What is THE ALFA GreyKnight List!!!

[Lucian Kain]

Essentially I want to see what people Think is the best all commers Grey Knight List at 2000-2500 and what would it look like.....

Purifiers+Razors

Intercepters/Stormravens and NDK

Orbital Strike Gunline

Fecie throwing monkies?

Yes I am indeed lazey,but thats besides the point.Without tailoring to a specific list whats the "A Team" consist of...

[Duncndisorderly]

In my opinion:
HQ
Kaldor Draigo

Castellan Crowe

Elite
Vindicare assassin

Psifle Ven Dread

Troop
10 man Purifier
10 man Purifier

10 man Palladin

Fast
10 man Interceptor

Elite
Land Raider x 2

worth knowing my opinion is flawed but what the heck

[DarkLink]

There is no alpha list. I'm assuming you actually mean alpha, the first letter in the greek alphabet, and not alfa as in alfalfa.

And what is it with people and orbital strikes? They suck. They're very expensive, can't move and shoot, always scatter...

[KingStuart]

For me a 2500 list would have a Librarian and shooty Grandmaster as HQ. Just two troops choices (personally I'd have one of each) then just take a varied selection from the rest of the codex. In particular I would take a Stormraven.

I'm actually in the middle of a grey knights review on my blog (kingstuart40k.blogspot.com) if you wanted some ideas. I'll have a post with a handful of my thoughts on lists up soon.

[Tynskel]

There is no alpha list. I'm assuming you actually mean alpha, the first letter in the greek alphabet, and not alfa as in alfalfa.

And what is it with people and orbital strikes? They suck. They're very expensive, can't move and shoot, always scatter...

they are not expensive, they are 30 points cheaper and they are better than they were before.

they don't take up Hv slot
they can actually target a unit, not terrain
the lance shot just has to 'knick' its target
oh, and the Barrage Bomb gets d3 large blasts!

[Bean]

they are not expensive, they are 30 points cheaper and they are better than they were before.

they don't take up Hv slot
they can actually target a unit, not terrain
the lance shot just has to 'knick' its target
oh, and the Barrage Bomb gets d3 large blasts!

So, what you're saying is that, since they're crap now, they were really crap before?

Or are you actually trying to defend them.

Let me know, 'cause I'd like to get a sense for whether you have any idea what you're talking about or not. =P

[Tynskel]

So, what you're saying is that, since they're crap now, they were really crap before?

Or are you actually trying to defend them.

Let me know, 'cause I'd like to get a sense for whether you have any idea what you're talking about or not. =P

We both already know that you hate me and won't pay attention to anything I have to say, except to just make fun of what I am saying. Which means you like to read everything I say, because you are always rolling on the floor laughing.

I am glad you are my #1 Fan.



For 50 points, they are worth it. I am not saying that you should go and buy 50 of them, because they have diminishing returns, just like everything else in this game. Nor am I saying it is a 'must have'. I am saying that for 50 points, you can make them work quite well.

The fact you can choose what you fire every time is cool. d3 str 6 large blast ordnance is not bad, especially since barrage weapons kick butt against infantry.

[somerandomdude]

Unfortunately, the Orbital Strike is not barrage...

[Bean]

We both already know that you hate me and won't pay attention to anything I have to say, except to just make fun of what I am saying. Which means you like to read everything I say, because you are always rolling on the floor laughing.

I am glad you are my #1 Fan.

For 50 points, they are worth it. I am not saying that you should go and buy 50 of them, because they have diminishing returns, just like everything else in this game. Nor am I saying it is a 'must have'. I am saying that for 50 points, you can make them work quite well.

The fact you can choose what you fire every time is cool. d3 str 6 large blast ordnance is not bad, especially since barrage weapons kick butt against infantry.

I don't hate you, you just have a tendency to make claims which are obviously and demonstrably false. I suspect that there are things of which you have a solid and intelligent intellectual grasp, but our history has shown that this is not a presumption I can make of you by default. I was just checking to see what type of situation we were in, here.



Orbital relays are a poor choice. They can only be taken on Grand Masters and Brother Captains. They're a very expensive upgrade, and they operate in a manner which is extremely contrary to the manner in which these characters want to operate otherwise.

One of the strengths of the Grey Knight army is its ability to put out shots on the move. A BC/GM with an Orbital Relay is either on his own, not moving, and an expensive and easy target for enemy fire (it's not a barrage weapon, so he has to have line of sight and, thus, can't really use it while hiding) or attached to a squad--in which case he prevents it from doing what it should be doing pretty much every time he uses the relay.

Effectively, you're spending a bunch of points on something that, whenever you're using it, you're making something worse (either the HQ by putting him out there on his own or a squad by tying them to a gun that can't move and shoot)--and for very little return since it's so inaccurate.

Don't play Orbital Strike Relays. They're not even close to being worth their exorbitant cost. If you want your GM to shoot effectively, buy him a Psycannon. It's cheaper, better, and basically does the same thing as any unit you might attach him to.

[Bean]

To respond to the OP, there are basically four good ways to play grey knights. They all seem good. One is probably the best, but I'm not sure which it is. Those four ways are:

Purifiers and Crowe

Strike Squads

Paladins and Draigo

Terminators

My guess is that that will prove to basically be an accurate assessment of their hierarchy of effectiveness, too.

In all cases, you're basically looking at one HQ: Crowe or Draigo if necessary, GM or Librarian otherwise, two or three psyrifle dreads, maybe a teleporter dreadknight, maybe a strike squad, and fill the rest of the points with the appropriate troop choice:

340 point, ten man purifier squads with four psycannons, five halberds, and a master-crafted hammer in a rhino

315 point, five man paladin squad with two psycannons, two swords, two halberds, and a hammer (split up so that everyone is unique, of course)

280/295 point Strike Squad with ten guys, two psycannons, a rhino and maybe a master crafted hammer

225 five terminators with a psycannon and just about any mix of free close combat weapons (probably 3 halberds, one sword and one hammer).

All of those will produce good lists. The only real question is which troop choice is the best for the points. Purifiers are definitely the strongest, but also quite expensive (and Crowe is unspectacular). Paladins are very strong, but also expensive and Draigo (though a beast) is also very pricy, which makes them a particularly small army. Strike Squads are probably better than terminators, but more expensive after you buy them the rhino (which is worth it).

It may well prove that a standard librarian or GM with one elite purifier squad, the support mentioned above, and some combination of terminators and strike squads will prove optimal.

[Auretious Taak]

Who needs 2k pts when you can do it at 1500pts against higher up armies and still win on epicness:

HQ 1: Inquisitor Coteaz w/Bolt Pistol, Master Crafted Nemesis daemon hammer, Artificer Armour, Frag/Krak/Psyk-out Grenades, Psyber-eagle - 100pts

Elites 1: 5 Purifiers w/Storm Bolter+Nemesis Force sword+Frag/Krak/Psyk-out Grenades+Power Armour; Justicar w/Storm Bolter+Nemesis Daemon Hammer - 125pts
Elites 2: 5 Purifiers w/Storm Bolter+Nemesis Force sword+Frag/Krak/Psyk-out Grenades+Power Armour; Justicar w/Storm Bolter+Nemesis Daemon Hammer - 125pts
Elites 3: 5 Purifiers w/Storm Bolter+Nemesis Force sword+Frag/Krak/Psyk-out Grenades+Power Armour; Justicar w/Storm Bolter+Nemesis Daemon Hammer - 125pts

Troops 1: 12 Acolytes w/Laspistol+CCW+Flak Armour - 48pts
Troops 2: 12 Acolytes w/Laspistol+CCW+Flak Armour - 48pts
Troops 3: 12 Acolytes w/Laspistol+CCW+Flak Armour - 48pts
Troops 4: 12 Acolytes w/Laspistol+CCW+Flak Armour - 48pts
Troops 5: 12 Acolytes w/Laspistol+CCW+Flak Armour - 48pts
Troops 6: 12 Acolytes w/Laspistol+CCW+Flak Armour - 48pts

Fast Attack 1: 5 Grey Knight Interceptors w/Storm Bolter+Nemesis Force sword+Frag/Krak/Psyk-out Grenades+Power Armour+Personnal Teleporter; Justicar w/Storm Bolter+Nemesis daemon Hammer - 140pts
Fast Attack 2: 5 Grey Knight Interceptors w/Storm Bolter+Nemesis Force sword+Frag/Krak/Psyk-out Grenades+Power Armour+Personnal Teleporter; Justicar w/Storm Bolter+Nemesis daemon Hammer - 140pts
Fast Attack 3: 5 Grey Knight Interceptors w/Storm Bolter+Nemesis Force sword+Frag/Krak/Psyk-out Grenades+Power Armour+Personnal Teleporter; Justicar w/Storm Bolter+Nemesis daemon Hammer - 140pts

Heavy Support 1: 5 Purgators - w/Frag/Krak/Psyk-out Grenades, Power Armour, Justicar w/Nemesis Daemon Hammer+Storm Bolter; 4 Grey Knights w/Incinerator - 105pts
Heavy Support 2: 5 Purgators - w/Frag/Krak/Psyk-out Grenades, Power Armour, Justicar w/Nemesis Daemon Hammer+Storm Bolter; 4 Grey Knights w/Incinerator - 105pts
Heavy Support 3: 5 Purgators - w/Frag/Krak/Psyk-out Grenades, Power Armour, Justicar w/Nemesis Daemon Hammer+Storm Bolter; 4 Grey Knights w/Incinerator - 105pts

Total = 1,498 points
Models = 118
Kill Points = 16
Anti-Tank Abilities - 16 Nemesis Daemon Hammers

[Tynskel]

you forgot Techmarines. which are good support characters for heavy weapons squads, like inquisitorial henchmen.

Park yourself in a chimera, with others in fire support position, and blast stuff from outer space.

Also, Inquisitor Karamazov has one, which he has Relentless.

[Bean]

A good point on the techmarines--it's certainly a more worthwhile buy, there, though I still think there are a lot of better ways to spend 140 points.

Karamazof gets one, and he is relentless, but relentless doesn't matter--the Brother Captain and Grand Master are relentless, too. No-one can fire an orbital relay after moving, relentless or not.

[Tynskel]

you are right about that.

Yeah, you could spend 140 points differently, but in this case, if you are using the Techmarine just as a support character, might as well slap the weapon on him.

Now that I think about it, for cheap Inquisitor army (well, realtively cheap kazmarov n' cortez), you can have squads of cheap guys (warriors, 4 points each) and drop the Orbital strike on them. Won't necessarily win you games, but it would be fun!

[Bean]

Yes, if you happened to have a techmarine in your army anyway, 50 points for an orbital relay wouldn't be the worst 50 points of filler available.

That said, if you haven't filled your heavy support slots (and you're actually looking to turn out a competitive army) you shouldn't be spending points on a techmarine with orbital relay--you should be buy another psy-rifle-dread instead.

[Tynskel]

Yes, if you happened to have a techmarine in your army anyway, 50 points for an orbital relay wouldn't be the worst 50 points of filler available.

That said, if you haven't filled your heavy support slots (and you're actually looking to turn out a competitive army) you shouldn't be spending points on a techmarine with orbital relay--you should be buy another psy-rifle-dread instead.

Well, yeah. The whole idea that the Orbital Strike is no longer Hv Support choice is to allow you to take fill out your hv support, AND take an orbital strike.

[Bean]

Alright, another comparison then: 140 points is five purifiers with two psycannons. They're also elites.

If you're down to spending 140 points on an elites slot, I'd take the purifiers, too, pretty much every time.

[Tynskel]

Alright, another comparison then: 140 points is five purifiers with two psycannons. They're also elites.

If you're down to spending 140 points on an elites slot, I'd take the purifiers, too, pretty much every time.

That's a personal preference choice. There are many ways to fit things into a list. Perhaps you already have a squad of purifiers and you do not want a second one? Perhaps you are going with a theme and do not want any purifiers?

The point is that a Techmarine with Orbital Strike relay is not a bad choice, if you are planning on using him with a 'stationary' squad, anyhow.

The orbital strike on a HQ is a little hairy, however, all it takes is one good hit with an orbital strike to make up the 50 points. Like, Shazzam, oh, I am sorry, did I blow up your land raider with my Str 10 AP1 Lance?

Or, see that 50 man blob squad? ::barrage bomb:: bye bye 50 man blob squad!

[Lucian Kain]

Thanks for the feedback

So diversity over copy/paste lists plus Rifle Dreads seem to be the best configuration on the whole.It just seems harder to get synergy between units when your armys approach is conflicted between units fighting styles.

I know the Orbital Strike Relay is very unreliable as far as accuracy is concerned but has anyone used it against a clusterd parking lot with good results?

[Bean]

That's a personal preference choice. There are many ways to fit things into a list. Perhaps you already have a squad of purifiers and you do not want a second one? Perhaps you are going with a theme and do not want any purifiers?

The point is that a Techmarine with Orbital Strike relay is not a bad choice, if you are planning on using him with a 'stationary' squad, anyhow.

The orbital strike on a HQ is a little hairy, however, all it takes is one good hit with an orbital strike to make up the 50 points. Like, Shazzam, oh, I am sorry, did I blow up your land raider with my Str 10 AP1 Lance?

Or, see that 50 man blob squad? ::barrage bomb:: bye bye 50 man blob squad!

Sure, but the same is true for a psycannon--it's probably more likely to kill that land raider than a 10/1 lance, and it pitches in with what the rest of the squad is doing better.

I'll grant that the techmarine with orbital relay is not a terrible choice, but on a GM or BC, the Psycannon is very straightforwardly better, and taking both would basically be dumb.

[plawolf]

My biggest problem with the techmarine is that he only has 1 wound, and he is costing over 100pts to be worth taking at all. I have serious issue with spending that many points on a single wound independent character.

[DarkLink]

That's a big part of the reason I dislike the orbital bombardment. It's very expensive, extremely inaccurate, and much less reliable than some other things you can get for a similar cost, and on top of that it's on a single dude who has to sit still just to use it. Being able to hide him in a squad isn't great consolation.

[Tynskel]

That's a big part of the reason I dislike the orbital bombardment. It's very expensive, extremely inaccurate, and much less reliable than some other things you can get for a similar cost, and on top of that it's on a single dude who has to sit still just to use it. Being able to hide him in a squad isn't great consolation.

But we just went over that it is 30 points cheaper, more accurate than before, and can switch between uses, oh, and doesn't take up a Hv slot.


If you are alredy taking a tech marine, why not take the orbital strike?

[lantzkev]

more importantly it's got unlimited range so you can sit him the most remote from anything.

[DarkLink]

Well, the only reason I'd take a techmarine was if I needed rad/psy grenades but had already filled my hq slots. And even then, I would probably buy something else that has more utility, like 3 melta henchmen in a razorback with psybolt ammo.



Anyways, on the topic of top lists I'll post one that I've been playing around with the last few weeks. The details change a little bit, but the general theme is the same. I've played SWs, BA and DE with this list and won all my games. The HQs have changed a bit, I've tried it with and without coteaz, and with a GM instead of a Librarian, and the general idea remains the same. Seize the midfield with the Grey Knights, Terminators march up the middle drawing tons of fire, while the Psyrifle dreads and psycannons shoot stuff down and the Acolytes run around being annoying.

Coteaz
Librarian
10 GK Terminators, 2 Psycannons
2x 10 GKSS, 2 Psycannons, Daemonhammer, Psybolts, Rhino
3x 4 Acolytes, 3 Meltaguns, Razorback, Psybolts
3x Psyrifle Dreads

It's biggest weakness is that it is a bit tough to get onto the opponent's objective in Capture and Control, but it puts out enough firepower and has enough bodies, vehicles and CC punch that it can pin down the opponent in their deployment zone, giving you a big advantage in seize ground games. It can suppress vehicles and kill them very well, so compared to most Marine MSU armies it does very well in killpoints. It just slaughters DE because all of your units can mow down their vehicles.

I have to see how it does against Guard, which will be an interesting game. The Terminators can handle most any Marine hammer units (just make sure to melta any THSS Termies out of their land raiders and shoot the crap out of them) and can de-mech Marine armies very well. The Terminators can march through entire armies of orks and nidz (and the few nid units that can really hurt the terminators, such as Warriors, are psyrifle dread bait). Against Eldar I would be able to de-mech them and kill the squads inside without suffering much return fire, runes of warding or not. Footdar get shot to death from halfway across the board.

Anyways, I think I prefer something with Rad/Psy grenades over the Librarian. I wouldn't mind playing around with the points to get a couple skulls in there, as well.