one already), and 3 nob bikerz (got 10 already, don't need more). As a vet, it doesn't do much for me in the end then. I think if they added in some really cool Orky terrain, I may change my opinion on it. Maybe a hut or something. I remember the Gorka Morka box came with a really awesome plasticard ork fort (see also: necromunda and mordaheim), it could be something simple like that.

And remember, the old boxed sets (heres lookin at you Macragge) had some ruins and cheap jungle, but it gave the set a nice feeling of "here's everything you'd need for a full game" rather than just "here are some models have fun"

[GrenAcid]

@Skragger
+1

@Daemonette666

Mate, drop upgrades, we are not consider them in STARTER box cuz you can change it whatever you like later when you decide composition ect.
For Kaos:
Lord//Sorcerer
10 csm
rhino
5 raptors
obliterator
Im not sure if I made it in 400pt but it dosnt look bad IMO.

[chromedog]

I bought the 3rd ed box. Multipart posable plastic marines with allowed for variation in units.

Marines, terrain and DE bits that went into the bits box (and some were mixed with my eldar, the rest were somehow lost).

I didn't get the 2nd ed or 5th ed boxes (not liking the 'quality' of the minis in either. Despite the difference in years, they were essentially the same kind of marines (static, monoposed, with clip on guns and pack.) in both and I didn't want them.

I went halves with a mate in the 4th ed box - I wanted the rulebook/templates and crashed ship/terrain - he got the miniatures (marines were monoposed statics just like 2nd ed and 5th).

I'm not a fan of plastic monoposed figures. Metals, I can live with. It was a fixture of the gaming scene in the 70s through 80s. Besides, they're metal. For metal miniatures, I'm more forgiving.

[wittdooley]

I'm not a fan of plastic monoposed figures. Metals, I can live with. It was a fixture of the gaming scene in the 70s through 80s. Besides, they're metal. For metal miniatures, I'm more forgiving.

Care to elaborate on the why?

[chromedog]

2nd ed: Plastic clip together monoposed.
3rd ed: Multipart modular troops for BOTH armies.
4th ed: Plastic clip together monoposed (see one step forwards, one back).
5th ed: Plastic clip together monoposed (another step backwards. At first glance, looked 'more detailed' but this opinion changed on closer inspection).

(Yes, some might see 3rd ed as the aberration in the pattern. It was the IMPROVEMENT from my POV.)

[murrburger]

It also prevented anybody new getting in to the game from liking Dark Eldar. They were pretty much fodder that the marines shot at.

Dark Eldar got 20 Warrriors, and I think 4 Splinter Cannons.

Marines got 10 Tacs, and I think a flamer and a missile launcher. Also, a land speeder. (That the Dark Eldar have no way of killing)

[eldargal]

I'd like to see a boxed set with, say, four armies in it as well as starter sets for each army along batallion lines with a rulebook.